Is it worth applying?

[ScienceBeforeHoes]

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Alright, so I want to go to medical school. The problem is I dicked around most of my freshman and sophomore years not doing what I was supposed to. Because of this, I only have a 2.8 GPA. I studied super hard for the MCAT and scored a 39, which I feel like should definitely prove that even though I got a C in freshman chemistry, I know the material. The point is, I don't have the money to apply to a whole lot of medical schools. Is it reasonable that a school would accept me/ should I spend the money on it? O, also I have lab experience, volunteer hours, and I am a Division I athlete (still white unfortunately).

 

[Ace-Co-A]

2.8 will be screened out at many schools

 

[lmn]

You would be screened at many schools due to your gpa. I would look into doing a post-bacc or SMP if you can.. Congrats on the great MCAT though

 

[ace12345]

Yeah this cycle probably isn't going to happen, but get that GPA up and you'll certainly get some looks. Could think about GPA remediation for DO programs as well (I know little about this, but I've heard it recommended quite a bit. Something to look into).

 

[prdv]

nice username man.

 

[aspirantmed]

I believe a 2.8 is well below the cut for both MD and DO schools; you will likely be screened out of consideration. Your best shot is probably a post-baccalaureate program with a linkage to one or more medical schools, but you should know that this will take money (or some pretty hefty loans).

 

[el_duderino]

Monster MCAT, but med schools want to see a lot more than pure ability. They want to see application.

You need to raise that GPA.

 

[CCrown]

I checked through the MSAR and the lowest 10th percentile GPAs I can find are U of New Mexico 3.17, Commonwealth Medical College 3.19, and Cooper 3.21 (with the exception of maybe 2 HBCUs since you said you're white). Keep in mind those are 10th percentiles too, meaning out of all their accepted students, 9 out of 10 had GPAs higher than that.

Your MCAT is incredible, but you'd probably be screened out of almost every school with a 2.8. Definitely check out post-baccalaureate programs to raise the GPA

 

[Goro]

You'll get rejected from every MD school with a 2.8 GPA, unless you have a 4.0 for years 3 and 4. A discordant MCAT/GPA might simply mean you're a really good standardized test taker too.

Retake every F/D?C science course and apply to DO schools. Otherwise, do an SMP and ace that.

Alright, so I want to go to medical school. The problem is I dicked around most of my freshman and sophomore years not doing what I was supposed to. Because of this, I only have a 2.8 GPA. I studied super hard for the MCAT and scored a 39, which I feel like should definitely prove that even though I got a C in freshman chemistry, I know the material. The point is, I don't have the money to apply to a whole lot of medical schools. Is it reasonable that a school would accept me/ should I spend the money on it? O, also I have lab experience, volunteer hours, and I am a Division I athlete (still white unfortunately).

 

[UlahSnackbar]

Idk, your GPA is bad, I would have doubts that you could handle the curriculum . Great MCAT. Though an MCAT only shows you can study hard one time as opposed to the long haul which is reflected by your GPA. I think you should do a postbacc or SMP.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Like others have said, even though you rocked the socks off of the MCAT, your GPA will get you pre-screened out right away. If you do manage to sneak through the filter and land a secondary, you'll just be throwing $100 per school down the drain. Not the news you wanted to hear, right?

So don't give up! You have an uphill battle ahead that will take one, maybe even *gasp* two years before you're a viable contender. I know that sounds like forever when you're a young 20-something, but if you work on developing a solid plan now that time will pass by before you know it.

To fix your GPA you'll need to:
1) Retake your worst classes and apply to an osteopathic (DO) school. They offer grade forgiveness which means even though you earned a C in chemistry your freshman year, if you retake it now and earn an A that's all they'll care about in regards to calculating GPA. This is different from allopathic (MD) schools which would average the two grades together.
2) Go through an SMP. It's the closest thing you can get to Year 1 of med school without actually being in med school in terms of academics (and cost).
3) Enroll in a formal post-bacc program, or take classes a-la-carte at a university. You'd want to consider retaking anything you earned a C in, as well as a handful of upper level science classes.
4) Do some research on Caribbean schools so you can learn for yourself what a horrible, horrible idea that would be. Seriously. You'd be better off eating a poop hotdog than wasting your time there.

You'll also need to ensure you have all the other stuff schools look for - clinical exposure, shadowing, good letters of reference, community service, and maybe research. You should also look into how 'old' MCAT scores will be treated after the new MCAT rolls out next year. I know nothing about how this will work.

There's years and years worth of information on SDN to help people who have been in similar situations. Use some of the advice offered in here as a starting point and spend the next two weeks learning everything you can about the admission process, then come back with whatever questions you still have unanswered.

Good luck!

 

[HinduHammer]

Personally, I see no harm in applying this year. The worst that can happen is that you'll be a reapplicant and will have fixed your GPA by then making you a stronger candidate. The best that can happen is that you get in this year and everything else is moot!

 

[lmn]

Personally, I see no harm in applying this year. The worst that can happen is that you'll be a reapplicant and will have fixed your GPA by then making you a stronger candidate. The best that can happen is that you get in this year and everything else is moot!

If you just have thousands of dollars to spend on apps maybe, but unless your parents are sitting pretty and giving you all the money you could possibly want, why throw away so much money on apps that will get screened at most places?

 

[el_duderino]

Personally, I see no harm in applying this year. The worst that can happen is that you'll be a reapplicant and will have fixed your GPA by then making you a stronger candidate. The best that can happen is that you get in this year and everything else is moot!

Because applications are expensive and a huge pain in the butt.

 

[LaceyMD]

Personally, I see no harm in applying this year. The worst that can happen is that you'll be a reapplicant and will have fixed your GPA by then making you a stronger candidate. The best that can happen is that you get in this year and everything else is moot!

The harm is that applying to medical school is VERY expensive and time-consuming, not to mention emotionally taxing. Unfortunately, the simple fact is that with a 2.8, OP is well below the bottom 10th percentile for every medical school out there, meaning he has about a 0% chance of acceptance and a 100% chance of wasting his time and money despite the fabulous MCAT score.

A much better use of said time and money would be to work on improving the GPA, applying to an SMP or post-bacc, and improving his stats to give himself a decent shot when he does apply in another application cycle.

 

[HinduHammer]

If you just have thousands of dollars to spend on apps maybe, but unless your parents are sitting pretty and giving you all the money you could possibly want, why throw away so much money on apps that will get screened at most places?

Because applications are expensive and a huge pain in the butt.

The harm is that applying to medical school is VERY expensive and time-consuming, not to mention emotionally taxing. Unfortunately, the simple fact is that with a 2.8, OP is well below the bottom 10th percentile for every medical school out there, meaning he has about a 0% chance of acceptance and a 100% chance of wasting his time and money despite the fabulous MCAT score.

A much better use of said time and money would be to work on improving the GPA, applying to an SMP or post-bacc, and improving his stats to give himself a decent shot when he does apply in another application cycle.

Shrug, 1. As an economist by training, I tend to see things in NPV. For me, the NPV of a few hundred or even thousand dollars with a say 20% chance of admission would be worth it. I also think one gains a lot by the whole application process - forcing you to take a look at your activities, application, essays, forming a cogent narrative for your candidacy, etc. I believe its all beneficial. The time spent in this endeavor I believe will be beneficial, all the more so if OP gets in this cycle. 2. I again personally believe there is a lot of negative nancies on SDN. OP has a great MCAT, D1 athlete and other stuff. Perhaps some family reasons or other event caused them to have poor academics earlier on. With a good PS, who knows, maybe his/her state school will give them love.

And finally, 3. I have a 2.8 c and bcpm GPA and will be applying. I had awful grades in undergrad and a 4.0 in two years of post-bacc. Am I confident I will get in? Of course not, but for me its worth it to apply for many reasons and I am encouraging OP to do so if they share my POV.

Lastly, I hate when people say "its all fine and dandy if your parents are paying for everything" -- the implication is that to disagree with your opinion means that you are well-off and/or spoiled, which I resent on many levels. FWIW, I work 2 minimum wage jobs, but I also happen to save money for the important stuff. Like med school applications.

 

[el_duderino]

Shrug, 1. As an economist by training, I tend to see things in NPV. For me, the NPV of a few hundred or even thousand dollars with a say 20% chance of admission would be worth it. I also think one gains a lot by the whole application process - forcing you to take a look at your activities, application, essays, forming a cogent narrative for your candidacy, etc. I believe its all beneficial. The time spent in this endeavor I believe will be beneficial, all the more so if OP gets in this cycle. 2. I again personally believe there is a lot of negative nancies on SDN. OP has a great MCAT, D1 athlete and other stuff. Perhaps some family reasons or other event caused them to have poor academics earlier on. With a good PS, who knows, maybe his/her state school will give them love.

And finally, 3. I have a 2.8 c and bcpm GPA and will be applying. I had awful grades in undergrad and a 4.0 in two years of post-bacc. Am I confident I will get in? Of course not, but for me its worth it to apply for many reasons and I am encouraging OP to do so if they share my POV.

Lastly, I hate when people say "its all fine and dandy if your parents are paying for everything" -- the implication is that to disagree with your opinion means that you are well-off and/or spoiled, which I resent on many levels. FWIW, I work 2 minimum wage jobs, but I also happen to save money for the important stuff. Like med school applications.

Looks like this is your first cycle, and you haven't gone through the emotionally draining, expensive, and time-consuming process of secondary applications... nor have you had to deal with the emotionally difficult process of a failed cycle.

It sucks.

 

[LaceyMD]

@HinduHammer , that's all well and good for you, but OP's post specifically mentions not having much money to apply and being concerned about whether it would be a good use of his money to apply this year. All we're doing is making a recommendation based on that. It's not being a "negative nancy," it's being realistic. OP doesn't state where in his schooling he is, but sounded to me like he was still in undergrad, and he doesn't indicate that there was any upswing in his GPA, which makes his situation very different than yours.

 

[HinduHammer]

Looks like this is your first cycle, and you haven't gone through the emotionally draining, expensive, and time-consuming process of secondary applications... nor have you had to deal with the emotionally difficult process of a failed cycle.

It sucks.

You may have a point there. It is my first cycle, so I don't know about that. Just hoping for some IS love!

 

[lmn]

Shrug, 1. As an economist by training, I tend to see things in NPV. For me, the NPV of a few hundred or even thousand dollars with a say 20% chance of admission would be worth it. I also think one gains a lot by the whole application process - forcing you to take a look at your activities, application, essays, forming a cogent narrative for your candidacy, etc. I believe its all beneficial. The time spent in this endeavor I believe will be beneficial, all the more so if OP gets in this cycle. 2. I again personally believe there is a lot of negative nancies on SDN. OP has a great MCAT, D1 athlete and other stuff. Perhaps some family reasons or other event caused them to have poor academics earlier on. With a good PS, who knows, maybe his/her state school will give them love.

And finally, 3. I have a 2.8 c and bcpm GPA and will be applying. I had awful grades in undergrad and a 4.0 in two years of post-bacc. Am I confident I will get in? Of course not, but for me its worth it to apply for many reasons and I am encouraging OP to do so if they share my POV.

Lastly, I hate when people say "its all fine and dandy if your parents are paying for everything" -- the implication is that to disagree with your opinion means that you are well-off and/or spoiled, which I resent on many levels. FWIW, I work 2 minimum wage jobs, but I also happen to save money for the important stuff. Like med school applications.

Sure it's only a "couple thousand dollars" now vs. an extra $1xxk in the future, but that few thousand dollars are likely a huge amount of money to them now, and could be used to take out that much less loans in the future. Sure losing a year sucks, but if you can easily take a year or two off and majorly improve your application, then do it to improve your overall chances without wasting a year applying and the money.

You very obviously haven't gone through an application cycle, especially not a failed one, the entire process is extremely draining and taxing on you mentally and physically - even for the people who receive an acceptance on the first date. Ask some of the reapplicants on here about how their cycle years were, I really doubt that many loved the process of doing all their primary, secondaries, interviews, update letters, LOI's and loved the anxiety of waking up each and every day hoping for II's or for an acceptance. I personally couldn't even imagine how painful a failed cycle would be and how hard it would be to have to put yourself through another cycle, and I would avoid putting myself in the likely situation of a failed cycle if I could easily just take a gap instead and fix my app.

 

[HinduHammer]

Sure it's only a "couple thousand dollars" now vs. an extra $1xxk in the future, but that few thousand dollars are likely a huge amount of money to them now, and could be used to take out that much less loans in the future. Sure losing a year sucks, but if you can easily take a year or two off and majorly improve your application, then do it to improve your overall chances without wasting a year applying and the money.

You very obviously haven't gone through an application cycle, especially not a failed one, the entire process is extremely draining and taxing on you mentally and physically - even for the people who receive an acceptance on the first date. Ask some of the reapplicants on here about how their cycle years were, I really doubt that many loved the process of doing all their primary, secondaries, interviews, update letters, LOI's and loved the anxiety of waking up each and every day hoping for II's or for an acceptance. I personally couldn't even imagine how painful a failed cycle would be and how hard it would be to have to put yourself through another cycle, and I would avoid putting myself in the likely situation of a failed cycle if I could easily just take a gap instead and fix my app.

Well, agree to disagree I suppose. And yes, it is my first cycle. Upon reading the thread again, perhaps OP could use some time off to mature and fix his grades. The comment about "still being white" does not scream ready for a medical education.

 

[kavorca]

I think the 39 would pull your application off the pile of sub-3.0 apps and get a look. I would apply, but I can only speak for myself.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

If you have some good ECs you might stand a chance at your state school, unless there is a screen

 

[lmn]

I think the 39 would pull your application off the pile of sub-3.0 apps and get a look. I would apply, but I can only speak for myself.

OP, I do believe some schools practice this policy of negating gpa screen with an MCAT over a certain score. If you do plan on applying this year, I would really spend a lot of time trying to figure out schools that practice this method, and target them primarily (in addition to non-screening schools).

 

[jared_the_great]

Call up your in-state schools' admissions depts and say, "I'd like to apply this year with a 2.8 gpa and a 39 MCAT. If I do, will my application get a fair shake, or will I be pre-screened?"

 

[listener23]

Idk, your GPA is bad, I would have doubts that you could handle the curriculum . Great MCAT. Though an MCAT only shows you can study hard one time as opposed to the long haul which is reflected by your GPA. I think you should do a postbacc or SMP.

He has a 39 mcat... The curriculum cant handle him....

 

[nwh170412]

Idk, your GPA is bad, I would have doubts that you could handle the curriculum . Great MCAT. Though an MCAT only shows you can study hard one time as opposed to the long haul which is reflected by your GPA. I think you should do a postbacc or SMP.

Or maybe he went to a hard undergrad and didn't try as hard as he needed to. All my older premed friends went to crappola schools where they got near 4.0s and then they took the MCAT and got scores in the teens. Clearly they never learned to study. The MCAT is the equalizer for a reason.

 

[ace12345]

Applying now would be ridiculous. No student that is working hard and intends to get into competitive graduate programs - be they medical school, law school, PhD, etc. - should be getting a 2.8, regardless of school The curriculum varies by institution, but not that much. A 2.8 is a huge red flag, regardless of MCAT.

Clearly the OP is very smart, you need to be to get a 39, but something went on that negatively affected their study skills during undergrad. Maybe it was a family thing that interrupted their focus. Maybe they went out 5 nights a week (In college, this one is surprising common, and something that can absolutely tank GPAs in otherwise very intelligent students). Whatever it is, something happened and the OP now needs to show that he/she can operate at a high academic level for sustained periods of time to be competitive.

 

[LegendaryPunk]

Shrug, 1. As an economist by training, I tend to see things in NPV. For me, the NPV of a few hundred or even thousand dollars with a say 20% chance of admission would be worth it. I also think one gains a lot by the whole application process - forcing you to take a look at your activities, application, essays, forming a cogent narrative for your candidacy, etc. I believe its all beneficial. The time spent in this endeavor I believe will be beneficial, all the more so if OP gets in this cycle. 2. I again personally believe there is a lot of negative nancies on SDN. OP has a great MCAT, D1 athlete and other stuff. Perhaps some family reasons or other event caused them to have poor academics earlier on. With a good PS, who knows, maybe his/her state school will give them love.

As somebody went through an unsuccessful cycle last year, I agree with you on this point. I learned a ton about the process, which I think was very beneficial towards strengthening my app this year. I'm very glad to have the experience.

However, going through the process takes MONTHS. And when you're in the middle of things, you're not focusing on how to apply for the next cycle. Finally, after I was done I was burnt out to the point that I spent a couple more months doing almost nothing in regards to preparing for the next cycle. Like I said, I'm glad to have the experience, but I have no doubt in my mind that I would be even more prepared had I abandoned last cycle (as I was tempted to do) and started focusing on this cycle right away.

Also, in regards to OP having 20% chance of admission...no way. Most schools have acceptance percentages in the low single digits. And those are for applicants with average stats. Having a GPA below the 10th percentile, along with applying late and other gaps...I'm not going to pull a number out of thin air, buy do you really think he'll have a chance of getting accepted to 1 out of every 5 schools he applies? 🙄

And finally, 3. I have a 2.8 c and bcpm GPA and will be applying. I had awful grades in undergrad and a 4.0 in two years of post-bacc. Am I confident I will get in? Of course not, but for me its worth it to apply for many reasons and I am encouraging OP to do so if they share my POV.

Good luck!

 

[lmn]

Or maybe he went to a hard undergrad and didn't try as hard as he needed to. All my older premed friends went to crappola schools where they got near 4.0s and then they took the MCAT and got scores in the teens. Clearly they never learned to study. The MCAT is the equalizer for a reason.

Read some of LizzyM's post, for a select few schools that are known to be grade deflators, they know how to convert their gpa's to everyone elses', you can ask LizzyM, but I would be more inclined to guess that this may mean a 3.5 (good gpa) is maybe more on the level of a 4.0 (top notch gpa), not that a 2.8 is a good gpa or necessarily shows them to be competent academically.

OP is in an extreme version of the unbalanced gpa/mcat, so despite our best guesses, s/he largely would have a huge gamble applying with their current stats

 

[Zelda840]

Call up your in-state schools' admissions depts and say, "I'd like to apply this year with a 2.8 gpa and a 39 MCAT. If I do, will my application get a fair shake, or will I be pre-screened?"

^^This is what I would do.

 

[ninjaman22]

Shrug, 1. As an economist by training, I tend to see things in NPV. For me, the NPV of a few hundred or even thousand dollars with a say 20% chance of admission would be worth it. I also think one gains a lot by the whole application process - forcing you to take a look at your activities, application, essays, forming a cogent narrative for your candidacy, etc. I believe its all beneficial. The time spent in this endeavor I believe will be beneficial, all the more so if OP gets in this cycle. 2. I again personally believe there is a lot of negative nancies on SDN. OP has a great MCAT, D1 athlete and other stuff. Perhaps some family reasons or other event caused them to have poor academics earlier on. With a good PS, who knows, maybe his/her state school will give them love.

And finally, 3. I have a 2.8 c and bcpm GPA and will be applying. I had awful grades in undergrad and a 4.0 in two years of post-bacc. Am I confident I will get in? Of course not, but for me its worth it to apply for many reasons and I am encouraging OP to do so if they share my POV.

Lastly, I hate when people say "its all fine and dandy if your parents are paying for everything" -- the implication is that to disagree with your opinion means that you are well-off and/or spoiled, which I resent on many levels. FWIW, I work 2 minimum wage jobs, but I also happen to save money for the important stuff. Like med school applications.

I am sorry, but the OP does not have a 20% chance of admission.

 

[jared_the_great]

I am sorry, but the OP does not have a 20% chance of admission.

Right. Based on AAMC data, a white applicant with a 2.8 gpa and 39 MCAT has about a 47% chance of acceptance somewhere.

 

[lmn]

I am sorry, but the OP does not have a 20% chance of admission.

Since I'm sure it will come up: https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/2012factstable25-4.pdf

But this should be taken with extreme caution. As some of our adcom members have said in the past, these acceptances can very often be non-trads who had a bad undergrad and then massive reinvention later in their life causing the lower gpa to be overlooked. Further, this may also include people with extraordinary EC's that have done extremely great things and then shown they are reinvented with their strong mcat. Also not to be forgotten are legacies or those whose parents donate strongly to the school or have some other strong ties to admissions. These samples of <10 people aren't a good indicator, and if I was the OP, I wouldn't bet that these 30-40% rates would stand up for me.

 

[lmn]

Right. Based on AAMC data, a white applicant with a 2.8 gpa and 39 MCAT has about a 47% chance of acceptance somewhere.

See my reasoning above why this data shouldn't be taken at face value. Also you shouldn't take the highest percentage for where the OP's stats are literally the bottom of that range both for gpa and MCAT, at least average it with the surrounding cells.

 

[jared_the_great]

See my reasoning above why this data shouldn't be taken at face value. Also you shouldn't take the highest percentage for where the OP's stats are literally the bottom of that range both for gpa and MCAT, at least average it with the surrounding cells.

You're right. If we combine those four cells then we have n=106 instead of n=17. And the percentage works out to 39%.

 

[jared_the_great]

And those AAMC data only count MD acceptances (I wasn't sure so I contacted AAMC and they confirmed this).

I would still maybe call adcoms ahead of time to discuss the unique circumstances, but overall it seems like odds aren't too bad for being accepted this round.

 

[lmn]

And those AAMC data only count MD acceptances (I wasn't sure so I contacted AAMC and they confirmed this).

I would still maybe call adcoms ahead of time to discuss the unique circumstances, but overall it seems like odds aren't too bad for being accepted this round.

Correct, DO is a completely different system not covered by AAMC.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are adcoms out there that would be interested in the OP's great mcat, upward trend (maybe? OP didn't state clearly), as well as being a D1 athlete. The hard part is finding these schools, the OP could easily apply to 20 schools and not find one that would be interested. I do think the OP could have a successful cycle, it would just be a lot of working deciding what schools they have a real chance at, and still a pretty big gamble and potential waste of time if they could have been instead doing a post-bacc or something to improve their gpa.

 

[QuentinT88]

First of all OP congrats on the 39 MCAT. It will help you greatly once you apply.

Second of all, a 2.8 gpa is low for MD schools. It doesn't matter if you are yellow, brown, blue, purple, orange, black, white or whatever. Most people of any race do not get into Med school with a > 3.0 gpa. So don't use your race as an excuse.

Third, before applying. you could (a) work on taking a few upper level sciences courses (b) apply for a post bacc or (c) apply for a masters/SMP. Your grad gpa will help you demonstrate your ability.

Best of luck

 

[IlDestriero]

I would apply to your state schools. And apply for a post bac. Go to whichever you get into.
I skimmed the comments, but he said he had a bad 1st 2 years, so he must have an upward trend.
It won't cost thousands of dollars to apply to a handful of schools and a year of lost income will be at least $200k, possibly several times that. I'd take the risk. Though it would depend on his grades in the last 2 years. A 2.4 to 3.2 isn't the same as a 2.0 to a 3.7.

 

[lmn]

I would apply to your state schools. And apply for a post bac. Go to whichever you get into.
I skimmed the comments, but he said he had a bad 1st 2 years, so he must have an upward trend.
It won't cost thousands of dollars to apply to a handful of schools and a year of lost income will be at least $200k, possibly several times that. I'd take the risk. Though it would depend on his grades in the last 2 years. A 2.4 to 3.2 isn't the same as a 2.0 to a 3.7.

I would agree that this is probably the best way to go assuming he did have a strong upward trend (unsure how strong due to his reference to a C in gen chem) and if depending on how truly tight his/her finances are and/or if they can qualify for the fee assistance program. OP I would definitely get started on the post bacc at the same time if at all possible, it could help you with the current cycle, and definitely for a possible future cycle or DO application.

Although the OP hasn't even posted on this thread since making it, who knows if they are even bothering to read this...