Is it morally wrong for a doctor to smoke cigarettes?

[ssquared]

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I love how our society is almost accepting of obesity, yet smoking is perceived as an extremely disgusting, unhealthy habit.

You have no problem with lecturing the smoker, but when it comes to the fatso in McDonalds stuffing cheeseburgers down his throat, you don't care. Both are destroying their bodies, yet one is more socially acceptable than the other.

Are you saying that you don't judge the guy eating cheeseburgers?

I'm not accusing you of anything, but I would be willing to bet that most people who were not overweight would certainly think the obese guy eating Mickey-D's is subscribing to "an extremely disgusting, unhealthy habit."

Then again, a lot of it has to do with rich vs. poor. Generally, rich people (this really fits more with women than men) are significantly thinner than their poor counterparts. But poor people smoke more often than the rich. There ya go, social injustice and its effects on health seen at its best (or worst, really).

 

[dontwakeme]

I just believe that your average do-gooder is more likely to scold the smoker than the compulsive eater. It's just the way our society has raised us. Food is not inherently bad, but smoking is, despite the fact that both can kill you.

 

[ssquared]

I just believe that your average do-gooder is more likely to scold the smoker than the compulsive eater. It's just the way our society has raised us. Food is not inherently bad, but smoking is, despite the fact that both can kill you.

Oh, I agree with you completely. I absolutely hate smoking. But I don't think I would ever be presumptuous enough to scold a completely stranger about smoking/eating/whatever. If I was a doctor, I would have no problem telling people that they need to put the cancer sticks in the trash alongside the burgers.

 

[Tired]

Wow that was really mean. I love him, and I want him to live a long and healthy life with me. Smoking will likely shorten that life, and it will definitely impair his ability to run, cycle, swim, and hike- his favorite activities. He doesn't miss cigs, and I'm happy that I could do this one small thing for him. If that makes me lame, fine. I may be lame, but at least I'm not a jerk. Sheesh!

No, see my point was that you are a jerk (although I was trying to couch it in terms of you being "lame", but jerk will work just as well here).

Obviously you are very impressed with yourself over your degree of "compassion" and "caring" for your friend. You have no problem instructing him on how to live his life, and are more than willing to substitute your judgement for his when it comes to matters involving his own life. In addition, after using guilt and scare-tactics to manipulate him into doing what you want, you gleefully come to an internet bulletin board to show off how wonderful you are.

See, just because you are able to achieve a good result (someone quitting smoking), your manner and methods are clearly self-righteous and self-interested, and therefore lack moral force.

I know you expected a lot of hearty kudos for your little story (and evidently you did get a few), but I am frankly both unimpressed and nauseated.

 

[chowchilla]

What cigarette do you smoke doctor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMzjJjuxQI

 

[Stray]

No it isn't morally wrong for doctors to smoke.. It is their body, they can do whatever they want to it.

I personally don't smoke. If I did though, and my doctor told me not to, and then I found out that they smoke, they wouldn't be my doctor anymore. I can't stand hypocrites. You can smoke if you want, but you damn well shouldn't be telling anyone else not to if you do.

 

[Tired]

I personally don't smoke. If I did though, and my doctor told me not to, and then I found out that they smoke, they wouldn't be my doctor anymore. I can't stand hypocrites. You can smoke if you want, but you damn well shouldn't be telling anyone else not to if you do.

It fascinates me how many folks here have this unstated idea that physicians are in some kind of position of moral or ethical authority over their patients. You would call a physician a hypocrite if he recommended you quit smoking, even though he hasn't? How is it hypocritical to state a fact like, "Smoking will most likely result in your premature death." Isn't it a doctor's job to give people medical information, regardless of their personal situation?

Doctor: "You need to exercise more."

Patient: "How many miles a day do you run?"

Doctor: "I don't have time to run, I'm a doctor."

Patient: "Well screw you then, I'm finding another physician, you damn hypocrite."

 

[FemalesCANTDriv]

whatttt smoking is soooo not cool.
I am all for cool, just not cool that you chose to engage in that harms me in any way. Also, not cool for the innocent kids that have to inhale bc they have parents that think smoking is more about their "rights" than the truth. Selfish if you ask me. I have personal evidence (so 2nd hand smoke), the parent I lived with smoked every day in the house (we are talking chain smoker), I had terrible breathing problems as a child, on an inhaler, two bouts with pneumonia, and I was a gymnast which made endurance training that much more difficult. Even the doctor spoke with the mentioned parent, but to no avail. When I finally moved out at 18 and was no longer exposed my breathing problems cleared up. Coincidence? I think not.
Also, I seen the effects smoking has on that person (1st hand). One of my closest grandparents had small cell lung, and was kept at home with the "help" of hospice. Long story short, as a nursing student I stayed for a few weeks and helped as much I could until she passed.

That explains it all

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Is it morally wrong for a doctor to tell a patient to sleep 8 hours a day when they themselves don't sleep for that long? Or say that saturated fats are bad but grill cheeseburgers for their kids on the weekends? People their just human you listen to a doctor's advise because they are trained to know many things about the body. Humans are hypocritical just because they don't follow their advise dosen't mean that you shouldn't. The personal life of the doctor is none of the patients business. What's the next topic going to be is it morally right for a person to continue being a doctor when they have commited malpractice?

 

[blackrsx]

That explains it all

 

[Funky]

It fascinates me how many folks here have this unstated idea that physicians are in some kind of position of moral or ethical authority over their patients. You would call a physician a hypocrite if he recommended you quit smoking, even though he hasn't? How is it hypocritical to state a fact like, "Smoking will most likely result in your premature death." Isn't it a doctor's job to give people medical information, regardless of their personal situation?

Doctor: "You need to exercise more."

Patient: "How many miles a day do you run?"

Doctor: "I don't have time to run, I'm a doctor."

Patient: "Well screw you then, I'm finding another physician, you damn hypocrite."

this is an interesting point. Some implied characteristics of the job will always stay the same.
Doctors being stereotyped as moral beings isn't as bad as lawyers stereotyped as dirtbags IMO. 😀

 

[dantt]

I think that this is completly morally wrong, and Doctors should reconsider if they want to smoke or not. It is a choice a choice that Doctors should make for morals, and their patients. How can a doctor who smokes 2 packs a day and smells like an ash tray tell one of his patients who is suffering from severe lung cancer to stop smoking??? huh huh, the patient is gonna hear what the doctor tells him and then completly forget it later because he knows that the Doctor is a complete hippocrite. So the patient lets say continues smoking and dies in the end due to a Doctor that could have saved him by not smoking but instead chose to smoke and influence a patient in a way that lead him to his death!!! Just my 2 centz...

I would tell the patient suffering from severe lung cancer to smoke all he wants and enjoy life.👍

 

[Stray]

It fascinates me how many folks here have this unstated idea that physicians are in some kind of position of moral or ethical authority over their patients. You would call a physician a hypocrite if he recommended you quit smoking, even though he hasn't? How is it hypocritical to state a fact like, "Smoking will most likely result in your premature death." Isn't it a doctor's job to give people medical information, regardless of their personal situation?

Doctor: "You need to exercise more."

Patient: "How many miles a day do you run?"

Doctor: "I don't have time to run, I'm a doctor."

Patient: "Well screw you then, I'm finding another physician, you damn hypocrite."

I should have been more clear... hypocrites in general really piss me off. I don't care if you are a doctor or a garbage man, you have no business telling someone not to do something that you do yourself. One of my former bosses used to tell me to never start smoking (she was a smoker), it drove me up the wall. I don't drink either. It always pissed me off though when I was younger and older people (who drink) told me not to drink. Like I said before, it is your right to do whatever you want to your body, but don't be a hypocrite.

 

[gary5]

It's not a moral issue. He's just an idiot. A doctor does not have an obligation to his patients to take care of his own health. I know a med student who smokes, but there aren't many these days, maybe 2 or 3 per class of 100. A generation ago, probably 25%+ of doctors smoked.

By the way, I had a dentist who once showed me his teeth - I wasn't impressed.

 

[Tired]

I should have been more clear... hypocrites in general really piss me off. I don't care if you are a doctor or a garbage man, you have no business telling someone not to do something that you do yourself. One of my former bosses used to tell me to never start smoking (she was a smoker), it drove me up the wall. I don't drink either. It always pissed me off though when I was younger and older people (who drink) told me not to drink. Like I said before, it is your right to do whatever you want to your body, but don't be a hypocrite.

I think the problem I'm having with your argument is that, in order to be a "hypocrite", you have profess to have feelings or virtues that you don't actually have. For example, a minister calling fidelity a virtue while simultaneously sleeping with a male prostitute would be, to most people, a hypocrite. But he is a hypocrite because he has assigned moral worth to a characteristic that he himself does not actually possess.

Your argument makes sense, but only if you accept the proposition that the physician is calling smoking a "vice" and not smoking a "virtue". There has to be a moral or immoral designation to the action under discussion.

Admittedly, I am probably biased, seeing as how I'm a former pack-a-day smoker. But in my mind, smoking is a simple habit, neither moral nor immoral. A physician who recommends quitting smoking is simply relaying medical information, and it has no bearing on the moral worth of the individual (doctor or patient). Thus from my perspective, a physician who smokes but tells his patients to quit isn't a hypocrite, he's just advising his patients on the consequences of their actions. It is equivalent to recommending wearing shoes to prevent hurting the bottom of your feet; it's good advice, but a person who doesn't follow it isn't necessarily committing an immoral action.

 

[FemalesCANTDriv]

black, you are the man! Where do you find these things??? Houston Imports I'm guessing??? 👍

 

[lynn623la]

But there are so many reasons why some people can't choose their weight... Thyroid problems, steroid treatments for certain immune disorders or arthritis, crappy genetics... But, smoking (actually, in my friend's case, starting to smoke) is fully within a person's power to choose. So, I don't think that obesity is the best comparison.

Oh come on. That is what people like to say so they can eat that cheeseburger. It is our culture in America that emphasizes the quick food laden with fat. It is a choice just like smoking, different forms of addiction.

 

[Koch]

It's morally wrong for anyone to smoke cigarettes. Buying cigarettes supports the tobaco company, the tobacco company is evil, hence buying cigarettes is evil.

 

[vmc303]

What a ridiculous question. Of course not.

 

[vmc303]

It's morally wrong for anyone to smoke cigarettes. Buying cigarettes supports the tobaco company, the tobacco company is evil, hence buying cigarettes is evil.

You're starting from some rock-solid premises there, boy.

 

[Noeljan]

That explains it all

wow you are REALLY cool. You don't even make sense. How does my being a nursing student when caring for my dying grandmother have anything to do with me not liking smoking? What a freak. What compassion you have.
BTW i also am finishing up grad school top of my class and entering med school in the fall so you can shove it. Also, I know plenty of nurses who smoke too and it makes no difference. Doctor, nurse, police officer, Stay at home mom, I don't like smoking for any of them.

 

[Haemulon]

Oh come on. That is what people like to say so they can eat that cheeseburger. It is our culture in America that emphasizes the quick food laden with fat. It is a choice just like smoking, different forms of addiction.

Eating crappy fast food in overabundance is a choice, true enough. But this is not the same thing as being obese. Being obese is not always a choice, since it can have medical causes independent of one's dietary habits.

 

[Funky]

Eating crappy fast food in overabundance is a choice, true enough. But this is not the same thing as being obese. Being obese is not always a choice, since it can have medical causes independent of one's dietary habits.

whoa there. Fast food got me through college and it's by no means crappy! 😛

Anyway, I think it is part nature and part nurture with obesity. Obese parents will most probably have bad eating habits along with their kids. Is it passed through the genes or habitual that these kids are obese? Who knows. I don't know any studies on whether or not it's one or the other.

 

[Haemulon]

whoa there. Fast food got me through college and it's by no means crappy! 😛

Anyway, I think it is part nature and part nurture with obesity. Obese parents will most probably have bad eating habits along with their kids. Is it passed through the genes or habitual that these kids are obese? Who knows. I don't know any studies on whether or not it's one or the other.

Hey, I am right there with you. I doubt I would live very long without a fast food joint on every corner (and my extra 20 pounds provides ample evidence of this.) As a matter of fact, I think I will run up to Wendy's in a few minutes and get me a nice spicey chicken sandwich (lord help my heartburn later though ... getting older sucks sometimes).

But dang it, if i'm not gonna be a smoker then at least I can enjoy some yummy goodness for lunch. 😉

 

[notdeadyet]

I love how our society is almost accepting of obesity, yet smoking is perceived as an extremely disgusting, unhealthy habit.

Go up to someone who is grossly overweight and tell them how accepting our society is of obesity...

 

[notdeadyet]

It's morally wrong for anyone to smoke cigarettes. Buying cigarettes supports the tobaco company, the tobacco company is evil, hence buying cigarettes is evil.

How is your bio-diesel car treating you?

 

[War Eagle]

My mom is a nurse and told me once of a child in the hospital that had asthma. He was doing fine, but when his mom would show up, he would have an asthma attack due to the odor if cigarettes that flowed from her hair and clothing. I think that a doctor should be free of such potential problems. As far as obesity. I don't think and succesful studies have been done on the dangers of second hand fat, so I don't think that you can make the comparison of smoking doctors vs overwheight doctors.

 

[cleothecat]

Let us not confuse morally wrong with just plain silly!

 

[twohearted]

My mom is a nurse and told me once of a child in the hospital that had asthma. He was doing fine, but when his mom would show up, he would have an asthma attack due to the odor if cigarettes that flowed from her hair and clothing. I think that a doctor should be free of such potential problems. As far as obesity. I don't think and succesful studies have been done on the dangers of second hand fat, so I don't think that you can make the comparison of smoking doctors vs overwheight doctors.

Second hand fat is extremely dangerous. It is disgusting and even horrifying. Just the other day my friend was holding a scalding cup of coffee when a fat lady walked by. The sight of the cellulite covering every inch of her limbs caused him to be startled. The cup went flying and hit an innocent bystander. Now the person is dead. Also, fat people, much like SUVs, have a high roll over rate and tend to topple when making turns. I saw this fat woman fall over and crush this poor woman a while back. The woman is dead. The point is that second hand fat, much like second hand smoke, is dangerous and even deadly.

 

[Koch]

How is your bio-diesel car treating you?

Huh?

 

[KittenKiller]

>>Agreed!! I would NEVER go to a doctor who is morbidly obese or who (to my knowledge) smoked. hypocritical... zero credibility ... possible unethical ...

Well I wouldnt go to a doctor who makes such a logical fallacy as to claim a personal vice such as smoking has anything to do with expertise in the medical field. Gimme the chain smoking cardiologist anyday over a dumb doctor.

 

[notdeadyet]

Huh?

Sorry. You were saying that buying cigarettes is evil since they support the tobacco company. Just saying that driving is also evil then, as anyone driving a regular automobile is supporting the petroleum industry.

 

[Darksmurf]

Sorry. You were saying that buying cigarettes is evil since they support the tobacco company. Just saying that driving is also evil then, as anyone driving a regular automobile is supporting the petroleum industry.

That correlation only works out if you assume that petroleum is evil.

 

[Tired]

That correlation only works out if you assume that petroleum is evil.

No, it only works if you assume that the oil companies are evil.

Which of course they are. Infinitely more so than the tobacco companies.

 

[notdeadyet]

That correlation only works out if you assume that petroleum is evil.

Petroleum, no. Petroleum companies, yes.

 

[War Eagle]

Second hand fat is extremely dangerous. It is disgusting and even horrifying. Just the other day my friend was holding a scalding cup of coffee when a fat lady walked by. The sight of the cellulite covering every inch of her limbs caused him to be startled. The cup went flying and hit an innocent bystander. Now the person is dead. Also, fat people, much like SUVs, have a high roll over rate and tend to topple when making turns. I saw this fat woman fall over and crush this poor woman a while back. The woman is dead. The point is that second hand fat, much like second hand smoke, is dangerous and even deadly.

Haha. Thanks for helping me see the potential dangers of second hand fat. I had thought that such dangers could only be mental or optical, but apparently there are physical dangers as well.
My sympathies to the family of the guy that died from the scalding coffee that fell upon him due to second hand fat. Lets start a campaign in his memory. We could stay with the theme of the "March of Dimes' and call it the "March of Quarter-Pounders with Cheese."

 

[Koch]

Sorry. You were saying that buying cigarettes is evil since they support the tobacco company. Just saying that driving is also evil then, as anyone driving a regular automobile is supporting the petroleum industry.

True, but oil, at least for now, is a necessary evil. Cigarettes are serve no practical purpose.

 

[FemalesCANTDriv]

wow you are REALLY cool. You don't even make sense. How does my being a nursing student when caring for my dying grandmother have anything to do with me not liking smoking? What a freak. What compassion you have.
BTW i also am finishing up grad school top of my class and entering med school in the fall so you can shove it. Also, I know plenty of nurses who smoke too and it makes no difference. Doctor, nurse, police officer, Stay at home mom, I don't like smoking for any of them.

How about shooting guns??? Doctors shouldn't be able to shoot guns nor should police officers be allowed to shoot guns. Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, why don't we make talking illegal since sometimes people say things that hurt my feelings



PS: Congrats on med school my republican nurse friend.

 

[FemalesCANTDriv]

Eating crappy fast food in overabundance is a choice, true enough. But this is not the same thing as being obese. Being obese is not always a choice, since it can have medical causes independent of one's dietary habits.

ya that's why obesity runs rampid in starving nations just as much as in the US... 👎

 

[ssquared]

You're starting from some rock-solid premises there, boy.

I hate cigarettes, but I wouldn't say that the tobacco companies are evil. I live in the state that headquarters Phillip Morris, but I can't say I've seen their executives hanging out with Satan recently. Let's not go so far to equate wrong with evil.

 

[gujuDoc]

ya that's why obesity runs rampid in starving nations just as much as in the US... 👎

True!!!! While obesity is not completely a comparable example to smoking, by and large a good high percentage of those who are grossly obese are such because of lack of exercise and bad eating habits.

Problem with this country is that

A. Most restaurants give too much food rather then giving one serving size's worth of food.
B. Crops are often grown with the addition of chemical growth enhancers that in turn have effects on us when eat them. Things that are naturally grown have less severe effects on our metabolism which partially accounts for why foreign countries have less obesity issues.
C. Fast Food chains which contribute a lot of fatty foods and very few nutritional problems.
D. People have much easier transportation methods here that they don't have to walk a lot of places and a lot of people get lazy with even small things like elevators vs. taking the stair cases. Even these small things like walking vs. driving, using stairs vs. elevators make a difference. But in some cases we can't help that we have to drive since places are too far and some cities are too spread out. But if we were in some place like manhattan where people often walk most places and rarely need a car i bet that would make a bit of a difference.


These are just a few things that come to mind but there are several other factors I think that also contribute to the obesity issue in this country as well.

 

[Tired]

True, but oil, at least for now, is a necessary evil. Cigarettes are serve no practical purpose.

Yes, but I haven't seen RJ Reynolds destabilizing any third-world government in order to exploit their natural resources. US Tobacco doesn't routinely support "industry friendly" despots in Africa or play a role in the execution of human rights activists. Liggett didn't have deals in the works with the Taliban prior to their fall . . .

 

[ssquared]

B. Crops are often grown with the addition of chemical growth enhancers that in turn have effects on us when eat them. Things that are naturally grown have less severe effects on our metabolism which partially accounts for why foreign countries have less obesity issues.

I've never heard that argument before...can ask what your sources are for that bit of info? Just curious.

These are just a few things that come to mind but there are several other factors I think that also contribute to the obesity issue in this country as well..

High fructose corn syrup....talk about evil in liquid form. Ick.

 

[JohnMadden]

I didn't read all the previous posts...

I don't think physicians smoking cigarettes is a moral issue. However, it's no different that doctors having unprotected sex...

 

[cbtk18]

no (and I hate smoking)

 

[blackrsx]

ya that's why obesity runs rampant in starving nations just as much as in the US... 👎

.

 

[Koch]

I didn't read all the previous posts...

I don't think physicians smoking cigarettes is a moral issue. However, it's no different that doctors having unprotected sex...

Is there any other kind?

 

[Koch]

I hate cigarettes, but I wouldn't say that the tobacco companies are evil. I live in the state that headquarters Phillip Morris, but I can't say I've seen their executives hanging out with Satan recently. Let's not go so far to equate wrong with evil.

Look, they sell a product that they know kills millions of people each year. In addition to that, they add chemicals to it that they know to be addictive. So, they sell a product that kills, and they make it as difficult to stop as possible. How is that not evil?

 

[Noeljan]

How about shooting guns??? Doctors shouldn't be able to shoot guns nor should police officers be allowed to shoot guns. Two wrongs don't make a right. In fact, why don't we make talking illegal since sometimes people say things that hurt my feelings



PS: Congrats on med school my republican nurse friend.

ooo we are going to have to take this outside😉
ps so let's get this straight i'm a republican from NY, and you are a democrat from TX? 😀 See stereotypes are not right!

 

[Haemulon]

ya that's why obesity runs rampid in starving nations just as much as in the US... 👎

Thats the key word there. I suppose your right that endocrine problems and certain drug treatment regimens never ever lead to alterations in metabolism and weight increases for any individuals. Even if people did experience this, they should just all stop eating like normal people and live like those in starving nations. So lets just not pay any attention to trying to distinguish between true gluttons and those with genetic or medical conditions that effect their metabolism. It doesn't matter anyway, their all immoral because their fat right? 🙄

I guess I am guilty of contributing to those over-consumptive American ideologies by wolfing down my Big Mac and fries tonite. Whoops! Time to go up a pant size! Ah well, maybe someone will reduce global energy consumption by turning my excess fat into bio-fuel a la Denny Crane. I'm a bad fishman, bad. 😳

My point is not to argue against the poor state of the general American diet, but rather instead to argue that not everyone who is overweight has reached their condition by choosing to overeat.