Is it worth becoming a psychiatrist if your primary interest is mental health?

[DTFM]

I am trying to decide whether I want to be a top-level mental health care provider (Psychiatrist MD) or a mid-level provider (Clinical Psychologist Psy.D/Ph.D). I am primarily interested in mental health, which is why the training involved in becoming a clinical psychologist appeals to me over that of a psychiatrist as it focuses solely on mental health issues. However, I realize that the training a psychiatrist goes through, while not always related to mental health, makes them the superior profession, as they have more knowledge of the human body, the brain, and medicines to treat mental illness. I just want to hear a few opinions about whether it is worth going through training that isn't really as interesting to me but will make me a better mental health expert.

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[Sneezing]

I am trying to decide whether I want to be a top-level mental health care provider (Psychiatrist MD) or a mid-level provider (Clinical Psychologist Psy.D/Ph.D). I am primarily interested in mental health, which is why the training involved in becoming a clinical psychologist appeals to me over that of a psychiatrist as it focuses solely on mental health issues. However, I realize that the training a psychiatrist goes through, while not always related to mental health, makes them the superior profession, as they have more knowledge of the human body, the brain, and medicines to treat mental illness. I just want to hear a few opinions about whether it is worth going through training that isn't really as interesting to me but will make me a better mental health expert.

This is something you will have to figure out yourself.

Start thinking about the cost/benefit ratio of each profession in the things that matter to you.

You've read these forums undoubtedly and already have an idea of the two fields. But I believe you already answered your own question. See the bolded above.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Read this.

 

[235750]

You've read these forums undoubtedly and already have an idea of the two fields. But I believe you already answered your own question. See the bolded above.

If you don't enjoy human biology, then don't go to medical school.

Simply put, medical school is a lot of crap. By that I mean there seems to be an endless cycle of hoops to jump through in order to get to the destination of 'psychiatrist'. It seems to me that if you aren't going to enjoy the process, then you should not apply. As far as I know, there are no schools that have psychiatry classes in their preclinical curriculum. Knowing this, would you still enjoy it?

I'm a first year medical student, and while my main interest is psychiatry, I also enjoy anatomy and most other things. If you have absolutely no excitement about biochemisty or learning how the human body works, it's going to be a rough couple of years.

Good luck to you
EDIT
I would only consider PsyD/PhDs as midlevelers if they have a MS in psychopharmacology

 

[whopper]

I was in your same situation. I was a psychology major who loved the behavioral sciences.

Its worth it to go to medical school if
1) you are willing to deal with hard core sciences (not the social sciences--I'm talking the biological and physical). Most psychology majors I've seen cannot stand these science classes. In medschool, you will be given these types of classes on an order of 20-30 credits per term. Its not just a matter of tolerating these classes. You must master them, and at an seriously fast and difficult pace.

2) You are willing to have a very limited social life for years. Expect to have no life your first 2 years of medschool. My first 2 years of medical school, I pretty much only had half a day to myself a week, and that time had to be spent managing my life (e.g. paying bills, buying groceries, cleaing the apartment). The rest of the week, you will be studying at an incredibly difficult pace. You can have a semi life your last 2 years. Expect again to have no life during your first 2 years of residency. You might have a life your last 2 years depending on the residency.

On the other hand, most psychologists I've seen throughout their schooling had enough free time to have a social life of sorts.

3) You are willing to learn a medical-centric model of treating mental illness. You are not as likely to learn several behavioral and psychotherapeutic approaches as much as a psychologist would. Though some programs are exceptions to this rule.

4) Kinda on the same order as #3-You are willing to study incredibly large amounts of data that do not directly deal with mental health. While all fields of medicine converge at some points, and as doctors we have to know how to interact with the other fields, prepare to have to understand pancreatic cancer, diabetes, hypertension, myocardial infarctions etc whether you like it or not. Yes these do have important implications in mental health, however several psychology majors I've seen wouldn't touch this stuff with a 10 foot pole. The way it relates to mental health at least for me wasn't appreciated until years down the road because only then did I start to see how it all related. Its also not taught in a manner to entertain those who want to go into psychiatry. When medical professors teach about heart attacks, they teach it as if you're the guy who needs to treat it, not as the psychiatrist who has to keep it under consideration in relation to mental health.

5) You don't mind studying and working under extreme situations. You're hard core. Ok, yes I'm sure that happens too in psychology graduate programs, though I'm sure not every single one. Pretty much every single medstudent I've met has been through that "is it humanly possible to know this amount of information" situation--which presents different in all of us E.g. one starts taking the equivalent of 10 cups of coffee a day through caffeine pills to keep up, starts pulling all nighters 3-4x a week, gets a script of adderall even though they don't have ADHD, willing to stay up till 2am in the anatomy lab every weekend, etc. Plus you're going to have to deliver babies, do surgery, suture a wound, literally sawing a person in half with a sears craftsman saw using all your might for hours from their penile urethra all the way up to the top of the skull, being in an ER, and seeing some guy with bullet wounds literally dumped in front of the hospital by people who then quickly drive away. That's very hardcore vs studying from a book and interviewing someone.

I'm a first year medical student, and while my main interest is psychiatry, I also enjoy anatomy and most other things. If you have absolutely no excitement about biochemisty or learning how the human body works, it's going to be a rough couple of years.

Exactly where I was at. I knew I wanted psychiatry from the start. So why then did I have to memorize every freakin hole in the skull, or deliver 40 babies? Well I did.

Its one thing to tell someone to suffer a few months learning things that don't seem to correlate, but its another thing to have to go through years of it, at an intense pace, and then only after that long journey was crossed do you understand why a lot of it is relevant. When you do consult liason psychiatry so much of that medical knowledge does come into play. You may not see that now, but you will later on. It also becomes relevant in inpatient (e.g. you get a guy off the psychiatry unit because you discover the guy has brain cancer, and not psychosis.) When you prescribe meds to pregnant patients, that data from embryology starts coming into play.

I'm not going to lie and claim all of it was relevant--I still don't understand how memorizing how the histology of hair follicles exactly helps me treat someone with mental illness, and yes hair follicle histo questions did appear on my USMLE Step 1.....

 

[Bluemirage]

It seems to me that if you aren't going to enjoy the process, then you should not apply. As far as I know, there are no schools that have psychiatry classes in their preclinical curriculum. Knowing this, would you still enjoy it?

This is not entirely true. Every school has at least 1 block of psychiatry either incorporated into their neuroscience block or on its own as part of the second year curriculum. There is a decent chunk of psychiatry, psychopharm and behavioral sciences in USMLE Step 1.

 

[peppy]

whether it is worth going through training that isn't really as interesting to me but will make me a better mental health expert.

Psychologists are not inferior to psychiatrists. In most of the psych settings I've worked in, PhD psychologists were considered the peers of the psychiatrists, just performing a different role (more testing and psychotherapy rather than addressing the medication and organic aspects of mental illness). There are research psychologists who are doing important and valuable work that will ultimately help a lot of mentally ill people.
My point is: Don't go to med school just because of ego reasons (I don't mean "ego" in a critical way - we all have some degree of ego after all).
Wanting to be "the best" is not much consolation if you find you really don't enjoy the work.

 

[Abacab]

The many replies above have summed things up pretty well. Med school trains physicians, not only psychiatrists in particular. You will find that med school has very, very little psychiatry in its curriculum.

Training to be a physician is difficult enough even if you actually like science/anatomy/physiology/biochemistry, etc...

Even when you finish med school, you have to do an internship year which involves a lot of internal medicine and neurology and you may often find yourself working 30 hr shifts and up to 80 hrs a week.

Med school, compared to grad school, will require a lot more sacrifices with respect to your social life, family, finances...

All psychatrists are physicians first. From what I gather, it doesn't sound like that interests you. You may be much happier as a psychologist.

By the way, I would not really classify a Ph.D. level psychologist as a mid-level provider.

 

[235750]

This is not entirely true.

Technically, you are correct.

At the med school I taught at, the second year students had 5 one-hour classes about psychiatry. At the school I currently attend, we have 6 one-hour classes.

Med schools do teach psychiatry as you say, but 5-6 hours in two years....that's not really anything worth mentioning.

 

[Doc Samson]

Technically, you are correct.

At the med school I taught at, the second year students had 5 one-hour classes about psychiatry. At the school I currently attend, we have 6 one-hour classes.

Med schools do teach psychiatry as you say, but 5-6 hours in two years....that's not really anything worth mentioning.

There are many schools out there with longitudinal behavioral health components (1-2 hours/week) throughout 1st and 2nd year.

 

[Bluemirage]

Technically, you are correct.

At the med school I taught at, the second year students had 5 one-hour classes about psychiatry. At the school I currently attend, we have 6 one-hour classes.

Med schools do teach psychiatry as you say, but 5-6 hours in two years....that's not really anything worth mentioning.

Wow! I didn't realize some schools offered so little psych. I just assumed that every school was like mine. We had 3 weeks worth of psych (4 hours of lectures a day + weekly psych movies+ psych shadowing opportunities)= 60+ hours worth of psych lectures and a comprehensive psych block exam. I never even thought of psych before med school. It was my second year psych class that got me interested.

 

[pingouin]

Technically, you are correct.

At the med school I taught at, the second year students had 5 one-hour classes about psychiatry. At the school I currently attend, we have 6 one-hour classes.

Med schools do teach psychiatry as you say, but 5-6 hours in two years....that's not really anything worth mentioning.

In our M2 year, we do an 8-week block of psychiatry, with 3 hours of lecture every Monday morning and 2 hours of small group one day later in the week. That's a total of 40 classroom hours. Additionally, I'm at a school that uses a 50%+ PBL curriculum, and within our cases we've already had exposure to major depression, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders/panic attacks, autism and other PDDs, ADHD, and a substantial number of psychotropic meds (including SSRIs, SNRIs, atypical and typical antipsychotics, anti-convulsants, benzos, opioids, and CNS stimulants).

Based on my experience and other posts here, I don't think it's safe to generalize about the amount of psych is taught in the pre-clinical years.

 

[erg923]

However, I realize that the training a psychiatrist goes through, while not always related to mental health, makes them the superior profession, as they have more knowledge of the human body, the brain, and medicines to treat mental illness.

I am not sure what the term "superior" means in this context. For example, I know many psychologists that are superior to psychiatrists in psychotherapy. Similarly, I know many MSWs who are superior therapists to seasoned psychologists. I know many psychologists who are superior (or at least more thoughtful) diagnosticians than some psychiatrists. However, I know many psychiatrists who are great diagnosticians as well. Obviously, psychiatrists will have superior knowledge of organ systems and psychopharm, as of course they should...this is often their focus. "Superior" really doesnt mean squat if its not the right fit for your career goals, right? None has superior knowledge of mental health, and the profesions are working form different frameworks. Unless you have the answer the proverbial $64,000 question, then no profession is "superior" to the other.....catch my drift?

PS: I would venture a (very educated ) guess that most clinical neuropsychologists have a much better understanding of functional neuroanatomy, cognition, and theories underlying cognitive neuroscience than your average psychiatrist....as this is their focus.

 

[notdeadyet]

As far as I know, there are no schools that have psychiatry classes in their preclinical curriculum.

At the med school I taught at, the second year students had 5 one-hour classes about psychiatry. At the school I currently attend, we have 6 one-hour classes.

The two schools you're familiar with have extremely weak psychiatry training. Given that basic psych training is important for pretty much any patient-oriented medical specialty, it's giving its students bad preparation for a bunch of fields.

Most med schools have much more extensive training than that. Ours was a full second year course, about the same hours as for pulmonology, more than the hours for dermatology, less than the hours for cardiology.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

We had a behavioral science class our whole first year and one semester in our second year. Add that to the 6 weeks of psychiatry rotation in 3rd year, and I'd say psych is actually fairly well represented. Way more than 6 hours. Since behavioral sciences are a pretty significant part of Step 1 and Step 2, I have trouble believing schools would not adequately cover them.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I am trying to decide whether I want to be a top-level mental health care provider (Psychiatrist MD) or a mid-level provider (Clinical Psychologist Psy.D/Ph.D).

That is incorrect.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

That is incorrect.

As peppy mentioned, psychologists are equivalent level providers to psychiatrists just with a different emphasis/scope of practice. Midleve; providers are PAs and nurse practitioners. Also, becoming a clinical psychologist is not an easy path. From my understanding, admission can be about as competitive as medical school (if not more), and it is a doctorate level program complete with lots of hard work.

 

[sunlioness]

Based on my experience and other posts here, I don't think it's safe to generalize about the amount of psych is taught in the pre-clinical years.

Mine was pretty much nil. It was an "afternoon class" in the second half of my first year and it was coupled with ethics. It didn't get a lot of respect. Still that was the only class in my first two years of med school that I actually honored.

 

[pingouin]

Mine was pretty much nil. It was an "afternoon class" in the second half of my first year and it was coupled with ethics. It didn't get a lot of respect. Still that was the only class in my first two years of med school that I actually honored.

I understand that every school is different, which is why I stated I didn't think gross generalizations were appropriate to make. Aside from myself, 3 other posters have said that their psych-related curricula are more intensive than what iloveDrStill has experienced. As Doctor Bagel said, the Steps are starting to integrate it more and more into the exams in recent years- much to the chagrin of most of my classmates.

My psych block starts in two weeks, and I'm with you- if I honor anything all year, that's going to be it. The rest of the block is respiratory, cardiovascular, GI, and renal pathophys so it'll be interesting to see how much they try to tie it in with those. (PBL and Intro to Pt Care/Psych are two different classes.)

 

[235750]

I understand that every school is different, which is why I stated I didn't think gross generalizations were appropriate to make.

Good call. I had no idea that the level of psych exposure ranged so much. I stand corrected Pingouin

Aside from myself, 3 other posters have said that their psych-related curricula are more intensive than what iloveDrStill has experienced.

Now knowing this, it doesn't change my original answer to the author of the OP.

While the variability in psych exposure across schools is important, it makes no difference in this case.

Whether it's 6 or 60 hours spent on psych, they are both drops in the bucket. The ratio of psych to hardcore science classes is still not to the point where I'd say, "there is enough time spent on psych that you should put up with the other crap for 4 years". Don't you agree?

 

[Sneezing]

The other "crap" is what makes a psychiatrist a psychiatrist. You are a physician first. That knowledge and experience is what makes the prescribing psychologist an insult to the profession and patients they purport to serve. Psychiatry training doesn't just stop in the preclinical years. You see psych patients on internal medicine. You see them in surgery seeking procedures for lesions that aren't there. You see them in family medicine, neurology, pain. Psychiatry is embedded in every rotation and all facets of medicine. Radiologist, "Why does this stomach have so many objects in it?"

The 'crap' you speak of is necessary. My medical education will not ultimately be seen superfluous. If you believe it is then I suggest you drink more caffeine to open your eyes a little more.

 

[235750]

The other "crap" is what makes a psychiatrist a psychiatrist. You are a physician first...The 'crap' you speak of is necessary. My medical education will not ultimately be seen superfluous.

Of course not. That's not what I was saying.

If you read my first post, 'crap' was describing the grueling process of medical school. Yes, I think most of it is necessary to be a good physician (and therefore to be a good psychiatrist). As Whopper quite humorously pointed out, some parts of the process are less vital than others.

What I was saying was in response to the OP. That is, he/she does not seem to particularly enjoy the biological sciences, so 'crap' in this case was all of medical school minus the 6-60hrs of psych. That's obviously not my opinion because as I said I enjoy most aspects of medical school.

 

[notdeadyet]

Whether it's 6 or 60 hours spent on psych, they are both drops in the bucket. The ratio of psych to hardcore science classes is still not to the point where I'd say, "there is enough time spent on psych that you should put up with the other crap for 4 years". Don't you agree?

Yes. If someone has a great interest in psychology but no general interest in medicine, medical school is a bad choice.

But psychiatry is not unique in this regard. If someone has a great interest in pulmonology, nephrology, neurology or any specialty, but no general interest in medcince, medical school is probably not the right path. Any given specialty turns into a "drop in the bucket" when you add up the hours.

Regardless of your specialty, be it psychiatry or cardiology, most of your first two years of medical school is focused on general medicine, which is an integration of many basic sciences. You have to have a love of the process of how all this science interplays and use it clinically. If you don't, med school is a waste of time and you're MUCH better off with a PhD.

True of any field in medicine. It's no more true for psychiatry than any other specialty.

 

[whopper]

However, I realize that the training a psychiatrist goes through, while not always related to mental health, makes them the superior profession

I don't agree with this, in fact within the confines of the actual job, I don't think its practical to think along these lines.

The janitor who worked on my unit did his job well. His services were needed. I had more respect for him than a lot of doctors I've seen who did mediocre jobs. Yes, the difficulty in getting into medical school..etc is more difficult, but when you're working, what matters is if the people you're with get the job done, and done well.

Psychologists will be your colleagues as a psychiatrist, and will have knowledge of areas that you were not trained in that can be very helpful.

And even assuming that one field is "superior" to another-it doesn't matter unless you are enjoying it, it satisfies your financial needs and goals, and you do your job well. If a psychologist loves his or her job, and a psychiatrist hates his or her job, it doesn't really matter then which is "superior."

IMHO, the medical training can serve as a distractor to several psychiatrists. I've seen too many psychiatrists focus too much on medications, or throw a medication without much justification. "Well I thought he had a bad day, so I gave him prozac." I've seen psychologists in general use more objective behavioral criteria, and have a better eye for behavioral details than psychiatrists from my own anectdotal experience. Now that is a generality, and there are of course exceptions. Bottom line: it depends on the person, and just as much as a psychiatrist can snub a psychologist because our training was harder-so too can a neurosurgeon snub a psychiatrist.

What matters most is if you do the job you feel is right for you, and you do that job well. I'd pick a lot more psychologists to work with him in a practice then a lot of my fellow psychiatrists.

 

[235750]

But psychiatry is not unique in this regard. If someone has a great interest in pulmonology, nephrology, neurology or any specialty, but no general interest in medcince, medical school is probably not the right path. Any given specialty turns into a "drop in the bucket" when you add up the hours.

I disagree. I think many specialties are better represented in medical school than others, especially in the preclinical years.

Xrays, MRIs, cat scans, etc are used in gross anatomy, and the future radiologists in the class get a taste for their desired specialty every day. We have surgeons in gross lecture constantly reminding us how the structures relate to real life pathologies and operations. And in histology the pathologists get to live their dream of looking at slide after slide

I think it's one thing to say, "I have an interest in psychiatry" (which is my stance) versus the OP who says "the only thing I care about in medicine is psychiatry." And in response to your point about that being applicable to all branches of medicine, I think as a general interest, it is easier to divorce psychiatry from medicine than most other specialties.

A future pulmonologist, for example, will presumably find dissection of the respiratory system fascinating. He/she will be excited to follow tthe phrenic/vagus innervation of the diaphragm/lungs, etc. We've spent a lot of time listening to lungs and lung sounds on computers. In histology we discuss clara cells and other immunilogical features of the lungs. So, it would difficult to comprehend how a future pulmonologist could claim that they hated all of gross anatomy, histology or immuniology, for example.

I can see where Whopper and the OP are coming from. While general medicine does form the basis of psychiatry, it is unlike any other branch. This is one of the reasons why I love it. Psychiatryinvolves analyzing mental health disorders which aren't always so tangible. From working at inpatient clinics, my understanding is that a psychiatrist is less likely to look at an xray of a pt's head and more likely to chat with a colleague about abstract concepts. I would be interested to hear what psychiatrists would say about this, perhaps I am completely off base. This sounds like what Whopper is saying when he says that the medical training can sometimes be a 'distraction'

I have to go now, but I don't want this to be deleted, so I'll post this incomplete thought anyway

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I have to go now, but I don't want this to be deleted, so I'll post this incomplete thought anyway

When you have a long post it is sometimes easier to drop it in a Word Doc or Notepad file and then copy and paste it over, just in case you get timed out or something funky happens. I've lost some great posts because I've started something and walked away. You can adjust your cookies, but that can be hit and miss.

 

[whopper]

This sounds like what Whopper is saying when he says that the medical training can sometimes be a 'distraction'

The medical training is important. I should clarify. Psychiatrists (and in fact any doctor) shouldn't be giving out medications unless its appropriate.

A common trend I've seen is a doctor has a patient, patient has a complaint, doctor gives out a medication without going through with the proper signs and symptoms analysis to give at least something with some semblence of a DSM disorder. E.g. "doctor I'm depressed because my television broke"--response--> doctor gives the person an antidepressant or a benzo.

I wrote the word "distraction" because I've seen too many doctors simply rely on red flag and cues to jump to the decision to take a medical course of action. The doctor is not relying on objective signs and symptoms of the DSM, or even relying on enough of the person's subjective complaints. This is a mode of thinking common in American medicine where doctors rely on labs more so than in poorer countries where they do not have labs, and the doctor is forced to rely on good clinical skills and observations.

The psychiatrist needs to think in the latter model. However the bulk of our training is heavily based on non-psychiatric training that is heavily dependent on the black and white model of "if the test is positive, then you do this." Several non-psychiatric doctors as we've all seen on consult service rarely practice good clinical skills. E.g. they'll order a capacity consult for a patient who refuses a procedure, and that doctor has not even explained what the procedure is, the risks and benefits of it etc.

Think about it. How many psychiatrists or PCPs have you seen that has a patient that upsets them and they slap a dx of Bipolar without going through all the DSM critera? Or throws ativan at a patient with the above description? Too many from my experience.

From my experience, I've also seen psychiatrists more quick to disregard the psychosocial model, and only jump on the biological model. I've seen psychologists use all 3 components in a more balanced manner. He's depressed?==>Antidepressant, and the psychiatrist puts much less emphasis on the psychosocial aspects of the person's depression. IMHO this is from relying on training that adheres too tightly to the medical model where the bulk of the training is memorizing histo slides, seeing x-rays, and throwing a diagnosis and treatement in the shortest time possible because the resident is suffering from lack of sleep.

I have seen this problem happen far less with psychologists-who do not have a medical model of training, nor can they simply throw a medication at a person, and were more willing to listen to patients for longer periods of time.

Of course good medical practice does involve practicing good clinical skills, so It would be wrong to simply put it as medical training is a "distraction" and my previous comment can understandibly lead to misinterpretation. Good medical training will involve good clinical skills and observation....but several doctors seem to have a notion that real medicine is simply cut and dry, only biological, and do not regard the psychosocial model which IMHO is one of the reasons why non-psychiatric medical doctors don't like psychiatry, and don't see it as "real" medicine.

 

[235750]

The medical training is important. I should clarify. Psychiatrists (and in fact any doctor) shouldn't be giving out medications unless its appropriate.

I understand what you're saying, I apologize if I misrepresented your view at all. In the past when you mentioned having delivered babies (dozens I think?), you seemed to be criticizing medical school training. The sense I got from reading your posts was that some areas of your training were more helpful to your current position then others. I think doctors should have OB experience, for example, but the number you mentioned seemed a tad overboard!

Really though, I think we're all on the same page. Medical school is necessary, difficult, etc, and only do it if you like general medicine.

PS thanks for the tip therapist4change, but i actually post from public computers and can't use a word processing program

 

[whopper]

No need to apologize. I was the person who didn't write the message in the best way possible. I am glad that you did get my intended message.

 

[hkusp]

Due to the tone of the OP question, I would not be surprised if they were a troll. Most people who have knowledge of the medical/psychiatric/psychology field know that there is no simple path that you can take to be “superior.” Most respected practitioners realize they will never be “superior” as the more knowledge you have the more you realize you need others to help you. Having an MD or PHD does not make you superior in any sense of the word. That mental schema is not going to take you very far in our very specialized and very difficult world.

While most on this forum are familiar with the rigors of medical (and they are rigourous) not much is known about the education of psychologist. Let me assure you, getting into medical school is difficult, as is getting into a PhD program. I finished my residency being right in step with the senior psychiatry residents (we all felt old!). Research shows that to be a full licensed psychologist from college freshman to full licensure is about 11 years. Does that make anyone superior, not in the least. My undergrad grades were a 4.0 but that didn’t help me get into grad school…most everyone has a 4.0. I did 4 year undergrad, 2 years Master’s (with hundreds of clinical hours), and 4 years for a PhD (with many thousands of hours of clinical work) and then a one year postdoc (with another few thousand hours). I also spent thousands of hours doing research, teaching University classes, supervising medical/psychology students, writing a dissertation (about a 1000 hours), writing grants, etc., etc., etc. Again, my average hours per week was about 70 but sometimes ran into 80 or 90.

Not that is really matters, but to provide some scope, an average clinical psychology program has around 150 applicants for 5 to 6 slots. Feel free to look that up in the APA’s guide to graduate school for each University. My residency class had 100 applicants with 6 openings (www.appic.org). So, getting into medical school isn’t “harder” it is just different. Physicians have very difficult paths to take and I have great respect for them. I love most things medical..but not enough to make it my life's work.

To address your question, if you like mental health then you will certainly need to put away any need for superiority. You will constantly be humbled by your Patients. I am a psychologist but I need the biological expertise of a physician/psychiatrist. Yes, I know about biological influence of behavior as it is my ethical duty to know what is going on with my Patients. Do I know what a psychiatrist/physician does...uh no. Do they know what I know...no, of course not. That is why we WORK together.

I work with PTSD and traumatic brain injury. On our team, the psychiatrists need us to provide long term changes brought about by therapy. I need their help to stablize the person. A stupid simple example is getting sleep stabilized to access implied/implicit memories. If they aren't getting enough REM sleep, theorists would argue that there is little cortical consolidation of their memories, thus not allowing the orbitofrontal cortex/ventral medial to facilitate hippocampal processing. And I could go on blah blah about the whole process. Take home message...it is your ETHICAL duty to know what is going on with your Patient and your education only begins when you finish your formal schooling.

Find out what you want to do but don’t be guided by your ego. The best person is the one who works with others from a sense of gratitude and respect for the expertise of others.

 

[RGMSU]

DO NOT EVER GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL UNLESS YOU ARE 110% COMMITTED TO IT. PERIOD. NEVER. I AM THAT COMMITTED TO IT AND IT IS STILL A MAJOR PAIN. I know some people in my class who are already trying to quit. This is not for the weak at heart, AT ALL. Like somebody else said, one hoop after another after another after another. Follow your passion. Find the one thing that you would do no matter what, and do it. For me, that's medicine. An MD isn't for everybody. Neither is a PhD.

 

[whopper]

Having an MD or PHD does not make you superior in any sense of the word. That mental schema is not going to take you very far in our very specialized and very difficult world.

Agree. I'm in fellowship, and hope to be triple or quadruple boarded before I end my formal education. Psychiatry, as any medical or mental health field is an ever learning journey so my education will never end--until I die or retire.

So let me declare this now. If I ever walk into a psyche unit while being triple or quadruple boarded and announce myself as superior to all the single boarded, and board eligible psychiatrists and other staff or doctors--you have my permission to shoot me.

My wife is working as a counselor, and the psychiatrist in her treatment team doesn't know what the heck he's doing. E.g. he's telling someone with PTSD from being repeatedly raped to go up to her rapist and confront him, while she is still having severe PTSD and panic attacks. He will not increase her SSRI (its no where near the maximum) and is throwing benzos galore at her even though she keeps telling him she doesn't want to get addicted to them. That psychiatrist frequently insists to his treatment team to be seen as the leader and as superior to everyone else. Since the agency can't replace him, the treatment team has to grin and bear it.

The point of being a doctor is to heal, not to brag about how smart we are, and how society owes us for being saviors. There really is no point in feeling "superior" to others when working in the field. Your customer will be someone who is likely on the bottom of the socioeconomic scale, and your responsibility to heal that person will not be better served if you see yourself as superior to him or her.

 

[thepsychiatrist]

This is a very interesting post/question you are debating on. Both fields are similar and even if one field seems to give you the knowledge that makes you more of an expert, I feel it is still not enough since your passion lies with the opposite field of study.

You can obtain as much knowledge as you can absorb but remember that the motivation to get up and do your "JOB" will come like a fire when you are passionate about what you do.

It will not feel like a "JOB" if you have a passion for doing it. So I feel you should go where your passion lies and the rest will play itself out!

Hope that helps!

 

[Ibid]

The janitor who worked on my unit did his job well. His services were needed. I had more respect for him than a lot of doctors I've seen who did mediocre jobs. Yes, the difficulty in getting into medical school..etc is more difficult, but when you're working, what matters is if the people you're with get the job done, and done well.

Domestic cleaning staff are often the only chance inpatients get to have an ordinary conversation. Everyone else is either ill or has their voice distorted by studied professionalism or worse.

Your customer will be someone who is likely on the bottom of the socioeconomic scale, and your responsibility to heal that person will not be better served if you see yourself as superior to him or her.

OK enough. Clearly now you are just using a remote device to suck thoughts out of my head and pass them off as your own.

 

[notdeadyet]

This is a very interesting post/question you are debating on.

Or an interesting quote were were debating on. The threads almost two years old...

 

[moevanGOFREE]

I am trying to decide whether I want to be a top-level mental health care provider (Psychiatrist MD) or a mid-level provider (Clinical Psychologist Psy.D/Ph.D). I am primarily interested in mental health, which is why the training involved in becoming a clinical psychologist appeals to me over that of a psychiatrist as it focuses solely on mental health issues. However, I realize that the training a psychiatrist goes through, while not always related to mental health, makes them the superior profession, as they have more knowledge of the human body, the brain, and medicines to treat mental illness. I just want to hear a few opinions about whether it is worth going through training that isn't really as interesting to me but will make me a better mental health expert.

"people fear the unknown.
I am unknown,therefore,I am fearful." - Moe
whatever u do just do it for the right reasons not money...and change some peoples lives so they dont have to suffer every second of the lives like i do...no one deserves to suffer the way i do...so do it for the help of the mentally ill...because we didnt ask for these problems and many cant afford the help. the military will soon kick me out with no benefits for be messed up and i will not be able to afford help or even hold a normal job....change the world and change lives...because some wish they didnt have theres and those r who need help the most...like me.

 

[MirDeeDee]

Hi. I'm not really sure if this is the right place to post this question (more like series of questions) or not, but since this is the post that I stumbled upon while doing some research, this is the post I think I'll ask on.

I am a high school senior who is highly interested in mental health, and I first and foremost would just like to ask for any general advice from students/professionals in this field. I don't really know anyone in this field, and would love to hear what you have to say about your experiences, etc.

Also, I was wondering if anyone could honestly tell me the pros and cons to psychology and psychiatry. I am not positive which of these two I would rather end up in, and I just thought that asking a group of people who have experience would be a good way to see some of the major differences.

Also, I have read some of the above posts that talk about med schools with a small focus in psych, and I was wondering where those of you whose schools had a larger concentration attended.