is lying ever appropriate?

[BoxingTheStars]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

So I'm trying to find a job for the gap year, and not having much luck. Just today got rejected in the second interview, when my potential boss asked me what my career goals were/why I wanted this hospital job when my degree is in a different field. I said I ultimately wanted to go to medical school and become a physician. Then he said the position I was interviewing for required at least 1 if not 2 years of training, and because I wasn't going to be around for that long it was not a good investment of company time/energy (totally understandable).

Of course, I tell a couple friends this story and they're like, "seriously? why on earth didn't you lie to him?" etc.

Is this really what I have to do just to get a job? I'm an honest person, and lying makes me uncomfortable. It's not like 'I'm applying to medical school' is the first thing that comes out of my mouth in an interview, but if directly asked I don't lie and it's clearly hurting me.

What do you guys think? Is lying ever appropriate? Is it just part of "playing the game"? Hopefully there aren't situations like this in med school interviews...

 

[drizzt3117]

I told all of the PIs that I applied to that I could be there for 15-18 months as I would start medical school in the fall of 2008. I interviewed with two labs, was accepted at both, and chose one of them. It probably hurt my chances at getting research associate positions at some labs, but obviously didn't eliminate them.

 

[BigRedPremed]

I told all of the PIs that I applied to that I could be there for 15-18 months as I would start medical school in the fall of 2008. I interviewed with two labs, was accepted at both, and chose one of them. It probably hurt my chances at getting research associate positions at some labs, but obviously didn't eliminate them.

Same. Telling the truth took me out of many positions. But I slept better at night and have no regrets.

 

[ina1220]

I have had the SAME experience! I have been trying to get a job since May with absolutely no luck. I have attempted withholding my plans for the future (not lying), but somehow it always comes up.... and then is followed by a phone call the next day with something like, "you're awesome, but we don't want to invest in someone who will be leaving us."

I have considered lying, but I figure that it will only hurt me in the future. What kind of lie/excuse will i need to take time off for interviews? And if/when I do get accepted, what will that do to my reputation in the eyes of my employer -- in terms of a future reference?

If I lie, I might get the job, but I will also be remembered as selfish and dishonest.
If I don't lie, I have little-no chance for a job.....

oh the dilemma...

 

[Depakote]

I told the truth when applying for gap year positions and still got a great job. Having it out in the open made the application cycle much easier.

(Yes, people will hire you... there are positions that are routinely filled with pre-meds and have high turnover. Look for those.)

 

[drizzt3117]

One other huge advantage of keeping it out in the open is that your PI can be a strong ally in getting into medical school. I not only got an extremely strong LOR but also have a strong advocate that sits on and knows most people on the ADCOM of one of my top choices. Obviously you need to do a good job and make a good impression, though.

 

[ADeadLois]

Lying in a professional setting always comes back to bite you in the ass.

 

[Blade28]

Don't lie. You did the right thing.

If you lied and said you'd be available for two years, then bailed after one year to start med school, you never know whose blacklist you might end up on.

 

[BoxingTheStars]

I told the truth when applying for gap year positions and still got a great job. Having it out in the open made the application cycle much easier.

(Yes, people will hire you... there are positions that are routinely filled with pre-meds and have high turnover. Look for those.)

depakote, if you don't mind me asking, what types of positions should I be looking for?

drizz... unfortunately my undergrad is not in a traditional science, so even though I've been applying for research jobs no one wants to hire me because they assume I don't have a strong science background. And of course, then I basically have to scream "pre-med" to get them to realize that yes, I've taken many science courses not included in my major.

thanks for the support everyone, I feel a little better now.

 

[drizzt3117]

depakote, if you don't mind me asking, what types of positions should I be looking for?

drizz... unfortunately my undergrad is not in a traditional science, so even though I've been applying for research jobs no one wants to hire me because they assume I don't have a strong science background. And of course, then I basically have to scream "pre-med" to get them to realize that yes, I've taken many science courses not included in my major.

thanks for the support everyone, I feel a little better now.

Yeah, my undergrad and graduate degrees are in business so I was sort of in the same situation. It takes a little more effort to convince people that you have a strong knowledge base. If you contact enough labs, though, someone will hire you. If anything, leverage your writing skills because labs always want people who can write (if only to edit nearly infinite amounts of manuscripts)

 

[Depakote]

depakote, if you don't mind me asking, what types of positions should I be looking for?

Well, can't say for certain. I was doing clinical research for a med school. The position was an entry level salaried position that required an undergraduate degree. Lots of applicants would take that job while they applied and then leave after a year or two. They seemed to like to hire pre-meds b/c of the work ethic and the fact that they picked up on the material quickly.

EDIT:

Oh, if they're having trouble taking your science background seriously, you might consider having your advisor send one or more of your LORs to them. I had a great LOR from one of my volunteering experiences that really sealed the deal while I was applying for my job.

 

[AKPsiMD84]

By being open you show character and integrity... two big traits for success. Plus its good for karma 🙂

But, sorry to steal your thunder a bit Boxing... but dritzz... what kind of lab positions need writing skills? Like grant writers, press witer or paper editors? Do labs need people to search for grant/investor money?

 

[drizzt3117]

By being open you show character and integrity... two big traits for success. Plus its good for karma 🙂

But, sorry to steal your thunder a bit Boxing... but dritzz... what kind of lab positions need writing skills? Like grant writers, press witer or paper editors? Do labs need people to search for grant/investor money?

Well your title might be lab technician or research associate, but if you have writing skills a PI will certainly take advantage of them and it could be a point in your favor when they are considering who to hire. Of course, you have to realize that this might mean you'll be spending some of your lab time editing manuscripts but IMO it's not a bad tradeoff.

 

[Dr. Josh]

First of all, no one knows they'll get into med school when they apply so why even mention it? I might say "perhaps someday I'll go to med school", but I'd never say i'll be going in a year or two. I'm just going to say "I want to do something in the medical field; I like helping patients."

 

[Bartelby]

First of all, no one knows they'll get into med school when they apply so why even mention it? I might say "perhaps someday I'll go to med school", but I'd never say i'll be going in a year or two. I'm just going to say "I want to do something in the medical field; I like helping patients."

I think saying "perhaps someday I'll go to medical school" is very deceptive. It suggests that you are considering it as a future option but are not currently pursuing that option. "I said I ultimately wanted to go to medical school and become a physician" is how the OP seems to have phrased it, which is not the same as saying he/she will certainly be in medical school next year. Besides, if it is actually important (which it seems to be) the interviewer will follow up by asking you when and if you plan to apply, taking you right back to square one.

To address your original question OP, I think lying is rarely OK. If an interviewer were to ask you, for instance, if you had ever tried weed (and you had) I think it would make sense to lie because it has no bearing on how you will perform in medical school and it is really none of their business. In this case, however, it clearly IS their business, and your lie will ultimately hurt the lab because of the wasted investment in training. I think you made the right call by telling the truth there, and I wish you luck with your job search.

 

[Revenant]

Generally no, however, there are exceptions.

Girlfriend:

"Is my best friend prettier than me?"

"Does this dress make me look fat?"

etc. etc.


You bet your ass I'd lie.

 

[Its An Platypus]

Generally no, however, there are exceptions.

Girlfriend:

"Is my best friend prettier than me?"

"Does this dress make me look fat?"

etc. etc.


You bet your ass I'd lie.

sounds like you got a great girl there.

 

[Revenant]

sounds like you got a great girl there.

Just examples. Not IRL.

 

[LikeClockWork]

I got my gap year job by contacting all the people from my pre-med society that I knew had gap year jobs as well. Since they were getting into med school and were going to vacate a position, I figured I'd present myself as a suitable replacement. That's exactly what happened with one of my friends who worked in a research lab, so I knew the PI was cool with the whole I'm-ultimately-trying-to-go-to-med-school thing. Maybe that's an avenue you and those in similar positions could try to explore?

 

[Dr. Josh]

I think saying "perhaps someday I'll go to medical school" is very deceptive. It suggests that you are considering it as a future option but are not currently pursuing that option. "I said I ultimately wanted to go to medical school and become a physician" is how the OP seems to have phrased it, which is not the same as saying he/she will certainly be in medical school next year. Besides, if it is actually important (which it seems to be) the interviewer will follow up by asking you when and if you plan to apply, taking you right back to square one.

But perhaps I'll get rejected and then not reapply. Perhaps I'll love my job and realize I don't want to pursue med school. Perhaps I'll fall in love and marry someone who doesn't want the time and expense and stress of med school for me. I do not know I'll go to med school-ever. I really am not being deceptive.

 

[Its An Platypus]

But perhaps I'll get rejected and then not reapply. Perhaps I'll love my job and realize I don't want to pursue med school. Perhaps I'll fall in love and marry someone who doesn't want the time and expense and stress of med school for me. I do not know I'll go to med school-ever. I really am not being deceptive.

Sounds like a stretch (and a lot like a lie)

 

[Dr. Josh]

Sounds like a stretch (and a lot like a lie)

But really (and I'm not trying to be deceptive) I have no idea what path my life may take. Why say I'm planning on going to med school if I may not? Should I say "well I'm going to apply to med school, but who knows, I probably won't get in on my first try, and then who knows if I'll apply again?"

 

[pakbabydoll]

Don't lie, but its none of their business, so just say because you need a job. You DO need a job so thats not a lie.

 

[Dr. Josh]

I told the truth when applying for gap year positions and still got a great job. Having it out in the open made the application cycle much easier.

(Yes, people will hire you... there are positions that are routinely filled with pre-meds and have high turnover. Look for those.)

And what kind of jobs would these be if I have no experience and no skills?

 

[Its An Platypus]

And what kind of jobs would these be if I have no experience and no skills?

Unwarrented entitlement much? Just because you finish college doesnt mean you get a good job. With no experience and no skills, you get the kind of job that requires no experience and no skills. That is how the world works, sorry.

 

[Dr. Josh]

Unwarrented entitlement much? Just because you finish college doesnt mean you get a good job. With no experience and no skills, you get the kind of job that requires no experience and no skills. That is how the world works, sorry.

Uh yea, so I was just asking what kind of jobs that would be. I'm not asking for unwarrented entitlement, so stop with the accusations...ok?

 

[Bartelby]

But perhaps I'll get rejected and then not reapply. Perhaps I'll love my job and realize I don't want to pursue med school. Perhaps I'll fall in love and marry someone who doesn't want the time and expense and stress of med school for me. I do not know I'll go to med school-ever. I really am not being deceptive.

If, in your case, you are really that unsure about it then I guess it is not a big deal. I don't think I know anyone who is applying who is so ambivalent about being a doctor, though. Most people at this stage are a lot more committed than that. If you are saying perhaps in the same way that I might say "perhaps I will get in a car wreck and die driving out to my interviews and never go to medical school, who knows?" then I would still say it is deceptive.

That also still leaves the follow up question. When the interviewer says "oh, have you decided when you will apply" will you say perhaps two months ago?

 

[drizzt3117]

And what kind of jobs would these be if I have no experience and no skills?

You're a pre-med, so you've taken pre-med classes, which presumably include lab courses, right? You've also read and written academic-style journal articles, I presume. How do you not have the skills to work in a lab at an undergraduate level?

 

[BoxingTheStars]

Not to ask a stupid question, but where is a good place to look for these types of lab positions that everyone's been discussing? at my ugrad institution? because those are the jobs I've been applying to online, and no one ever calls me (and no place to follow up). Should I be emailing individuals instead, asking if they would like help in their lab? (PS, I don't have an English background either...so I don't think that'll help)

I'd probably prefer working in a clinical setting/with or around patients and families if I could. What kinds of jobs might I be qualified for? It seems I can't even be a PCA without training or a nursing student background. grr.

right now, all I know that my job in retail SUCKS and I NEED to get out before holiday season starts... but I also need to pay the rent. I'm open to whatever ideas y'all have.

 

[drizzt3117]

Some suggestions other people had were good. Does your school have a pre-med society/club? That might be a good place to get contacts. Also, while emailing is a good thing, physically going to labs is a good way as well. Worst case, the PI won't have time to talk to you but once in awhile they'll either talk to you or schedule an appt for you to talk to them. Certainly it's better than writing an email that's just going to be deleted. If you're going to email, be fairly persistent. I know my PI was just really busy and more or less ignored anyone who wasn't persistent because she felt they weren't really that interested.

 

[ina1220]

yessss!!! job interview next week in patient services! wish me luck!

 

[BoxingTheStars]

yessss!!! job interview next week in patient services! wish me luck!

congrats! I just got another job interview for next week too... pharm tech! good luck to you, hopefully both of us will finally find something

if nothing else, at least we'll have more interview practice for med school interviews 🙄

 

[Depakote]

yessss!!! job interview next week in patient services! wish me luck!