Is it harder to get good residencies if you're in an Osteopathic Med School?

[2ill2imitate]

I'm in a dilemma. Im actually in a 7-Year BS/DO program at NYIT which is affiliated with NYCOM (New York College of Osteopathic Medicine). I am entering my third and final undergraduate year, having just completed the MCATs. I took them in my second year and had studied rigorously for about 4 monthes prior. I got a 29Q, and my GPA is a 3.78, which I don't know if is good enough to get into allopathic medical schools. I like the whole Osteopathic approach to medicine, and the OMM is really interesting. The only thing is, I'm concerned that when it comes time to apply to competitive residencies, will it be harder for me to get one as a DO?

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[bkpa2med]

To make a long story short, no! There are thousands of threads covering this. Check them out.

 

[Artful Dodger]

No, I have always heard that if your STEP scores are good (MD or DO), then you can get into any residency you wish. I think if you want to go into the PhD route, then you might want to consider MD. Otherwise, you'll be fine with a DO for any residency.

 

[146233]

This is a question better suited for the Pre-Osteo forum. Moved.

 

[madscientist50]

We have a new professor here at Nova that did her IM residency at Harvard, with only COMLEX scores. She graduated from OSU-COM. So don't worry about the letters after your name for residency purposes. If you think having a D.O. is what YOU want then do it, if not then DO NOT. Get good grades, kick ass on the COMLEX, and impress the hell out of people on rotations, and you will get whatever residency you want.

Good luck!

 

[Kappy1]

I'm in a dilemma. Im actually in a 7-Year BS/DO program at NYIT which is affiliated with NYCOM (New York College of Osteopathic Medicine). I am entering my third and final undergraduate year, having just completed the MCATs. I took them in my second year and had studied rigorously for about 4 monthes prior. I got a 29Q, and my GPA is a 3.78, which I don't know if is good enough to get into allopathic medical schools. I like the whole Osteopathic approach to medicine, and the OMM is really interesting. The only thing is, I'm concerned that when it comes time to apply to competitive residencies, will it be harder for me to get one as a DO?

Being a DO only provides you with more residency opportunities, because you have the allopathic and osteopathic match. If you look at NYCOM's match list for 2007 you have students matching into some of the most prestigious programs in the country such as Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, NYU, John Hopkins, etc... If you work hard you will be able to get any residency you want.

 

[Sam212]

I'm in a dilemma. Im actually in a 7-Year BS/DO program at NYIT which is affiliated with NYCOM (New York College of Osteopathic Medicine). I am entering my third and final undergraduate year, having just completed the MCATs. I took them in my second year and had studied rigorously for about 4 monthes prior. I got a 29Q, and my GPA is a 3.78, which I don't know if is good enough to get into allopathic medical schools. I like the whole Osteopathic approach to medicine, and the OMM is really interesting. The only thing is, I'm concerned that when it comes time to apply to competitive residencies, will it be harder for me to get one as a DO?

I know I am going to get some heat for this, but if you are looking to get into even a mildly competitive residency, consider going to an allopathic school. It will make your life much easier than coming out of an osteopathic school. You can match into any residency coming out as a DO but it will be a lot harder. If you have some time on your hand, try and find how many DOs matched into allopathic ortho programs last year or opthalmology for that matter. I promise you that the number won't be in double digits combined for both. I have nothing against DO schools and I don't think any less of DO physcians than MDs but you have to be realistic here. And realisticly, you will have a lot easier route matching into competitive residencies as an MD than a DO.

p.s I know someone will pointout here how DOs have their own set of residencies, I invite you to do some research and find the exact number of spots and compare them to available allopathic residency spots for the same specialty.

 

[DocBR]

I know I am going to get some heat for this, but if you are looking to get into even a mildly competitive residency, consider going to an allopathic school. It will make your life much easier than coming out of an osteopathic school. You can match into any residency coming out as a DO but it will be a lot harder. If you have some time on your hand, try and find how many DOs matched into allopathic ortho programs last year or opthalmology for that matter. I promise you that the number won't be in double digits combined for both. I have nothing against DO schools and I don't think any less of DO physcians than MDs but you have to be realistic here. And realisticly, you will have a lot easier route matching into competitive residencies as an MD than a DO.

p.s I know someone will pointout here how DOs have their own set of residencies, I invite you to do some research and find the exact number of spots and compare them to available allopathic residency spots for the same specialty.

I invite you to do the same. Iserson's Getting into a Residency has this data, and for every 10 spots for an MD residency, there is ususally 1 spot for a DO. When you consider the number of DO residents to MD residents, that number is quite fitting. Add in the possibility of an allopathic match and DOs have a number advantage in landing many competitive residencies. Just to take your own example of Orthopedic surgery, Iserson's states there are 606 allo spots available in a year, and 241 osteo funded spots per year. that is over 29% coverage for a physician force that is less than 10%, if you never factor in allo spots that are available to DOs.


Note: Much thanks to Sarikate for the book!

 

[Sarikate]

Note: Much thanks to Sarikate for the book!

LOL, I knew you'd put it to good use!

 

[Sam212]

I invite you to do the same. Iserson's Getting into a Residency has this data, and for every 10 spots for an MD residency, there is ususally 1 spot for a DO. When you consider the number of DO residents to MD residents, that number is quite fitting. Add in the possibility of an allopathic match and DOs have a number advantage in landing many competitive residencies. Just to take your own example of Orthopedic surgery, Iserson's states there are 606 allo spots available in a year, and 241 osteo funded spots per year. that is over 29% coverage for a physician force that is less than 10%, if you never factor in allo spots that are available to DOs.


Note: Much thanks to Sarikate for the book!

My friend, those 241 slots are total, not per year, whereas the 606 allo spots are available every year. So you have to divide 241 by 5 since ortho is five years and that will amount to approximately 48 spots per year, very few considering the number of graduates (and the number is increasing). According to the book that you have quoted, there are about 1000 DO residency spots available every year and 3000 DO graduates yearly. You and I both know that there are very few spots available and the competition is stiff for them. AOA is not doing an adequate job since they are responsible for assuring that every graduate has a spot. Please do not mislead others, it is a fact that you will have it much easier as an MD if you want to match in to competitive residencies.

 

[DocBR]

My friend, those 241 slots are total, not per year, whereas the 606 allo spots are available every year. So you have to divide 241 by 5 since ortho is five years and that will amount to approximately 48 spots per year, very few considering the number of graduates (and the number is increasing). According to the book that you have quoted, there are about 1000 DO residency spots available every year and 3000 DO graduates yearly. You and I both know that there are very few spots available and the competition is stiff for them. AOA is not doing an adequate job since they are responsible for assuring that every graduate has a spot. Please do not mislead others, it is a fact that you will have it much easier as an MD if you want to match in to competitive residencies.

Here are the numbers straight from the book:

All entry level allo spots: 606 (472 of which are PGY-1)
All Funded D.O. spots: 241

241/(606 + 241) = 29%

Even if I am somehow interpreting this incorrectly, and you are right (which may be the case)- then with 48 available spots per year for DOs compared to the 606 for allos you are at a 1:9 ratio - which is still representative of the DO:MD population. All this, ignoring the fact that DOs do place into allo residencies. This also ignores the fact that over half of DO grads go directly into a primary care specialty which would narrow the competition significantly.

I do agree with you that the rising number of DO grads compared to the growth of AOA residencies is unbalanced, but keep in mind of the 3,173 DO graduates from 2007, only 1,575 grads even went through the osteopathic match, the rest were in the allo match or the military match.


So, all in all, I wouldn't say its quiet the bleak picture you have painted.

 

[silas2642]

I'm in a dilemma. Im actually in a 7-Year BS/DO program at NYIT which is affiliated with NYCOM (New York College of Osteopathic Medicine). I am entering my third and final undergraduate year, having just completed the MCATs. I took them in my second year and had studied rigorously for about 4 monthes prior. I got a 29Q, and my GPA is a 3.78, which I don't know if is good enough to get into allopathic medical schools. I like the whole Osteopathic approach to medicine, and the OMM is really interesting. The only thing is, I'm concerned that when it comes time to apply to competitive residencies, will it be harder for me to get one as a DO?

I think that if you are going to look into going into the most competitive specialties at the most prestigious institutions, then yes, having the initials of DO after your name may be a hindrance. There are still some programs out there that discriminate against osteopaths. However, I wouldn't worry too much about this. As long as you do well in school; perform well on your boards, do fairly well in your pre-clinical years, and rock your clinicals, you should be able to match into whatever specialty you want to.

Re: NYCOM, the only thing I would be concerned about with that school is that there is a rumor that they are making lectures mandatory-- YIKES!!!😀

 

[Meatwad]

No, I have always heard that if your STEP scores are good (MD or DO), then you can get into any residency you wish. I think if you want to go into the PhD route, then you might want to consider MD. Otherwise, you'll be fine with a DO for any residency.

Doing a PhD first, then medical school, is a very bad idea. It takes many, many years, and doesn't really make you a stronger applicant. Ask QuofQuimica.

 

[Taty]

I'm in a dilemma. Im actually in a 7-Year BS/DO program at NYIT which is affiliated with NYCOM (New York College of Osteopathic Medicine). I am entering my third and final undergraduate year, having just completed the MCATs. I took them in my second year and had studied rigorously for about 4 monthes prior. I got a 29Q, and my GPA is a 3.78, which I don't know if is good enough to get into allopathic medical schools. I like the whole Osteopathic approach to medicine, and the OMM is really interesting. The only thing is, I'm concerned that when it comes time to apply to competitive residencies, will it be harder for me to get one as a DO?

I think that it is hard to get a good residency regardless of MD/DO thing. I think you just have to work hard to get what u want. I cannot judge though I am just entering DO student...

 

[Sam212]

Here are the numbers straight from the book:

All entry level allo spots: 606 (472 of which are PGY-1)
All Funded D.O. spots: 241

241/(606 + 241) = 29%

Even if I am somehow interpreting this incorrectly, and you are right (which may be the case)- then with 48 available spots per year for DOs compared to the 606 for allos you are at a 1:9 ratio - which is still representative of the DO:MD population. All this, ignoring the fact that DOs do place into allo residencies. This also ignores the fact that over half of DO grads go directly into a primary care specialty which would narrow the competition significantly.

I do agree with you that the rising number of DO grads compared to the growth of AOA residencies is unbalanced, but keep in mind of the 3,173 DO graduates from 2007, only 1,575 grads even went through the osteopathic match, the rest were in the allo match or the military match.


So, all in all, I wouldn't say its quiet the bleak picture you have painted.

I agree that DOs should have no problem obtaining a residency spot, however, matching into competitive residencies is much harder for them than their MD counterparts. I am no expert on this matter but from what I have heard a score of 230+ in USMLE is good enough for competitive fields. This is only true for MDs though as DO usually have to score close to 250 to have a realistic shot. Read some of the residency forums, specifically by DO students. I might have exaggerated a bit but it is an issue one must consider before deciding between MD/DO schools

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Here are the numbers straight from the book:

All entry level allo spots: 606 (472 of which are PGY-1)
All Funded D.O. spots: 241

241/(606 + 241) = 29%

Even if I am somehow interpreting this incorrectly, and you are right (which may be the case)- then with 48 available spots per year for DOs compared to the 606 for allos you are at a 1:9 ratio - which is still representative of the DO:MD population. All this, ignoring the fact that DOs do place into allo residencies. This also ignores the fact that over half of DO grads go directly into a primary care specialty which would narrow the competition significantly.

I do agree with you that the rising number of DO grads compared to the growth of AOA residencies is unbalanced, but keep in mind of the 3,173 DO graduates from 2007, only 1,575 grads even went through the osteopathic match, the rest were in the allo match or the military match.


So, all in all, I wouldn't say its quiet the bleak picture you have painted.

I really dont want to screw up your calculations, but an ortho program would be 4 years in length, one year would be internship which is separate, but a total of 5 years. So the ortho funded spots should be divided by 4 not five.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Also I want to add that most DO schools/curriculum are base to created more generalist- peds/im/fm/em/maybe gen surg. Keeping up with the ratio of ortho to students might be last on the AOAs list. Maybe the LCME schools should focus on putting their grads in the the fields where the greatest need is primary care.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Doing a PhD first, then medical school, is a very bad idea. It takes many, many years, and doesn't really make you a stronger applicant. Ask QuofQuimica.

True. I meant the MD/PhD route though.

 

[Vix206]

Also I want to add that most DO schools/curriculum are base to created more generalist- peds/im/fm/em/maybe gen surg. Keeping up with the ratio of ortho to students might be last on the AOAs list. Maybe the LCME schools should focus on putting their grads in the the fields where the greatest need is primary care.

where's your source for that tidbit? to my knowledge, the curriculum is almost exactly the same, except for the addition of OMM.

 

[DocBR]

where's your source for that tidbit? to my knowledge, the curriculum is almost exactly the same, except for the addition of OMM.

Most schools will flat out tell you that is their mission. A lot of schools also have extra family practice hours integrated into the curriculum. For instance, and AZCOM we lose 4 weeks of surgical rotations so that we can have an extra 4 weeks of FM (for a total of 12) in the first year.

 

[Meatwad]

True. I meant the MD/PhD route though.

Gotcha. They actually have DO/PhD as well.

 

[2ill2imitate]

Thanks guys, you have been preety helpful, but with my 29Q and 3.78, do I have a shot at getting into say UMDNJ or any other allopathic medical schools in the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania area?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Most schools will flat out tell you that is their mission. A lot of schools also have extra family practice hours integrated into the curriculum. For instance, and AZCOM we lose 4 weeks of surgical rotations so that we can have an extra 4 weeks of FM (for a total of 12) in the first year.

What a waste of time......

 

[DocBR]

What a waste of time......

Yep. I love most things I have heard about AZCOM's curriculum, but I'd much rather have a regular 8 week surgical rotation without dipping into elective hours.

 

[Vizsla]

Thanks guys, you have been preety helpful, but with my 29Q and 3.78, do I have a shot at getting into say UMDNJ or any other allopathic medical schools in the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania area?

definitely...apply to both and see where you get in. then u can decide which is better fit for you, allo or osteo. as for residencies, the only problems ive heard of DOs having in the matching process is into very competitive allo specialties (derm, plastics, radonc, ent, optho, ortho, neurosurg, uro) that MDs also have trouble matching in to. also some schools are just not DO friendly. good luck

 

[DrWBD]

I'm in a dilemma. Im actually in a 7-Year BS/DO program at NYIT which is affiliated with NYCOM (New York College of Osteopathic Medicine). I am entering my third and final undergraduate year, having just completed the MCATs. I took them in my second year and had studied rigorously for about 4 monthes prior. I got a 29Q, and my GPA is a 3.78, which I don't know if is good enough to get into allopathic medical schools. I like the whole Osteopathic approach to medicine, and the OMM is really interesting. The only thing is, I'm concerned that when it comes time to apply to competitive residencies, will it be harder for me to get one as a DO?

Yes, it will be more difficult to get a competitive ACGME residency position as a DO. Not impossible, but definitely more difficult.

-wanna_be_do (NYCOM Class of 2003)

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Yes, it will be more difficult to get a competitive ACGME residency position as a DO. Not impossible, but definitely more difficult.

-wanna_be_do (NYCOM Class of 2003)

Agree w/this. Anyone who tells you otherwise really doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[Dr JPH]

Agree w/this. Anyone who tells you otherwise really doesn't know what they are talking about.

Agree as well

 

[MossPoh]

If I were running your little 7 year program, I'd do everything in my power to make sure you interact with the medical school to some degree, but that is another tangent. An acceptance in hand is nice, if it is near family even nicer,but if you are getting eaten away with curiosity about MD then apply. I think people are full of crap if they say it is equal or easier to get certain specialities as a DO. Possible? Of course... I kind of feel that the amount of spots offered per student equal out, if not less. "But MossPoh, as a DO you can do BOTH allopathic and osteopathic". In reality, you will be discriminated against to some degree in certain specialities with allopathic; effectively eliminating those spots. It isn't some defined off limits residency and is somewhat fluid, but you will be cut much less slack as a DO. If the drive is there, and you are cool/superstar rotations at a potential program then you will be fine probably. I wouldn't worry about that for ohhhhhhhh 2 to 3 more years though. Got to get through the basics first.