Is MCAT culturally biased?

[murfettie]

against URMs?

Please, no inflammatory stuff, please.

I was just reading about how the SAT is accused of being culturally biased.
I really don't understand the concept of cultural bias since I moved to this country as a teenager. It's a little new.

Is this bias an intrinsic factor against people's educational background/cultural background? But, aren't these tests designed to filter based on educational background? Isn't the education system designed to even the playing fields in terms of making everyone slightly knowledgeable about.. Shakespeare?

The reason I'm in particularly asking this is that I have a few URM friends I'm trying to help with MCAT, especially verbal since I did pretty well. I couldn't even read a simple book for 2th graders when I was 14. They are all born Americans.. How is this possible? Is this the failure of the education system?

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[deleted74029]

No, not in any sense that someone who uses the term would likely try to argue. Now, are you at any disadvantage if you went to ****ty schools growing up? Of course.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Uhhh, physics, bio, and chem aren't a cultural thing. Sure there might be passages in the verbal section that may focus on a cultural event, from a certain country, such as baseball or cricket, but that won't stop you from answering the questions correctly because the questions won't be testing your knowledge of those subjects. It's evaluating your reading comprehension.

 

[KickedOut]

Uhhh, physics, bio, and chem aren't a cultural thing. Sure there might be passages in the verbal section that may focus on a culture from a certain country such as baseball or cricket, but that won't stop you from answering the questions correctly because the questions won't be testing your knowledge of those subjects. It's evaluating your reading comprehension.

👍

The famous example for culture bias was an SAT question:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::
A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable



The correct response is (C) and required knowledge of a sport that is popular with the wealthy white. My MCAT verbal passages had nothing to do with anything I was familiar with (even the passages that were more science based).

 

[WhizoMD]

i thought it was a fair test. It's hard to have bias with Bio/Phys, so that leaves the verbal section which, as others indicated, is all about reading comprehension. The only thing that really gives you an advantage with verbal is prior reading habits, and that's probably influenced more by k-12 education than by actual culture.

 

[Geekchick921]

👍

The famous example for culture bias was an SAT question:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::
A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable



The correct response is (C) and required knowledge of a sport that is popular with the wealthy white. My MCAT verbal passages had nothing to do with anything I was familiar with (even the passages that were more science based).

I'm not sure if you're getting ILD's point.

Uhhh, physics, bio, and chem aren't a cultural thing. Sure there might be passages in the verbal section that may focus on a culture from a certain country such as baseball or cricket, but that won't stop you from answering the questions correctly because the questions won't be testing your knowledge of those subjects. It's evaluating your reading comprehension.

That question does not require knowledge of a sport popular with the wealthy white. It requires the ability to use process of elimination to realized all the other answers are clearly incorrect.

 

[KickedOut]

I'm not sure if you're getting ILD's point.

I beg to differ. I believe that I understood ILD's point and I tried to used the SAT example to help illustrate for the OP.

The OP stated they had read the SAT was culturally bias. The example I provided has been used in academics of this cultural bias. I believe ~60% of white and ~25% of African American test takers answered correctly (approximate, I'd have to look for a source).

If your point is that the example I provided displays no cultural bias (or that there is no such thing), then so be it...I'm only reiterating what has been stated/argued by individuals more knowledgeable than myself on the subject. My point was that while the SAT could be subject to a cultural bias, I believe the MCAT could not. The science sections, obviously, could not and I do not believe the verbal section could either (as previously stated by ILD, hence the 👍)

 

[patel2]

 

[chiz2kul]

^^ damm thats gotta hurt

 

[Geekchick921]

I beg to differ. I believe that I understood ILD's point and I tried to used the SAT example to help illustrate for the OP.

The OP stated they had read the SAT was culturally bias. The example I provided has been used in academics of this cultural bias. I believe ~60% of white and ~25% of African American test takers answered correctly (approximate, I'd have to look for a source).

Okay, I see what you were going for. I am still having my coffee. 🙂

If your point is that the example I provided displays no cultural bias (or that there is no such thing), then so be it...I'm only reiterating what has been stated/argued by individuals more knowledgeable than myself on the subject. My point was that while the SAT could be subject to a cultural bias, I believe the MCAT could not. The science sections, obviously, could not and I do not believe the verbal section could either (as previously stated by ILD, hence the 👍)

I wasn't trying to say that the SAT definitely has no cultural bias, just that, to me, that question is much more about process of elimination than actually knowing the terminology, as all the other answers can be ruled out pretty easily (I say as someone that does very well on standardized tests, including the SAT, so take that FWIW). I can see how that question could be an example of cultural bias, but I'm skeptical that such a large disparity is due to it, though I couldn't begin to tell you what another reason may be. I wouldn't think that many white kids are so much more familiar with rowing (when I hear regatta, I personally think it sounds like a casino 🙂), but that's JMO.

 

[Geekchick921]

^^ damm thats gotta hurt

I'm still trying to figure out exactly how he lands. It's just a tangled mass of limbs for a moment there.

 

[startswithb]

Maybe GoldenDestiny will chime in. She wrote a whole diatribe about how the MCAT was culturally biased against URMs in another thread....

...but I sat for the MCAT multiple times and never came across a passage that I was familiar with; it's about reading comprehension like Drugs said. Meh, I'd like to read the study which led these sociologists to make that conclusion. If anything, ESL students struggle the most with verbal, but how many of them completely blow away the science sections to even out their score!

 

[Mbeas]

i love how every URM thread is prefaced with "Please, no inflammatory stuff, please.", or "I'm not trolling", or "I don't want to start an argument, but...".

 

[Reticent]

There is a certain slant to the vernacular of any of the major standardized exams that tends to more familiar to (and thus favor) those of a middle class or higher background.

That said, by the time anyone is ready to sit for the MCAT the effect of that bias should be severely mitigated (due to exposure to similar material in undergrad if nothing else). I'd expect the bias is more in play at the SAT/ACT level.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

i love how every URM thread is prefaced with "Please, no inflammatory stuff, please.", or "I'm not trolling", or "I don't want to start an argument, but...".

Ding ding ding!

 

[JKinSC]

.

 

[eli20]

The thing about cultural bias is you usually aren't aware that you are culturally advantaged. The SAT has done some work to help alleviate some of these problems, especially by eliminating the analogies section which was rampant with class-loaded terms like "regatta." The issue isn't whether or not you could reason out the question, its that an individual who has grown up privileged will likely have an advantage both in accuracy and speed when taking the test, which, when compounded over several hundred questions and hours, can lead to a significant difference in scoring outcomes.

I also think that the MCAT probably has fewer problems with this, 1) because 2/3 of the sections are based on science, which is less inherently cultural, but still not foolproof depending on how questions are asked. 2) Because the verbal section is all passage-based it mitigates some of the problems that arise from discreet questions like the SAT analogies.

 

[KTownGT]

If one could show that the MCAT is significantly biased against URMs; could the other side show that URMs are more easily accepted with lower scores?

 

[ILikeDrugs]

That question does not require knowledge of a sport popular with the wealthy white. It requires the ability to use process of elimination to realized all the other answers are clearly incorrect.

It might not seem like it isn't culturally biased, but it's probably because you're familiar to the terminology. If I was 16-17 again I would have thought that oarsman was some sort of a sailor/boat member and I would have thought that regatta was a type of boat and not a sporting event. I was actually on fence between C and D and had to look up the definition of a regatta. Having ref and tournament, which is related to a sporting even, in there would throw off someone who isn't familiar with rich, predominantly white sports. That would then lead someone to believe that runner is to ref as marathon is to tournament. Only after becoming familiar with the definition of regatta and oarsman would one be able to realize that that both runner and oarsman are both active athletes in the specific sporting events of a marathon racing and regatta. The ref then becomes a passive observer and tournament becomes some general event of a sport.

 

[Geekchick921]

I think it does. It might seem like it doesn't to you, but it's probably because you're familiar to the terminology. If I was 16-17 again I would have thought that oarsman was some sort of a sailor/boat member and I would have thought that regatta was a type of boat and not a sporting event.

Um, no. At no point did I say I know what a regatta is, especially off the top of my head (again, I would have guess it was the name of a casino) and I certainly didn't know what it was at 16, when I took the SAT.

I was actually on fence between C and D and had to look up the definition of a regatta. Having ref and tournament, which is related to a sporting even, in there would throw off someone who isn't familiar with rich, predominantly white sports. That would then lead someone to believe that runner is to ref as marathon is to tournament. Only after becoming familiar with the definition with regatta and oarsman would one be able to realize that that both runner and oarsman are both active athletes in the specific sporting events of a marathon racing and regatta. The ref then becomes a passive observer and tournament becomes some general event of a sport.

That is not how I would approach this question at all. A runner competes in a marathon. An envoy does not compete in an embassy, nor does a martyr compete in a massacre, a referee compete in a tournament, or a horse compete in a stable. I can see how referee: tournament can be misleading but the fact that a runner is an active participant in a marathon, and a referee is not a participant in a tournament, should be enough to rule it out as a logical choice.

Would someone who is familiar with rowing find this question easier? Sure. But in no way is knowledge of the term regatta required to answer this question correctly.

 

[deleted74029]

Yeah the question was obviously meant to see whether you can properly apply the process of elimination, not whether you knew the definition of obscure words.

 

[Geekchick921]

Yeah the question was obviously meant to see whether you can properly apply the process of elimination, not whether you knew the definition of obscure words.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but IMO tests like the SAT and MCAT are about your reasoning and deductive skills as well as knowledge of the subject matter. Again, my point is that you can get this question right without knowing what on earth a regatta is.

So, as I've never heard of the debate surrounding this question before, and I googled it, out of curiosity. I stand corrected. I would have gotten it wrong, seeing as it hasn't been present in the SAT since about 10 years before I was born.

 

[Slack3r]

There is a certain slant to the vernacular of any of the major standardized exams that tends to more familiar to (and thus favor) those of a middle class or higher background.

How do you figure?

 

[45408]

i love how every URM thread is prefaced with "Please, no inflammatory stuff, please.", or "I'm not trolling", or "I don't want to start an argument, but...".

Followed by "I have lots of friends who are a part of the group I'm about to offend..."

 

[gschl1234]

👍

The famous example for culture bias was an SAT question:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::
A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable



The correct response is (C) and required knowledge of a sport that is popular with the wealthy white. My MCAT verbal passages had nothing to do with anything I was familiar with (even the passages that were more science based).

Yes, but even if you don't know the meaning of regatta, you can eliminate the other choices. A runner trains for a marathon. An envoy doesn't train for an embassy; martyr doesn't train for a massacre; referee doesn't train from a tournament and horse doesn't train for a stable.

 

[Geekchick921]

Followed by "I have lots of friends who are a part of the group I'm about to offend..."

Some of my best friends are *insert minority here*!

 

[45408]

There is a certain slant to the vernacular of any of the major standardized exams that tends to more familiar to (and thus favor) those of a middle class or higher background.

Can't say I noticed much vernacular on the MCAT. It's pretty much just proper English.

 

[eagles22]

Yes, but even if you don't know the meaning of regatta, you can eliminate the other choices. A runner trains for a marathon. An envoy doesn't train for an embassy; martyr doesn't train for a massacre; referee doesn't train from a tournament and horse doesn't train for a stable.

Yes, but in this process you waste time. The people familiar with what those words mean will spot the correct answer quickly and move on. Trying to figure out what is happening when you have no idea what the question is asking takes time and causes stress. Just because you can get the question right without knowledge of the words does not mean it is not culturally biased.

 

[startswithb]

Yes, but in this process you waste time. The people familiar with what those words mean will spot the correct answer quickly and move on. Trying to figure out what is happening when you have no idea what the question is asking takes time and causes stress. Just because you can get the question right without knowledge of the words does not mean it is not culturally biased.

I disagree. Any standardized exam ace will tell you that process of elimination is key.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I disagree. Any standardized exam ace will tell you that process of elimination is key.

Agree. The trick to these (and they were on the SAT back when I took it) was to find the *most* correct answer. Even knowing all of the words involved, it still required some critical reasoning to eliminate your way to an answer choice. And even in the above example, the problem (if there is one) isn't one based on race, it's based on class and income level. I think that pretty much always gets lost in these silly URM arguments.

 

[Geekchick921]

Agree. The trick to these (and they were on the SAT back when I took it) was to find the *most* correct answer. Even knowing all of the words involved, it still required some critical reasoning to eliminate your way to an answer choice. And even in the above example, the problem (if there is one) isn't one based on race, it's based on class and income level. I think that pretty much always gets lost in these silly URM arguments.

Yup, and location. What if you don't live anywhere with an ocean/lake/river adequate for crew, and there are never any regattas around?

 

[Frazier]

Momentum: It will stick your head up your own ass... Backwards.

 

[Negrodamus]

Agree. The trick to these (and they were on the SAT back when I took it) was to find the *most* correct answer. Even knowing all of the words involved, it still required some critical reasoning to eliminate your way to an answer choice. And even in the above example, the problem (if there is one) isn't one based on race, it's based on class and income level. I think that pretty much always gets lost in these silly URM arguments.

So income disparity isn't tied to race and ethnic ties?

 

[Pons Asinorum]

So income disparity isn't tied to race and ethnic ties?

Let's not have this argument in yet another thread. There is plenty of unconvincing URM argument in 20 other threads. Racial disparaties in performance in multiple areas tend to break down quite nicely when controlled for income either early or late in life. This is an argument for another day. Also, I thought you got banned? Glad you didn't.

 

[Docindhouse]

👍

The famous example for culture bias was an SAT question:

RUNNER: MARATHON ::
A) envoy: embassy
B) martyr: massacre
C) oarsman: regatta
D) referee: tournament
E) horse: stable



The correct response is (C) and required knowledge of a sport that is popular with the wealthy white. My MCAT verbal passages had nothing to do with anything I was familiar with (even the passages that were more science based).

The problem though is that not many people will want to choose words they are unfamiliar with as their answer. So if they dont know what a regatta is ( I didnt know too, thought it had to do with reggae😀) they may end up choosing D.

I remember one of the prep books that said, dont choose a "big" word as an answer if you dont know what it means. Process of elimination may help but it sucks when you dont have a clue about one of the things your eliminating or choosing

 

[Narmerguy]

Agree. The trick to these (and they were on the SAT back when I took it) was to find the *most* correct answer. Even knowing all of the words involved, it still required some critical reasoning to eliminate your way to an answer choice. And even in the above example, the problem (if there is one) isn't one based on race, it's based on class and income level. I think that pretty much always gets lost in these silly URM arguments.

Cultural bias isn't always restricted to ethnicity. The source of the unfair advantage being economic or racial doesn't change the fact that this is a culturally biased example.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Cultural bias isn't always restricted to ethnicity. The source of the unfair advantage being economic or racial doesn't change the fact that this is a culturally biased example.

But the "cultural" aspect of bias poses its own problems. I'm comfortable calling certain cultures winners and certain cultures losers. Value decisions can be attached to cultures. Races not at all. Economic not so much either.

 

[Mark Knopfler]

The thing about cultural bias is you usually aren't aware that you are culturally advantaged. The SAT has done some work to help alleviate some of these problems, especially by eliminating the analogies section which was rampant with class-loaded terms like "regatta." The issue isn't whether or not you could reason out the question, its that an individual who has grown up privileged will likely have an advantage both in accuracy and speed when taking the test, which, when compounded over several hundred questions and hours, can lead to a significant difference in scoring outcomes.

Cultural bias isn't always restricted to ethnicity. The source of the unfair advantage being economic or racial doesn't change the fact that this is a culturally biased example.

👍👍👍

 

[Mark Knopfler]

By the way, Negrodamus, I love your avatar.

😉

 

[deleted74029]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but IMO tests like the SAT and MCAT are about your reasoning and deductive skills as well as knowledge of the subject matter. Again, my point is that you can get this question right without knowing what on earth a regatta is.

So, as I've never heard of the debate surrounding this question before, and I googled it, out of curiosity. I stand corrected. I would have gotten it wrong, seeing as it hasn't been present in the SAT since about 10 years before I was born.

Not being sarcastic. It's not a coincidence that the other options used fairly well known words while the correct answer used terms that are pretty esoteric.

 

[WingedOx]

The problem though is that not many people will want to choose words they are unfamiliar with as their answer. So if they dont know what a regatta is ( I didnt know too, thought it had to do with reggae😀) they may end up choosing D.

I remember one of the prep books that said, dont choose a "big" word as an answer if you dont know what it means. Process of elimination may help but it sucks when you dont have a clue about one of the things your eliminating or choosing

And you had an overpriced prep book... This tool of your socioeconomic advantage caused you to choose the wrong answer. Suck it whitey!

 

[NickNaylor]

😱

 

[Docindhouse]

WingedOx, read the post properly before posting stupid comments. Besides, I am URM

 

[Pons Asinorum]

WingedOx, read the post properly before posting stupid comments. Besides, I am URM

Looks like it's that time...

 

[Docindhouse]

Looks like it's that time...

LOL. Gotta love SDN

 

[slatermd]

 

[Pons Asinorum]

...

I wish I could save a few JPEGs as quick reply buttons. Instead of "Reply with Quote," I could get a "Reply with Wut?" or "Reply with ILWTTIG." Would save me at least 3 minutes a day.

 

[slatermd]

I wish I could save a few JPEGs as quick reply buttons. Instead of "Reply with Quote," I could get a "Reply with Wut?" or "Reply with ILWTTIG." Would save me at least 3 minutes a day.

Bookmarks...

Although some sort of speed dial JPEG interface would be great. You should have to pass a test to be able to use it though.

 

[Mbeas]

Looks like it's that time...

indeed.

oh lawd.....here we go. i'll give this one 4 pages before it dies.

edit: some of this heat can be diverted to the other race thread, since some genius bumped it.

 

[Bravetown]

I have serious doubts about whether the VR section actual tests for reading comprehension