Is it realistic to say I want to become a private psychologist?

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Beckerich

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I was going to say shrink but then I realised that most people see that as psychiatrist.

Any way, I'm doing BSC biological sciences with psychology in september and after my undergraduate i hope to do my post grad in clinical psychology.

I was just wondering how realistic it is to say that after you get your doctorate, which is long hard work I know, that you will become a private psychologist?

I mean psychiatrists seem to go private, so can't a psychologist do it with the same success?
 
it is a highly realistic endeavor.

division 42 of the APA is the psychologists in independent practice division.

the only area of concern that i can see would be that your salary expectations are realistic.
 
hey, what are the salaries for a private psychologist? Some say its very poor, some say it can be lucrative. For instance here in ireland I've looked on a careers website that said working for the state health service gets you 50k a year, some I would think private would be more, after many years of work of course.

But I know that a psychologist makes half that of a psychiatrist, although I'm sure private psychologists who have been doing it for years would know how to charge as well
 
Can someone shed some light into the delusions some might have about future salaries in private practice (myself being one). Is it just that people aren't realistic about how many patients they will be able to get? Or how much they will be able to charge? I guess my thinking is that the hitch must be getting a steady flow of patients, as you would be able to charge whatever you want, right?

I have just seen some numbers floating around on the board, ranging from 50,000 to 75,000 as an average, which seems puzzling to me considering we are getting our doctorates and not staying in academia.

*MOD NOTE: I merged the two threads. -t*
 
many do go into private practice
 
Depends completely on location, ability to obtain steady patient flow, and marketing skills/ability to gain referrals. Also bear in mind that the stats available for private practice salaries are skewed and tend to grossly underestimate salaries due to the large number of people who don't work full time (i.e. women who cut back on hours and work maybe 3 days/week still count as full-time private practice in the salary surveys). So, long story short, assuming you get a patient flow of around 20/week (4-5 per day), you should easily make over 100k if you're in a large metropolitan area. Most of my colleagues who actually put the effort in to working full-time in private practice are in the 80-150k range, so I am always puzzled when I see the figures in the APA surveys. Again, there are many factors that skew the data, so don't be alarmed by those figures. As long as you are willing to put in the effort towards marketing and establishing yourself in the community, you'll do fine.
 
See the other post regarding salaries, but long story short if you're full-time in private practice expect to make close to 6 figures after a few years of groundwork. Most psychologists don't charge as much as psychiatrists, but 140-160/hr is the going rate in most major cities. Assuming you're seeing 15-20 patients per week (which isn't much), that puts you over 100k already. So yes, it's realistic, and tends to pay much better than salaried positions. However, it's always a roll of the dice, and if self-promotion and marketing is not your forte, it can be difficult. For better or for worse, business savvy is probably more important in terms of having a lucrative practice than actually being a great clinician. Sad but true.
 
It is highly variable....on location, # of hours work, if you take insurance, area of expertise, etc. I know people who live in the northeast and make $150k, but I also know people in the midwest who make $50k. With private practice therapy you are pretty much stuck with: X Billable Hours * Rate - Overhead = $. Many people work part-time in PP, which is what I plan on doing.

Depending how efficiently you can do assessments (or have techs do the basics and you write the reports), you can make extra $$ that way.

I'll only be doing this for a small case load on a cash pay basis, so my hourly rate will be higher, but having that project out to a full caseload will take much more work, and the actualized hourly rate will go down when you factor in associated costs with attaining and maintaining a full case load.
 
Thank you for all of your responses. I was confused a bit because while I was researching between the PsyD. and the PhD., I got the opportunity to speak with some PsyD's, one in particular at an Evanston, IL private practice. He said he sees around 10 clients a day! I wasn't sure if that was the norm, but he said it's a bit high for most people.
He also mentioned that he doesn't mess with insurance companies. Is avoiding the hassles of insurance companies a risk to losing clients? I assumed since he lived in an affluent neighborhood that he had the luxury of doing this, but I just wanted to check and see everyone's thought on avoiding insurance companies, and how that plays out in the end. Thanks.
 
Avoid insurance companies if you can. However, that's hard to do when you are just starting out. I'd recommend doing a mix of insurance and fee for service patients when you're beginning in order to maximize your client load. Once you get better established after a couple of years, start taking steps to transition to cash only patients. Introduce a sliding scale for clients who can't afford your full rate, but I wouldn't mess with insurance companies if you don't have to.
 
Many people starting out choose (or are forced to) take insurance because many people can't pay out of pocket. If you live in an affluent area and/or a therapy friendly place, it can be easier. My plan is to build a cash pay practice while working elsewhere. I'll lose out on #'s, but I'd rather get paid what I think my time is worth, instead of taking a fraction of it with insurance.
 
Just for the sake of clarification...

The CMS rates for Psychology services are listed below. Most commercial carriers will be in this range for reimbursement of services:

Intake - $133.52 per hour
Ind Therapy - $86.77-94 per 45 mins (varies slightly by state)

Assessment

Psych Testing - $97.02 per unit
Neuropsych Testing - $129.99 per unit

I know there is a real desire to do cash only practices, but this will be difficult starting out. In addition, if you are a physician referral based practice, it will greatly annoy your referrals sources if you only take their cash patients. The best algorithm for private practice is..

25 patients per week at $108 per average unit billed = $2700 per week gross
35% to overhead = $945
$1755 net per week X 50 weeks -$87,750 per year.
The APA Practice Survey from 2007 stated
Private Practice (5-9 years exp) - $94,186
Group Practice (5-9 years exp) - $88,700
Thus the equation is pretty consistent with individuals working in commercial insurance.

As a final thought, I still find it a bit disturbing that we expect our dentists, doctors, surgeons, allied health professionals to take our insurance when we go to their office; but psychologist feel they should not have to. Most people pay between 3-6K per year for their family insurance and have 250-1000 dollar deductables on top of that. I think it creates quite a burden for them when we don't take their insurance. Just my opinion.
 
this thread is great, im a student in ireland and no one seems to know this stuff and any psychologists I asked were very quiet about it, but why exactly, especially in the US, do you want to avoid insurance companies as the other guy said, we all use them for doctors and dentists etc..?

We just dont have as much private health insurance in Ireland so I'm not sure what they would do to annoy you
 
As a final thought, I still find it a bit disturbing that we expect our dentists, doctors, surgeons, allied health professionals to take our insurance when we go to their office; but psychologist feel they should not have to. Most people pay between 3-6K per year for their family insurance and have 250-1000 dollar deductables on top of that. I think it creates quite a burden for them when we don't take their insurance. Just my opinion.

In truth, that expectation exists because you will tend to be referred to dentists, physicians, et al who are already in your network because the referral itself comes from someone in the network. Unlike an emergency department, a physician is not compelled to see or treat you and may choose not to based on the plan in which you are enrolled.

Consider also that most physician practices have a well-established and efficient method to chase reimbursement. Similar set ups for psychologists tend to be cost prohibitive and as a result, fewer psychology practices can afford the up-front cash. Next, the very act of chasing reimbursement requires either you hire someone to do it or you use your own billable hours to do so. Small or single-practitioner practice can't afford either.

As for the burden - it is unfortunate but unavoidable in our current reimbursement structure. We are responding in the most sensible way to the multiple demands of the profession; patient need, reimbursement trends and our own debts. The creators of this imbalance are NOT the clinicians.
 
:laugh:

Do you really expect to get x amount of clients all ready and able to pay x amount of cash per session?

Wouldn't you expect that the clients who are more dysfunctional would be dysfunctional to the point that they wouldn't be able to pay x amount of cash per session?

I suppose you think the government / insurance would pay... I wouldn't bet on it...

Have you thought about such things as sliding scales (taking patients on the basis of what is feasible to them) or such?

Why are you getting into this field again? If you want to make money may I reccomend being an engineer specialising in damx and levys and the like given the state of global warming...
 
Why are you getting into this field again? If you want to make money may I reccomend being an engineer specialising in damx and levys and the like given the state of global warming...

Only if the government actually decides to spend the money to repair said bridges, roads, and dams. 🙄
 
Let's not forget that most insurance policies (stateside) currently pay mental health care as a limited benefit (e.g., 50% ucr w/ a max # of visits or overall amount per year) compared to "other" health care providers who are eligible for 80-90% ucr without such stipulations. Makes a large difference in your income, particularly when your patients refuse to pay the other 50% because they do not understand why their insurance is only paying half of their bill to begin with.
 
Would these estimates be the same for an LCSW?

If not, whats the difference?
 
I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but I'll reply anyway. 😀
:laugh:

Do you really expect to get x amount of clients all ready and able to pay x amount of cash per session?

Yes.

I'll be working in a niche area (eating disorders), which tends to get a lot of referrals, at least the quality clinicians. I've talked to colleagues who have setup practices and they are doing quite well with a cash pay model. I'm only going to do therapy part time, so I'll have less of a concern with 'filling my appointments'. I'd rather spend my time providing quality service and not trying to drum up business.

Wouldn't you expect that the clients who are more dysfunctional would be dysfunctional to the point that they wouldn't be able to pay x amount of cash per session?

Much like my old consulting work....there are a range of providers out there, and I'm going to set my fees and work with the population that feels that it is a fair fee.

Why are you getting into this field again? If you want to make money may I reccomend being an engineer specialising in damx and levys and the like given the state of global warming...

Making money is not a primary concern (I would have made more staying in my previous career), but making money *IS* still on my list. Many clinicians get hung up in the $, and I'm being pragmatic about it....as I need to make a living. I may have a slight sliding scale, but that is TBD.

A mentor of sorts gave me some great advice: People pay him for his time, training, and expertise, so whether it is an hour of his time doing therapy, an assessment, or consultation....it is still an hour. He generally charges a flat rate and goes from there. I've found using a blended rate works best for consulting,and fixed pricing can used in other areas like therapy and assessments. I'm sorry if this comes off a bit callous, but this is a profession....just like being an accountant, plumber, or teacher, though we for some reason feel like we should discount the price of our work because it is in the helping profession.
 
Let's not forget that most insurance policies (stateside) currently pay mental health care as a limited benefit (e.g., 50% ucr w/ a max # of visits or overall amount per year) compared to "other" health care providers who are eligible for 80-90% ucr without such stipulations. Makes a large difference in your income, particularly when your patients refuse to pay the other 50% because they do not understand why their insurance is only paying half of their bill to begin with.

Would these estimates be the same for an LCSW?

If not, whats the difference?

I'm curious about this as well.

It's been my experience (both working for managed care and as a provider on several panels) that there are typically three fee schedules: 1. MD/DO get reimbursed more than 2. PhD/PsyD who get reimbursed more than 3. LCSW/LPC/LMFT. Sometimes there's a fourth with psych nurse practitioners.

When you choose to participate on a panel, you agree to the appropriate fee schedule for your license- considered the usual and customary (UCR) charge. As an in-network provider, you are not permitted per your contract to bill for the difference between the UCR and your billed fee.

Example: Let's say I charge $100 per 50 minute hour and am on panel for HMO A. My contract with HMO A is that I will accept $60/hour. Client A comes in to see me, and pays his copay. I bill HMO A and will receive $60 minus the copay received. So if copay is 20, I get 40 from HMO A. Copay is 30? I get 30- etc etc etc. I eat the $40 difference between HMO A's UCR and my $100 fee. If I attempt to recover that difference, I am in violation of my contract and can be removed from the panel, face legal issues, etc.

When you are not on a panel and see a member who wants to use their out of network benefits, you can recoup the difference because you are not under contract.

Example: I still charge $100, and am not on panel with HMO B. Someone with HMO B comes in(actually, I guess that wouldn't be "hmo" would it? probably ppo or pos, but I digress..) and wants me to bill their insurance. Out of network benefits are almost always at a higher cost to the member, and often there's a deductible to be met first. So let's say deductible of $500.. HMO B gets a bill for the first 5 sessions and no reimbursement is given to anyone. At session 6, the benefit will kick in. Let's say it's "70% of UCR after the deductible is met", and that HMO B has the same $60 UCR as HMO A does. Starting with session 6, HMO B will pay out 70% ($42) of the $60 UCR, leaving a $58 difference between what they've paid and my billed charge. I may bill the patient for the remaining $58. For out of network, I took my cue from a psychiatrist I work with- I collect the full fee at the time of service, then request that the reimbursement be sent directly to the patient. If it comes back to me, then their account is credited.

Of note:

UCR is set separately by each insurance company, although many do use CMS guidelines. I have a different reimbursement level for each company I work with, and am in the midst of re-credentialing with several of them right now (3 year intervals). I'm closing my practice in a couple of months anyway, but have had the luxury of deciding which companies to recredential with based on a) how much paperwork they require of me and b) reimbursement rate. I'm happy to say two companies' recredentialing packets have gone directly into the vertical file.
 
Let's not forget that most insurance policies (stateside) currently pay mental health care as a limited benefit (e.g., 50% ucr w/ a max # of visits or overall amount per year) compared to "other" health care providers who are eligible for 80-90% ucr without such stipulations. Makes a large difference in your income, particularly when your patients refuse to pay the other 50% because they do not understand why their insurance is only paying half of their bill to begin with.

To clarify my earlier post's example (if there is/was any confusion): If the benefits were 50% ucr, then typically the patient's coinsurance (not copay) or responsibility is 50% ucr, so the provider can bill for that amount. This will (typically) not be the same as 50% of whatever the provider bills the insurance company (see pingouin's post for detailed explanation of ucr).



It's been my experience (both working for managed care and as a provider on several panels) that there are typically three fee schedules: 1. MD/DO get reimbursed more than 2. PhD/PsyD who get reimbursed more than 3. LCSW/LPC/LMFT. Sometimes there's a fourth with psych nurse practitioners.

It should be noted that this is going to vary by insurance company. There are some insurance companies (in my experience working for them for a good number of years) that will reimburse ALL mental health providers at the same rate IF you are an eligible mental health care provider. Furthermore, "eligible" will also vary by insurance company and even within different policies offered by a single insurance company. I know of companies that will not cover you as a mental health care provider unless you are a licensed MD/PhD/PsyD, with few exceptions made for LCSW/LPC IF an employer has opted to pay extra for that particular benefit. Otherwise, individuals on a "private/individual" policy are out-of-luck and limited to the MD/PhD.

Check your policy before you seek mental health care (or any type of care for that matter), and verify that your clients/patients understand their benefits. 'Tis amazing the number of people who think that all of their benefits pay the same regardless. "I have a '$x' copay, so that's all I have to pay whereever I go" is often incorrect.
 
Tony Puentes is the Practice Dir. Rep from APA and his power point slides are available throught the apa or nan website. This will show you how rates are assigned to all practitioners. It is a combination of training, job difficulty, etc. Psychology is .5% of physicians. MA level is considered mid-level practitioner and thus paid less.

Pterion's point sounds much more like opinion to me than "truth". I run a 100% physician referral practice and will not take self referrals. I am not aware of an in-network referral policy in mental health, but if you have a reference for your belief I'd be happy to consider it.

Medicaid is the only carrier I am aware of that pays at 50% of the CMS designated UCR, Medicare, as mentioned is 80%. I reviewed the 38 panels I participate in and found the spread to be very narrow around medicare, with a couple closer to medicaid, but MDC was by far the lowest. Medicare ranked 12th of the 38, so I think the CMS numbers are the best guideline.

Pterion also mentioned concerns over UC providers. The national average for medical billing is 10%, with mental health closer to 8%, this can include all of your credentialling for about $400 per year or $40 per panel. Thus, for mental health the cost contribution is minimal and not upfront, but rather backloaded and the reason I estimated 35% for overhead, when rent is closer to 5%. Most will need a partial office assistent, materials, computer and phone. Though, in truth these can be done to scale as well. Again, Pterion, if you have other sources, I'd like to hear them.
 
Yeah. Demographics for eating disorders are a little different from the typical demographic (eating disorders are more prevalent in wealthy populations). If you want to make money that is probably a well chosen niche. With respect to clients 'choosing not to pay' it might be legitimate to wonder about what the client actually can afford. I understand that it isn't a charity... But I am surprised that people aren't thinking about having a certain number of sliding scale slots...
 
Have you thought about such things as sliding scales (taking patients on the basis of what is feasible to them) or such?

Why are you getting into this field again? If you want to make money may I reccomend being an engineer specialising in damx and levys and the like given the state of global warming...

I'm actually with you... I would have no interest in working exclusively with the kind of patient who can pay for weekly therapy sessions out of pocket. Not my demographic! Not consistent with my personal values either (not a slam on anyone else; we all place different emphasis on different factors, but for me providing therapy only to patients who can afford to pay entirely out of pocket would be morally problematic).
 
Ahhh managed care.

After seeing and hearing about all the crap people have to deal with this in both psychology and medicine, I can't fault people for not wanting to deal with insurance companies. Heck, its one of the reasons I plan to avoid traditional clinical work altogether😉

Depends largely on the demographic of interest, but personally, I don't find anything wrong with not having sliding scales as long as you can pull it off and still have clients. Of course, this assumes you are in an area where you are not the sole MHP for a large region. As long as they are only being denied treatment "with you" and not treatment of any kind as a result. I'm a big believer in doing community service, but work time is work time, and I think letting the market and your skill set determine your wage is fine.
 
Can someone give us an idea - what would be approximately the average rate of in-network insurance reimbursement for Master level psychotherapist, also, what are the monthly expenses (approximately). Thanks!
 
I imagine folks would need more info for monthly expenses, though insurance reimbursement varies somewhat by region as well. Are you totally solo or sharing office space with other practitioners? As rent is probably a sizable portion of this, where you are practicing would also matter - obviously expenses in Manhattan would be drastically different from expenses in Montana.
 
Don't expect that your patients won't notice how much you care about them solely in virtue of their ability to pay. On the upside... People with anorexia are likely to consider this only too reasonable / justified

(aka: how is this attitude toward them likely to help vs. harm them)?
 
Don't expect that your patients won't notice how much you care about them solely in virtue of their ability to pay. On the upside... People with anorexia are likely to consider this only too reasonable / justified

(aka: how is this attitude toward them likely to help vs. harm them)?

It isn't going to be that black and white. I understand what you are asking, but it is unfair to the clinician to hold them to a higher standard than their accountant, lawyer, physician, etc...because of people's implied assumptions about the therapeutic relationship.

Each of the professions above have rates for services provided....therapy is the same way. People seem to get hung up on the, "they don't care about me, because if they did, they would only charge me X amount", which is a problematic position to encourage. By cutting your rates you are also giving the message that your services are worthy of being discounted and that their issues are somehow 'more' or worthy of more attention than other patients. This is a dicey area with any patient, but if you want to understand the full effect, apply this situation to a patient who is borderline. This is a PROBLEMATIC situation in the best circumstances, and a complete nightmare in less than ideal situations.

I don't think less of a person because of financial reasons, but this is also my livelihood, and I wouldn't expect them to cut their rates. As long as I have a clear delineation between business issues and therapy issues, then it should work fine.
 
Pterion's point sounds much more like opinion to me than "truth". I run a 100% physician referral practice and will not take self referrals. I am not aware of an in-network referral policy in mental health, but if you have a reference for your belief I'd be happy to consider it.

Really? All third party payors have contingencies for in-network and out of network referrals. If you subscribe to BCBS, they will have their preferred providers with steeply reduced or no coverage for providers not in their network - not to pick on the blues, every payor does this. I am referring to physician to psychologist, but psych to psych must be similar. Just look on the back of your insurance card. If I am misunderstanding your point, please correct me.

...I reviewed the 38 panels I participate in....
Wow. I don't personally know any psychologists in this area - particularly those in independent practice - who are on this many panels. Do you personally do CAQH or individual panel reviews?

8%, this can include all of your credentialling for about $400 per year or $40 per panel. Thus, for mental health the cost contribution is minimal and not upfront, but rather backloaded and the reason I estimated 35% for overhead, when rent is closer to 5%. Most will need a partial office assistent, materials, computer and phone. Though, in truth these can be done to scale as well. Again, Pterion, if you have other sources, I'd like to hear them.
I don't have a journal to refer you to. If you can do it in <35% overhead, accounting for assistance or your own loss of billable hours in panel review and chasing payment for services rendered, then rock on. I believe it can be done, but not without experience, partners or other forms of income to your practice.
 
Pterion, I think you are right something is getting lost in translation. I took your post to mean that when I (or anyone in the field) made a referral, I only referred to somone in panel. I don't always know who is in panel in our area. Typically, I refer based on need for specialty skill. They can refuse to see them because of an inability to pay or the patient can pay out of pocket or use out of network benefits if they choose. My issue is the practice of telling new clinicains that there is something so special about psychologists that they should not be expected to take insurance like most other health care providers. I understand T4C's points about not wanting to discount services. But, you can't expect reasonable physicians to keep sending you their cash patients when you refuse all the commercial carrier patients. They will just find other sources to refer to. This is what I mean by "annoying" them.

Also, I don't think that anyone on the list would say that neuro or cardiothorasic surgeons are "trivialized" by discounting fees because of plan participation and frankly none of us could afford that surgery without insurance. If people look at the UCRs I have provided and think those rates are too low then they have been accurately appraised (from my perspective) and can make a reasonable choice. I do think this information needs to be made available to them. I grow weary of faculty teaching students the evils of insurance when they were often the same ones that bled the indemnity plans dry in the 1980s and caused this problem to begin with.

Our practice has 12 neurosurgeons, 14 neurologists and 5 neuropsychologists. Our overhead includes rent for 7 office rooms and three nurse stations, plus general office space, testing materials and 4 psychometricians and 4.5 medical assistants. We pay the same rate per square foot as surgery so you could clearly do it cheaper than $52K per year in office space and $200k in support fees. Even at these rates, rent, materials and support make up 30% of our total collected fees. Thus, they are below the 35% I quoted. We are paperless, all webchart, do all our own billing and collections (59% of billed) and pay $400 per doctor per year for all credentialing and maintainance for all panels and three hospitals. This is what can be done in neuro, though the rates are not wildly different for clinical.
 
Aha. Got ya. I agree that the referrals will dry up if you are a cash-and-carry outfit. I also agree on the point that psychologists are not so special that they should not be expected to take any third party payor. I missed that point before.
I grow weary of faculty teaching students the evils of insurance when they were often the same ones that bled the indemnity plans dry in the 1980s and caused this problem to begin with.
I love this. It does tend to be a revisionist presentation of the evolution of things. As you know, I could easily say the same of physician/instructors in medical school.....

I have a high school chum who is a medical practice management consultant now. He has always said that more than 30% overhead is not a well-run organization. Many physician practices fall into this problem by poorly planning for market changes and reduced collection of accounts payable. Oddly, it seems to be more common in primary care. Your description of the multidisciplinary, paperless office is ideal (on many levels), and unfortunately uncommon in my experience both by medicine and psychology. The better run psychology practices I have encountered have that careful accounting of overhead you describe that make them solvent.

I believe both medicine and psychology do a disservice to their students by not better preparing them for practice management issues post-training.
 
I believe both medicine and psychology do a disservice to their students by not better preparing them for practice management issues post-training.

Agreed.

Some of the consulting work I want to do is around the business side of psychology, particularly building out multi-practice offices. Most psychologists (and other health professionals) are never taught the business skills required to run a successful practice, and their bottom line suffers.
 
How much will you earn realistically as a private psychologist? I have the motivation, passion, work ethic, and skills to go for the degree but not the money. I am in the process of being shocked and dismayed by fees for graduate school, I live in California and have been going to public/state Colleges here for the last three years. I have been working to pay my college fees; I also got a Cal Grant and so far have I only a small debt. The idea of having a huge debt from graduate school scares me. I mean some of these schools cost $20,000 a year! 😱I doubt I will be able to stay in California for graduate school if I want to go to a state/public university because competition is so high. I have looked into out of state schools but the out of state tuition is so high I almost think I would be better off going for a degree from a private college in the Sacramento or San Francisco area because I have family I could live with virtually rent free in those areas. Basically will having a degree allowing me to practice clinical psychology with the goal of having my own private practice pay off in the long run financially because if I am going to be acquiring thousands of dollars in debt from school loans I want to make sure it is worth it. :luck:
 
How much will you earn realistically as a private psychologist? I have the motivation, passion, work ethic, and skills to go for the degree but not the money. I am in the process of being shocked and dismayed by fees for graduate school, I live in California and have been going to public/state Colleges here for the last three years. I have been working to pay my college fees; I also got a Cal Grant and so far have I only a small debt. The idea of having a huge debt from graduate school scares me. I mean some of these schools cost $20,000 a year! 😱I doubt I will be able to stay in California for graduate school if I want to go to a state/public university because competition is so high. I have looked into out of state schools but the out of state tuition is so high I almost think I would be better off going for a degree from a private college in the Sacramento or San Francisco area because I have family I could live with virtually rent free in those areas. Basically will having a degree allowing me to practice clinical psychology with the goal of having my own private practice pay off in the long run financially because if I am going to be acquiring thousands of dollars in debt from school loans I want to make sure it is worth it. :luck:

If debt is a big concern to you, stop looking at unfunded programs😉

I think the vast majority of schools charge almost no tuition, and pay you a yearly salary (albeit a small one) on top of that. That doesn't mean you won't have ANY debt since some folks take out additional money to defray cost of living, but depending on the area, your lifestyle, your savings, etc. it isn't always necessary and even when it is, we're talking almost nothing relative to the cost of school itself. Cali seems to have alot of schools that don't fund students, so that might be why you haven't really seen this yet, but that is not at ALL the norm.
 
Thanks, really that’s wonderful news! 😀I am just starting to look into graduate schools in general. I think you are right about Cali because all of their clinical programs ARE ridiculously expensive. What are some colleges that do fund their students? Because I have been surfing college websites but have not seen any evidence of this. I would love to look at their websites.😎 How can you tell if a college is funded or unfunded? But even if it is funded what about out of state tuition? It costs as much to go to a state university outside of California as if does a private school in California. Do they fund those out of state fees too?😕
 
Most schools will pay out of state for the first year, at which point you are expected to transfer your permanent residency to that state and then they will continue to pay in-state tuition. Private schools typically fund as well, so don't think it only applies to state schools. For example, I'm out of state this year. My program is somewhat odd in that they cover most, but technically not all of our tuition. I paid around $2000 all told this year for everything, it'll be about half that in future years since after this summer is over I'll be a Florida resident and get in-state tuition. The department pays me about $18,000 a year, which obviously covers that and my city is pretty cheap so I'm actually able to live (albeit not a life of luxury) off the remainder. I wish they'd just drop our stipend down and give us 100% waivers since it would be MUCH easier for all involved, but that's a story for another day😉

In Cali I know UCLA and UCSD/SDSU are funded. Others may be as well, those are just the two I know. I don't know where to tell you to start....its harder to find unfunded programs than funded ones.

University of Washington, University of Vermont, University of Florida, Virginina Commonwealth, SUNY Buffalo, SUNY Stony Brook, Vanderbilt, Ohio State University, University of Maine, University of Delaware, University of South Florida, University of Montana, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Temple University...that's just a sampling off the list of schools I was considering at some point (didn't even apply to all of them) so its FAR from exhaustive. I could go on for pages....I forget how many accredited programs are in the US, but I can tell you I looked at every single school when I was applying, made a list of places I'd even consider attending (i.e. fully-funded and something vaguely approaching my research interests), and that was a pool of about 80 schools I had to narrow down from. Point is, there are clearly options out there that don't involve a great deal of debt.

As for finding out if they're funded or not, I really don't know what to tell you other than department websites. Most will have some kind of "Graduate school" page, sometimes a "Clinical psychology" section within grad school, and then just a description of the program with some links about what to expect - most have some kind of explanation about funding.
 
😀Wow, that is magnificent to read!! Thank you!! I transferred from a small junior college to UC Davis this January. Now that I have settled in I am begging to explore my options for graduate school and all the signs point toward clinical psychology. I am attempting to find a professor to be my mentor and answer all my questions but having issues finding one. Just looking at basic tuition costs on school websites was scaring me. 😡I guess I needed to dig deeper but your answers have been really reassuring. I know it is possible to go to graduate school now with out taking out an 80,000.00 loan!!! I will be looking at funded programs for Clinical Psychology Phd’s.
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