Is it possible to get into a med school with a pattern of academic failure?

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Hello all. My path in college was a bit unconventional and personal, and I will try to share it to my best ability below.

I was a very gifted student beginning in elementary school and all through high school; in elementary school, I was always two years ahead in my projected reading and math levels, and I thus was able to skip a year of math early on in school. It was a lifelong dream of mine to be a doctor. In high school, I shadowed a surgeon for a year. I went to community college my first two years of school; there, I took 22 classes and received 17 A's, 5 B's. I worked incredibly hard to knock all these classes out in two years while working 20 hours a week; I studied day and night and I very often would set the high on my exams back then. I knocked out my pre-med requirements during this time (all except for the biochem courses). The summer of 2020, I did an REU internship with a chemistry professor, but due to the state of the world, it was conducted in a remote format and I thus did not gain proper experience from it. I began to experience a burnout and the beginnings of a depression during this time.

In the fall of 2020, I transferred to UCLA. At this point, my burnout and depression had begun to worsen significantly. The isolation in quarantine was beginning to really affect me. I lived in a home with my domestically abusive and alcoholic father (who I have PTSD from living with), and I struggled with mild OCD and severe depression. My mental state was sharply declining, and I reached a point where I was beginning to have persecutory delusions. I was in school for about a year before my C's turned into failing grades. After two quarters of failing grades, I was dismissed. I took months off of school and worked in a bio lab and in the service industry before returning, only to mess up in my courses once again and receive failing grades. I continued onwards and received B's and C's in my next few courses. At this point, I was walking a tight line with the school, and was at risk of not having a chance to return at all if I continued to slip up academically. I simply did not invest in myself for all those years; I had become suicidal and I was completely apathetic to any future aspirations because I did not plan to have a future at all. I had become such a passive person in my own life. Regardless, this apathy was paired with an overwhelming level of stress and shut down. I began to experience chest pain from the level of anxiety I was experiencing on a daily basis for years surrounding my academic failings. I would go on walks because I didn't trust myself to be home; I was tempted each day to take the entirety of my roommates' pill bottle to end the suffering and deep shame I had felt.

I took some more time off, afraid to continue and further jeopardize myself academically, but also afraid of the way I had become a danger to myself. During my time off, I moved back home with family. I worked a job that was incredibly rewarding, and I really started to consciously address my mental health issues. I began seeing a therapist that helped me immensely. I know it probably sounds confusing that it had taken me so long to do so, but in the midst of my severe depression, I couldn't bring myself to take the steps to take care of myself. I lost years of my life in this haze of mental illness.

As of lately, between my therapy appointments and my coming home, something has shifted in me. I feel as if I have woken up from this bad and long nightmare. This time around, my time off has made all the difference. I returned and changed my major and took my last 12 classes and received only A's in them. I also just recently began volunteering for the Crisis Text Line 5 months ago. Depression took so much of me for four years, and it has been rewarding to give back to and hear the stories of others who have struggled with their own mental health struggles and crises.

I will be beginning a volunteer program at a hospital this fall, and I also have just been offered an unpaid medical assistant/scribe internship this fall with a doctor in the area, which I will look into taking if I cannot find a paid position. I have been emailing professors to see if I can find a lab to do research in this year, hopeful that one of them will not request to see my transcript, or will take me in despite my grades.

I am immensely grateful for my time in college, and I recognize that the struggles I have faced along the way have shaped me into a less arrogant and more empathetic person. These years have been a lesson for me in many ways. However, I am worried for the dreams that I have potentially lost through my pervasive academic failures. I do not know that future efforts will be enough to combat the depth of my failure. I had written medical school off as something that was now out of reach due to my failings given how competitive the admissions process is, but in speaking with a doctor friend recently, he heard my story and rather than look down on it, told me that it was incredibly inspirational to him, and encouraged me to continue onwards. I don't know that I see it this way; I see my journey as an absolute mess and embarrassment.

In posting this, I suppose my intention is to see if others, upon hearing my story, think this is still a worthwhile pursuit and to seek advice as to the best ways to approach attempting to continue in a pursuit of a medical school admission (what kind of extracurriculars should I be pursuing, how should I tell my story, etc). I am wondering in particular if I should look to applying to a post-bacc program, a one year master's program in a hard science, a special master's program, etc. I am not sure if a post-bacc program would benefit me; I had received all A's in B's in the pre-med courses aside from biochem/biochem lab, which I received C's in.

I finished my time at UCLA with a 2.7 GPA. I had a 3.71 in community college. Because I had completed a bit more units in community college, my cumulative (all institution) GPA is a 3.28. I have recently taken the AAMC free practice MCAT exam and received a 507 on it without studying. It has been years since I have taken the pre-med courses however, and I do believe that in reviewing material over the course of this year that I can improve this score. I have recently purchased an MCAT review book set and plan to go through it this upcoming year.

Any advice or insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read about my academic journey.

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First of all thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad to see the growth you have shown.

So if I'm understanding your post correctly, your pre-req grades are good (excepting the C in Biochem)? And the worse grades were in upper-level courses?

I think it would be useful to get a # for science GPA; you can follow a guide to estimating your science GPA here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7761/download. In this I would count any courses that could be classified as biology, chemistry, physics or math — you may want to reach out to UCLA's pre-health office to see if you can get some help on calculating this number; it would also be wise to talk with them in general about your situation. I'd also contact the UCLA registrar to see if you can get a retroactive withdrawal on the failures.

The appropriate course of action here might depend a little bit on what that science GPA comes out as. If it's higher than your overall GPA of 3.28 you might be okay if you apply very broadly (probably a mostly DO list) and can demonstrate strength in other aspects of your application, namely your MCAT (I'd shoot for a 510 at bare minimum, and a 515 to be safe), then you might be okay. But if you took a lot of science coursework at UCLA and/or your science GPA is significantly lower than that 3.28, then you might benefit from an SMP-style program, which you can read more about here: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

No matter what, my first course of action here would be checking in with the UCLA advisors

EDIT: 1 other question - when you say that you were "dismissed" can you clarify what the specific action was? Academic suspension?
 
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Hello all. My path in college was a bit unconventional and personal, and I will try to share it to my best ability below.

I was a very gifted student beginning in elementary school and all through high school; in elementary school, I was always two years ahead in my projected reading and math levels, and I thus was able to skip a year of math early on in school. It was a lifelong dream of mine to be a doctor. In high school, I shadowed a surgeon for a year. I went to community college my first two years of school; there, I took 22 classes and received 17 A's, 5 B's. I worked incredibly hard to knock all these classes out in two years while working 20 hours a week; I studied day and night and I very often would set the high on my exams back then. I knocked out my pre-med requirements during this time (all except for the biochem courses). The summer of 2020, I did an REU internship with a chemistry professor, but due to the state of the world, it was conducted in a remote format and I thus did not gain proper experience from it. I began to experience a burnout and the beginnings of a depression during this time.

In the fall of 2020, I transferred to UCLA. At this point, my burnout and depression had begun to worsen significantly. The isolation in quarantine was beginning to really affect me. I lived in a home with my domestically abusive and alcoholic father (who I have PTSD from living with), and I struggled with mild OCD and severe depression. My mental state was sharply declining, and I reached a point where I was beginning to have persecutory delusions. I was in school for about a year before my C's turned into failing grades. After two quarters of failing grades, I was dismissed. I took months off of school and worked in a bio lab and in the service industry before returning, only to mess up in my courses once again and receive failing grades. I continued onwards and received B's and C's in my next few courses. At this point, I was walking a tight line with the school, and was at risk of not having a chance to return at all if I continued to slip up academically. I simply did not invest in myself for all those years; I had become suicidal and I was completely apathetic to any future aspirations because I did not plan to have a future at all. I had become such a passive person in my own life. Regardless, this apathy was paired with an overwhelming level of stress and shut down. I began to experience chest pain from the level of anxiety I was experiencing on a daily basis for years surrounding my academic failings. I would go on walks because I didn't trust myself to be home; I was tempted each day to take the entirety of my roommates' pill bottle to end the suffering and deep shame I had felt.

I took some more time off, afraid to continue and further jeopardize myself academically, but also afraid of the way I had become a danger to myself. During my time off, I moved back home with family. I worked a job that was incredibly rewarding, and I really started to consciously address my mental health issues. I began seeing a therapist that helped me immensely. I know it probably sounds confusing that it had taken me so long to do so, but in the midst of my severe depression, I couldn't bring myself to take the steps to take care of myself. I lost years of my life in this haze of mental illness.

As of lately, between my therapy appointments and my coming home, something has shifted in me. I feel as if I have woken up from this bad and long nightmare. This time around, my time off has made all the difference. I returned and changed my major and took my last 12 classes and received only A's in them. I also just recently began volunteering for the Crisis Text Line 5 months ago. Depression took so much of me for four years, and it has been rewarding to give back to and hear the stories of others who have struggled with their own mental health struggles and crises.

I will be beginning a volunteer program at a hospital this fall, and I also have just been offered an unpaid medical assistant/scribe internship this fall with a doctor in the area, which I will look into taking if I cannot find a paid position. I have been emailing professors to see if I can find a lab to do research in this year, hopeful that one of them will not request to see my transcript, or will take me in despite my grades.

I am immensely grateful for my time in college, and I recognize that the struggles I have faced along the way have shaped me into a less arrogant and more empathetic person. These years have been a lesson for me in many ways. However, I am worried for the dreams that I have potentially lost through my pervasive academic failures. I do not know that future efforts will be enough to combat the depth of my failure. I had written medical school off as something that was now out of reach due to my failings given how competitive the admissions process is, but in speaking with a doctor friend recently, he heard my story and rather than look down on it, told me that it was incredibly inspirational to him, and encouraged me to continue onwards. I don't know that I see it this way; I see my journey as an absolute mess and embarrassment.

In posting this, I suppose my intention is to see if others, upon hearing my story, think this is still a worthwhile pursuit and to seek advice as to the best ways to approach attempting to continue in a pursuit of a medical school admission (what kind of extracurriculars should I be pursuing, how should I tell my story, etc). I am wondering in particular if I should look to applying to a post-bacc program, a one year master's program in a hard science, a special master's program, etc. I am not sure if a post-bacc program would benefit me; I had received all A's in B's in the pre-med courses aside from biochem/biochem lab, which I received C's in.

I finished my time at UCLA with a 2.7 GPA. I had a 3.71 in community college. Because I had completed a bit more units in community college, my cumulative (all institution) GPA is a 3.28. I have recently taken the AAMC free practice MCAT exam and received a 507 on it without studying. It has been years since I have taken the pre-med courses however, and I do believe that in reviewing material over the course of this year that I can improve this score. I have recently purchased an MCAT review book set and plan to go through it this upcoming year.

Any advice or insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read about my academic journey.
You can help us help you by asking the questions you want answered without the life story.

EDIT: There are plenty of med schools that reward reinvention. Look up my post on reinvention for premeds
 
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First of all thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad to see the growth you have shown.

So if I'm understanding your post correctly, your pre-req grades are good (excepting the C in Biochem)? And the worse grades were in upper-level courses?

I think it would be useful to get a # for science GPA; you can follow a guide to estimating your science GPA here: https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7761/download. In this I would count any courses that could be classified as biology, chemistry, physics or math — you may want to reach out to UCLA's pre-health office to see if you can get some help on calculating this number; it would also be wise to talk with them in general about your situation. I'd also contact the UCLA registrar to see if you can get a retroactive withdrawal on the failures.

The appropriate course of action here might depend a little bit on what that science GPA comes out as. If it's higher than your overall GPA of 3.28 you might be okay if you apply very broadly (probably a mostly DO list) and can demonstrate strength in other aspects of your application, namely your MCAT (I'd shoot for a 510 at bare minimum, and a 515 to be safe), then you might be okay. But if you took a lot of science coursework at UCLA and/or your science GPA is significantly lower than that 3.28, then you might benefit from an SMP-style program, which you can read more about here: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

No matter what, my first course of action here would be checking in with the UCLA advisors

EDIT: 1 other question - when you say that you were "dismissed" can you clarify what the specific action was? Academic suspension?
Hello, thank you for your response. Yes, in CC I had taken all the pre-reqs except for biochem/biochem lab. I had received my 5 B's in community college in the three physics series courses (my worst subject) and then one in bio, one in a math class in spring of 2020 when the pandemic hit. I then received C's in biochem/biochem lab after transferring. My science GPA is pretty low because the classes I messed up in after transferring were mostly STEM classes (since I was originally a STEM major). I just calculated that my CC science GPA was a 3.58, and my UCLA one was a 1.7. Together, it comes out to an all-institution science GPA of a 2.87.

To give a bit more context, in coming back at the very end of my degree, I was given no choice but to switch my major due to my pattern of failure in my original one, and I thus wasn't given the opportunity to retake any of the courses I had failed because I was only allowed to take courses for my new major. I also had no choice but to switch into a humanities major (or transfer out, which I decided against) due to some rules/restrictions which I won't get into. I tried many times to retroactively drop the courses I failed (so many times, I should emphasize) but to no avail; the school is very particular about getting those kinds of drops approved, and my circumstances/mental health issues were not a reason that they approved of. Now my student profile is locked since I have completed my time there and no changes can be made to my transcript as far as I know after the completion of my degree.

I finished college with the equivalent of 240+ quarter system units, so I believe a post-bacc would do little to change my undergrad GPA, though it is typically what I hear that people pursue when their undergraduate GPAs are low. I am definitely going to meet with advisors/counselors to gain some insight. Thank you again for your time and response.

Edit: yes, it was an academic suspension of sorts. Really it is a removal of student status, but I was able to come back and attempt coursework to be readmitted under conditions of having to receive satisfactory grades. I was eventually readmitted when I was able to come back and get passing grades in my courses again.
 
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You can help us help you by asking the questions you want answered without the life story.

EDIT: There are plenty of med schools that reward reinvention. Look up my post on reinvention for premeds
Hi, thank you for your response. I share my story in such detail because I want to give a comprehensive overview of it. I apologize if this has offended you. I will look up your post, and I appreciate your help.
 
Hello, thank you for your response. Yes, in CC I had taken all the pre-reqs except for biochem/biochem lab. I had received my 5 B's in community college in the three physics series courses (my worst subject) and then one in bio, one in a math class in spring of 2020 when the pandemic hit. I then received C's in biochem/biochem lab after transferring. My science GPA is pretty low because the classes I messed up in after transferring were mostly STEM classes (since I was originally a STEM major). I just calculated that my CC science GPA was a 3.58, and my UCLA one was a 1.7. Together, it comes out to an all-institution science GPA of a 2.87.

To give a bit more context, in coming back at the very end of my degree, I was given no choice but to switch my major due to my pattern of failure in my original one, and I thus wasn't given the opportunity to retake any of the courses I had failed because I was only allowed to take courses for my new major. I also had no choice but to switch into a humanities major (or transfer out, which I decided against) due to some rules/restrictions which I won't get into. I tried many times to retroactively drop the courses I failed (so many times, I should emphasize) but to no avail; the school is very particular about getting those kinds of drops approved, and my circumstances/mental health issues were not a reason that they approved of. Now my student profile is locked since I have completed my time there and no changes can be made to my transcript as far as I know after the completion of my degree.

I finished college with the equivalent of 240+ quarter system units, so I believe a post-bacc would do little to change my undergrad GPA, though it is typically what I hear that people pursue when their undergraduate GPAs are low. I am definitely going to meet with advisors/counselors to gain some insight. Thank you again for your time and response.

Edit: yes, it was an academic suspension of sorts. Really it is a removal of student status, but I was able to come back and attempt coursework to be readmitted under conditions of having to receive satisfactory grades. I was eventually readmitted when I was able to come back and get passing grades in my courses again.
Yeah, I would still start by asking the advisors and assess from there. A 2.87 sGPA is going to be hard to fight uphill against. An SMP may be a good call for you but I'd still read Goro's post to see the positives and negatives for it.
 
Yeah, I would still start by asking the advisors and assess from there. A 2.87 sGPA is going to be hard to fight uphill against. An SMP may be a good call for you but I'd still read Goro's post to see the positives and negatives for it.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Yeah, I think from what I understand an SMP is more impactful than a post-bacc in my situation given the amount of units I have accrued over the years. Quite honestly, I'm worried I won't even have the stats to get into an SMP program with my GPA though...
 
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Yeah, I think from what I understand an SMP is more impactful than a post-bacc in my situation given the amount of units I have accrued over the years. Quite honestly, I'm worried I won't even have the stats to get into an SMP program with my GPA though...
If not, then do a DIY postbac
 
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Research won’t help you.
Although an SMP or DIY postbacc won’t change your overall GPA much, getting a year’s worth of A grades would demonstrate your ability to work hard and do well.
Any clinical experience (paid or volunteer) is good.
Get as much non-clinical volunteering as you can.
Study like crazy for the MCAT and don’t take it until you are confident you can do your best.
Because your grades aren’t good, it’s especially important not to rush your application, even if it takes 2 or 3 years to optimize it.
 
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Research won’t help you.
Although an SMP or DIY postbacc won’t change your overall GPA much, getting a year’s worth of A grades would demonstrate your ability to work hard and do well.
Any clinical experience (paid or volunteer) is good.
Get as much non-clinical volunteering as you can.
Study like crazy for the MCAT and don’t take it until you are confident you can do your best.
Because your grades aren’t good, it’s especially important not to rush your application, even if it takes 2 or 3 years to optimize it.
OP already has a year's worth of A grades. This is one of those times when an all-or-nothing gamble on an SMP affiliated with a decent US MD school (read: not CNU) might be worth the gamble. As they are, if they do well on the MCAT and their ECs are up to snuff they can go DO.

I will say this - medical school is challenging and mental health issues are one of the bigger reasons people wind up dropping out of medical school. SMPs are challenging, but it's better to wash out of one of those than to get six months or a year into med school and then get your butt kicked by MH problems. On the other hand, you aren't living with an abusive alcoholic, which is definitely beneficial for your mental health.

Good luck with everything. See what your therapist thinks.
 
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Research won’t help you.
Although an SMP or DIY postbacc won’t change your overall GPA much, getting a year’s worth of A grades would demonstrate your ability to work hard and do well.
Any clinical experience (paid or volunteer) is good.
Get as much non-clinical volunteering as you can.
Study like crazy for the MCAT and don’t take it until you are confident you can do your best.
Because your grades aren’t good, it’s especially important not to rush your application, even if it takes 2 or 3 years to optimize it.
I wanted to kind of build on what @LeaveNoTrace has said in that I do have a year's worth of A grades at the moment in the final 12 courses in my undergrad degree (and a single additional CC course I took afterwards); however, these grades were achieved in humanities courses after I had switched into a humanities major. Is it worthwhile then to begin a DIY post-bacc in which I take community college STEM courses? I can enroll in the upcoming fall semester and begin a series of courses if so. I know it won't make a dent in my undergraduate GPA by much, but would additional A grades be sufficient enough to showcase some improvement and stability? Would it benefit me to do so before later applying to SMP programs?

Tagging others in this thread to hopefully receive their insight as well: @Goro @LizzyM @AJS59
 
Just as an aside relevant to the topic, I just got an essay published in this compilation run by the non-profit Pager Publications (founded by two doctors, I think). Feel free to grab your own copy and consider the thought questions after each essay.


We don't have a copy of your transcripts, but reinventors should understand whether schools on their list put much more weight on your most recent courses, including the science rigor represented. It's fine that your journey is unconventional, but every plane has to land on a runway at the same angle and speed, regardless of how powerful your engine is or how heavy your payload is. If the runway is too short for the plane, the pilot must find a different runway to land that accommodates it. In the end, you have to show us you can land the plane by taking the same classes, similar experiences, and similar service motivation as most of the other planes that land on the runway (go to that medical school).

Does it matter if you take classes at CCs versus UGs or postbacs? Some of us know the challenges, but you must show you can thrive with the cards you are dealt. We know nothing about where you live, but your only recourse may be taking CC or online courses. Fine. You have received a lot of great advice on how to land the plane from the experts here. Execute the plan if this is what you want to do.

Leslie Nielsen Good Luck GIF by filmeditor
 
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I wanted to kind of build on what @LeaveNoTrace has said in that I do have a year's worth of A grades at the moment in the final 12 courses in my undergrad degree (and a single additional CC course I took afterwards); however, these grades were achieved in humanities courses after I had switched into a humanities major. Is it worthwhile then to begin a DIY post-bacc in which I take community college STEM courses? I can enroll in the upcoming fall semester and begin a series of courses if so. I know it won't make a dent in my undergraduate GPA by much, but would additional A grades be sufficient enough to showcase some improvement and stability? Would it benefit me to do so before later applying to SMP programs?

Tagging others in this thread to hopefully receive their insight as well: @Goro @LizzyM @AJS59
Additional good grades in sciences will convince Adcoms that you can handle med school. So yes, you still need an SMP or DIY post.bac
 
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