Is it worth it to join the Honors College?

[mg17]

Does being in the honors college at your university help at all on med school applications? At my university being a member of the honors college lets you schedule classes earlier than other students but it comes with so many strings attached that I don't know if it's worth it in the end.

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[KnightDoc]

Does being in the honors college at your university help at all on med school applications? At my university being a member of the honors college lets you schedule classes earlier than other students but it comes with so many strings attached that I don't know if it's worth it in the end.

Truly, nobody cares. If they did, the fact that you go to a school that even has an honors college probably wouldn't help! There are raging debates here on SDN as to whether or how much going to an Ivy or a T20 UG gives someone a boost. An "honors college" within a state school? Not at all.

Maybe taking honors classes might possibly mean something, because there is an indicator for that on the AMCAS application. But, honors college? No. That's just a label, really used for nothing more than marketing to high stat students at state schools. Med schools are totally not impressed with it. Do what works best for you now. Med schools will not care either way.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Does being in the honors college at your university help at all on med school applications? At my university being a member of the honors college lets you schedule classes earlier than other students but it comes with so many strings attached that I don't know if it's worth it in the end.

Depends on what the advantages are and the impact on GPA. If they let you pick classes early it may help her higher GPA but if they have strict course requirements it may go other way. Do you need to take certain number honors classes? If so do you like those classes?

 

[LizzyM]

I disagree somewhat with @KnightDoc .... I do see applicants who mention this in the work-activities section, usually in conjunction with a thesis required by the honors college and I see reviewers who comment positively on that enrollment and that the GPA was from an honors college rather than the general population of the school.


Also, priority registration can help you get a schedule that works for you rather than being stuck in whatever is available after the honors group registers.

 

[zorcandpals]

The advantages are typically from the resources and extra attention you get from being connected with an honors college not necessarily the name/prestige of being in the honors college itself. In my experience at 2 different schools, honors courses tend to be relatively grade inflated so that can be a plus too.

Can you spell out the strings attached?

 

[KnightDoc]

I disagree somewhat with @KnightDoc .... I do see applicants who mention this in the work-activities section, usually in conjunction with a thesis required by the honors college and I see reviewers who comment positively on that enrollment and that the GPA was from an honors college rather than the general population of the school.


Also, priority registration can help you get a schedule that works for you rather than being stuck in whatever is available after the honors group registers.

I am very pleasantly surprised to hear you say this, but am now more confused than ever! 🙂 When first doing research for UG, I was told that med schools did not care where you attend school, and that they only cared about how well you did. It turns out, years later, that's not really true, and that UG prestige is somewhere between low and high importance to adcoms, AAMC survey results notwithstanding. Even you previously posted that there was a continuum of UG prestige that adcoms did indeed place value on, with the Ivies and other T10s at the top, and that it trailed off after T20 or so.

So, to drill down a little in your response and give the OP the answer he is really looking for, what does an honors college at an otherwise unranked school do for a med school applicant? Does it mitigate going to an unranked school? If not, that's probably really what OP is getting at here, since OP is apparently not seeking out the extra work because it's its own reward. Or is all the extra work just a nice-to-have, which one could presumably seek out independent of membership in an honors college if one were so inclined?

I'm so confused!!!! 🙂

 

[deleted1108964]

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[RespectTheChemistry]

I highly recommend it for the soft advantages, including the ability to live in the Honors dorm if you are going to live on campus where people are reportedly less rowdy. You are welcome to place research experiences for which you earned course credit on your activities section. I regret not applying for the Honors College because it would have allowed me more opportunities for undergraduate research. The theses you can do for those, especially as a science major, are often helpful research experiences for med school.

I know LizzyM already responded to you. I notice you are new (Welcome!). If you were not already aware, she's an admissions committee member ("ADCOM" in SDN speak) at a Top 20 medical school. 🙂 She's always right.

 

[Goopy]

I think this question is better suited for people at your university. Talk to current students in the college and ask what they think. Bonus points if you find someone that decided against it or left the college and ask why they did that.

Whether or not an honors college is worth it depends a lot on what membership in that college entails. Is it just a label and shows that you took harder classes? Then idk how much that helps. But does it allow you access to more resources and opportunities that will help you succeed? Then maybe it will help your application indirectly.

At my institution, being in the honors program gave me access to smaller honors classes which makes it easier for someone to participate in class and build relationships with the professor (get rec letters). That's only one of several different advantages an honors program can give though.

But ultimately, I don't think you should make the decision based on how much it will help your app. You should decide based on how membership in the honors college will change your undergrad experience. And if that is worth all the strings that are attached, then go for it. If your institution is like mine, then you can just leave the program without consequences if you don't like it.

Personally, the main benefit for me was living in the honors dorm which introduced me to some of my best friends. Does that help on an app? No. But was it worth it for me? Yup. 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

At my institution, being in the honors program gave me access to smaller honors classes which makes it easier for someone to participate in class and build relationships with the professor (get rec letters). That's only one of several different advantages an honors program can give though.

^^^^ That's one advantage my kid had. Small class sizes and type of projects they do in honors classes increases chances to get strong LORs.

 

[KnightDoc]

@KnightDoc attending a rigorous undergrad can make up for lower benchmarks. Our MD panel presented the way they evaluate academics, and it was along the lines of 0-3 rating for MCAT and GPA and 0-2 rating for undergrad for a maximum of 8 with some multiplier. Not sure exactly how it works but it is certainly a factor. Fwiw this med school is a t10. I have also heard more subjective things from my MSTP mentor who is on the panel at our school but his...ideas...seemed to be a product of maintaining an image/pedigree rather than actual benefit towards students.

Keep in mind this is at a top research school. I doubt mid-tiers or other schools scrutinize this much about your undegrad. I don't know though. I think it depends a lot on the school and reviewer.

Yup, I agree. Thoughts on this seem to be all over the place. Does rigorous = prestigious? Hopkins is certain rigorous. Harvard not so much. So, does Harvard receive the lowest score since it's the most inflated? Somehow, I doubt it. That leads directly into what an "honors college" at an otherwise run of the mill school is worth. Hearing @LizzyM say at least some folks at her school even notice it is very encouraging and unexpected.

 

[mg17]

The advantages are typically from the resources and extra attention you get from being connected with an honors college not necessarily the name/prestige of being in the honors college itself. In my experience at 2 different schools, honors courses tend to be relatively grade inflated so that can be a plus too.

Can you spell out the strings attached?

I'm required to do an honors course per semester but all of the honors courses that are readily available are difficult to do. I'm trying to keep a lighter workload during the semester that I take the MCAT so that I can study but doing honors courses might cause problems. Also, there isn't a separate honors dorm and I'd rather not do the honors versions of my major classes because they're known to be more difficult, even if the classes are smaller.

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm required to do an honors course per semester but all of the honors courses that are readily available are 3 credits each and difficult to do. I'm trying to keep a lighter workload during the semester that I take the MCAT so that I can study but doing honors courses might cause problems. There are a few easy 1-credit honors courses but they are available less than once every two years so my odds of getting them are very low.

If you go back to @LizzyM's comment, it seems as though adcoms are more impressed by the extra scholarly work, such as an honors thesis, that goes along with it, rather than just having a notation on your transcript because you took the minimum number of honors classes. If you are not interested in actively engaging in all of those "strings," I'm not sure you will get what you are looking for from the experience (i.e., a med school admission boost). Hopefully @LizzyM will confirm or deny.

 

[LizzyM]

The place it typically gets mentioned in the application is in the work & activities section either as a a research project/thesis or as a leadership opportunity presented by the honors college or something like that. Sometimes it will be mentined in a committee letter or a letter from an individual facutly member noting the honors college enrollment and describing the additional academic challenge of that coursework. That does catch the eye, particularly if the student choses a state university or smaller state college over a prestigious LAC or Ivy. (Every year we see people who turned down a prestigious school for a free ride at their state school and it is unjust to penalize them for that choice.)

 

[deleted1108964]

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[zorcandpals]

I'm required to do an honors course per semester but all of the honors courses that are readily available are difficult to do. I'm trying to keep a lighter workload during the semester that I take the MCAT so that I can study but doing honors courses might cause problems. Also, there isn't a separate honors dorm and I'd rather not do the honors versions of my major classes because they're known to be more difficult, even if the classes are smaller.

Yah seems probably not worth it if you know you dont want to take an honors courses. I would still double check the grade distribution or talk to people. The courses might be more difficult but more people/greater proportion probably get an A.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yah seems probably not worth it if you know you dont want to take an honors courses. I would still double check the grade distribution or talk to people. The courses might be more difficult but more people/greater proportion probably get an A.

Sure, but because they are smaller classes full of hard working people. Not really going to help if you don't want to be under a microscope or have to do extra work.

I know at my school, you are correct both about the grade distribution and the extra work. While more As are nice, they are not easier, and it really just doesn't sound like what OP is looking for. It also sounds like the label without all the extra work that goes with it doesn't really have any value to the adcoms.

 

[zorcandpals]

Sure, but because they are smaller classes full of hard working people. Not really going to help if you don't want to be under a microscope or have to do extra work.

I know at my school, you are correct both about the grade distribution and the extra work. While more As are nice, they are not easier, and it really just doesn't sound like what OP is looking for. It also sounds like the label without all the extra work that goes with it doesn't really have any value to the adcoms.

No for sure.

I do personally know for myself though, I def would not have gotten an A in ochem if I took the regular section so maybe it just has a sense of nostalgia to me.

 

[KnightDoc]

No for sure.

I do personally know for myself though, I def would not have gotten an A in ochem if I took the regular section so maybe it just has a sense of nostalgia to me.

Why do you say that? If you were good enough to do well in the honors section, I think you're just allowing yourself to be intimidated by a curve. JMHO, having taken both types of classes. I personally find the curves reassuring, but the honors classes to be MUCH more work, because, among other reasons, it is MUCH more difficult (actually, impossible) to hide in them 🙂.

 

[AzBasRad]

It's a balance, where maintaining high GPA is key. I went to one of the more academically rigorous "prestigious" colleges, did ok, and struggled to get into medical school with around 3.6 GPA. I had friends who attending local CUNYs and SUNYs, did really well academically, set out to differentiate themselves with interesting ECs and eventually got into T25 schools.

If the coursework at honors college is too demanding where you have to cut corners on ECs, volunteering and clinical experience, it will not be worth it in the end.

 

[zorcandpals]

Why do you say that? If you were good enough to do well in the honors section, I think you're just allowing yourself to be intimidated by a curve. JMHO, having taken both types of classes. I personally find the curves reassuring, but the honors classes to be MUCH more work, because, among other reasons, it is MUCH more difficult (actually, impossible) to hide in them 🙂.

When I compared midterm exams with my roommate who was in the non honors section, the material didnt seem substantially harder but the numeric cutoff for an A was many points higher in his class. Also the professor had more leeway to bump up borderline students who asked questions and stuff which probably helped me but wouldn't have made a difference in the non honors section.

In an honors linear algebra course I took ; for sure the material was harder but the curve was more generous so in that case it was probaby a wash; obvs every class is different shrug

 

[Stranger00120]

I did the honors program in undergrad because it got me out of what sounded at the time like mind-numbing gen eds. It was absolutely worth it for me, but I doubt it did anything for med school admissions. What it did do for me, and I'll be grateful for the rest of my life, is make me a much better writer. Every class in our honors program with the exception of the required science class was writing intensive. I had one professor who really focused on helping me improve my writing and restoring my confidence after a pretty terrible experience in high school.

 

[Fano]

Based on my kid's experience, it was worth being in an honors program. IMHO, it might give you a little boost in your med school apps but I wouldn't recommend doing it for that reason if there are things about it you really don't like. Keep in mind that, for whatever reason, med school might not be in your future and the honors program might be much more beneficial for wherever life takes you.

 

[Doc_Ock]

If you're doing it with the hopes of boosting your odds of acceptance, 100% no.

 

[MissingCurlyBracket]

Does being in the honors college at your university help at all on med school applications? At my university being a member of the honors college lets you schedule classes earlier than other students but it comes with so many strings attached that I don't know if it's worth it in the end.

I did the honors program at my ugrad, no regrets whatsoever. It gave me so much to talk about during grad school apps, scheduling classes earlier than everyone else allowed me to take the best classes with the best professors (to not get destroyed by some subpar organic chem professors lol), make time in my schedule to do research rather than scrambling into the leftover classes and not cutting out time blocks for work, a nice group of friends, funding for an amazing research thesis, and some extremely unique opportunities in public health research and talking to experts in their fields. I learned a lot beyond the classroom too, and beyond medicine. Rejecting the honors program just to focus on premed is honestly a short-sighted view in my opinion, but what do I know — I’m a non-trad myself.

edit to add: I went to a high-ranking, non-Ivy private school with a top 10 engineering program (I majored in engineering) and now doing a PhD at a T3 so… YMMV

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I think this question is better suited for people at your university. Talk to current students in the college and ask what they think. Bonus points if you find someone that decided against it or left the college and ask why they did that.

Whether or not an honors college is worth it depends a lot on what membership in that college entails. Is it just a label and shows that you took harder classes? Then idk how much that helps. But does it allow you access to more resources and opportunities that will help you succeed? Then maybe it will help your application indirectly.

At my institution, being in the honors program gave me access to smaller honors classes which makes it easier for someone to participate in class and build relationships with the professor (get rec letters). That's only one of several different advantages an honors program can give though.

But ultimately, I don't think you should make the decision based on how much it will help your app. You should decide based on how membership in the honors college will change your undergrad experience. And if that is worth all the strings that are attached, then go for it. If your institution is like mine, then you can just leave the program without consequences if you don't like it.

Personally, the main benefit for me was living in the honors dorm which introduced me to some of my best friends. Does that help on an app? No. But was it worth it for me? Yup. 🙂

^ This is good advice OP.

As for me, I would write down all the perks of the Honors College you are in on one side of paper, and then all the consequences of being in the college on the other. For me, the amount of guaranteed, paid research gigs that led to publications for many student, the faster WiFi, free color printing, priority registration, and discounted book library were worth more than the hassle of classes I disliked taking. I did this halfway during my second year of undergrad and looking back I was pleased with sticking in the HC. I seems you are more worried about course difficulty. Have you considered taking required gen-ed courses that are known to transfer at a CC during the summer? I’m not sure if this will be of much help, but I hope it does regardless.

 

[KeViN2502]

For all intents and purposes, yes. And to be frank I don't think thoughts seem to be all over the place; there seems to be a succinct consensus that it simply just does help a lot to go to a top undergrad (my experience talking to MSTP program directors at schools similar to mine, maybe not for MD but I assume this is the same).

For the instance with the panel. they explained the academic grading system and evaluation of prestige after a student asked if "going to our university gave an advantage in the process and could make up for a GPA." I remember they gave us the 0-2 explanation (verbally) then rambled about how a very high GPA at colleges filled with top students (aka just a top university) was much more impressive than the latter at a 'normal' university, but that if you bombed at a top university you would be in a bad position. The scale was 0-2 with 0 being unranked or noname, 1 being just a decent university, and 2 being the big names.

I know grade inflation, deflation, etc. exists at these schools, but it's really pointless to debate the legitimacy or logistics of that. At the end of the day, people working at top programs just favor people who attend top programs. I mean hell, go look at any dean/MD/MSTP director's alma mater and tell me that there's no BS going on....it's just overwhelming.

How do you define "decent" university to get the 1 point? Does public state school count?