Is it supposed to hurt this much?

[rkaz]

Yes the job functions vary but you certainly could try to figure out if there is ANY specialty job function you are pretty sure you'd enjoy before you set out. You can find something you like even better along the way, or realize that things aren't exactly as they seemed to a premed, or maybe you come to the realization that lifestyle is more of a deal breaker than you originally contemplated. but going in clueless and hoping a job that "helps people" is enough or pays well is enough is what creates all the malcontents in the profession IMHO. You must must must dig deeper. Shadow, volunteer, talk to people who won't whitewash things. Most of the people cursing life and hating what they do didn't do their due diligence.

It's not always possible to know what your future life as a physician might be like until you actually get into it with both feet. I shadowed internal med docs as a pre-med and really liked it. I also really loved my ward-based internal medicine rotation as a medical student when I was only carrying 2 patients during the day, with a very supportive attending physician who cared about my learning, and I had plenty of time to sit and read up on topics on up-t0-date. I was fascinated by what I was learning. However, my experiences as an intern on inpatient medicine were absolutely miserable - when I had attendings and senior residents breathing down my neck, criticizing me, as I was juggling multiple patients - and I was developing an adjustment disorder feeling like I would have a nervous breakdown if I had to deal with this for much longer. I didn't expect things to be like that before actually being an intern.

Thankfully I'm a psychiatry resident and don't have to deal with inpatient medicine rotations any longer, and if it weren't for being a psychiatry resident, I don't know if I would do medicine over again if general medicine were my only option. I love my field of psychiatry, and couldn't imagine myself doing anything else in medicine (for the most part, unless maybe occupational medicine... possibly). While I find the field of general internal/family medicine very interesting, the day-to-day misery is not worth it to me. So no, I probably wouldn't have predicted this before going in, despite my 'research' and despite the fact that I come from a family of internal medicine sub-specialty docs....

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[Doctor Bagel]

Yes the job functions vary but you certainly could try to figure out if there is ANY specialty job function you are pretty sure you'd enjoy before you set out. You can find something you like even better along the way, or realize that things aren't exactly as they seemed to a premed, or maybe you come to the realization that lifestyle is more of a deal breaker than you originally contemplated. but going in clueless and hoping a job that "helps people" is enough or pays well is enough is what creates all the malcontents in the profession IMHO. You must must must dig deeper. Shadow, volunteer, talk to people who won't whitewash things. Most of the people cursing life and hating what they do didn't do their due diligence.

Or they would hate whatever they. Can't discount temperament in these issues. I also think there's a huge issue of idealizing other professions, thinking that we're getting the raw end of the deal. It's not exactly easy to get a finance job making a ton of money despite all the claims I read about this on SDN.

 

[deleted647155]

OP, take things one day at a time. Now is not the time to make rash decisions. Rooting for you.

 

[deltamed]

Yes the job functions vary but you certainly could try to figure out if there is ANY specialty job function you are pretty sure you'd enjoy before you set out. You can find something you like even better along the way, or realize that things aren't exactly as they seemed to a premed, or maybe you come to the realization that lifestyle is more of a deal breaker than you originally contemplated. but going in clueless and hoping a job that "helps people" is enough or pays well is enough is what creates all the malcontents in the profession IMHO. You must must must dig deeper. Shadow, volunteer, talk to people who won't whitewash things. Most of the people cursing life and hating what they do didn't do their due diligence.

I agree its very difficult to do "predict" if you'll find an area of medicine that will make you happy. I honestly think the #1 question premeds should ask themselves is "does bulls*it bother me much?" Cause every area of medicine nowadays deals with BS in both govt regulation, paperwork, crazy patients or staff/admin. If you get upset with useless / meaningless rules, if you can't "go with the flow" in a hierarchical structure, if you cant sleep at night with uncertainty (in decisions you made that might end up with bad outcomes), if you cant deal with people yelling at you -- then you are going to be unhappy. On the other hand, if you don't mind following useless rules to get to a goal, are fairly thick-skinned and you sleep easy with no anxiety no matter what you'll probably do well.

I personally went into medicine for some of the reasons named as "stupid." I like science, I wanted some prestige/respect, I wanted to make good money and have a stable job. Also being good at standardized tests helps Didn't care a whole ton about "helping everyone" and actually didn't enjoy people very much (ie talking/socializing- very much an introvert).

Guess what? I'm extremely happy in practice (in a very patient-facing specialty) and never had any issues in medical school, internship or residency. True, I think of my work as just a job, but I look forward to work, think Im fairly compensated and have zero trouble interacting with patients who tend to like me very much.

I think the reason for this is I have a high tolerance for BS, am very pragmatic (goal oriented) and talking to patients as their doctor is completely different than socializing at a party.

 

[radsswtich]

I have never been more miserable at a job as i do in medicine. I didnt mind intern yr; this yr in my advanced specialty has been painful beyond words. I hate the people i work with, i hate the specialty, and if theres a financially feasible way out, im gone. No questions asked.

So to the op, you are not alone. Medicine is humiliating, degrading, and frustrating.

 

[QofQuimica]

I agree its very difficult to do "predict" if you'll find an area of medicine that will make you happy. I honestly think the #1 question premeds should ask themselves is "does bulls*it bother me much?" Cause every area of medicine nowadays deals with BS in both govt regulation, paperwork, crazy patients or staff/admin. If you get upset with useless / meaningless rules, if you can't "go with the flow" in a hierarchical structure, if you cant sleep at night with uncertainty (in decisions you made that might end up with bad outcomes), if you cant deal with people yelling at you -- then you are going to be unhappy. On the other hand, if you don't mind following useless rules to get to a goal, are fairly thick-skinned and you sleep easy with no anxiety no matter what you'll probably do well.

I think there's a lot of truth to this. Most of the things you mentioned don't bother me, but even in academia, where idiosyncrasy is considerably more tolerated than it is in the corporate world, I find the BS to be a constant, low-level irritation. To say it upsets me is a bit too strong, but it definitely annoys me enough to make me not want to deal with the whole thing.

 

[Rehab_dr]

I have never been more miserable at a job as i do in medicine. I didnt mind intern yr; this yr in my advanced specialty has been painful beyond words. I hate the people i work with, i hate the specialty, and if theres a financially feasible way out, im gone. No questions asked.

So to the op, you are not alone. Medicine is humiliating, degrading, and frustrating.

I ended up feeling the same way you did in Rads - which I assume that's what you are in given your handle. So I ended up switching. It was a scary decision to make but glad I made it. I could not have stuck it out long term. I thought about every possible option and I just decided I couldn't live with my initial specialty choice.

 

[nossan]

I will share this moment of blatant eavesdropping: Kalispell,MT....August 2015.... Restaurant overlooking lake, ski slopes in the background. Two well-dressed women (65-70 year old driving the meeting, 50 year old business-type being courted.) The older women was about to launch several clinics/urgent cares/something in the area.

She said that when it came time to recruit MDs she would lure them with the MT lifestyle, competitive salary, casual workplace and complete autonomy. In return she would ask only that really good medicine be practiced.

Its not for everyone, but if it helps you to get through your year - meditate on that.

 

[Gfliptastic]

Intern year DOES suck. Look how long it took me to post on SDN lol (I'm on 2-weeks of vacation!)

There's 23 other IM interns w/ me, and I've heard about 20 of them contemplate quitting w/ all seriousness in their eyes. (The other 3 are just too shy or closed-off I bet lol). 3 weeks into my first Gen Med/Floor rotation, I was so close to it myself. The hours were horrible (except for maybe surgical interns), and no matter how hard I tried to be diligent, I'd just be so tired, I'd make a minor error that my resident would catch (like "nephro recommended TID as opposed to BID, did you change that order?" etc)

So yes, you basically become a glorified secretary "Did you to talk to the CM?" "What did SW say?" "Have all those new orders in by noon conference." "Is the discharge teed up for tomorrow" F***, yes, I know. And this, I feel, is all dumb s*** I could give my med student, if it wasn't like medico-legally required to have a "doctor" (yes I used quotes) on the documentation.

And you can't put 2 or more interns together w/o it still turning into a gripe-fest. This is NOT what I think any of us signed up to do, but at the same time, I don't see any drastic changes coming in the future, so it's best we get ready to deal w/ it and accept it. It's institutionalized hazing, but we DO have to be put through the ringers to be able to be independent practicing physicians.

Whether you quit is still up to you, but know that there is shared misery across the board, that somehow doesn't really go away. It just evolves into a new form of misery every step of the way. Even at the attending level. There's institutional meddling and you have to "play ball" w/ otherwise you get your privileges revoked and the $$ leaves you!!

You can do this! WE can do this!!!! So what if we don't sleep or eat or have fun or want to live anymore. It's what we signed up to do.
I make my medical students (cruelly) aware of this. If I'm doing discharge summaries, they are sitting next to me, knowing this is accounts for part of their day, even if they are really on their phones txt'ing about me lol. Whatever I do, they are right next to me. I want them to know that med school medicine isn't medicine. You don't just write a note after seeing a patient and run along. NO! There is stuff in the background I'm busting my butt to do while they are at their little didactics or learning how to read a CXR. If they are obligated to be somewhere and can't be at my hip, I tell them!

A couple of us have gone on (SDN) record to report we feel hornswoggled into this life. My interns insulated me from this stuff when I was a student, and I think I should probably be insulating MY med students too. But it creates an unrealistic picture, and I want to keep it real for them so they can't plead ignorance when they Match and start PGY-1 and come on SDN and start griping!

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Intern year DOES suck. Look how long it took me to post on SDN lol (I'm on 2-weeks of vacation!)

There's 23 other IM interns w/ me, and I've heard about 20 of them contemplate quitting w/ all seriousness in their eyes. (The other 3 are just too shy or closed-off I bet lol). 3 weeks into my first Gen Med/Floor rotation, I was so close to it myself. The hours were horrible (except for maybe surgical interns), and no matter how hard I tried to be diligent, I'd just be so tired, I'd make a minor error that my resident would catch (like "nephro recommended TID as opposed to BID, did you change that order?" etc)

So yes, you basically become a glorified secretary "Did you to talk to the CM?" "What did SW say?" "Have all those new orders in by noon conference." "Is the discharge teed up for tomorrow" F***, yes, I know. And this, I feel, is all dumb s*** I could give my med student, if it wasn't like medico-legally required to have a "doctor" (yes I used quotes) on the documentation.

And you can't put 2 or more interns together w/o it still turning into a gripe-fest. This is NOT what I think any of us signed up to do, but at the same time, I don't see any drastic changes coming in the future, so it's best we get ready to deal w/ it and accept it. It's institutionalized hazing, but we DO have to be put through the ringers to be able to be independent practicing physicians.

Whether you quit is still up to you, but know that there is shared misery across the board, that somehow doesn't really go away. It just evolves into a new form of misery every step of the way. Even at the attending level. There's institutional meddling and you have to "play ball" w/ otherwise you get your privileges revoked and the $$ leaves you!!

You can do this! WE can do this!!!! So what if we don't sleep or eat or have fun or want to live anymore. It's what we signed up to do.
I make my medical students (cruelly) aware of this. If I'm doing discharge summaries, they are sitting next to me, knowing this is accounts for part of their day, even if they are really on their phones txt'ing about me lol. Whatever I do, they are right next to me. I want them to know that med school medicine isn't medicine. You don't just write a note after seeing a patient and run along. NO! There is stuff in the background I'm busting my butt to do while they are at their little didactics or learning how to read a CXR. If they are obligated to be somewhere and can't be at my hip, I tell them!

A couple of us have gone on (SDN) record to report we feel hornswoggled into this life. My interns insulated me from this stuff when I was a student, and I think I should probably be insulating MY med students too. But it creates an unrealistic picture, and I want to keep it real for them so they can't plead ignorance when they Match and start PGY-1 and come on SDN and start griping!

I have totally been hornswoggled into medicine.

Hornswoggle. I like that.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I have never been more miserable at a job as i do in medicine. I didnt mind intern yr; this yr in my advanced specialty has been painful beyond words. I hate the people i work with, i hate the specialty, and if theres a financially feasible way out, im gone. No questions asked.

So to the op, you are not alone. Medicine is humiliating, degrading, and frustrating.

Rads worse than IM.

I am sorry for you.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

You know, the terror has started giving way to boredom. I am bored out of my mind by rounds, by the diseases these patients have, by their symptoms, by the boring formulaic treatments we give them, I'm just shocked that more people don't quit out of boredom.

 

[radsswtich]

Rads worse than IM.

I am sorry for you.

You'd be surprised how many people are leaving radiology or changing to different specialities alltogether.

Whether it's due to the inherent nature of the work, the poor job prospects, or other reasons is anybodys guess.

All i know is that when you're not happy in your work, everything in your life suffers. Better to change now than to wait 4 mores yrs to realize you made a mistake.

I suspect i am not the only person that feels this way in his specialty.

 

[thehundredthone]

So yes, you basically become a glorified secretary "Did you to talk to the CM?" "What did SW say?" "Have all those new orders in by noon conference." "Is the discharge teed up for tomorrow" F***, yes, I know. And this, I feel, is all dumb s*** I could give my med student, if it wasn't like medico-legally required to have a "doctor" (yes I used quotes) on the documentation.

You realise your job as a real physician includes exactly this, right? It may not be all of the above all the time, but at some point or another you will be doing things across this spectrum. It really does mean something to have an MD sign off on these transactions, medical students bear zero responsibility from the outcome of these tasks and have no reason to put any thought into the assimilation of the information (although a lot of them are diligent enough to still do so).

I make my medical students (cruelly) aware of this. If I'm doing discharge summaries, they are sitting next to me, knowing this is accounts for part of their day, even if they are really on their phones txt'ing about me lol. Whatever I do, they are right next to me. I want them to know that med school medicine isn't medicine. You don't just write a note after seeing a patient and run along. NO! There is stuff in the background I'm busting my butt to do while they are at their little didactics or learning how to read a CXR. If they are obligated to be somewhere and can't be at my hip, I tell them!

They're already in medical school, their only option is to go into residency. They're smart enough to see what you do all day "in the background". Why not pay it forward by making their experience interesting instead? Even discharge summaries, assuming you have even the least bit of autonomy are a good way to think about the long term for the patient.

A couple of us have gone on (SDN) record to report we feel hornswoggled into this life. My interns insulated me from this stuff when I was a student, and I think I should probably be insulating MY med students too. But it creates an unrealistic picture, and I want to keep it real for them so they can't plead ignorance when they Match and start PGY-1 and come on SDN and start griping!

If your patients teach you anything it should be that no amount of "keeping it real" can prevent someone from pleading ignorance while they gripe about their lives problems.

You know, the terror has started giving way to boredom. I am bored out of my mind by rounds, by the diseases these patients have, by their symptoms, by the boring formulaic treatments we give them, I'm just shocked that more people don't quit out of boredom.

At what point did the field sell to you that there are zebras everywhere and novel experimental treatments to be tried every day?

 

[Arcan57]

At what point did the field sell to you that there are zebras everywhere and novel experimental treatments to be tried every day?

Every depiction of medicine in popular culture sells that idea. It's not just the mythologized medical Holmes and Macgyvers on TV, but even our own written and oral histories invariably paint us as innovators using our brain to wrestle down the scourges of disease. We are dealing with the problem of competency destroying novelty. We could eliminate residencies and then medicine would be a lot more interesting. Or we accept that a less interesting job is in the best interests of the patients for whom we swore to give care.

 

[thehundredthone]

Every depiction of medicine in popular culture sells that idea. It's not just the mythologized medical Holmes and Macgyvers on TV, but even our own written and oral histories invariably paint us as innovators using our brain to wrestle down the scourges of disease. We are dealing with the problem of competency destroying novelty. We could eliminate residencies and then medicine would be a lot more interesting. Or we accept that a less interesting job is in the best interests of the patients for whom we swore to give care.

Popular culture tries to sell us a lot of funny ideas that we don't buy, I don't see why this should be an exception. Medicine is still novel, we just have made strides in ethics that protect patients outside of research studies from some of the ill effects of certain novelties. Lobotomies were a Nobel prize winning idea, remember. Although, as a independently practising physician you'll still be able to do whatever you like, if you're willing to deal with the consequences (and can get informed consent). It's funny how practice methods change when one is no longer able to say "Oh I'm just a med student/resident in training." and bears the full liability instead.

Our written and oral histories still diagnose plenty of issues, medical and otherwise, that are not immediately apparent. As does the magical physical exam machine. Clinical medicine will always remain an art unto itself. Besides, one's always free to have academic discourse about the infinite diagnostic and therapeutic possibilities for every patient under their care.

 

[QofQuimica]

You know, the terror has started giving way to boredom. I am bored out of my mind by rounds, by the diseases these patients have, by their symptoms, by the boring formulaic treatments we give them, I'm just shocked that more people don't quit out of boredom.

It's 95% boredom, but watch out for that other 5%. You never know when the proverbial s*** is gonna hit the fan. I'm talking emotional as well as medical. Especially as you get older, after you have suffered a few more of the slings and arrows life throws at you yourself, your perspective often changes somewhat.

On the bright side, when you're an attending, and you feel like your trainees' presentations are going on too long, it's nice to have the ability to tell the presenter to get to the point already.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

You know, the terror has started giving way to boredom. I am bored out of my mind by rounds, by the diseases these patients have, by their symptoms, by the boring formulaic treatments we give them, I'm just shocked that more people don't quit out of boredom.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand people that feel like this.

The breadth of disease states, situations and problems in general internal medicine is HUGE. I'm always uncovering more **** I don't know, or stuff I thought I understood but didn't. My clinic, for instance, is never boring because I could have to field literally ANYTHING coming through the door - any question, any disease state, any crazy clinical situation, any emergency (and yes they do happen).

Maybe part of this is the 'longview' that comes from being a PGY-3, but while there's many reasons to bitch about medicine, 'boredom' has never been one for me.