is it really worth it?

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dee783

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With the high costs of dental school these days (150-300K) and the grueling 4 years to get through it...is it really worth it? It seems like the norm for new grads is to make below six figs and to top it off they often get screwed when associating by the owner dentists, plus no benefits, stress of the job itself, working in such a small area, deep in someone's saliva/blood. Sure , people always say find a job you love doing etc etc. but after working a handful of jobs, some fun, others not so much, I don't think i will love any job. i love spending time with my family, friends, traveling etc. so for me, my job will be a means to support the things i love rather than be the reason for me to get up everyday. So.. I've come to the conclusion that pharmacy is the best healthcare profession to get into, investment wise(you put in little and receive much more in return). Cost of pharm schooling is much lower(especially if you go to to a state school), curriculum seems much more laid back, optional attendance, no lab work, so you have more time during school to live rather than be slaving away for 4 years with only ocassional weekends to live for., much less stress in the working world(less liability), cleaner profession, easy to find a job and travel and work in different regions, guaranteed high income, benefits, more variety... Am I alone in this belief? I don't mean to turn this into a pharm/dent bashing, just wanted to get others' views on this. thanx!
 
I think many people come under the false assumption that out of dental school, they'll be rolling in the big bucks. That's hardly the case. Investment wise, you'd be better off having come out of undergrad and putting in a few good years (assuming you have a decent job) and getting promoted over time. You pick a career because you love what you do, not what you can get back from it. It's not worth 30-40 years of your life being stuck doing a job you absolutely hate.
 
Reality check Pharm vs. Dental from my eys....

Time working: Dentists tend to work fewer hours later in the career
Salary: Again, dentists will average a higher income over time especially with the ability to stay in private practice. Plus, pharmacists make dirt out of school as well.
Family time: Same at worst.
School stress: You're in for some punishment if you think Pharm school sans lab is a cake walk.
Work stress: Push. Working "elbow deep" daily in a strangers mouth or counting out friggin' pills everyday sounds terrible in both cases.

So to answer your post, the pathway to becoming a pharmacist is not easy and the lifestyle of a pharmacist is not superior to the lifestyle of a dentist, just different.
 
so you have more time during school to live rather than be slaving away for 4 years with only ocassional weekends to live for., much less stress in the working world(less liability), cleaner profession, easy to find a job and travel and work in different regions, guaranteed high income, benefits, more variety

All bogus! Thx
 
With the high costs of dental school these days (150-300K) and the grueling 4 years to get through it...is it really worth it? It seems like the norm for new grads is to make below six figs and to top it off they often get screwed when associating by the owner dentists, plus no benefits, stress of the job itself, working in such a small area, deep in someone's saliva/blood. Sure , people always say find a job you love doing etc etc. but after working a handful of jobs, some fun, others not so much, I don't think i will love any job. i love spending time with my family, friends, traveling etc. so for me, my job will be a means to support the things i love rather than be the reason for me to get up everyday. So.. I've come to the conclusion that pharmacy is the best healthcare profession to get into, investment wise(you put in little and receive much more in return). Cost of pharm schooling is much lower(especially if you go to to a state school), curriculum seems much more laid back, optional attendance, no lab work, so you have more time during school to live rather than be slaving away for years with only ocassional weekends to live for., much less stress in the working world(less liability), cleaner profession, easy to find a job and travel and work in different regions, guaranteed high income, benefits, more variety... Am I alone in this belief? I don't mean to turn this into a pharm/dent bashing, just wanted to get others' views on this. thanx!

I think you don't want to be a dentist. Your observations are skewed by personal biases as are my observations about pharmacy. I think the idea of most likely working for a corporation doesn't sound that appealing. I don't know about you I enjoy a good challenge. Ever have to pick up a prescription late at night, you know who the attending pharmacist is? The new grad. I would much rather be able to interact with patients without a glass or a counter between me. Yeah dental students will have more debt, but also will have more earning potential. Every single pharmacist I know(5) works for a corporation. I know I will not gain autonomy right out of school, but if I stick to my plan owning my own practice is a real possibility.


To answer your question it is worth it. I know I may sound like an Ahole but I am still confused by the nature of your post.
 
I can't picture myself as a pharmacist. If I were to follow your train of thought (not have any personal interest in any profession... go into a career purely for investment purposes), I would go into business.
 
With the high costs of dental school these days (150-300K) and the grueling 4 years to get through it...is it really worth it? It seems like the norm for new grads is to make below six figs and to top it off they often get screwed when associating by the owner dentists, plus no benefits, stress of the job itself, working in such a small area, deep in someone's saliva/blood. Sure , people always say find a job you love doing etc etc. but after working a handful of jobs, some fun, others not so much, I don't think i will love any job. i love spending time with my family, friends, traveling etc. so for me, my job will be a means to support the things i love rather than be the reason for me to get up everyday. So.. I've come to the conclusion that pharmacy is the best healthcare profession to get into, investment wise(you put in little and receive much more in return). Cost of pharm schooling is much lower(especially if you go to to a state school), curriculum seems much more laid back, optional attendance, no lab work, so you have more time during school to live rather than be slaving away for 4 years with only ocassional weekends to live for., much less stress in the working world(less liability), cleaner profession, easy to find a job and travel and work in different regions, guaranteed high income, benefits, more variety... Am I alone in this belief? I don't mean to turn this into a pharm/dent bashing, just wanted to get others' views on this. thanx!

If you think pharm is better, then go to pharmacy school.
 
You know, I wasted too much of my time on what I said previously. I agree with the above comment....you like Pharmacy and hate Dental so you already know what decision to make.
 
I think you don't want to be a dentist. Your observations are skewed by personal biases as are my observations about pharmacy. I think the idea of most likely working for a corporation doesn't sound that appealing. I don't know about you I enjoy a good challenge. Ever have to pick up a prescription late at night, you know who the attending pharmacist is? The new grad. I would much rather be able to interact with patients without a glass or a counter between me. Yeah dental students will have more debt, but also will have more earning potential. Every single pharmacist I know(5) works for a corporation. I know I will not gain autonomy right out of school, but if I stick to my plan owning my own practice is a real possibility.


To answer your question it is worth it. I know I may sound like an Ahole but I am still confused by the nature of your post.

My point of posting was to just get others' point of view on something that was on my mind. That's the point of these forums isn't it. You don't really know which career is most fitting for you until you actually are out working in it, and with professional schools, its a big commitment, time and money wise. I know some very unhappy, stressed out dentists who feel trapped in a career that they end up not liking and happy ones with thriving practices. I fear of becoming the former. A lot of dental or predents, including myself go into largely for the money/lifestyle, which makes me wonder if it is really worth it considering what you need to put in to get through school. I was always into healthcare/science, but honestly it was the income/lifestyle that really lured me into dentistry. I was never interested in pharm and never considered it, but i knew nothing about it. I've been looking into it recently and it seems like a pretty sweet deal. (best case scenario)2 years undergrad, 4 years pharm school, little debt, high income, little liability and commitment. if you find you don't like retail pharm there are many options for you. If you find you dont like practicing dentistry, your degree still limits you to dental care in some way. I just want to hear others opinions or insight in comparing the two professions. Oh, and I list mostly positives about pharm because posting this in the dental forum, I already know I will have biased responses against it.
 
With the high costs of dental school these days (150-300K) and the grueling 4 years to get through it...is it really worth it? It seems like the norm for new grads is to make below six figs and to top it off they often get screwed when associating by the owner dentists, plus no benefits, stress of the job itself, working in such a small area, deep in someone's saliva/blood. Sure , people always say find a job you love doing etc etc. but after working a handful of jobs, some fun, others not so much, I don't think i will love any job. i love spending time with my family, friends, traveling etc. so for me, my job will be a means to support the things i love rather than be the reason for me to get up everyday. So.. I've come to the conclusion that pharmacy is the best healthcare profession to get into, investment wise(you put in little and receive much more in return). Cost of pharm schooling is much lower(especially if you go to to a state school), curriculum seems much more laid back, optional attendance, no lab work, so you have more time during school to live rather than be slaving away for 4 years with only ocassional weekends to live for., much less stress in the working world(less liability), cleaner profession, easy to find a job and travel and work in different regions, guaranteed high income, benefits, more variety... Am I alone in this belief? I don't mean to turn this into a pharm/dent bashing, just wanted to get others' views on this. thanx!

if you never had experienced being a dentist...then dont say hersay. you talk like pharmacy school is cake. also, america is great because its the land of opportunity where you can be anyone you want and do anything you want, but those opportunities must be earned. just because you graduated from dental school doesnt mean people are going to be running to you offering $200-300k a year job, you have to go out there and work your arse off if you want that kind of salary.

also, from your post it looks like you want the the EASY way out of stuff aka
1) least amount of work
2) most amount of money

if you do get into pharm school and graduate, please update me so i will make sure i wont be going to you for drugs.
 
To the OP, I think you hit the highlights right on. Dental school, without a doubt is not for everyone. The earning potential is vast but like everyone has mentioned, you have to work hard to achieve a high level of success. For pharmacy, it seems (to me) that you will be making decent money right off the bat, but then you kind of plateau right there b/c you've hit a "glass ceiling."

Why this is even turning out to be an argument is beyond me b/c you've done your research and you've mentioned family is more important to you so therefore pharmacy would be the best choice for you. For the rest of us, we all just want to achieve "more" and are willing to work our asses off to get it, hence we're sticking w/ dental. Anyway, good luck w/ pharmacy!🙂
 
I'm in the same position as you, OP, and I agree with you especially about any job being just a means to financially support our real life with our friends and family. There are a lucky few who manage to find success doing what they love but it's rare. For the rest of us, we have to work.

If someone handed you a piece of paper with an account number and pin to an offshore account with $10 million and it wouldn't drastically change your 10-year plan... then, congratulations, you're among the lucky few.

If not, let's face it, what you do every day is work. It doesn't matter whether you're a janitor, doctor, astronaut, or actor. You're doing something you wouldn't be doing if you woke up this morning without any financial restraints. So the idea seems to be spend as little time with work so you can live.

I'm also a dreamer and like 2quik I'm also the type that plans to "achieve more" and I began my entrepreneurial endeavors in my early teens. You know the statistics about failed businesses but you always think you'll be ok since you're so smart, prepared, and determined. Long story short, I had my years of success and once I got involved in trading, I thought I'd make my first million in my early 20's, but the risks were real and I naive. At this point in my life, a stable, worry-free job seems like a beautiful thing. Even after a good day in the stock market, I'd feel completely drained and stressed out.

40 hour weeks, six figure salary? I guess it's a sign of our Gen Y'ness that we feel like we're entitled to so much more. Why was Iron Man such a success? My theory is because we all want to be Tony Stark. Billionaire, the incredible house, cool gadgets, exotic cars, supermodels, born into a CEO position? Not to mention that gold-titanium alloy suit.

Looking back along the history of mankind, we're lucky to be able to have jobs like this. Hell, even today, we're very lucky to have options like being a Dentist or a Pharmacist. Let's be honest here, both these professions are golden.

Obviously this post is a bit biased given my current opinion on the topic matter at hand. Who knows though, perhaps I'll discover more about dentistry in this thread and end up on that path.

But at the moment, the whole small-business aspect, working with associates, and overhead are extremely unappealing. I am just sick and tired of thinking about your business 24/7. It's not just the hours you're at work, not when you're self-employed. I'm also actually interested in drugs and how they can help people, especially with pain.

Pharmacist seems to be a high-salary job where you're just an employee. You show up, put in your hours helping as many people as you can, and you're done when you leave. No worries, no stress. I absolutely love that. There's also no reason you can't quit and just come back into retail at a completely different location later on and pick up right where you started at the same salary level. It's a safe job I can always count on if my future business ventures don't pan out.

I think many have such a romanticized view of prestigious jobs like doctors, lawyers, and to a certain degree, dentists as well. But with these careers, it's only a small percentage that really prosper and the rest sort of just trudge on. That's the risk, and as you already know, I'm not looking for any risk right now. Business and creative ventures is where I expect my big payoffs and risks, being able to work as a pharmacist is my steady rock.

The fact that retail Pharmacists' salaries don't increase much with experience used to be a huge downside for me. But I've come to look at it from a new perspective. That $100k+ salary is plenty isn't it? And it's kind of like achieving your dreams right at the start instead of working your entire life looking for promotion after promotion and when does it end? 20, 30 years building up your practice for what? Not having to worry about a higher salary means you can spend within your means and just enjoy your life instead of worrying about work all the time. You've made it already, now relax? But then again, this might just be my subconscious trying to glorify the glass ceiling salary for pharmacists.

Anyways, getting back on topic. Is the tuition worth it for dentistry? I think it's absolutely worth it. It's a small price to pay for the prestige and lifelong work. I don't believe either path will be a walk in the park though. Both will require focus to obtain the degree.

If either option was significantly more attractive than the other, we'd see an equalizing change in salaries. So in the end it comes down to whichever will fit you best. And to figure that out... well, I think you're on the right track.
 
To begin, let me say that I think that both pharmacy and dentistry are great careers. It really boils down to the fact that you need to love your career or you'll never be completely happy (regardless of the salary, etc.). Now onto the post dissection:


Cost of pharm schooling is much lower(especially if you go to to a state school)

Most pharm grads are are looking at over 100k in loans, personally I am looking at 120k

curriculum seems much more laid back, optional attendance, no lab work, so you have more time during school to live rather than be slaving away for 4 years with only ocassional weekends to live for.

Well don't expect a cake walk if you manage to get into pharm school. Attendance is mandatory, I dunno where you got that from. The curriculum laid back? Not really, there are many intensive classes and 20+ credit hour semesters are not uncommon. There are mandatory lab courses every semester, so there are labs that must be completed weekly.[/quote]


much less stress in the working world(less liability), cleaner profession, easy to find a job and travel and work in different regions, guaranteed high income, benefits, more variety...

Pharmacy is actually pretty high stress in certain career paths, so be prepared for that if you choose pharmacy. I do agree that pharmacy is "cleaner" in terms of less bodily fluid involved :laugh:. As far as finding a job, benefits, income, etc., those are all going to depend on your specific job, not necessarily your career itself.
 
Reality check Pharm vs. Dental from my eys....

Time working: Dentists tend to work fewer hours later in the career
Salary: Again, dentists will average a higher income over time especially with the ability to stay in private practice. Plus, pharmacists make dirt out of school as well.
Family time: Same at worst.
School stress: You're in for some punishment if you think Pharm school sans lab is a cake walk.
Work stress: Push. Working "elbow deep" daily in a strangers mouth or counting out friggin' pills everyday sounds terrible in both cases.

So to answer your post, the pathway to becoming a pharmacist is not easy and the lifestyle of a pharmacist is not superior to the lifestyle of a dentist, just different.

I agree with you except for the "pharmacist make dirt out of school". They make 100k+ depending on their location and job.
 
Somehow, in this thread, 100k is dirt 🙄

hah, seriously. I see that a lot on these forums. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I come from a humble middle class family background and 100K to start isn't "dirt." For most of the U.S., it isn't dirt. Sure, you have to pay of loans and expenses, but from what I've seen, you're not exactly stressed to make ends meet, provided you make DECENTLY smart financial decisions.

to the OP: Thats fine if thats your opinion. I won't argue. One less person in the applicant pool. Go do what you like. In the end, thats what matters.
 
Reality check Pharm vs. Dental from my eys....

if you think Pharm school sans lab is a cake walk.
Work stress: Push. Working "elbow deep" daily in a strangers mouth or counting out friggin' pills everyday sounds terrible in both cases.

Pharmacists usually don't count their own pills they have techs do it, they mostly get paid to chill and read the newspaper.
You really can't compare pharm to dentistry - its like comparing apples to oranges.
You should compare it to other chill jobs like being a librarian or museum attendent.
 
Pharmacists usually don't count their own pills they have techs do it, they mostly get paid to chill and read the newspaper.
You really can't compare pharm to dentistry - its like comparing apples to oranges.
You should compare it to other chill jobs like being a librarian or museum attendent.

Usually? Nope, they work. Watch a pharmacist and you'll see that they are actively filling prescriptions themselves. Their techs are as well but they don't just bark orders. That type of work is similar to a dentist asking or expecting an assistant to clean teeth, perform x-rays, prep for some work to be done, etc. Both a pharmacist and dentist dole out orders and do work themselves. Apples and oranges are both fruits right?
 
Somehow, in this thread, 100k is dirt 🙄

Fine, you agree to take on the pharmacist salary for your career. I mean dirt as it is the bottom of the pay scale for a dentist. I'm a predent but I'm not an idiot on finances (100k doesn't literally equal dirt or no money!).
 
(100k doesn't literally equal dirt or no money!).
Alongside the expectation that they should be given $500,000/yr jobs working 20 hours a week just by virtue of being alive, another common problem among pre-dental/pre-med/pre-whatever students is the irrational belief that the world at large should be able to telepathically distinguish between their distorted exaggerations and their equally distorted actual opinions.

If you didn't mean it, you shouldn't have said it.
 
Alongside the expectation that they should be given $500,000/yr jobs working 20 hours a week just by virtue of being alive, another common problem among pre-dental/pre-med/pre-whatever students is the irrational belief that the world at large should be able to telepathically distinguish between their distorted exaggerations and their equally distorted actual opinions.

If you didn't mean it, you shouldn't have said it.

Despite the fact that you used far to many large words for this thread I'll decide to comment. 100k is not enough, it's dirt, so I meant it. I don't care what "pre" statement you add to my opinion. I decided to enter dentistry for the job environment AND the money. If I don't earn that 500k/20 hr. wk. 🙂bullcrap🙂 then I'm setting MYSELF up for a disappointment. My opinion is not irrational or exaggerated. It's an opinion! You have no right to state that it is either. Again, I say 100k is not enough money or "dirt". I would not agree to the amount of schooling/debt I'm going to enter into for that money and that is fairly clear I believe to you.

BTW, those future pharmacists will incur less debt for lower pay, so, I suppose that ridiculously lower income dirty-dirt pay of 100k is good for them.
 
Usually? Nope, they work. Watch a pharmacist and you'll see that they are actively filling prescriptions themselves. Their techs are as well but they don't just bark orders. That type of work is similar to a dentist asking or expecting an assistant to clean teeth, perform x-rays, prep for some work to be done, etc. Both a pharmacist and dentist dole out orders and do work themselves. Apples and oranges are both fruits right?

Pharmacists and librarians also both have jobs
 
Are you a chriropractor?

Huh? Some kind of humor I'm supposed to get from that? I'm a "cry-ro-practor"? I break people's backs for no reason? I honestly don't know where your going with these last couple of posts.
 
I've come to the conclusion that pharmacy is the best healthcare profession to get into, investment wise(you put in little and receive much more in return).

Your statement may be true if pharmacy is compared to general dentistry. General dentists average from 80k-130k/yr despite labor-intensive and painstaking procedures, all of which will eventually bear long-terms effects on your health and emotional morale. I'm not going to mention student loans, as both professions will require educational debt to start with.

Pharmacy is not as technically difficult, yet pharmacists bring home salaries comparable to those of general dentists.
 
Huh? Some kind of humor I'm supposed to get from that? I'm a "cry-ro-practor"? I break people's backs for no reason? I honestly don't know where your going with these last couple of posts.

I wouldn't knock the chiros if I were you.

To make that "dirt-cheap" 100k and/or pay off debt, you'll have to work your *** off in dentistry. But the harder you work means you'll be closer to the day where you'll have back pain, cataracts, chronic pulmonary problems, high mercury exposure, macular degeneration, and carpal tunnel.
 
Everyone get your umbrellas out...Johnny Raincloud has appeared!

Airwolf...do you even know one happy, healthy, successful dentist??? A common element exists among most successful people...that is: a positive attitude. If you give the best effort at whatever it is you do, I sincerely believe you will find a way to succeed...AND be happy. If you allow yourself to believe you will fail, then you probably will.

As always, I wish you the best of luck.
 
Airwolf...do you even know one happy, healthy, successful dentist??? .

How about this, did you completely finish dental school and started working as a general dentist?

For anything you do, I agree that a positive and confident mindset is needed for success. But it's a setback to be blind against the reality of dentistry. ( general dentistry, in particular, since that's what I'm doing myself. I don't have info regarding specialists, though I'm sure they earn 2x - 4x as much)

I'm just addressing the issues of typical salaries and pros/cons of dentistry and pharmacy to the original poster. I'm not saying that dentistry is an "end to all" professional doom.
 
How about this, did you completely finish dental school and started working as a general dentist?

For anything you do, I agree that a positive and confident mindset is needed for success. But it's a setback to be blind against the reality of dentistry. ( general dentistry, in particular, since that's what I'm doing myself. I don't have info regarding specialists, though I'm sure they earn 2x - 4x as much)

I'm just addressing the issues of typical salaries and pros/cons of dentistry and pharmacy to the original poster. I'm not saying that dentistry is an "end to all" professional doom.


More advice about dentistry from the guy who thinks he's allergic to it? 🙄

Unfortunately, you hate general dentistry so much it seems you've become blind to the benefits. I talk to many people graduating this year and they have guaranteed salaries all around 120-150k. These aren't people walking into daddy's practice either. Also, the nationwide average for general dentists owning their own business if fast approaching 200k.

All this is on a shorter working week than the average pharmacist, but as you and others have mentioned, higher physical demand and higher stress from directly dealing with patients and a higher debt load.
 
How about this, did you completely finish dental school and started working as a general dentist?

Nope, sure haven't...BUT, I've built two very successful businesses over the last 15 years, and I know what it takes to make things happen. I've lost probably 5x more money in real estate investments than you have in student loans, therefore your whining sounds ridiculous to me. There are so many professions that pay much less and offer very little personal reward at the end of the day.

Please find something positive about your profession, and use it as an incentive to drive your career. If money is what you want, work harder to make more...If you want to give back to the community, practice a couple of days in under-served areas...If you don't care for general dentistry a whole bunch, then get your a$$ to a ton of CE classes and enhance your skills. You don't have to drill and fill all day as a general dentist, which is why being a GP is so appealing to so many people.

I have three close personal friends who are dentists, and I've done a ton of homework prior to making the career change. If you're working your a$$ off to make $80,K per year, then you're getting robbed as an associate. One of my friends pays her experienced associates $90/hr., and new grads $60/hr. + incentives...and she'll be the first to tell you she is cheap. Another friend took a position in small corporate dentistry and made $250,K+ each of his first two years out (2004 & 2005). He now owns a practice grossing 1.2M per year. I'm sure this isn't the norm, but it can be done.

Listen, your points may very well have validity, BUT the sentiment of your posts is typically doom and gloom, and are likely to represent a very small portion of the population. I'm not saying that all in dentistry is 'rainbows and butterflies', but find me a profession that is...you can't. There are challenges and negatives in every career, and I can also tell you first hand that making bank is not all its cracked up to be. Just work hard, and live frugally for the next five or so years, and if you need to make another change to find happiness, it is likely that you'll be able to afford it.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
 
More advice about dentistry from the guy who thinks he's allergic to it? 🙄

Unfortunately, you hate general dentistry so much it seems you've become blind to the benefits. I talk to many people graduating this year and they have guaranteed salaries all around 120-150k. These aren't people walking into daddy's practice either. Also, the nationwide average for general dentists owning their own business if fast approaching 200k.

All this is on a shorter working week than the average pharmacist, but as you and others have mentioned, higher physical demand and higher stress from directly dealing with patients and a higher debt load.

I believe the ADA quoted 202K (which is obviously a little bias 😀) for general dentists owning their own business.
 
If you don't care for general dentistry a whole bunch, then get your a$$ to a ton of CE classes and enhance your skills. You don't have to drill and fill all day as a general dentist, which is why being a GP is so appealing to so many people.

Another friend took a position in small corporate dentistry and made $250,K+ each of his first two years out (2004 & 2005). He now owns a practice grossing 1.2M per year.

Listen, your points may very well have validity, BUT the sentiment of your posts is typically doom and gloom, .

1. You can't learn anything beyond advanced "drill and fills" via CE. I've taken some CEs and they aren't comprehensive and hands-on enough for you to actually do perio, ortho, and implants. Most aren't any better than reading a textbook and then actually doing the procedure for the first time, which I don't think is worth losing your dental license should something go wrong.

2. Like I said in some of my other posts, I also know a few folks who are netting over 200k/yr right after dental school. I don't know what dentistry they're in but these aren't too common. They're probably bragging as I speak and I don't blame them, but you're leaving out their friends who are making less than half that amount. There are anecdotal facts for everything.

3. I'm too exhausted to go over everything, so I'll just stop right here. If anyone has questions, you can pm me and I'll give you down-to-earth replies for whatever you were too afraid to ask.
 
I can't picture myself as a pharmacist. If I were to follow your train of thought (not have any personal interest in any profession... go into a career purely for investment purposes), I would go into business.

Good point
 
Huh? Some kind of humor I'm supposed to get from that? I'm a "cry-ro-practor"? I break people's backs for no reason? I honestly don't know where your going with these last couple of posts.


It was just, well, when you write you sound very chriopractic.
 
1. You can't learn anything beyond advanced "drill and fills" via CE. I've taken some CEs and they aren't comprehensive and hands-on enough for you to actually do perio, ortho, and implants. Most aren't any better than reading a textbook and then actually doing the procedure for the first time, which I don't think is worth losing your dental license should something go wrong.

2. Like I said in some of my other posts, I also know a few folks who are netting over 200k/yr right after dental school. I don't know what dentistry they're in but these aren't too common. They're probably bragging as I speak and I don't blame them, but you're leaving out their friends who are making less than half that amount. There are anecdotal facts for everything.

3. I'm too exhausted to go over everything, so I'll just stop right here. If anyone has questions, you can pm me and I'll give you down-to-earth replies for whatever you were too afraid to ask.

Whoa, hold up! So according to you, CE courses are utterly useless, that one could read it in a textbook?? Are you serious? So then.. why do people even take CE courses?
 
And to piggyback this question...can you enlighten us on HOW the independent dentist enhances their skills? They have to be doing it somehow. True, I've heard that most CE is not really going to give everything you need, but you have to start somewhere. I also find it hard to believe ALL CE is as useless as you make it sound.

Whoa, hold up! So according to you, CE courses are utterly useless, that one could read it in a textbook?? Are you serious? So then.. why do people even take CE courses?
 
Stating that you can't learn what you need to through CE is a completely false statement and shows a total ignorance with the entire dental profession. You learn about 10% of what you need to know in dental school to be a successful, efficient dentist. Most dental schools teach you just enough to be dangerous before releasing you to the masses. If you think otherwise, seek another line of work as you'll spend your career woefully behind the times and constantly delivering a sub-par product to your patients. You'll probably hate dentistry too so switch now while you can afford to.
 
A lot of dental or predents, including myself go into largely for the money/lifestyle, which makes me wonder if it is really worth it considering what you need to put in to get through school. I was always into healthcare/science, but honestly it was the income/lifestyle that really lured me into dentistry.

I may be wrong about this, but based on what I've heard from the vast majority of dentists and dental students that I know, if you don't have a sincere passion for what you're doing, it will basically be impossible to survive school anyway. It's the ones who want to do the work because they love it, not what they can get out of it who end up succeeding at the highest level.

On a side note, I've been reading a lot of forums on here an I'm tired of some posters acting so condescending towards someone who mentions lifestyle. Sure many love the profession and have a passion for medicine and helping people, but everyone at least to some extent wants the status and money that comes with it. I'm also tired of the BS hierarchy of MDs, DOs, DDSs, and PharmDs. Different people go into different professions for a variety of reasons. I chose dentistry...it wasn't my backup plan after not getting into Med School. Yea it's true, med school is technically "harder" to get into than dental school, but we're talking 5% acceptance vs. 6% acceptance. And, there are WAY fewer spots for pre-dents. Just a few thoughts...
 
Dentistry is too hard to do if you don't like it. The dentists that you hear about the high suicide thing have to do with doing a job that you don't like. It's hard work and does pay well but way too hard to do if you don't enjoy it. I agree that it's BS to be all idealistic and say don't go into a profession if you're just doing it for the money as if professionals just made the same as high school grads we wouldn't even have professionals! I enjoy dentistry and the everyday challenge it presents but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it for 50K a year. Does that make me a bad person... I don't think so. If you surveyed 100 dentists and asked them if they'd do it for 50K I'm betting that all 100 would agree that the physical, emotional toll is not worth it. Dentistry is an imperfect science done on imperfect patients by imperfect people/dentists.... who are perfectionists. It takes a few years to realize the tightrope balancing act that dentists must walk to enjoy what they're doing while not burning out. I'm willing to bet that dentists think about managing their life more than the average person.
 
This is an investment on yourself. You can't think of it as a business investment where you are looking to recoup the money invested plus make a profit. The "profit" aspect of it is the satisfaction of being a dentist and all the perks that come with it i.e. when was the last time you heard of a dentist getting pink slipped?
 
Dental school is work but it is great and when you finish you will be a health professional who works good hours is his own boss and makes good money. I say it is worth but that is up to each person individually. I would not have been happy doing anything else so it is worth it to me.
 
I may be wrong about this, but based on what I've heard from the vast majority of dentists and dental students that I know, if you don't have a sincere passion for what you're doing, it will basically be impossible to survive school anyway. It's the ones who want to do the work because they love it, not what they can get out of it who end up succeeding at the highest level.

On a side note, I've been reading a lot of forums on here an I'm tired of some posters acting so condescending towards someone who mentions lifestyle. Sure many love the profession and have a passion for medicine and helping people, but everyone at least to some extent wants the status and money that comes with it. I'm also tired of the BS hierarchy of MDs, DOs, DDSs, and PharmDs. Different people go into different professions for a variety of reasons. I chose dentistry...it wasn't my backup plan after not getting into Med School. Yea it's true, med school is technically "harder" to get into than dental school, but we're talking 5% acceptance vs. 6% acceptance. And, there are WAY fewer spots for pre-dents. Just a few thoughts...

Actually, that is just rhetoric based on my experience. What if someone chose to get into dentistry for a combination of reasons, like passion for the work and a preference for the lifestyle? It doesn't have to be all passion (believe me, I have heard this kind of talk enough in my present field). At the end of the day, it's good to work on something you like, but it's also equally important to have tangible, practical rewards to go along with personal satisfaction. How many people here can work solely on passion in this field if all they get is $40k/yr and incur a massive debt? I'd like to see a show of hands for this.
 
Actually, that is just rhetoric based on my experience. What if someone chose to get into dentistry for a combination of reasons, like passion for the work and a preference for the lifestyle? It doesn't have to be all passion (believe me, I have heard this kind of talk enough in my present field). At the end of the day, it's good to work on something you like, but it's also equally important to have tangible, practical rewards to go along with personal satisfaction. How many people here can work solely on passion in this field if all they get is $40k/yr and incur a massive debt? I'd like to see a show of hands for this.

I wonder if garbage men berate each other like people do on this forum about not having any passion for their work, and "just doing it for the money"
 
I wonder if garbage men berate each other like people do on this forum about not having any passion for their work, and "just doing it for the money"

True. It would nice if ones head was taken off for asking/talking/mentioning anything about our salary following school. This forum to often protects the belief that dentists should only be interested in how great the job is, definitely not the income associated with the job.
 
Thats why its better to ask some of these questions on dental town where there are practicing dentists replying. Most of these kids havent started or are barely through dental school but they all have to put their 2 cents in, cause they know everything based on the figures from the ada. Really, nobody cares if "you couldnt see yourself as a pharmacist". Now to go on and answer the original question. You are right dentistry is definitly not one of the most lucrative jobs. They repeatedly told us in dental school, dentistry wont make you rich, but will make sure you have a comfortable stable life. If you look at schooling, stress, debt, lifestyle, and income per hour there are def oter jobs that are equal if not higher. Some that come to mind include pharm, CRNA, and lawyers. Yes according to an article I saw in time magazine a few years ago lawyers are one of the highest paid professions if everything is figured in. Ask some of the firms what they are paying new lawyers out of school in las vegas, and philadelphia and you will get figures like $500/hr with a minimum amount of hours for every case. SOOOOO what does this mean, of course find a job that you like, and if you think you wont really lke any or hate any job, then find a job that is at least tolerable. Would you prefer counting pills vs wokring directly on patients, vs sitting reading books all day? In response to most CE not teaching you anything that is wrong. You have probably taken CE that is free or costs a few hundred dollars, which is mostly useless, and thats why it free! There are courses I have taken that were great and I have learned a lot, of course that course was also $6,000.
 
Ask some of the firms what they are paying new lawyers out of school in las vegas, and philadelphia and you will get figures like $500/hr with a minimum amount of hours for every case.

I'm not buying this one. I'm sure some top grads from the top tier law schools make respectible money fresh out...$150-200,K, BUT $500/hr...? You're talking about $500,K per year on a 20 hour work week. Most new attorneys work an a$$load of hours for several years prior to making partner. I have a friend that graduated from Toledo (obviously not ivy league), worked 80+ hours a week for a respectable firm making no more than 65,K for 8 years!...He still didn't make partner, and eventually took a position as counsel for a large insurance company making 80,K on a 40 hour work week. I think you're much better with pharm, CRNA, and dentistry of course.

They repeatedly told us in dental school, dentistry wont make you rich, but will make sure you have a comfortable stable life.

I think you really need to define "rich" here. I think the individual that can work 35 hours and eventually make $200,K/year is capable of living a pretty rich life. There are a number of fields where people make more, but many of them require working extensive hours.

On another note, one of the most irritating comments that is continually reiterated on these boards is ..."if I wanted to make a ton of cash, I would have just gone into I-banking or business". Comments of this nature truly depict the ignorance and lack of real world experience that many new grads possess.

My $.02...and worth every penny!😀
 
Ahh being new here and just beginning pre-dental school this thread some what scares me
 
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