Is it weird to ask my family dentist for a lor?

[Longcatislong]

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Not only has he been my personal dentist since I was age 12, I've also spend the most time shadowing him and talking to him about dentistry since I decided to pursue this profession. I've shadowed him roughly 20 hours so far and he seemed pretty enthusiastic when I told him I was interested in dentistry.

I know 20 hours of shadowing isn't much. I've shadowed other dentists, but not consistently. Also, I feel that he knows me and my personality pretty well.

Would be weird to ask him to do my LOR? Last time i shadowed him was last year. I'm planning on scheduling some more days to observe and ask him then. Yay or nay?

BTW I'm applying this June and trying to get my app stuff in order early.

 

[jmh018]

Some schools don't like it I have heard. I am in the same situation as you. I've known him forever and I did ALL of my shadowing with him. He wrote one for me and it worked out fine. I guess it depends on the school.

 

[Longcatislong]

Some schools don't like it I have heard. I am in the same situation as you. I've known him forever and I did ALL of my shadowing with him. He wrote one for me and it worked out fine. I guess it depends on the school.

How did you discover that schools don't like that? Also, did you already get accepted to dental school?

 

[Poetic Silence]

Conflict of interest and unethical. I don't advise it.

 

[user101]

My dentist also works on my mom and dad. I shadowed her for ~30hrs and she wrote me one..I got 3 acceptances so far, I nvr thought it would be a problem nor do I understand how it could be?

 

[Longcatislong]

Conflict of interest and unethical. I don't advise it.

Sorry, this might sound totally dense and ignorant of me, but in what way is it unethical? Is it violating the doctor-patient relationship?

 

[Poetic Silence]

Sorry, this might sound totally dense and ignorant of me, but in what way is it unethical? Is it violating the doctor-patient relationship?

Precisely.

 

[Longcatislong]

Precisely.

Hmm. Well, I doubt he's going to go too much into my dental records over the years...lol. but obviously I thought enough to ask this forum the question so obviously it's not the most "ok" thing to do. I guess I still have a few months to shadow another dentist and get their LOR instead.

 

[KittySquared]

You can shadow your relative, but I highly recommend you getting letters from non family members. There's a reason why references requested by jobs, bank loans and such require non familial sources - to try to eliminate possibilities of dishonesty and bias.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Hmm. Well, I doubt he's going to go too much into my dental records over the years...lol. but obviously I thought enough to ask this forum the question so obviously it's not the most "ok" thing to do. I guess I still have a few months to shadow another dentist and get their LOR instead.

Poetic Silence is being sarcastic...

You should with out a doubt ask him for a LOR.... he know you well and you have shadowed with him. There is no reason not to. What other dentist would you ask?

 

[Longcatislong]

You can shadow your relative, but I highly recommend you getting letters from non family members. There's a reason why references requested by jobs, bank loans and such require non familial sources - to try to eliminate possibilities of dishonesty and bias.

He's not a member of my family. Just a dentist who's treated me and my mom for a number of years. But yes, I see what your'e saying.

 

[jmh018]

How did you discover that schools don't like that? Also, did you already get accepted to dental school?

I read it on SDN and yes, I am attending Iowa in the fall

Conflict of interest and unethical. I don't advise it.

I don't think it is that big of a deal. My advise would be to call the schools you are going to apply to and see what they say. All I can tell you is my experience which is that I got accepted with a LOR from my family dentist.

 

[Poetic Silence]

You can shadow your relative, but I highly recommend you getting letters from non family members. There's a reason why references requested by jobs, bank loans and such require non familial sources - to try to eliminate possibilities of dishonesty and bias.

Are you being serious?

 

[alucidinterval]

To be honest, I don't think it would matter as long as he doesn't include information regarding how he knows you. I would simply ask him to not include this in the LOR. To those saying it is unethical... understand that getting ahead in almost any industry is more of "who you know" rather then "what you know." If you feel he would write the best LOR for you because he knows you and your passion for the industry best, then by all means take the best option.

 

[JAWSSS]

When I read this title I thought it was a joke... I NEVER thought that people had different feelings about the situation.

YES! Get a letter from this dentist! I got a letter from my family dentist, He has been the only dentist to ever touch my teeth. I am sure he was able to give tons of insight on my desire to become a dentist in his letter. With the help of his letter I was able to (up to this point) attend 8 interviews and get accepted to all 8.

My Dentist's LOR was discussed only once. My interviewer read a section of it to me and said "if he thinks this highly of you, I don't see why I shouldn't" Never did he say, "wellllll.. I dunnooooo.... He seems to have a biased opinion."

Also, (I know I am asking for some upset comments, but....) isn't a "bias" kind of what you want for all of your letters... When you want a good letter from a professor, you go to office hours, you take multiple classes from them, you research for them, you go to a Christmas party at their house if they invite you... you do anything you can so when they write the letter, they have nothing but amazing insight. So, just think of visits to your family dentist as office hours and research... haha.

 

[B Rock Fun]

The dentist that I shadowed and who wrote my letter of rec is the dentist I have gone to my entire life... At NO POINT AT ALL did this ever come up as a problem and I don't see how anyone could think it is... Being biased in this case means the dentist knows even more about you than someone else you shadowed and actually has something great to say about you because they know you extremely well. There is nothing wrong with that, they can just write a more meaningful letter..

 

[Longcatislong]

When I read this title I thought it was a joke... I NEVER thought that people had different feelings about the situation.

YES! Get a letter from this dentist! I got a letter from my family dentist, He has been the only dentist to ever touch my teeth. I am sure he was able to give tons of insight on my desire to become a dentist in his letter. With the help of his letter I was able to (up to this point) attend 8 interviews and get accepted to all 8.

My Dentist's LOR was discussed only once. My interviewer read a section of it to me and said "if he thinks this highly of you, I don't see why I shouldn't" Never did he say, "wellllll.. I dunnooooo.... He seems to have a biased opinion."

Also, (I know I am asking for some upset comments, but....) isn't a "bias" kind of what you want for all of your letters... When you want a good letter from a professor, you go to office hours, you take multiple classes from them, you research for them, you go to a Christmas party at their house if they invite you... you do anything you can so when they write the letter, they have nothing but amazing insight. So, just think of visits to your family dentist as office hours and research... haha.

If this was Reddit, you'd have my up vote 😉

Sent from my LG-MS695 using SDN Mobile

 

[kindasorta]

Conflict of interest and unethical. I don't advise it.

Listen to this guy OP. He's a philosophy major.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Listen to this guy OP. He's a philosophy major.

Shutup. 🙄

 

[cleary21191]

I'd say go for it! I shadowed 7+ dentists and my personal family dentist (who I am not related to) was the best, in terms of the educational experience I gained. Depending on how well you get along and how easy he is to talk to, you could build a valuable network too. A lot of people will say stats are what get you in, but it is just important to know people too. He wrote me a letter of recommendation and has helped me connect with many of his friends from Tufts. A combination of the right stats and the right people can definitely improve your chances significantly! Wish you the best.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Greetings,

If your dentist writes a LOR that demonstrated your sincere and keen interest in dentistry, then I see no problem with it as long as that person is not a family member. DP

 

[predent12]

Conflict of interest and unethical. I don't advise it.

What are you talking about? This absolutely 100% not even remotely true. I had my family dentist write me a letter of recommendation after shadowing him about 30 hours. I've gotten accepted to three schools so far and waiting to hear back from a school. In fact, some schools REQUIRE a letter from a dentist, and they must include the number of hours that you spent with them. Who better to do it than someone who has known you your whole life, and knows your goals and aspirations?

 

[CedarZ4]

What are you talking about? This absolutely 100% not even remotely true. I had my family dentist write me a letter of recommendation after shadowing him about 30 hours. I've gotten accepted to three schools so far and waiting to hear back from a school. In fact, some schools REQUIRE a letter from a dentist, and they must include the number of hours that you spent with them. Who better to do it than someone who has known you your whole life, and knows your goals and aspirations?

I think Poetic Silence misread and thought family dentist as a dentist who is in your family... but I could be wrong.

 

[doc toothache]

Wait! It's ok to get an lor from a practitioner that you shadowed for say 100 hours and have known him/her for a relatively short time, but it is not ok to get a letter from your personal dentist/physician, whom you have know for decades and shadowed?

 

[qdent]

You are completely fine getting a lor from your family dentist. The letters are suppose to be from someone that knows you well and can talk about your character/interests. I shadowed the dentist I've been going to from around age 12 as well and got a pretty good lor from him. You might be advised otherwise if the dentist is a family member.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Wait! It's ok to get an lor from a practitioner that you shadowed for say 100 hours and have known him/her for a relatively short time, but it is not ok to get a letter from your personal dentist/physician, whom you have know for decades and shadowed?

It is the relationship one has with the practitioner. Just as it is unethical for a doctor to be the primary physician of his cancer ridden wife, it is unethical to use your doctor-patient relationship to gain something not related to your health or something for which would not be appropriate for you specifically (marijuana card, narcs, zpaks, etc).

 

[doc toothache]

It is the relationship one has with the practitioner. Just as it is unethical for a doctor to be the primary physician of his cancer ridden wife, it is unethical to use your doctor-patient relationship to gain something not related to your health or something for which would not be appropriate for you specifically (marijuana card, narcs, zpaks, etc).

A discussion on the "ethics" of requesting an lor from a practitioner and the AMA's Code of Medical Ethics should not be in the same chapter, let alone in the same paragraph. An lor from a practitioner is intended to render an objective opinion on whether or not a prospective applicant is fit to become a member of the profession in question. The objection to treating a family member in the case of physicians (Section 8.19 — Self-Treatment or Treatment of Immediate Family Members;https://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics.page?) has to do with the possible loss of professional objectivity and, in your example, of a primary care physician treating an oncology case which would be beyond the expertise and training of a pcp. According to your premise, there must a heck of a lot of practitioners that have committed this "unethical" transgression. Notwithstanding the legal strength of the Code of Ethics, it is interesting to note that all 9 sections of the medical ethics are titled as "Opinion".

 

[RickCo]

A discussion on the "ethics" of requesting an lor from a practitioner and the AMA's Code of Medical Ethics should not be in the same chapter, let alone in the same paragraph. An lor from a practitioner is intended to render an objective opinion on whether or not a prospective applicant is fit to become a member of the profession in question. The objection to treating a family member in the case of physicians (Section 8.19 — Self-Treatment or Treatment of Immediate Family Members;https://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics.page?) has to do with the possible loss of professional objectivity and, in your example, of a primary care physician treating an oncology case which would be beyond the expertise and training of a pcp. According to your premise, there must a heck of a lot of practitioners that have committed this "unethical" transgression. Notwithstanding the legal strength of the Code of Ethics, it is interesting to note that all 9 sections of the medical ethics are titled as "Opinion".

Medical Ethics Coded. Doc is absolutely right. If what the other guy said was true, there'd be like 5 viable candidates for dental school every year...in the country.

Absolutely get one from your dentist. There is ZERO reason not to. I'm pulling this number out of the nethers, but I'd guess at least 90% of applicants have the exact same letter. I know I certainly did.

 

[Poetic Silence]

A discussion on the "ethics" of requesting an lor from a practitioner and the AMA's Code of Medical Ethics should not be in the same chapter, let alone in the same paragraph. An lor from a practitioner is intended to render an objective opinion on whether or not a prospective applicant is fit to become a member of the profession in question. The objection to treating a family member in the case of physicians (Section 8.19 — Self-Treatment or Treatment of Immediate Family Members;https://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics.page?) has to do with the possible loss of professional objectivity and, in your example, of a primary care physician treating an oncology case which would be beyond the expertise and training of a pcp. According to your premise, there must a heck of a lot of practitioners that have committed this "unethical" transgression. Notwithstanding the legal strength of the Code of Ethics, it is interesting to note that all 9 sections of the medical ethics are titled as "Opinion".

Ethics are like math, it's a process to getting the correct answer. Morals are the "right" and "wrong." Ethics are how you conclude right or wrong.

Anything with the potential to negatively affect the doctor-patient relationship or remove the barrier of objectivity then it is wrong.

Let's say your family dentist said, "I'm sorry, but I do not feel comfortable writing you a LOR. I do not feel you have what it takes to become a good dentist."

How would you, that doctor's patient, feel about that? Would you feel comfortable going back to that dentist for care or would your resentment lead you to look elsewhere for another dentist?

Answer me that.

You are putting the dentist in a position where he must give in to your demands or risk losing your business.

 

[JAWSSS]

HAHA!

Looks like Poetic Silence got a bad letter from a dentist...

If a professor told you "hey, I don't know if I should write a lor for you because I don't really think you would make a great dentist." Your logic would require that student to immediately withdraw from classes and start an application to transfer to another university. (much like the AMA, universities have student-teacher codes of conduct).

I wonder what a letter would look like from someone that you shadowed for 50 hours and did not know the outside of that.

"This student... well... wants to become a dentist, as exhibited by his/her (I can't recall) extensive 50 hours of shadowing... He/she can complete such skills as: walking, lighthearted banter, stealing break-room doughnuts, etc. I slightly recommend him/her for acceptance."

 

[goffdent]

Ethics are like math, it's a process to getting the correct answer. Morals are the "right" and "wrong." Ethics are how you conclude right or wrong.

Anything with the potential to negatively affect the doctor-patient relationship or remove the barrier of objectivity then it is wrong.

Let's say your family dentist said, "I'm sorry, but I do not feel comfortable writing you a LOR. I do not feel you have what it takes to become a good dentist."

How would you, that doctor's patient, feel about that? Would you feel comfortable going back to that dentist for care or would your resentment lead you to look elsewhere for another dentist?

Answer me that.


You are putting the dentist in a position where he must give in to your demands or risk losing your business.

So If the doctor's office burns down and he decides just to retire instead of rebuild, you can no longer see him and have essentially been "negatively affected." That's not ethics..

This whole conversation is ridiculous. Take this example... You are allowed to have a professional relationship with your doctor, and a personal relationship. Just because you're a patient doesn't mean you can't be on your dentist's bowling team on Tuesday nights. That's NOT unethical. Then let's say you went up to him and said, i'd really like to apply to dental school, could you write me a letter of recommendation? If he says yes, he is saying it as if you are anybody else off the street who's not a patient. You are just a person at the bowling alley who he knows. If he said no, fine! don't go to him, nobody says you have to remain going to him, there are plenty more dentists down the street. What he can't do is "abandon" you as a patient.... that would be unethical. You would be leaving on your own accord because you're upset he said no. TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

http://www.ada.org/sections/about/pdfs/code_of_ethics_2012.pdf

some light reading.

 

[doc toothache]

Ethics are like math, it's a process to getting the correct answer. Morals are the "right" and "wrong." Ethics are how you conclude right or wrong. Anything with the potential to negatively affect the doctor-patient relationship or remove the barrier of objectivity then it is wrong. Let's say your family dentist said, "I'm sorry, but I do not feel comfortable writing you a LOR. I do not feel you have what it takes to become a good dentist." How would you, that doctor's patient, feel about that? Would you feel comfortable going back to that dentist for care or would your resentment lead you to look elsewhere for another dentist? Answer me that. You are putting the dentist in a position where he must give in to your demands or risk losing your business.

Unreasonable demands by patients are made daily, like initiating a treatment before insurance goes into effect or predating treatment for an expired coverage. One would hope that an answer to an unreasonable request would not necessarily include the qualifier you suggested; that would come under the heading of diplomacy, not to mention that a request does not preclude an lor from being confidential. A quid pro quo patient may not be the most desirable patient to have in the practice.

 

[JAWSSS]

Some schools don't like it I have heard. I am in the same situation as you.

Can someone name ONE school that does not "like" it? Where would that be said?

I have read pretty much every school's FAQ section and I have never read:

"Q: Can I get a letter from the dentist that I shadow that also happens to be a dentist that I go to for all of my dental work?

A: No. That is unethical and will not be considered a proper letter from a dentist and therefore will not be used to fulfill your recommendation letter requirement for admission."

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Ethics are like math, it's a process to getting the correct answer. Morals are the "right" and "wrong." Ethics are how you conclude right or wrong.

Anything with the potential to negatively affect the doctor-patient relationship or remove the barrier of objectivity then it is wrong.

Let's say your family dentist said, "I'm sorry, but I do not feel comfortable writing you a LOR. I do not feel you have what it takes to become a good dentist."

How would you, that doctor's patient, feel about that? Would you feel comfortable going back to that dentist for care or would your resentment lead you to look elsewhere for another dentist?

Answer me that.

You are putting the dentist in a position where he must give in to your demands or risk losing your business.

Greetings,

If the person knows the dentist well enough then that kind of respond is unlikely to occur. Consider this fictional case. Say I have a college grad student who is my patient. This person is very keen about the dental procedures and had asked many good questions about the rationales of the treatment provided. From interaction and conversation with this young lad, I can tell that he is very passionate about the career in dentistry and I am very impressed with his knowledge and dedication to the field. Now, if he asks me to write a letter then I will be happy to do so because I believe he will make a positive contribution to the field. This is based on my positive professional judgement from knowing him as a person. Now, consider this case which is true in my practice. I once had a patient who told me that he is planning to apply to DS. He once asked me how many years it takes to become a maxillofacial prosthodontist. I told him 4 year residency/fellowship after dental school. He then ROLLED his eyes and said " Nah, 4 years??? What you do is easy. I can even do it faster and better than you". Now if he comes and asks me for a LOR, will I write him one? Heck no! Not because he is my patient but simply put, he does not have what it takes to be a dentist. Will I say that straight to him? No, but I will say in a way that it does not hurt doctor/patient relationship. DP