Is it too late?

[44station]

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Hi. I have a question. I am currently a senior in High School. I have always been fascinated by emergency medicine. My biggest dream in the world is to become a firefighter. I have always liked the schedule (24/48) and the fact that EMS makes up a large portion of what fire departments respond to.

However, the more I learn about medicine and the more I read about it...the more I want to "do more" and know more. Some background info...I'm an 'average' student...about top 25% in my high school class. I get As and Bs in high school. Something that is interesting is that I'm doing a early college program through my local community college where I will graduate with an associate's degree. Right now I'm admitted to a local university and plan to go there to get my BSN degree so I can have an off-duty job once I'm hired with a fire department. This is my senior year and my schedule is pretty low scale...I don't have an English or Math class (did those over the summer). I'm involved in a couple clubs at school and have been doing a fire department internship for about 3 years now. I finished EMT school last semester in school.

If I wanted to pursue a career in medicine and eventually become a doctor, is there still a shot for me? My gut tells me that it's too late since I didn't give my 100% best in high school (I use to get straight A's in elementary/jr. high but then slacked off in high school; it's just my grades that suffered...by slacked off I don't mean that I got involved in drugs, crime, etc).

If I were to spend 2 years at my local university and get my BSN and work my butt off to get the best grades I can, do I stand any shot against people who have an outstanding academic record? Is there a possible of a lifelong career in medicine for me?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Double Trouble]

If you want to practice medicine more than firefighting, concentrate your efforts on a four year university. If you don't screw up, you will most likely get into a medical school.

 

[Sabio23]

OP, if you truly are interested in medicine go for it. There are people years older than you who have gone back to do the prereqs and get in. Once you get to college, the slate is wiped clean and everyone starts anew. What you did in high school (academically) will matter little. Explore medicine, make sure its what you truly want, and you'll have no problem following the path to med school.

 

[44station]

Double Trouble, thanks for the fast reply!

I have always been attracted to both a career in medicine and firefighting. It's just that for a long time, I didn't think I was "good enough" to become a doctor because of grades in high school. With that said, I focused and gave 100% of me for a career in the fire service.

Now that it's my senior year...I can't help but wonder if a career in medicine is something I still might be able accomplish.

When you say concentrate your efforts on a four year university, are you saying that I should spend 2 years earning my BSN and then try to get into medical school? Will some Bs and *gasp*...a couple Cs on my college transcript (from the 2 year program I'm doing at school) be a killer for my med school app?

 

[NeuralNetwork]

You seem to have a good general idea of what you want for yourself. I'd imagine this will follow you as you progress, and will definitely be of aid to you if you do want to show commitment to the field of health care.

I just have 2 comments for you:

1) High school grades - no admissions committee will ever know about them. You only send them transcripts for college level courses, and even if you got some B's in community college, it won't affect you as much as you think. It is the college grades within your institution (particularly in the prereqs, sciences, and upper divisions) that will make or break you.

2) Do some research on BSN/RN/Nursing --> MD. I have read a lot about how nurses (or people with a background in nursing) have a particularly difficult time with admissions committees for medical schools. Do some searches here, ask around. You might want to consider a more general degree if you aren't sure about what you want as of now.

 

[Double Trouble]

Double Trouble, thanks for the fast reply!

I have always been attracted to both a career in medicine and firefighting. It's just that for a long time, I didn't think I was "good enough" to become a doctor because of grades in high school. With that said, I focused and gave 100% of me for a career in the fire service.

Now that it's my senior year...I can't help but wonder if a career in medicine is something I still might be able accomplish.

When you say concentrate your efforts on a four year university, are you saying that I should spend 2 years earning my BSN and then try to get into medical school? Will some Bs and *gasp*...a couple Cs on my college transcript (from the 2 year program I'm doing at school) be a killer for my med school app?

Yes, they probably will. You gotta be on your game.

 

[44station]

OP, if you truly are interested in medicine go for it. There are people years older than you who have gone back to do the prereqs and get in. Once you get to college, the slate is wiped clean and everyone starts anew. What you did in high school (academically) will matter little. Explore medicine, make sure its what you truly want, and you'll have no problem following the path to med school.

Sabio, would I really ever be able to start anew if I'm going to graduate from high school with an associate's degree from a local community college?

I'm admitted to a local university on a scholarship (basic $6,000/yr general scholarship). I was told to apply as a freshman from my advisor (partly because of better scholarships). I suppose I could start college as a freshman and just never transfer the 2 years I'll have done at the end of high school, right?

 

[sector9]

Moving to hSDN.

Getting a BSN is a bad idea if you know you want to pursue medicine.

 

[StoicJosher]

You are only in high school. It is not too late. Nobody cares about what you did in high school when you apply to medical school (with very very very few exceptions). Advice:

1. Major doesn't matter.
2. Keep up a good GPA.
3. Score well on the MCAT.
4. Engage in activities you enjoy and are meaningful to you.
5. Shadow doctors of different specialties.
6. Get clinical experience and patient exposure.
7. Research if you are interested in that.
8. Be a leader.
9. Have fun! You have all the time in the world. Don't struggle to graduate early from UG.

10. Avoid any Institutional Action or legal problems.
11. Strategize to get to know key professors so you'll have good Letters of Recommendation.
12. Consider a teaching experience (TA, coach, tutor, mentor).
13. Give time to help the needy with an organization you care about.

 

[sector9]

Sabio, would I really ever be able to start anew if I'm going to graduate from high school with an associate's degree from a local community college?

I'm admitted to a local university on a scholarship (basic $6,000/yr general scholarship). I was told to apply as a freshman from my advisor (partly because of better scholarships). I suppose I could start college as a freshman and just never transfer the 2 years I'll have done at the end of high school, right?

When you apply to med school, you will be required to report your community college grades even if you don't transfer the credits on to your next university. You can't selectively report coursework.

 

[44station]

Yes, they probably will. You gotta be on your game.

I'll have to ask my college advisor...but...would it be possible for me to never transfer in the 2 years of coursework I have done and start at a university with a clean slate and spend 4 years getting my bachelors? I figure that if I can start with a clean slate, I'll feel a lot better and be a heck of a lot more cautious with getting Bs or heaven forbid, Cs.

 

[44station]

When you apply to med school, you will be required to report your community college grades even if you don't transfer the credits on to your next university. You can't selectively report coursework.

Ouch. That's gonna be a killer for me, I bet.

 

[sector9]

Ouch. That's gonna be a killer for me, I bet.

What's your current college GPA and how many credits have you taken?

Any idea what your science GPA is (only bio, chem, physics, and math classes-- nursing classes don't count) and how many science credits you have so far?

 

[LazyElemental]

Ouch. That's gonna be a killer for me, I bet.

Not really, a strong performance over 4 years will outweigh the course work you did. If it comes up its easy to explain. It will prevent you from being one of the omgwtf applicants, but as long as you aren't from California (those poor sods) you should be alright.

 

[44station]

What's your current college GPA and how many credits have you taken?

Any idea what your science GPA is (only bio, chem, physics, and math classes-- nursing classes don't count) and how many science credits you have so far?

sector9,

I'm enrolled at two community colleges as part of the early college program. I have 58 hours right now and will have 64 by the end of this (Spring 2012) semester.

I have a 3.25 overall GPA from College #1. I took 28 hours from this college. I took basic biology (for non-science majors) and got a B in it. College algebra was also taken here and I got a B in it also.

I have a 3.379 overall GPA from College #2.

The basic biology and college algebra were the only classes I took that fall into the categories you mentioned. I had another science class but it was (don't laugh)...earth science. I didn't take a physics class at any of the community colleges. I took AP Physics in high school last year and I think I was semi-conscious/delusional about 90% of the time in class.

 

[44station]

Not really, a strong performance over 4 years will outweigh the course work you did. If it comes up its easy to explain. It will prevent you from being one of the omgwtf applicants, but as long as you aren't from California (those poor sods) you should be alright.

LazyElemental, since I'll have to disclose it in my med school app (if I ever make it that far), is this something that I would end up trying to use a good thing? Would I use it to show that I made some bad academic decisions at first but got right and got good grades throughout the 4 years I spent earning my bachelors?

 

[sector9]

sector9,

I'm enrolled at two community colleges as part of the early college program. I have 58 hours right now and will have 64 by the end of this (Spring 2012) semester.

I have a 3.25 overall GPA from College #1. I took 28 hours from this college. I took basic biology (for non-science majors) and got a B in it. College algebra was also taken here and I got a B in it also.

I have a 3.379 overall GPA from College #2.

The basic biology and college algebra were the only classes I took that fall into the categories you mentioned. I had another science class but it was (don't laugh)...earth science. I didn't take a physics class at any of the community colleges. I took AP Physics in high school last year and I think I was semi-conscious/delusional about 90% of the time in class.

@ the bolded.

OK, so right now your cGPA is somewhere around a 3.3 or so with 58 hours. Your BCPM GPA is a 3.0 with like 6 or so hours (earth science would count under "Natural and physical sciences" which is not BCPM, and your AP Physics class won't be used as part of your GPA at all for AMCAS)

You've got a great shot at med school still. What you need is an upward trend, meaning you want to show your GPA climbing for the rest of college.

Your community college coursework will be used along with all of your future coursework to create your cumulative GPA (cGPA). However, AMCAS will also break down your GPA per academic year. Look at this chart to see what I'm talking about (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17928&d=1318294238). Your community college classes will be shown as "High School" GPAs on the chart.

Once you graduate high school and start college full time, you will be working on your "Freshman" GPA on that chart. After a year's worth of work, you'll start working on "Sophomore", and so on.

What you want to show from here on out is that your high school performance in community college is not indicative of your true academic potential. Consider the following scenario for an applicant we'll call 44station:
High school-- 3.32 GPA @ 64 credits
Freshman-- 3.68 GPA @ 30 credits
Sophomore-- 3.73 GPA @ 30 credits
Junior-- 3.75 GPA @ 30 credits

Suddenly, your cGPA is a 3.55 with a strong upward trend sure to be noticed by admissions committees. 3.55 is not a deal breaker at all for osteopathic or allopathic medical schools. In fact, it's above average for DO schools. Since you have a very low number of science and math classes, your sGPA will actually be much closer to what you do during the rest of undergrad than anything you've done so far.

Keep your chin up and keep working toward your goal. I will say that admissions committees are wary of RN applicants so I would advise you against pursuing nursing if you are planning to apply to med school. I've heard that nursing students have a low acceptance rate into med school. If you're not sure which path you want to take, I would encourage you to look into both fields. Maybe you can find a mentor in each and do some shadowing to figure out what you want to do

 

[44station]

@ the bolded.

OK, so right now your cGPA is somewhere around a 3.3 or so with 58 hours. Your BCPM GPA is a 3.0 with like 6 or so hours (earth science would count under "Natural and physical sciences" which is not BCPM, and your AP Physics class won't be used as part of your GPA at all for AMCAS)

You've got a great shot at med school still. What you need is an upward trend, meaning you want to show your GPA climbing for the rest of college.

Your community college coursework will be used along with all of your future coursework to create your cumulative GPA (cGPA). However, AMCAS will also break down your GPA per academic year. Look at this chart to see what I'm talking about (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17928&d=1318294238). Your community college classes will be shown as "High School" GPAs on the chart.

Once you graduate high school and start college full time, you will be working on your "Freshman" GPA on that chart. After a year's worth of work, you'll start working on "Sophomore", and so on.

What you want to show from here on out is that your high school performance in community college is not indicative of your true academic potential. Consider the following scenario for an applicant we'll call 44station:
High school-- 3.32 GPA @ 64 credits
Freshman-- 3.68 GPA @ 30 credits
Sophomore-- 3.73 GPA @ 30 credits
Junior-- 3.75 GPA @ 30 credits

Suddenly, your cGPA is a 3.55 with a strong upward trend sure to be noticed by admissions committees. 3.55 is not a deal breaker at all for osteopathic or allopathic medical schools. In fact, it's above average for DO schools. Since you have a very low number of science and math classes, your sGPA will actually be much closer to what you do during the rest of undergrad than anything you've done so far.

Keep your chin up and keep working toward your goal. I will say that admissions committees are wary of RN applicants so I would advise you against pursuing nursing if you are planning to apply to med school. I've heard that nursing students have a low acceptance rate into med school. If you're not sure which path you want to take, I would encourage you to look into both fields. Maybe you can find a mentor in each and do some shadowing to figure out what you want to do

Wow! Thanks for all the info.

If I'm understanding correctly, it would be in my best interest to go to a University and start out as a freshman trying to improve my BCPM GPA, right? Like I said, I have two BCPM classes with a "B" in each one for a cumulative BCPM GPA of 3.00.

I think I might be underestimating the process of getting into med school (I have no clue how it works)...but if I get a good GPA of lets say...3.5...do I have a shot to get accepted if I am also involved in other extracurricular/volunteer activities?

I can see how a "lower" GPA in the freshman year but increasing each year until my senior year can show that I have potential.

Anesthesiology and orthopedic surgery have been some directions I've been looking into besides emergency medicine. Are those very competitive residencies to get accepted into? I looked into the "MATCH" system but I'm still not exactly how it works.

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[emtthink]

Both of the specialties are some of the most competitve specialties. If you have a 3.5 GPA and do well on the MCAT you have a good chance of getting in. However, sometimes if feels like the admissions process is like playing blind folded darts, it is just so random you really can't know what to expect. For ex. you get accepted to one of your reach schools, but don't even get invited for an interview for one of your safety schools

 

[sector9]

Wow! Thanks for all the info.

If I'm understanding correctly, it would be in my best interest to go to a University and start out as a freshman trying to improve my BCPM GPA, right? Like I said, I have two BCPM classes with a "B" in each one for a cumulative BCPM GPA of 3.00.

I think I might be underestimating the process of getting into med school (I have no clue how it works)...but if I get a good GPA of lets say...3.5...do I have a shot to get accepted if I am also involved in other extracurricular/volunteer activities?

I can see how a "lower" GPA in the freshman year but increasing each year until my senior year can show that I have potential.

Anesthesiology and orthopedic surgery have been some directions I've been looking into besides emergency medicine. Are those very competitive residencies to get accepted into? I looked into the "MATCH" system but I'm still not exactly how it works.

Any advice would be appreciated!

You definitely have a great shot if you have a 3.5 cGPA. See this thread for a better idea of the historical acceptance % for various combinations of GPA and MCAT score http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=888650
I would recommend looking at Figure 1 since I added the approximate MCAT score percentiles to that one

I would recommend starting college with a fresh outlook, keeping in mind that the average GPAs for accepted med students at MD schools are a cGPA of 3.67 and BCPM of 3.61. Both GPAs are important. No need to beat yourself up about past classes or anything.

You will want to get involved with some extracurricular activities while in college. Some things to get started include clinical experience through a combo of clinical volunteering (very common) or clinical employment (less common) or clinical research (rare) AND physician shadowing, research, and nonclinical volunteering. Some other things to consider include teaching/tutoring and leadership positions. In general, you don't want to include any high school stuff on your med school app.

Emergency medicine is not considered to be especially competitive (although it may be getting a little more competitive-- all of the slots were filled this year) while anesthesia and ortho are really competitive. You're thinking way ahead though!