Is it possible for somebody with an average IQ to get a 30 on the MCAT?

[grindtime1]

One of my buddies the other day was telling me that he believed it was possible to pass med school with a dead average IQ of 100 with a tireless work ethic because that is what he did. I was shocked to find out that someone could even get into med school with a 100 IQ, but perhaps he was one of those applicants with a low MCAT and high GPA/impressive EC's (and I don't see any reason for him to lie about having an IQ that low).

But if an average student with an IQ of 100 were to study for the MCAT for 7+ months, could he get a 30?

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[Badger MD]

One of my buddies the other day was telling me that he believed it was possible to pass med school with a dead average IQ of 100 with a tireless work ethic because that is what he did. I was shocked to find out that someone could even get into med school with a 100 IQ, but perhaps he was one of those applicants with a low MCAT and high GPA/impressive EC's (and I don't see any reason for him to lie about having an IQ that low).

If an average student with an IQ of 100 were to study for the MCAT for 7+ months, could he get a 30?

An IQ test isn't a measure of intelligence, its just a measure of how much information you can retain/learn (which society has convoluted over time to equate to higher scores equaling smarter people ~ some artistically gifted students have IQ scores of 175s and they never get an A in their life). Anyone who is willing to put in the time could get a 30/get through medical school.

 

[houseobsessed]

How about a 45?

 

[CaptainSSO]

Are you kidding me? Most of the pre-med students at my school are NOT that intelligent (and I don't mean that in an insulting way--I mean it in a factual sense). Certainly they aren't stupid, but they are not super intelligent.

 

[JFalc]

I truly hope so. Because if not, I am screwed.

Two scores are in the <90 range, the other two (including memory) are in the <80 range.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Are you kidding me? Most of the pre-med students at my school are NOT that intelligent (and I don't mean that in an insulting way--I mean it in a factual sense). Certainly they aren't stupid, but they are not super intelligent.

To be fair, how many of them get into medical school. Further, you probably have a somewhat skewed view of average intelligence. I went to a public high school with a <50% graduation rate and a college with a 95% acceptance rate, and even then I probably have an overshoot of what average intelligence is.

 

[orthomyxo]

Are you kidding me? Most of the pre-med students at my school are NOT that intelligent (and I don't mean that in an insulting way--I mean it in a factual sense). Certainly they aren't stupid, but they are not super intelligent.

I feel the same way. Not that I'm some genius or anything, but I think I have a much more realistic outlook on this whole process then they do. I see them toting their AAMC Official MCAT books around in ignorant bliss and it kinda makes me lol because they think they're all going to get 40T's and sail into a top 20 school.

 

[grindtime1]

Are you kidding me? Most of the pre-med students at my school are NOT that intelligent (and I don't mean that in an insulting way--I mean it in a factual sense). Certainly they aren't stupid, but they are not super intelligent.

Probably true, but most of your pre-meds will not score close to a 30 on the MCAT.

 

[apumic]

Average intelligence for an MD is around 121 per this graph:

Seeing as less than 10% of physicians are below 105, someone w/ an IQ of 100 is unlikely to get into medicine; however, it is certainly possible.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

LOL IQ Tests. Stupid as hell.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Oh and internet posts where people talk about their IQ are like internet posts where people post dick sizes. Except worse because I can come to your house and actually measure your dick size (and I will).

 

[MossPoh]

An IQ test isn't a measure of intelligence, its just a measure of how much information you can retain/learn (which society has convoluted over time to equate to higher scores equaling smarter people ~ some artistically gifted students have IQ scores of 175s and they never get an A in their life). Anyone who is willing to put in the time could get a 30/get through medical school.

There are different IQ tests to measure different aspects. It seems you are convoluting intelligence to mean getting A's in the classroom.

The sheer fact you are in college automatically lends itself towards being a little greater than 100. We become a bit jaded because we surround ourselves with nothing but 100+ IQ people all day every day. If you're from a small town like me and return after a long time, you will feel like an intellectual juggernaut. I never felt smart before, nor do I feel smart when I'm school, but when I'm talking to someone there I frequently get these blank stares.

I think someone with a 100 COULD get a 30 MCAT. I wouldn't put my money on it though.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Nah, I bet I could train pretty much anyone to score pretty much anything on the MCAT. It's not a test of intelligence. You just need to work through the material enough times.

I mean, I don't consider myself a particularly intelligent person (I mean I don't think I'm stupid or anything). I haven't taken one but I wouldn't be surprised if I scored below a 100, maybe below a 90 on an IQ test and I do fine in school and MCAT.

 

[eablackwell]

My cousin has an IQ around 88, and it is very aparent that something is not normal when it comes to comprehension tasks. It takes him MUCH longer than normal. I agree with many of you who say we surround ourselves with 100+ IQ individuals.

I do not believe IQ is as important as people make it out to be, and hard work can overcome average- less than average IQ, no question. As a teacher I see it everyday. However, there is a line where comprehension takes so long and so much effort that it is extremely detrimental and becomes a serious problem. It's lower than 100, IMO.

 

[Bugatti]

My cousin has an IQ around 88, and it is very aparent that something is not normal when it comes to comprehension tasks. It takes him MUCH longer than normal. I agree with many of you who say we surround ourselves with 100+ IQ individuals.

I do not believe IQ is as important as people make it out to be, and hard work can overcome average- less than average IQ, no question. As a teacher I see it everyday. However, there is a line where comprehension takes so long and so much effort that it is extremely detrimental and becomes a serious problem. It's lower than 100, IMO.

I agree with you that hard work will carry you and help you overcome intelligence deficits but would you not say that in medical school at least there's going to be a ceiling that your hard work can only carry you so far? Like I'm a 2nd year student and there's just SOOO much material that's presented and the tests are focused on minutiae. I would say it's more of a challenge for individuals who need longer to comprehend the material than those with IQs of 130+ especially when it comes to figuring out clinical scenarios that are tricky. I'm not saying that your 100+ IQ will compensate for not working hard on these tests it's that you're able to do better because of that intelligence while doing maybe 1/2-3/4 amount of work the other student did. What say you teach?

 

[eablackwell]

I agree with you that hard work will carry you and help you overcome intelligence deficits but would you not say that in medical school at least there's going to be a ceiling that your hard work can only carry you so far? Like I'm a 2nd year student and there's just SOOO much material that's presented and the tests are focused on minutiae. I would say it's more of a challenge for individuals who need longer to comprehend the material than those with IQs of 130+ especially when it comes to figuring out clinical scenarios that are tricky. I'm not saying that your 100+ IQ will compensate for not working hard on these tests it's that you're able to do better because of that intelligence while doing maybe 1/2-3/4 amount of work the other student did. What say you teach?

I 100% agree with you on that. Back when I was in high school our valedictorian spent hours upon hours studying for things I barely cracked a book for. Often times I would do the same, better, or only a few points worse than her. I see the same thing in my chem classes. It is brutally obvious in AP chem when lightbulbs turn on instantly vs slow and steady ramping up of light.

With the speed and sheer volume that info will be thrown at you in med school (from what I hear) a higher IQ/faster processing of material would be a great asset, and I'd imagine the learning curve gap gets bigger since some will not have sufficient time to review review review and critical think their way into a good exam grade. However, high IQ does not automatically = good memorization skills. My husband and I have comparable IQs, but I have almost a photographic memory. He has to understand the where, why, and when of something before it is committed to memory. He has awesome critical thinking skills, which help him with this. He loved calculus, because he understood it, but biology gave him fits due to all the memorization involved.

There are different types of intelligences.

 

[Bugatti]

dbl post

 

[Bugatti]

Well, let me say this much Teach ... that photographic memory of yours is going to be a HUGE blessing in med school, if not 1st year definitely 2nd year. So at least you have that too look forward to in 2 years right? haha. But I definitely subscribe to the IQ =/= memory this year. It's amazingly painful to memorize ridiculous details that are pointless (try cracking open a micro book and memorizing those little bastards and what drugs work on em, ). But yes, you're beginning a long and arduous but amazing journey. Don't lose focus on the goal at the end cause there will be days you're going to be like "what the hell am I doing this for?" haha

 

[gravitywave]

IQ tests are worthless as a measure of raw intelligence as it's been shown that a substantial part of the variance in scores has to do with how well socialized the taker is. curiousity/experience with modern 1st world society =/= intelligence.

Nah, I bet I could train pretty much anyone to score pretty much anything on the MCAT. It's not a test of intelligence. You just need to work through the material enough times.

Ivy, i applaud your sentiment but it's wrong. i think you've been spending too much time in the ivory tower lately, surrounded by your intellectual peers 😀 agree that the MCAT is not a test of intelligence or even "depth" of understanding the material, but most people can't pull up the necessary "breadth" of different thinking styles it requires to do well, in the amount of time given to finish the test. Time is the kicker, it's how they curve all the big standardized exams.

MCAT doesn't predict well for science, medicine or even med school GPA. it has a modest correlation to Step I scores, and so is used as a crude measure of how likely a person is to pass USMLE. note that they call it the "Medical School Admission Test," they're not even trying to suggest that it measures aptitude for anything

 

[jvesco22]

Oh and internet posts where people talk about their IQ are like internet posts where people post dick sizes. Except worse because I can come to your house and actually measure your dick size (and I will).

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Ivy, i applaud your sentiment but it's wrong. i think you've been spending too much time in the ivory tower lately, surrounded by your intellectual peers 😀 agree that the MCAT is not a test of intelligence or even "depth" of understanding the material, but most people can't pull up the necessary "breadth" of different thinking styles it requires to do well, in the amount of time given to finish the test. Time is the kicker, it's how they curve all the big standardized exams.

Haha maybe. I need to get 20 committed students, and my point can be proven or disproven. 30 doesn't require you to master all that much.

I need to find myself a good IQ test (not crappy internet one). I would make a bet that I don't score above a 100. Every single one of my friends from my major was probably as smart or smarter than I am.

 

[Ponger]

One of my buddies the other day was telling me that he believed it was possible to pass med school with a dead average IQ of 100 with a tireless work ethic because that is what he did. I was shocked to find out that someone could even get into med school with a 100 IQ, but perhaps he was one of those applicants with a low MCAT and high GPA/impressive EC's (and I don't see any reason for him to lie about having an IQ that low).

But if an average student with an IQ of 100 were to study for the MCAT for 7+ months, could he get a 30?

No question: yes.

Assuming a person who got all B's in his prereq's studied diligently and intelligently for 7 months, he certainly would be able to get a 30 on the MCAT. The amount of the material covered on the test is not that large. The key is can he develop the test-taking skills needed to do well. The MCAT is like the SAT, you can teach to the test and do significantly better.

 

[apumic]

Nah, I bet I could train pretty much anyone to score pretty much anything on the MCAT. It's not a test of intelligence. You just need to work through the material enough times.

I mean, I don't consider myself a particularly intelligent person (I mean I don't think I'm stupid or anything). I haven't taken one but I wouldn't be surprised if I scored below a 100, maybe below a 90 on an IQ test and I do fine in school and MCAT.

Haha maybe. I need to get 20 committed students, and my point can be proven or disproven. 30 doesn't require you to master all that much.

I need to find myself a good IQ test (not crappy internet one). I would make a bet that I don't score above a 100. Every single one of my friends from my major was probably as smart or smarter than I am.

Did you graduate college? If so, you're already, on average, an entire SD above the population mean (i.e., average IQ of a college graduate, according to several published studies, is around 115). It is actually unlikely someone with an IQ of 100 would graduate college -- most of them end up dropping out at some point (typically freshmen year). Your SAT score (and corresponding percentile) can be used to give a good estimate of IQ.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

I call BS on that. I knew people who drop out and in every case it was due to not working rather than being too stupid to understand despite trying. Do you have any stats on that?

Also, with SAT, people improve 100-200+ points with practice or taking a class. Their brain power improved in that time?

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Also, if the IQ tests were actually measuring something useful instead of just knowledge/experience/test-taking-skills, you wouldn't see a huge improvement in IQ scores over the decades. The average person in 1900 would have an IQ of under 75, e.g, they would have been classified as mentally ******ed by modern standards. Suffice it to say, that doesn't make any sense.

 

[surftheiop]

I need to find myself a good IQ test (not crappy internet one). I would make a bet that I don't score above a 100. Every single one of my friends from my major was probably as smart or smarter than I am.

Yeah but when you consider that probably something like 10-20% of America drops out of highschool, graduating from college with a math degree is pretty strong evidence that your way above average in IQ.

Humility is a good thing to an extent, but being overly humble when its obvious your extremely gifted will actually make "average" people feel worse about themselves.

 

[Mr Hippopotamus]

IQ is such a rough measure of intelligence, I don't think it matters. My brother, who has a shockingly high IQ, barely got through college, while I had no problem. Obviously if you have trouble with reading comprehension or basic algebraic formulas, things will be difficult, but an IQ of 100 shouldn't be a barrier. Hard work is a bigger guarantee success than raw intelligence, though you'll want both to break 40. And anyway, past a certain point I find verbal reasoning to be a lot like Russian roulette. Though in English, obviously.

 

[phonyreal98]

Also, if the IQ tests were actually measuring something useful instead of just knowledge/experience/test-taking-skills, you wouldn't see a huge improvement in IQ scores over the decades. The average person in 1900 would have an IQ of under 75, e.g, they would have been classified as mentally ******ed by modern standards. Suffice it to say, that doesn't make any sense.

By that logic, Aristotle would have an IQ of approximately -400!😱 (give or take ~200 points)

 

[IvyHopeful20]

Yeah but when you consider that probably something like 10-20% of America drops out of highschool, graduating from college with a math degree is pretty strong evidence that your way above average in IQ.

Humility is a good thing to an extent, but being overly humble when its obvious your extremely gifted will actually make "average" people feel worse about themselves.

Maybe so but I think the word gifted is inappropriate. Some people work their ass off every single day for an A, others don't come to lecture, party the weekend before a final, show up and it just "makes sense" to them. I'm most certainly the former and I've made my peace with that. Those might be extremes but I've seen both from my personal experiences. I think math, more than any other subject, brings the extremes out. I have to bust my ass for a proof, other people sit down and just "see" it.

I'm not claiming I'm dumb but I've seen gifted and I'm not it.

More on topic, and I say this without meaning to sound arrogant, I will most likely get into a decent MD/PhD program - something that is seen as competitive. My MCAT and gpa might be better than those gifted kids but I don't think it correlates with intelligence. That's all I was saying.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

By that logic, Aristotle would have an IQ of approximately -400!😱

Ya exactly. If iq tests measured anything "innate", they wouldn't be going up so fast.

 

[apumic]

Also, if the IQ tests were actually measuring something useful instead of just knowledge/experience/test-taking-skills, you wouldn't see a huge improvement in IQ scores over the decades. The average person in 1900 would have an IQ of under 75, e.g, they would have been classified as mentally ******ed by modern standards. Suffice it to say, that doesn't make any sense.

Take a course in psychometrics and then come back and explain to us all why this logic is unbelievably flawed and ignorant.

 

[gravitywave]

Maybe so but I think the word gifted is inappropriate. Some people work their ass off every single day for an A, others don't come to lecture, party the weekend before a final, show up and it just "makes sense" to them. I'm most certainly the former and I've made my peace with that. Those might be extremes but I've seen both from my personal experiences. I think math, more than any other subject, brings the extremes out. I have to bust my ass for a proof, other people sit down and just "see" it.

I'm not claiming I'm dumb but I've seen gifted and I'm not it.

dude, you have definitely been spending too much time in the ivory tower. a math major is hard and you are sounding just beaten down by the number of people you know who are really good at math.

you've got a 4.0 in probably the most conceptually difficult subject there is, and you've got a 39 on your MCAT. those are just plain not possible for most people. come on and stop with the false modesty already.

Also, if the IQ tests were actually measuring something useful instead of just knowledge/experience/test-taking-skills, you wouldn't see a huge improvement in IQ scores over the decades. The average person in 1900 would have an IQ of under 75, e.g, they would have been classified as mentally ******ed by modern standards. Suffice it to say, that doesn't make any sense.

this is out in left field too.

 

[phonyreal98]

Take a course in psychometrics and then come back and explain to us all why this logic is unbelievably flawed and ignorant.

That's what I'm sayin'.

 

[morning]

Did you graduate college? If so, you're already, on average, an entire SD above the population mean (i.e., average IQ of a college graduate, according to several published studies, is around 115). It is actually unlikely someone with an IQ of 100 would graduate college -- most of them end up dropping out at some point (typically freshmen year). Your SAT score (and corresponding percentile) can be used to give a good estimate of IQ.

I find that hard to believe. 100 is not some horribly low score - it's average, and I'm sure the average person could complete a college degree, although most don't. A rubber dildo could obtain a bachelor's.

Considering how many supposedly intelligent people willingly go over 100k in debt for a liberal arts degree, I'm starting to believe that student loan debt is INVERSELY proportional to IQ.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

dude, you have definitely been spending too much time in the ivory tower. a math major is hard and you are sounding just beaten down by the number of people you know who are really good at math.

you've got a 4.0 in probably the most conceptually difficult subject there is, and you've got a 39 on your MCAT. those are just plain not possible for most people. come on and stop with the false modesty already.



this is out in left field too.

All right, fine, you win. I guess I'll have to find a decent iq test. I'll report back. If anyone has any reliable ones I can take for free, let me know.

I might be the first person not on death row to take one with the intention of proving a low score 😛.

 

[wristbandMD]

Did you graduate college? If so, you're already, on average, an entire SD above the population mean (i.e., average IQ of a college graduate, according to several published studies, is around 115). It is actually unlikely someone with an IQ of 100 would graduate college -- most of them end up dropping out at some point (typically freshmen year). Your SAT score (and corresponding percentile) can be used to give a good estimate of IQ.

I don't believe this. There are too many other variables that come into play. For example, did the person study? Are they a good test taker? Did they get enough sleep the week before? Were they hungover/drunk/high while taking the test? I personally scored pretty low by my standards (1800), but was hungover and did not whatsoever (be it through classes, practice tests, reading, etc). This is purely anecdotal, but I'd like to think my SATs are not an indicator of my IQ.

Also, the reliability and validity of IQ tests should come into play. The free tests that you can access online tend to vary in the way they score. On one test you may receive a score of 130, while another may give you a score of 170. The only "reliable" source is a standardized test, and even then the validity of these tests must be called into question! As mentioned above, there are several factors that may affect the validity of an IQ test. The list would be miles long!

 

[wanderer]

Your SAT score (and corresponding percentile) can be used to give a good estimate of IQ.

I don't know. I know in my own experiences, a lot of the people I've seen with higher/comparable SAT are a lot less intelligent than I. Maybe if you control for different variables it becomes true (for example my high school education wasn't too great which might explain why I didn't get a higher SAT than I did). Also I know some societies like MENSA have accepted SAT scores in the past instead of formal IQ tests but most if not all no longer do so due to changes in the SAT.

BTW, not directed at you at all, but what's with all the hypeboles in this thread?

 

[morning]

All right, fine, you win. I guess I'll have to find a decent iq test. I'll report back. If anyone has any reliable ones I can take for free, let me know.

I might be the first person not on death row to take one with the intention of proving a low score 😛.

The problem with IQ tests online is that the average is always supposed to be 100. If people are scoring higher than 100 on average, the tests will be recalibrated so that 100 is the average again. If you take an IQ test online, you're measuring your intelligence vs. the other people who have taken it online, people who can take it again and again until their ego is sated.

That said: http://iqtest.dk/main.swf

It's modeled after the Raven Matrices, which is supposed to be culturally unbiased. It does not test knowledge or memory.

 

[hiyaman]

LOL IQ Tests. Stupid as hell.

👍

 

[apumic]

I don't believe this. There are too many other variables that come into play. For example, did the person study? Are they a good test taker? Did they get enough sleep the week before? Were they hungover/drunk/high while taking the test? I personally scored pretty low by my standards (1800), but was hungover and did not whatsoever (be it through classes, practice tests, reading, etc). This is purely anecdotal, but I'd like to think my SATs are not an indicator of my IQ.

Also, the reliability and validity of IQ tests should come into play. The free tests that you can access online tend to vary in the way they score. On one test you may receive a score of 130, while another may give you a score of 170. The only "reliable" source is a standardized test, and even then the validity of these tests must be called into question! As mentioned above, there are several factors that may affect the validity of an IQ test. The list would be miles long!

The free ones online aren't really IQ tests. Actual IQ tests are a very different breed from these. Nevertheless, IQ test scores DO increase over time due to a variety of testing effects. These effects have been studied and are well-documented and generally well-understood. (Granted, there will always be questions and there will always be a quest to "solve" these "problems.") IQ also isn't just one score. Actual IQ tests give multiple subscores. Of course, not everything can be measured (e.g., creativity is an essentially unquantifiable/unmeasurable construct within the overarching construct of intelligence).

I don't know. I know in my own experiences, a lot of the people I've seen with higher/comparable SAT are a lot less intelligent than I. Maybe if you control for different variables it becomes true (for example my high school education wasn't too great which might explain why I didn't get a higher SAT than I did). Also I know some societies like MENSA have accepted SAT scores in the past instead of formal IQ tests but most if not all no longer do so due to changes in the SAT.

BTW, not directed at you at all, but what's with all the hypeboles in this thread?

People tend to overstate things. It's the nature of an internet forum....

As for the rest of your post, I'd argue that there is a difference between street smarts (i.e., common sense) and the kind of intelligence an IQ test measures. Sure, there may be some crossover but just there's also a huge difference....

The problem with IQ tests online is that the average is always supposed to be 100. If people are scoring higher than 100 on average, the tests will be recalibrated so that 100 is the average again. If you take an IQ test online, you're measuring your intelligence vs. the other people who have taken it online, people who can take it again and again until their ego is sated.

That said: http://iqtest.dk/main.swf

It's modeled after the Raven Matrices, which is supposed to be culturally unbiased. It does not test knowledge or memory.

Honestly, if you're taking an IQ test online, the results aren't going to be anywhere near valid. There are far too many factors playing into it (e.g., non-standard test taking environment, ability to cheat, lack of good timing mechanisms, etc.) and it isn't just your own environment that matters, it is the entire population's. If one person goes and cheats during theirs or has retaken the test several times, his/her score(s) mess(es) up the entire distribution.

 

[IfeelYourPain]

Well, from another viewpoint... I was in the special-ed (gifted) program in high school and we had to be re-evaluated every 2 years to make sure we qualified the school for extra funding from the government. We took IQ tests administered by state employees to quantify various different intelligences and had to score over 130 each time to qualify. I did this twice, (1 freshman year, 1 junior year) and qualified both times.

Now, I have done pretty well in college, but the MCAT was a definite challenge for me. I had to take it a second time to get a 30.

Moral of the story (and also cliche saying): "Your I-will is way more important than your IQ"

Average intelligence + awesome work ethic - nervousness/ fear/ stress issues= dominant MCAT


We did have a sub-test for creativity lol; we were given a series of shapes on paper, like 2 rectangles, a square, and a circle for instance and asked to draw a picture using them and write a corresponding story to accompany the picture. Haha, but how it was "graded," I have no clue...

 

[apumic]

Well, from another viewpoint... I was in the special-ed (gifted) program in high school and we had to be re-evaluated every 2 years to make sure we qualified the school for extra funding from the government. We took IQ tests administered by state employees to quantify various different intelligences and had to score over 130 each time to qualify. I did this twice, (1 freshman year, 1 junior year) and qualified both times.

Now, I have done pretty well in college, but the MCAT was a definite challenge for me. I had to take it a second time to get a 30.

Moral of the story (and also cliche saying): "Your I-will is way more important than your IQ"

Average intelligence + awesome work ethic - nervousness/ fear/ stress issues= dominant MCAT


We did have a sub-test for creativity lol; we were given a series of shapes on paper, like 2 rectangles, a square, and a circle for instance and asked to draw a picture using them and write a corresponding story to accompany the picture. Haha, but how it was "graded," I have no clue...

That test lends itself to a myriad of problems; to name a few:

-If someone is a great musical artist (and awesomely creative) but sucks at drawing and dislikes English (or speaks another language as his/her primary), how do you account for this?
-Someone who is great with geometry and spatial reasoning but has only average creativity (the story helps mitigate this but the math skills could still "compensate" for the drawing aspect)
-How about someone w/ awful spatial reasoning but far above-average creativity?
-Some of the most artistic people are quite disorganized, which might make such a task quite difficult despite their artistic ability

The reality is that creativity is ridiculously difficult to measure because it is expressed in so many different ways and is, by definition, unmeasurable (i.e., something that shows creativity has not yet been created and therefore cannot be evaluated based on any sort of rubric). Even professional instructors in the arts generally grade primarily on technique and not so much on artistry because the artistry of an individual is such a difficult thing to try and even approximately quantify.

 

[IfeelYourPain]

That test lends itself to a myriad of problems; to name a few:

-If someone is a great musical artist (and awesomely creative) but sucks at drawing and dislikes English (or speaks another language as his/her primary), how do you account for this?
-Someone who is great with geometry and spatial reasoning but has only average creativity (the story helps mitigate this but the math skills could still "compensate" for the drawing aspect)
-How about someone w/ awful spatial reasoning but far above-average creativity?
-Some of the most artistic people are quite disorganized, which might make such a task quite difficult despite their artistic ability

The reality is that creativity is ridiculously difficult to measure because it is expressed in so many different ways and is, by definition, unmeasurable (i.e., something that shows creativity has not yet been created and therefore cannot be evaluated based on any sort of rubric). Even professional instructors in the arts generally grade primarily on technique and not so much on artistry because the artistry of an individual is such a difficult thing to try and even approximately quantify.

I totally agree. If I remember correctly, I think it wasn't really factored into the test that much (like the writing section of the MCAT)... just kind of like a "wow, look how awesome this is."

Very good question about being musically gifted... I suppose this is why school's are cutting funding to music programs, should've been a rhythm section lol.

I don't know of any of the others that didn't speak English, but I'm sure there are similar tests given in different languages.

The shapes weren't actually physically moveable, they were drawn on the paper already in an arrangement. You could connect them somehow using lines or whatever.

There was another section for spatial reasoning in which you were given a series of moveable shapes and had to assemble them into a square or whatever, and the administrator recorded how much time it took you. So, this was actually pretty quantitative (assuming there is no luck, which most standardized tests do lol).

 

[TooMuchResearch]

One of my buddies the other day was telling me that he believed it was possible to pass med school with a dead average IQ of 100 with a tireless work ethic because that is what he did. I was shocked to find out that someone could even get into med school with a 100 IQ, but perhaps he was one of those applicants with a low MCAT and high GPA/impressive EC's (and I don't see any reason for him to lie about having an IQ that low).

But if an average student with an IQ of 100 were to study for the MCAT for 7+ months, could he get a 30?

If I did it, so can you.

 

[Techmed07]

I feel like I scored in an significantly higher precentile on the MCAT than on the SATs'. I feel like the SAT is more indicative of my IQ..but some would argue otherwise. Hardwork trumps all believe it.


SAT score: 620 VR 480 Math 520 Writing
MCAT Score: 12 VR 10 PS 11 BS

 

[Handinhand]

I got a 22 on my first MCAT diagnostic. I studied my ass off all summer and got a 36 on the real thing. I don't consider myself a very intelligent individual either. Doing well, not just on the MCAT or med school, but in life, is all about hard work.

As for SAT/ACT scores being a good correlate; I got a 25 on my ACT. Hardly phenomenal, but I've still done well in college and on the MCAT.

 

[CaptainSSO]

The problem with IQ tests online is that the average is always supposed to be 100. If people are scoring higher than 100 on average, the tests will be recalibrated so that 100 is the average again. If you take an IQ test online, you're measuring your intelligence vs. the other people who have taken it online, people who can take it again and again until their ego is sated.

That said: http://iqtest.dk/main.swf

It's modeled after the Raven Matrices, which is supposed to be culturally unbiased. It does not test knowledge or memory.

According to this internet IQ test, my IQ is 103. My MCAT was over a 30. So if this test is to be believed, then apparently yes a person with average IQ can get a 30 on the MCAT...

 

[eablackwell]

According to this internet IQ test, my IQ is 103. My MCAT was over a 30. So if this test is to be believed, then apparently yes a person with average IQ can get a 30 on the MCAT...

It is definitely not an accurate test. I scored a 106. Nowhere close to "MENSA level" (the title on the scale made me laugh).

I'm a member of MENSA.

Epic Fail IQ test. 😉

However, this doesn't change my opinion that people under 100 can study their way to a 30. I firmly believe the problematic IQ that would have a hard time studying their way to a 30 is lower than 100.

 

[wanderer]

I got a 106 or 107. I don't know my IQ but that's way off.

 

[CaptainSSO]

It is definitely not an accurate test. I scored a 106. Nowhere close to "MENSA level" (the title on the scale made me laugh).

I'm a member of MENSA.

Epic Fail IQ test. 😉

However, this doesn't change my opinion that people under 100 can study their way to a 30. I firmly believe the problematic IQ that would have a hard time studying their way to a 30 is lower than 100.

Ah, well in that case I take back my comment that most pre-meds I know are not that intelligent. I guess it is a case of having a skewed perspective due to the surroundings...

Edit: As fate would have it, immediately after posting this, the two kids sitting next to me in the computer lab spent about 2 minutes debating how to spell "philosophy" before finally abandoning their intellectual undertaking in favor of looking it up on dictionary.com...