Is it over?

[BlatantPlatitude]

See previous posts and reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/premed/s/KKSXgXWNrg for context about my last cycle

(525, 3.79)
Just got a post-interview R from Johns Hopkins.
Looking for any advice, I have had an interview at Duke, JH, and Vanderbilt. The last interview was with JH in like November and I have not got any more interviews, no bites from any schools in the mid-range either. Idk what I am supposed to do if I am getting interviews at these schools but not other ones outside the top 20 that would have a higher chance at a post-II rate. This is my second cycle now and last cycle I had interviews at UW, Hofstra (WL - didn't get off), Penn, Duke, and Yale, all ended in R. I have only improved my application and have narrowed down my story and reasons for wanting to do this, significant practice with interview coach. It is hard to convince people on the internet that I am normal and don't have some huge ego or walking red flag thing and I can only try my best to convince people that this is not the case. The only thing I am thinking is that my grades are like in the 10-20% for some of these schools that I am interviewing at, and then with my MCAT up in that range the lower schools are just yield-protecting and deciding not to interview me.

I have also had all my essays read by multiple docs, english majors, and the absolutely mythical u/ToastedButter from last cycle and I am really at a loss here.

If I don't get in this cycle, I will have to retake the MCAT because it will expire. I am really convinced that there is no point to retaking the MCAT and trying again because I will end up with the same result. The only twisted way of thinking I have right now is thinking about retaking the MCAT and getting a lower score that matches my GPA so that I can apply to schools outside of the top 20 basically. Only getting interviews at these schools that are still a coin flip for the best of applicants, with sub 25% post-II rates. What do people think? Is it joever?

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[goge69]

Sorry your cycle isn't turning out the way you wanted it, but you still have 2 left to hear back from! I feel like if you added more high mid tiers like Ohio state or UVA, you may have gotten more attention. I know of at least 3 people who had 523+/weak ECs that got into OSU, although the rest of your app seem 10x better

Also, it's interesting that having 3 CNS pubs didn't auto admit you either. Maybe that is an indicator that even superb research productivity/hours will not carry people past the interview stage at T20s without other cohesive non-clinical/leadership for MD only.

I took a look at your WAMC from 2023, and I believe fundraising for charity would not count as non-clinical volunteering. It would instead be classified as leadership by adcoms. Rather, non-clinical volunteering would entail working with people in need, like your special needs kids volunteering. How many hours of that do you have? Beyond that, I think involving yourself and creating impact would stand out. It may be that your activities seemed disjointed and checkboxey.

Honestly tho, you have a great app, and it may just come down to chance. I was a reapplicant as well this cycle (high stats/great research), but I think my success was due to the fact that I was able to reflect well on a non-clinical volunteering activity that I started during my 1st failed cycle and demonstrated substantial impact via update letters. I could also tell my answers during interviews this year seemed more genuine and mature than the last.

What is your plan if you have to reapply? What have you been doing in your gap year that is not research? If you didn't improve on service orientation this past year, I'd recommend applying mdphd since research carries a lot more weight than MD only. I too was considering applying mdphd to get into T20s, but wanted to give MD only one more try before I did that bc of the extra essays lol.

 

[Faha]

Have you heard back from Duke and Vanderbilt this cycle ? Which schools did you apply to this cycle ?

 

[Med Ed]

I have seen a pattern in reapplicants to often that I call it "The Mistake."

The pattern: strong metrics, strong research, strong clinical, weak service. Yes, your service is weak, or at least much weaker than the rest of your application. Agree with @goge69 that fundraising is nice but not really what adcoms are looking for. Activities that are funneled through fraternities/sororities are also somewhat tainted. Much better to head down to the local homeless shelter/soup kitchen and interact with adults in need.

I don't mean to diminish your application. You're clearly very bright and have done a lot of hard work, and your 5 II's show that. But when I read through your WAMC, noting your bench, squat, chess blitz rating, tennis jobs, stays abroad, T10 undergrad, frat stuff, and thinly veiled interest in orthopedic surgery, you seem very oriented around self and generic measures of achievement. And when you're on the adcom at Yale, Penn, JHU, etc. you have the luxury of sifting through numerous applications with your numbers but more conspicuous humanistic elements.

Also, your WAMC profile says you are a "White boi" while your Reddit post says you are ORM. The ORM designation is usually reserved for certain groups of south Asian and/or east Asian descent.

 

[AJS59]

For this cycle, yeah it's likely over. Never count anything out but I'd start thinking ahead.

If you're going to need to retake the MCAT, I'd consider taking this cycle off anyways, just so you don't rush it and can more firmly reevaluate your standing

I also disagree with your contention about scoring lower on the MCAT because that would "allow you to apply outside the T20." I had relatively similar hard metrics to you in terms of GPA and MCAT and had a similarly tough shake at the T20s, but I am still happily going to med school at a not-quite T20 but still very well funded school that matches above its ranking seemingly every single year, and honestly I wouldn't trade that for a "T20" right now.

Finally, what exactly did you change from last cycle to this one. 3 T20 IIs is great and to me isn't a sign of a failure on the part of your application, rather that there's something in your interviewing that turning those schools off.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Previously with link to first WAMC

Thread '525 MCAT and NO A’s.'

Mar 8, 2024

Sorry for clickbaitey title I just wanted to get some advice.

Current Cycle: 29 primary | 29 secondary | 5 II, 20 pre-II R, 5 post-II R, ghosted by 2 lol |
LM 81 525 MCAT 3.79 cGPA

I have strong ECs with success in research and 3 CNS pubs and 3 others in lower impact journals but higher impact author spots. 3000+ hours working as an MA and Scribe hybrid. Volunteering but not super meaningful and hours were limited. Was in fraternity leadership role. White male.

Here is my school list for starters:

UCSF

Stanford

Duke

...

• BlatantPlatitude
• Replies: 49
• Forum: What Are My Chances? WAMC Medical

• 

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Did you apply to PhD only programs in medical schools where the CNS authorship carries much more meaning (because it isn't for clinical medicine)? Digress: Of course, under current circumstances, who knows what's going to happen with funding and Ph.D. education though I think those opportunities still make themselves available.

Total conjecture: I didn't review your application or updates, so I don't know where you improved in the last cycle. However, there is a mismatch between what you expect from your education and what medical schools look for in students, even the elite ones. I and many other consultants also evaluate "teachability." Are you the right student who can appreciate learning in their culture with their students? To be rejected outright in two cycles tells me that the schools don't think you add productively to the student/learner culture (as one hypothesis that is unprovable and highly subjective). Mid-tier schools won't look at you because they can predict you won't go to their programs (yield protection, culture fit).

You said you had practiced your interviewing skills, presumably over the last year. How did you do this? Did you barrage yourself with lists of anticipated questions or the AI bots feeding you questions to answer and think about? How well-rehearsed were you in your "why our school" questions? Did you feel comfortable with the meet-and-greet sessions? Duke is notorious for wanting deeply reflective and conscientious students, and the competition is very elite (as it would be for other brand-name schools).

Among the students who helped you with PS and your application, how many gave you insight about their schools and their interview processes? Do they feel you should be a highly valued member of the student body? How do you command respect from your future peers (physicians) and faculty? To patients and other health professionals? How much did you listen to others or show you are interested/engaged with their conversations? Or was everything about your accomplishments or highlighting your readiness for medical school?

If you apply again, you tread into the 3-time applicant club carrying high metrics. Even if your MCAT expires, the score stays on your AMCAS record, and many schools will wonder why none of the other T20s/brand name schools picked you up in the previous cycles (comments on "you must have gotten interviews from a ton of schools"). I would be surprised if any schools that interviewed you twice decided to take another flyer on you if you don't show significant improvement; they already have an idea of what you would be like as a student at their school, and enough concerns were aired to the adcoms collectively.

I never believe what impressions one leaves on the internet is the whole truth about the poster, but that also means you have to deeply reflect and be critical of your motivation to be a part of academic medicine as a student. You have to show that you have the smarts for gameplay and the honesty and integrity to be sincere in caring for a community that needs empathy. Why that has not come through is the mystery you need to solve since you have had plenty of expert and peer advice to help you seal the deal on an offer.

P.S. Roseman will open in AMCAS for a July 2025 start. Throw a lifeline out and see what happens.

 

[DoneDone3451]

Did you apply to PhD only programs in medical schools where the CNS authorship carries much more meaning (because it isn't for clinical medicine)? Digress: Of course, under current circumstances, who knows what's going to happen with funding and Ph.D. education though I think those opportunities still make themselves available.

Total conjecture: I didn't review your application or updates, so I don't know where you improved in the last cycle. However, there is a mismatch between what you expect from your education and what medical schools look for in students, even the elite ones. I and many other consultants also evaluate "teachability." Are you the right student who can appreciate learning in their culture with their students? To be rejected outright in two cycles tells me that the schools don't think you add productively to the student/learner culture (as one hypothesis that is unprovable and highly subjective). Mid-tier schools won't look at you because they can predict you won't go to their programs (yield protection, culture fit).

You said you had practiced your interviewing skills, presumably over the last year. How did you do this? Did you barrage yourself with lists of anticipated questions or the AI bots feeding you questions to answer and think about? How well-rehearsed were you in your "why our school" questions? Did you feel comfortable with the meet-and-greet sessions? Duke is notorious for wanting deeply reflective and conscientious students, and the competition is very elite (as it would be for other brand-name schools).

Among the students who helped you with PS and your application, how many gave you insight about their schools and their interview processes? Do they feel you should be a highly valued member of the student body? How do you command respect from your future peers (physicians) and faculty? To patients and other health professionals? How much did you listen to others or show you are interested/engaged with their conversations? Or was everything about your accomplishments or highlighting your readiness for medical school?

If you apply again, you tread into the 3-time applicant club carrying high metrics. Even if your MCAT expires, the score stays on your AMCAS record, and many schools will wonder why none of the other T20s/brand name schools picked you up in the previous cycles (comments on "you must have gotten interviews from a ton of schools"). I would be surprised if any schools that interviewed you twice decided to take another flyer on you if you don't show significant improvement; they already have an idea of what you would be like as a student at their school, and enough concerns were aired to the adcoms collectively.

I never believe what impressions one leaves on the internet is the whole truth about the poster, but that also means you have to deeply reflect and be critical of your motivation to be a part of academic medicine as a student. You have to show that you have the smarts for gameplay and the honesty and integrity to be sincere in caring for a community that needs empathy. Why that has not come through is the mystery you need to solve since you have had plenty of expert and peer advice to help you seal the deal on an offer.

P.S. Roseman will open in AMCAS for a July 2025 start. Throw a lifeline out and see what happens.

Isnt Roseman going to be heavy instate bias for Nevada residents?

 

[Goro]

Isnt Roseman going to be heavy instate bias for Nevada residents?

They were asking for apps right here on SDN, so that tells me that they don't have an IS bias.

Get in service to others less fortunate than yourself.

 

[Med Ed]

Isnt Roseman going to be heavy instate bias for Nevada residents?

A private school in a state of only 3.2 million that already has two public medical schools and Touro-NV? Nope, Roseman is going to be largely populated by Californians.

 

[DoneDone3451]

A private school in a state of only 3.2 million that already has two public medical schools and Touro-NV? Nope, Roseman is going to be largely populated by Californians.

Makes sense, but I just saw that they have a mission of getting Nevada people, but I could be wrong.
Here is where I read it: ‘We still need more doctors’: Medical university in Summerlin expanding campus

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Makes sense, but I just saw that they have a mission of getting Nevada people, but I could be wrong.
Here is where I read it: ‘We still need more doctors’: Medical university in Summerlin expanding campus

They do, but if you have no offers, might as well try. You have metrics to get noticed, and the other Nevada medical schools may have locked up most of the very desirable in-state candidates. If mission fit doesn't align, you're no worse off.

 

[karaya]

Differential

Most likely school list or volunteering. Others have reinforced the necessity of service, which seems to be missing from your app. Also, it looks like your previous school list was top-heavy. If you haven't changed it, I wouldn't expect different results. You can't be getting yield protected by "mid-tiers" if your school list resembles the top 30. (Side note, I dislike the concept of a "mid-tier" school. From a rankings perspective, someone must occupy the middle of the curve. But rankings are mostly meaningless. From a personal perspective, all my classmates are brilliant, well-rounded, and deeply empathetic people. Any hint of arrogance, entitledness, or low social IQ is weeded out before admission.)


Less likely interview skills. It's possible you come off the wrong way, but anything more specific than that would be conjecture.

Least likely GPA. I don't think you're being screened out with a 3.79.

getting a lower score that matches my GPA so that I can apply to schools outside of the top 20 basically

It's quite arrogant to think that a 525 elevates you above the bottom ~140 schools. You really have no idea how competitive this process is until you're on the other side of it. If you go again, apply broadly. Anyway, sorry I got on my soapbox there. It's not over yet, you still have two decisions left. I didn't get the A until May.

 

[DoneDone3451]

They do, but if you have no offers, might as well try. You have metrics to get noticed, and the other Nevada medical schools may have locked up most of the very desirable in-state candidates. If mission fit doesn't align, you're no worse off.

Could someone who has not even submitted their primary techinically submit and apply to roseman for this cycle?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Could someone who has not even submitted their primary techinically submit and apply to roseman for this cycle?

You submitted an AMCAS, right? If not, how did you get your interviews? Roseman wants to start in July 2025, so you can use the currently active AMCAS.

 

[DoneDone3451]

You submitted an AMCAS, right? If not, how did you get your interviews? Roseman wants to start in July 2025, so you can use the currently active AMCAS.

I did, I submitted June 2024. a friend that I work with is planning to apply next cycle 2025-2026 but is in state Nevada and was planning on submitting an application as part of 2024-2025 for roseman, but it’s late in the cycle so I wasn’t sure if that was possible todo that still.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I did, I submitted June 2024. a friend that I work with is planning to apply next cycle 2025-2026 but is in state Nevada and was planning on submitting an application as part of 2024-2025 for roseman, but it’s late in the cycle so I wasn’t sure if that was possible todo that still.

Roseman will solicit applications in March. They want to fill a class in July 2025. They need to fill a 60-seat class in 3 months. They will take any chance to grab high-metrics applicants for their inaugural class if they are still available.

It's not possible to do this until Roseman appears as an option on AMCAS 2025. But they sound like they will have a warp speed process to select students. We will see what additional information they profess for an ideal student body. AMCAS 2026 is for the 2026 entering class, so your friend will have to wait until May if they have no active AMCAS 2025 application to be a student in July 2026. (Sure if your friend wants to submit an AMCAS 2025 now before it shuts down, then that person can go for Roseman for this July 2025 class.)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thread 'It’s Not Too Late! Join RUCOM’s 2025 MD Inaugural Cohort!'

Feb 14, 2025

Exciting news for future physicians!

Roseman University College of Medicine (RUCOM) is expected to be accepting applications in AMCAS in early March of this year for the inaugural July 2025 cohort. As an allopathic medical school, RUCOM aims to train future physicians to meet the growing healthcare needs of Nevada and beyond.

For any questions or additional information, please contact our Admission’s department at [email protected]

“A new medical school is opening in Las Vegas in an attempt to mitigate the physician shortage in Nevada.

Nevada-based Roseman University of...

• RosemanMedicine
• 2025 cycle inaugural class medical school new medical school pre-med pre-med admissions
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Pre-Medical (MD)

• 

 

[wysdoc]

I did, I submitted June 2024. a friend that I work with is planning to apply next cycle 2025-2026 but is in state Nevada and was planning on submitting an application as part of 2024-2025 for roseman, but it’s late in the cycle so I wasn’t sure if that was possible todo that still.

Roseman site says you need a 2024-2025 completed app in the system to apply right now.