Is It Over?

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failingpremed

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I'm one of those students that's about to receive an "F" in the first semester of Organic Chemistry. Does this basically throw my chances of getting into medical school out the window?
 
Long answer: Retake it and apply DO.
 
No. But, you will need to retake it because most schools require >C in the prerequisites to matriculate. Do well in your other prerequisites and maintain a >3.6 cGPA and you should be o.k. grade wise.
 
Extra long answer: Right the ship and do well in the rest of your classes, you're not doomed for MD
 
Like said above: retake and apply DO.
 
failingpremed said:
So don't even bother applying MD?
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I'm not the most reliable source of information. But I would say one F, is not going to kill you. It will hit your GPA hard right now, but as long as you don't have any other C, D, or Fs on your transcript and you only have high Bs, and mostly As your GPA really won't be affected too much. Also, just make sure to kick butt on your retake and stay positive. Thats the biggest thing don't be defeated by it.
 
failingpremed said:
So don't even bother applying MD?
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Sure. Your overall GPA (Ochem needs to be ≥C at the very least, though) is what gets you in the door. Keep it at or above 3.6 and you will be competitive in terms of you GPA. Definitely apply DO because, if you get an A in your retake, your GPA will be higher for their application service than for AMCAS.
 
Whack Get Out said:
Don't listen! MD is still on the table
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Only if you can somehow make a >3.4GPA after getting an F. It's pretty rare that a student has a transcript that looks like this: AAAAAAAFAAAAA....
 
Whack Get Out said:
Don't listen! MD is still on the table
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Just going based off of "most likely". Most people who fail ochem and still want to be physicians retake it and go DO. I know one girl who got into MD after failing the first ochem class but got straight A's in everything else and did an SMP. It was a 3 year turn around.
 
True, this is all contingent on OP being able to perform well otherwise. In a scenario where they manage to do well in school and have a strong application otherwise, one F in four years of coursework will not throw MD chances out the window.
 
Well this F is not my only blemish, but it is definitely my biggest. I also got 2 C's during freshman year, but the rest of my grades have been good. Even with this F, my gpa after this semester would still be above a 3.0, but just barely. So I think > 3.4 is still possible, since I'm only 3 semesters in, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.
 
failingpremed said:
Well this F is not my only blemish, but it is definitely my biggest. I also got 2 C's during freshman year, but the rest of my grades have been good. Even with this F, my gpa after this semester would still be above a 3.0, but just barely. So I think > 3.4 is still possible, since I'm only 3 semesters in, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.
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Don't think like this. You're going to get an A in all the rest of your classes. Set that bar for yourself. You'll meet the standards you set for yourself.
 
So basically it's more about the gpa than the individual letter grades?
 
Unfortunately for you, it's not over, so you can't get off that easily. It's basically never over unless you personally give up or you have something so horrendous on your permanent record, like a criminal record or one or two severe academic integrity violations.
 
Also, after running some calculations, I think I can get a D. Will that make any difference?
 
I don't agree that it's over. Retake it and try to get an A. Use it as a learning experience and make sure you ace your other science classes, there is always an option to explain something that may not look desirable on your application. Apply broadly and definitely apply to both DO and MD, one F is not the end of the world, but it is most definitely a huge bump in your journey. Good luck. Side note: I'm not sure what the circumstances are around your class, but if you could maybe ask for an incomplete and then complete next semester with a better grade, it may be a little helpful.
 
If you retake and get an A then get an A in the second semester, the first semester will probably get asked about at interviews but I doubt it'll get your app placed in the trash. Now if your O Chem grades go something like F, C, C then you might be in trouble.
 
Anicetus said:
Just going based off of "most likely". Most people who fail ochem and still want to be physicians retake it and go DO. I know one girl who got into MD after failing the first ochem class but got straight A's in everything else and did an SMP. It was a 3 year turn around.
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You have zero data saying this, so why are you going around telling the OP that most people in his/her shoes go DO? It doesn't help others on this forum to make stuff up. There are plenty of successful MD applicants with an isolated blemish or even a few on their academic records. As long as this is not a trend, if the OP can keep his GPA competitive, nobody is going to fixate on a single F in Orgo I -- especially if there is a good grade in a re-take and Orgo II. I have an F on my transcript, and <gasp> 2 C's in pre-requisites, and I am in an MD program in CA. I don't recommend getting those grades if you can avoid it, b/c obviously getting into medical school was not as easy, but by no means was I forced into DO and had multiple MD interviews/admissions.

OP, obviously, you need to retake the course as others have said and improve your academic performance in future pre-med courses. Depending on how your school handles withdrawing from a course, it might be worthwhile to consider that option. Getting into med school is not a race, so if you need to take a semester without doing any pre-med courses or if you need to take fewer at a time in order to do well in all of them, it is worth the extra time . . . whatever you do, just make sure you don't retake the class (or anything that depends upon mastery of Orgo) until you figure out what went wrong and have a plan to fix it.
 
An "F" or a "D"? Just being honest you didn't try very hard. Not trying to flame you but, with forty quickly approaching I can say I wish someone had set me straight earlier in life. Fact is it is pretty difficult to fail any class and that goes the same for the "D" border. I certainly think no decision exists that will stop you from accomplishing anything in life but, this needs to be a wake up call. Maybe you should forego Xbox, little Suzie, and beer... Attend some tutoring and watch some YouTube videos. If becoming a doctor is important to you I can tell you first hand the first orgo is the least of your troubles, time to become a nerd.
 
Can't believe people are telling you to retake and apply DO.

OP YOU ARE FINE. Retake Ochem I and get a good grade. Then take Ochem II and get a A+ the first time. Remember if you have an upward curve medical schools will notice. Not only that, but if you get an A+/A in Ochem II and BiochemI as well. It shows you didn't quit, but persisted through and did better. Medical schools want to see dedication . Show that to them.

Seriously. I know a lot of med school buddies I talk to who failed ochem I the first time and retook it and revised their studying habits and then went onto doing extremely well in ochem II and other higher level science courses.

Keep your GPA up, refine your studying habits, and keep pushing hard. You will make it MD.Obviously something needs to change though, since Ochem requires dedication.
 
failingpremed said:
Also, after running some calculations, I think I can get a D. Will that make any difference?
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You still need to retake it. You need a C minimum in all your prereq courses
 
Definitely retake because it is a pre-req. Otherwise, just focus on improvement and get A's from now on.

I have been invited to interview at a Top 10 school with a D in a physics course. Why??? Who knows, but I think it has to do with the fact that it was 8 years ago and I've buried it with dozens of A's since.

One bad grade, in any subject, will not ruin you. Just destroy your courses from this point forward and never look back.
 
mk04447 said:
An "F" or a "D"? Just being honest you didn't try very hard.
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This is absolutely ridiculous and not helpful at all. Organic classes have varying levels of difficulty at different schools. In my Organic I class, we started off with 120 people and ended with 18. Were all the people who didn't make it just not trying?
 
Zelda840 said:
This is absolutely ridiculous and not helpful at all. Organic classes have varying levels of difficulty at different schools. In my Organic I class, we started off with 120 people and ended with 18. Were all the people who didn't make it just not trying?
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.....wow that's a 15% survival rate. That's not "weed-out" that's "weed-killer." Are you sure that the professor didn't just spray organophosphates on every exam? I'm so glad I didn't go to your school. /badjokesftw

Good luck to the OP! It's a long and hard road, since you have a history of C's and now this, but no, it's not over. Work your a** off. Refuse to accept anything other than A's or B's from now on. Take a hard look at youself and ask, "Why didn't I get this right on the exam? Is it understanding or is it just that I didn't memorize a certain reaction?" You need to improve your study habits. And for Orgo, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Do as many problems as you can. Then do them again. REPETITION REPETITION REPETITION.

Srsly, for the average college exam, practice and repetition can net you at least a B, if not an A.
 
Zelda840 said:
This is absolutely ridiculous and not helpful at all. Organic classes have varying levels of difficulty at different schools. In my Organic I class, we started off with 120 people and ended with 18. Were all the people who didn't make it just not trying?
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not to sound like a doosh, but I wish my ochem class was that hard. I love the challenge of ochem tests and I love "preparing for them". That's just me though.
 
Whack Get Out said:
Don't listen! MD is still on the table
Click to expand...

I failed my second semester of OChem (B first semester). I was probably on track for a D, maybe a C if i blew off all of my other finals (I was taking a high class load) to study for it. In the end I skipped the OChem II final.

My GPA from then on was stellar (all As), but not a whole lot of science classes, just some upper level physics (I was never a science major).

I graduated from college unsure of what to do, had some amazing experiences, and decided 3 years later to apply for medical school. I took Ochem again (and a few other pre-reqs) at the nearest university and got As. It was a completely different experience, in part the class was a bit easier at my local school (still an excellent one though- not a shabby community college), in part the professor was really stellar, and in large part because I knew what I wanted and was willing to make sacrifices to achieve it.

I studied like a crazy person for the MCAT and I got a great score. I am applying for MD schools now. I'm doing ok! 4 interview offers at great schools, and one rejection so far. Mostly I'm getting a lot of silence- like many applicants.

I'm sure that reviewers take pause when they see that grade, but they seem willing to give me a second chance. I am sure they will for you too if you can show that you are willing to make the changes necessary to become a better student.
 
Schools look for trends in your grades, not one individual grade. Retake it, get an A, and you should be okay. I'm assuming the rest of your grades are MD material, though...
 
pietachok said:
You have zero data saying this, so why are you going around telling the OP that most people in his/her shoes go DO? It doesn't help others on this forum to make stuff up. There are plenty of successful MD applicants with an isolated blemish or even a few on their academic records. As long as this is not a trend, if the OP can keep his GPA competitive, nobody is going to fixate on a single F in Orgo I -- especially if there is a good grade in a re-take and Orgo II. I have an F on my transcript, and <gasp> 2 C's in pre-requisites, and I am in an MD program in CA. I don't recommend getting those grades if you can avoid it, b/c obviously getting into medical school was not as easy, but by no means was I forced into DO and had multiple MD interviews/admissions.

OP, obviously, you need to retake the course as others have said and improve your academic performance in future pre-med courses. Depending on how your school handles withdrawing from a course, it might be worthwhile to consider that option. Getting into med school is not a race, so if you need to take a semester without doing any pre-med courses or if you need to take fewer at a time in order to do well in all of them, it is worth the extra time . . . whatever you do, just make sure you don't retake the class (or anything that depends upon mastery of Orgo) until you figure out what went wrong and have a plan to fix it.
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Chill out. I said "most" not "all".

Considering it took you 2 application cycles with no acceptances first and then finally getting into your CA school, you fall under the category I spoke of, in which someone with weaker grades can potentially bust their *** for a couple more years longer and look like a unique applicant. MOST people may not be up for 3 cycles. If anything, I'm at fault for making the assumption that OP doesn't have the tenacity to grill it out for 3 years after graduation to make up for weaker grades.
 
Okay thank you for all the responses! I'm glad to know I still have a shot if I persist, but are the 2.5 years of undergrad I have remaining really that unlikely to be enough to make up for this? 3 years on top of the 2.5 I have remaining just to get in almost doesn't sound worth it.
 
No. But there are Very Few excuses for getting an F in Organic Chemistry. Take it again, don't F-up again, and be prepared to give a good explanation if you get an interview down the line.


EDIT: Oh, and reverse score that grade next time. Get an A+. You can do it, just knuckle down and put the puzzle together. I love O-Chem and the reason I got A's in all three of them was because everyone always told me how it was the hardest class I'd take at college. I took that as a personal challenge.
 
failingpremed said:
Okay thank you for all the responses! I'm glad to know I still have a shot if I persist, but are the 2.5 years of undergrad I have remaining really that unlikely to be enough to make up for this? 3 years on top of the 2.5 I have remaining just to get in almost doesn't sound worth it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you shouldn't be a doctor.
 
failingpremed said:
Okay thank you for all the responses! I'm glad to know I still have a shot if I persist, but are the 2.5 years of undergrad I have remaining really that unlikely to be enough to make up for this? 3 years on top of the 2.5 I have remaining just to get in almost doesn't sound worth it.
Click to expand...


Buddy, If you take it again and get an A+, most schools will take the two grades and average them into your GPA. That basically means that, in terms of GPA, it will looks like you got a C in O-Chem. It will obviously still appear on your transcript unless your school allows you to drop this grade. I know some do but no way for anyone here but you to know that for sure.
 
I had an F, D and C on my transcript (2 science, 1 non-science) and was accepted to USMD and also have about ~5 more interviews down the pipeline. Definitely isn't over. Schools tend to look at overall GPA and science GPA and as long as you have a good reason for the grades, explain it well and do well on the MCAT, you should be fine. Start getting A's and look into getting a tutor and giving up weekends. I know that you have a lot of time in undergrad, but if you want medical school, you're going to have to start getting A's and that means changing up your schedule. If next semester you're still doing poorly, I'd suggest dropping the semester and looking into your study habits and taking an easier course load.

Also make sure you have a lot to offer in the way of ECs or life experiences. Some of the schools I interviewed/will interview at passed high stats people for interviews so they clearly saw something they liked in my file so I'd suggest you look into getting some good ECs. As for what exactly constitutes good ECs...well you're on your own there.
 
failingpremed said:
Okay thank you for all the responses! I'm glad to know I still have a shot if I persist, but are the 2.5 years of undergrad I have remaining really that unlikely to be enough to make up for this? 3 years on top of the 2.5 I have remaining just to get in almost doesn't sound worth it.
Click to expand...
You do realize that even if you were starting med school next year, you are still at least 7.5 years out from practicing independently, right? Whether you add two or three years to that time, you are a long way from being an attending. Is it worth it? What will you do instead? If a few more years of undergrad really make you question whether this is worth it, you may in fact want to choose another career... If you are already questioning whether it is worth the work, I can imagine you burning out real fast during your preclinical years....
 
Zelda840 said:
This is absolutely ridiculous and not helpful at all. Organic classes have varying levels of difficulty at different schools. In my Organic I class, we started off with 120 people and ended with 18. Were all the people who didn't make it just not trying?
Click to expand...

Really? You think it was too hard or others decided the grade wasn't worth the effort. The millennial generation quits jobs and heads home whenever they don't like how someone talked to them and they try every professor until they find the easiest one. If you could compare comments on Rate My Professor with age and final grade I'd bet you'd be astonished. Grade schools now teach us to run as fast as the slowest person and that fairness is a right, news flash, life isn't fair. The sooner people accept this, the sooner they can realize nobody is doing the work for them and rewards aren't handed out for participation. Whether a class is hard or not an "F" is "absolutely ridiculous". Why are you defending less than mediocrity? What this fellow needs are friends who are willing to be honest with him. I don't think he is out of the game but, his priorities need to change in order to succeed... Simple as that, sorry if it hurts your feelings.
 
mk04447 said:
Really? You think it was too hard or others decided the grade wasn't worth the effort. The millennial generation quits jobs and heads home whenever they don't like how someone talked to them and they try every professor until they find the easiest one. If you could compare comments on Rate My Professor with age and final grade I'd bet you'd be astonished. Grade schools now teach us to run as fast as the slowest person and that fairness is a right, news flash, life isn't fair. The sooner people accept this, the sooner they can realize nobody is doing the work for them and rewards aren't handed out for participation. Whether a class is hard or not an "F" is "absolutely ridiculous". Why are you defending less than mediocrity? What this fellow needs are friends who are willing to be honest with him. I don't think he is out of the game but, his priorities need to change in order to succeed... Simple as that, sorry if it hurts your feelings.
Click to expand...
3uaf4n.jpg
 
mk04447 said:
Really? You think it was too hard or others decided the grade wasn't worth the effort. The millennial generation quits jobs and heads home whenever they don't like how someone talked to them and they try every professor until they find the easiest one. If you could compare comments on Rate My Professor with age and final grade I'd bet you'd be astonished. Grade schools now teach us to run as fast as the slowest person and that fairness is a right, news flash, life isn't fair. The sooner people accept this, the sooner they can realize nobody is doing the work for them and rewards aren't handed out for participation. Whether a class is hard or not an "F" is "absolutely ridiculous". Why are you defending less than mediocrity? What this fellow needs are friends who are willing to be honest with him. I don't think he is out of the game but, his priorities need to change in order to succeed... Simple as that, sorry if it hurts your feelings.
Click to expand...

I'm tired of blanket statements against millennials when I actually consider our cohort getting dealt with crap that Gen Xers and Baby Boomers left for us. I don't know who these lazy gen y's you speak of, but my friends bust their asses in unpaid internships, ****ty job prospects that were once there and are now gone and debt thanks to universities increasing the tuition rate to astronomical highs.

Also, don't hate people for trying to game the system for easy A's when they can be the difference between going to medical school and not. If you're not doing all you can to get the A, then you're doing it wrong. (Not including anything cheating, that is wrong).
 
darklabel said:
I'm tired of blanket statements against millennials when I actually consider our cohort getting dealt with crap that Gen Xers and Baby Boomers left for us. I don't know who these lazy gen y's you speak of, but my friends bust their asses in unpaid internships, ****ty job prospects that were once there and are now gone and debt thanks to universities increasing the tuition rate to astronomical highs.

Also, don't hate people for trying to game the system for easy A's when they can be the difference between going to medical school and not. If you're not doing all you can to get the A, then you're doing it wrong. (Not including anything cheating, that is wrong).
Click to expand...

No doubt most of you, along with my children, got dealt crap but, while most would consider this a political discussion for another time, I believe it is all related... and... you confirm my thoughts with your statements. The elimination of standards and instant gratification have lead to spending money we do not have and this means you were passed considerable debt. It is this mindset that school is a means to an end and not an end in itself that has eroded hard work/dedication. You should be attending school to educate yourself, not to get a job... "Don't hate people for trying to game the system"... I don't hate you, I'm ashamed for you because you have no idea what matters in life. So, I'll tell you, it is the journey, the people we love, and accomplishing difficult tasks. Rome fell because entertainment became more important than the responsibility to put forth an honest best effort. I fear America will travel the same path eventually if we don't stop this type of thinking, don't daydream about the day you become a doctor, don't choose the easiest path because its quicker, enjoy learning all you can along the way and relish in the fact you'll become an amazing physician.
 
mk04447 said:
Really? You think it was too hard or others decided the grade wasn't worth the effort. The millennial generation quits jobs and heads home whenever they don't like how someone talked to them and they try every professor until they find the easiest one. If you could compare comments on Rate My Professor with age and final grade I'd bet you'd be astonished. Grade schools now teach us to run as fast as the slowest person and that fairness is a right, news flash, life isn't fair. The sooner people accept this, the sooner they can realize nobody is doing the work for them and rewards aren't handed out for participation. Whether a class is hard or not an "F" is "absolutely ridiculous". Why are you defending less than mediocrity? What this fellow needs are friends who are willing to be honest with him. I don't think he is out of the game but, his priorities need to change in order to succeed... Simple as that, sorry if it hurts your feelings.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm not butthurt - lol. I was one of the few that survived that class. I'm not saying life is fair or trying to coddle OP or even saying they will make it into medical school. To have a chance, OP will have to make a change and it will be an uphill battle.....obviously. But to flat out say that someone who gets a D or F in Organic just "didn't try" is laughable. Lots of people try hard/put in a lot of effort and still fail Organic.
 
Zelda840 said:
Hey, I'm not butthurt - lol. I was one of the few that survived that class. I'm not saying life is fair or trying to coddle OP or even saying they will make it into medical school. To have a chance, OP will have to make a change and it will be an uphill battle.....obviously. But to flat out say that someone who gets a D or F in Organic just "didn't try" is laughable. Lots of people try hard/put in a lot of effort and still fail Organic.
Click to expand...

We're simply going to have to agree to disagree. The only way to genuinely fail organic as you indicate requires complete failure to apply yourself in and out of class. In fact, I think it would take more than this, it would probably indicate failure to master inorganic chemistry concepts meaning someone must have gamed the system as previously mentioned, found an easy professor, and learned nothing to their detriment.
 
mk04447 said:
We're simply going to have to agree to disagree. The only way to genuinely fail organic as you indicate requires complete failure to apply yourself in and out of class. In fact, I think it would take more than this, it would probably indicate failure to master inorganic chemistry concepts meaning someone must have gamed the system as previously mentioned, found an easy professor, and learned nothing to their detriment.
Click to expand...

I think the main way, however imperfect and limited in scope, to evaluate whether someone has truly failed organic chemistry or not is through a standardized test such as the MCAT because every premed applying to medical school in the United States and Canada has to take it.
 
Thanks guys! One more question: Do you think I should I retake my C's as well or should I just move on?
 
failingpremed said:
Thanks guys! One more question: Do you think I should I retake my C's as well or should I just move on?
Click to expand...

Failing you're scaring me a bit. Look, here's how it should go (my .02), continue on your degree path, take the MCAT, and you'll either kill it or not. Apply to schools and you'll either be accepted or you won't. If you don't get the score you desire or the schools don't show interest, then retake the classes and start over. If you want to become a physician, you'll find a way.
 
It's just 2-3 other C's on top of this D/ F. Not like straight C's or anything. Everything else is A/B.
 
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