Is it official?

[dr.evil]

My buddy in plastics tells me that all programs have gone to 3 years (after 5 years of general surgery) starting with the next interviewing cycle. Is it true? Are the plastic residents starting in 2010 going to do residency for 3 years instead of 2?

I knew this was a rumor and that it was going to happen at some point but I didn't realize this application cycle was the year.

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[...to_the_OR!]

Yes, it seems to be official. There's a document on the PRS RRC section of ACGME website that outlines the new requirements making all "fellowships" ie independent programs 3 years (making all combined or coordinated 3+3). Also, the new changes make all integrated programs 6 years. This is supposed to go into effect July 1 2009, but there will likely be a transition period of some sort for the 5 yr ones for a couple of years for some of the residents already in the programs. I have heard rumors that for the "combined" 3+2 programs everyone except current interns will be allowed to do 5 as part of a transition plan, but that is still very much rumor.

 

[droliver]

As I understand it from the RRC, it's not going to be an optional thing as of the group that goes thru the match in 2009. There will be no "phase in" period for traditional 2 year programs or current 5 year integrated for funding that 3rd clinical year by 2013 (when the traditional group would graduate). To maintain accredidation the programs have to be in compliance. It's feared that some programs may have to shut their training program down for lack of funding the salary lines.

 

[GLW102]

Sorry to ask a question in a question thread, but as someone applying this year to plastic surgery out of medical school, I'd like to know: for those of us applying this year, does this change affect us if we end up in a 5 year integrated program? i.e. if we match into a 5 year program this year (2009), will we need to complete 6 years anyway due to this decision? Thanks for keeping those of us coming up in the know!

 

[...to_the_OR!]

Applicants who match this year will have to do 6 yrs regardless. What I meant in the pev post was that there will likely be some "grace" extended to those already in 5-yr integrated programs, and also to the PGY 2's and 3's in 5-yr combined programs. The current interns in combined 5-yr will likely be the first PGY-6 in these residencies, or so I have been told.

 

[droliver]

What I meant in the pev post was that there will likely be some "grace" extended to those already in 5-yr integrated programs, and also to the PGY 2's and 3's in 5-yr combined programs.

Correct. It's this next years group of MS4's & traditional pathway applicants who'll be the first to whom the new rules apply.

 

[GLW102]

Few more questions: was the change made due to the idea that 2 years was not sufficient training based on the performance of those leaving the 2 years programs? Do you guys feel the same way? What about schools that have 3 years of training, but built into the three years is a large amount of required research (like Las Vegas with 12 months of research)? Thanks ahead of time!

 

[Moravian]

Few more questions: was the change made due to the idea that 2 years was not sufficient training based on the performance of those leaving the 2 years programs? Do you guys feel the same way? What about schools that have 3 years of training, but built into the three years is a large amount of required research (like Las Vegas with 12 months of research)? Thanks ahead of time!

Part of the issue is that the independent people (of which I was one) do not get a lot of exposure to the same rotations that the integrated residents do. I'm talking about things like ENT rotations, oral surgery, ortho/hand, derm, etc. The integrated residents also usually rotate in plastics several times prior to their dedicated plastics training. The curricula at combined programs depend on where you train.

Speaking only for me, I would have liked having the extra exposure to oral surgery, ENT and hand that I didn't get in general surgery. There is so much to learn that two years was not thought (by some) to be enough time. On the flip side of that, there are still old guard that complain about having to teach the integrated guys things that the general surgeons already know.

The bottom line is that I think the extra year is a good thing if it's done right.

Also, as a previous comment to droliver, the funding issue may be a problem in some places, but I would be really suprised that, given the current climate in medical education, that any program actually has to fold because they can't find a solution. Time will tell.

 

[droliver]

the funding issue may be a problem in some places, but I would be really suprised that, given the current climate in medical education, that any program actually has to fold because they can't find a solution. Time will tell.

On the contrary, there are a number of smaller divisions apparently teetering on the brink of disolving from financial or staffing issues. This gets discussed a lot in PS News, summaries of ABPS meetings, and in editorials in the white journal.

The issues re. finding funding for a 3rd year was recently discussed at length in PS News. It's a BIG issue as some medical schools and institutions have made it clear they consider this the Plastic Surgery section's responsibility.

 

[Moravian]

The issues re. finding funding for a 3rd year was recently discussed at length in PS News. It's a BIG issue as some medical schools and institutions have made it clear they consider this the Plastic Surgery section's responsibility.

I agree with you as much as this has been discussed at length at meetings and in PS news. The PS news article also referred to both the lengthening of the neurosurgery and ENT residencies that underwent the same panic about funding but no programs closed and the universities found a way for funding. Also cited was the quote from Dr. Rohrich that more plastic surgeons need to be trained (he was talking a 30% increase) which would additionally be at odds with loss of slots.

I do think that there will be a scramble for resources, but I'm staying firmly with the opinion that even the smaller programs will find a way.

Respectfully as always,

--M

 

[Dr. McDreamy]

Is there any official source you can reference that says that all PRS fellowships will be 3 years from now on?

 

[Moravian]

Is there any official source you can reference that says that all PRS fellowships will be 3 years from now on?

Source one: Plastic Surgery News, June 2008

Source two: https://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/RRC_360/360_prIndex.asp

On the ACGME website you will notice that it has been approved but not in effect. The date for effect is July 1, 2009.

The ACGME website is a great source of information if you can find what you're looking for.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Source one: Plastic Surgery News, June 2008

Source two: https://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/RRC_360/360_prIndex.asp

On the ACGME website you will notice that it has been approved but not in effect. The date for effect is July 1, 2009.

The ACGME website is a great source of information if you can find what you're looking for.

Does anyone know if the AOA PRS fellowships are switching to 3 years, and if they do not, how this will affect being board certified??

 

[CLAZO121]

yep it is!