IS MD possible for me?

[swollcat]

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Hello,

I am an underdog applicant who has a couple questions concerning special masters programs and was wondering how much do they actually serve to enhance your academic record? (I also understand that no two SMPs are the same, but rather was wondering to what extent they can resuscitate a GPA)

I currently have a rough 2.5 GPA that could potentially be a 2.8 GPA (AMCAS) or 3.4 GPA (AACOMAS) after my retakes are complete this year. I understand that GPA wise I would be in the thick of things for DO, but If I wanted to go MD I would surely need an SMP.

I know that having a 2.8 GPA is also relatively poor as most SMP's require a 3.0, but If I were to somehow earn admissions (taking into account my upward trending GPA and a 3.8+ in my last 60 units), how possible is MD with a poor 2.8 undergrad GPA, outstanding SMP GPA and a solid MCAT?

as a complete hypothetically, how does a 2.8 or 2.9 undergrad GPA with a 3.8-4.0 SMP GPA compare to someone with a 3.4 or 3.5 undergrad GPA assuming MCAT scores are the same?

 

[anbuitachi]

consider why you have that low of a GPA in the first place. Do you think you will be able to do well in medical school where average gpa is 3.7? If you don't i recommend going to DO, and try to be a top student there. DOs can still match into good programs.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Hello,

I am an underdog applicant who has a couple questions concerning SMPs and was wondering how much do they actually serve to enhance your academic record? (I also understand that no two SMPs are the same, but rather was wondering to what extent they can resuscitate a GPA)

I currently have a rough 2.5 GPA that could potentially be a 2.8 GPA (AMCAS) or 3.4 GPA (AACOMAS) after my retakes are complete this year. I understand that GPA wise I would be in the thick of things for DO, but If I wanted to go MD I would surely need an SMP.

I know that having a 2.8 GPA is also relatively poor as most SMP's require a 3.0, but If I were to somehow earn admissions (taking into account my upward trending GPA and a 3.8+ in my last 60 units), how possible is MD with a poor 2.8 undergrad GPA, outstanding SMP GPA and a solid MCAT?

as a complete hypothetically, how does a 2.8 or 2.9 undergrad GPA with a 3.8-4.0 SMP GPA compare to someone with a 3.4 or 3.5 undergrad GPA assuming MCAT scores are the same?

I believe that, while SMPs do help somewhat to compensate for a low GPA, they aren't close to .5 GPA points overall. I think that it is more for borderline candidates and, unfortunately, a 2.8 is not borderline. In my opinion, it would take another year of GPA repair via a post-bacc, then maybe an SMP. SMPs themselves are getting harder to get in to and may not take that low a GPA.
Also, I don't believe that SMP GPA gets factored into undergrad GPA while post-baccs do, so if you could get your undergrad GPA over 3, you would escape some auto-cutoffs.

Or just go the DO route with a 3.4, a killer upward trend, and a solid MCAT and save yourself 3 years of toil and debt (the programs are EXPENSIVE).

 

[swollcat]

great response thank

I believe that, while SMPs do help somewhat to compensate for a low GPA, they aren't close to .5 GPA points overall. I think that it is more for borderline candidates and, unfortunately, a 2.8 is not borderline. In my opinion, it would take another year of GPA repair via a post-bacc, then maybe an SMP. SMPs themselves are getting harder to get in to and may not take that low a GPA.
Also, I don't believe that SMP GPA gets factored into undergrad GPA while post-baccs do, so if you could get your undergrad GPA over 3, you would escape some auto-cutoffs.

Or just go the DO route with a 3.4, a killer upward trend, and a solid MCAT and save yourself 3 years of toil and debt (the programs are EXPENSIVE).

great response thank you. When I hear terms like academic record enhancers I envision programs that are built to revive even the most putrid GPAs, especially because I wouldnt think for the life of me that a 3.2 or 3.3 GPA would need "enhancing" or "redemption," but what you said absolutely makes sense since anything below a 3.0 is poor.

 

[theseeker4]

great response thank


great response thank you. When I hear terms like academic record enhancers I envision programs that are built to revive even the most putrid GPAs, especially because I wouldnt think for the life of me that a 3.2 or 3.3 GPA would need "enhancing" or "redemption," but what you said absolutely makes sense since anything below a 3.0 is poor.

Actually, you would be extremely lucky to get in to and MD program with a 3.2 or 3.3 without some type of remediation. That is far below average accepted GPAs. It is below average for DO programs as well, but they tend to be more forgiving.

 

[swollcat]

my apologies, thats not what I meant to say. What i meant to say was that a 3.3 doesnt sound like it needs "reviving" or "redemption" the way these programs seem to word the process, but then again im remiss to think that its easy to raise a 3.3 gpa to 3.5 gpa...

 

[Ismet]

Moving to WAMC

 

[knv2u]

I think it would be a more efficient and better use of your time to apply to DO schools only. It will take a significant amount of post bacc work to bring your GPA up to even a 3.0-3.2 from a 2.5, which is still horrendous for MD school, and you would need to do a SMP on top of it (most wouldn't consider you with your current GPA). In total, you would be looking at a minimum of 2 years of post bacc work and a SMP to even have a chance at a MD school. If you have a 3.4 GPA for DO schools, then that sounds much more reasonable to work with. Just do reasonably well on the MCAT and make sure that all of your extracurricular activities, letters of recommendation, etc., are there.

 

[listener23]

consider why you have that low of a GPA in the first place. Do you think you will be able to do well in medical school where average gpa is 3.7? If you don't i recommend going to DO, and try to be a top student there. DOs can still match into good programs.

This response is all wrong.

1. MD school is NOT harder than DO there basically the same curriculum

2. It is a common well known fact a student with a 3.0 and a 24 mcat will be academically fine in medical school.

What you should have ask him was: " do you think you can get a completive enough GPA to apply to MD?"

 

[anbuitachi]

This response is all wrong.

1. MD school is NOT harder than DO there basically the same curriculum

2. It is a common well known fact a student with a 3.0 and a 24 mcat will be academically fine in medical school.

What you should have ask him was: " do you think you can get a completive enough GPA to apply to MD?"

1) That's not neccesarily true. In med school for competitive fields, you want AOA, even if you dont get AOA, ppl care about class rank. It's much harder to get a higher rank or make AOA when everyone around you normally do very well. Also each school is different, but the school I'm at is semi curved. They design the tests so our averages end up ~80, so the students can be spread out.

2) Idk what to say to this. what you just said is just so .... i dont want to say dumb.. but really??? You need to ditch everyone you know whos been telling you that. THey are probably just trying to gun you down. Med school is NOT easy. And not everyone is the same. If you didn't study at ALL and got a 24, and then studies in med school, fine. but if you try really hard, and get a 3.0 wth 24 mcat.. then med school will be tough for you. Every year in my class ~5 ppl fail the year and gets left back, and another maybe 10 ppl on top of that repeats the class. Most of these ppl were on the low end of GPA/MCAT. only one person i know who failed scored a 36 w/ high gpa. It also makes sense that gpa/mcat has some correlation to how well you do. [obviously its not everything]

 

[BestDoctorEver]

consider why you have that low of a GPA in the first place. Do you think you will be able to do well in medical school where average gpa is 3.7? If you don't i recommend going to DO, and try to be a top student there. DOs can still match into good programs.

This response is all wrong.

1. MD school is NOT harder than DO there basically the same curriculum

2. It is a common well known fact a student with a 3.0 and a 24 mcat will be academically fine in medical school.

What you should have ask him was: " do you think you can get a completive enough GPA to apply to MD?"

I wanted to reply to the post, but you beat me to it... It has been shown that there is not a statistical difference is step1 passing rate for med students with 24 and 30+.

 

[anbuitachi]

I wanted to reply to the post, but you beat me to it... It has been shown that there is not a statistical difference is step1 passing rate for med students with 24 and 30+.

It may be because passing Step 1 isn't difficult . . . . if you set the bar so low, everything will be insignificant. I have yet to meet a med student whos satisfied with just a pass on step 1. I'm at an average school, and our passing rate last yr was 100%. Perhaps thats y step 1 score was increased last yr to 192 from 188.

And do you have the study? I'd like to analyze it
Edit: Googled it...

"A small to moderate correlation was also found between MCAT and USMLE scores, with r values ranging from 0.38 to 0.60"

"MCATscores and cumulative science UGPAs were related to performance on the NBME I, as were country of origin and sex. The students in the top and bottom 25% differed significantly in their scores on the NBME I"

 

[listener23]

1) That's not neccesarily true. In med school for competitive fields, you want AOA, even if you dont get AOA, ppl care about class rank. It's much harder to get a higher rank or make AOA when everyone around you normally do very well. Also each school is different, but the school I'm at is semi curved. They design the tests so our averages end up ~80, so the students can be spread out.

2) Idk what to say to this. what you just said is just so .... i dont want to say dumb.. but really??? You need to ditch everyone you know whos been telling you that. THey are probably just trying to gun you down. Med school is NOT easy. And not everyone is the same. If you didn't study at ALL and got a 24, and then studies in med school, fine. but if you try really hard, and get a 3.0 wth 24 mcat.. then med school will be tough for you. Every year in my class ~5 ppl fail the year and gets left back, and another maybe 10 ppl on top of that repeats the class. Most of these ppl were on the low end of GPA/MCAT. only one person i know who failed scored a 36 w/ high gpa. It also makes sense that gpa/mcat has some correlation to how well you do. [obviously its not everything]

Medical students come from different universities and take different professors so the level of diffuclty vary from course to course. Not to mention some students work jobs during there undergrad. Just because a kid comes in with a 3.3 GPA does not mean he's going to get out done by all the other kids with 3.9 GPA's. What if the 3.3 kid struggled in Orgo and Physics (two courses that only serve to weed-out premeds but are not that relevant to medical school curriculum) But Excelled in his Bio courses?

 

[anbuitachi]

Medical students come from different universities and take different professors so the level of diffuclty vary from course to course. Not to mention some students work jobs during there undergrad. Just because a kid comes in with a 3.3 GPA does not mean he's going to get out done by all the other kids with 3.9 GPA's. What if the 3.3 kid struggled in Orgo and Physics (two courses that only serve to weed-out premeds but are not that relevant to medical school curriculum) But Excelled in his Bio courses?

I don tthink you are getting my point. I'm not saying the OP will definitely fail cause b/c of his stats. I'm saying statistically he has a higher chance of doing worse than the other students. You can give me a million cases of how someone might have gotten the low stats and then do really well in med school. Maybe his dog ate his homework in college everyday. I dont know. MCAT is also used as a standardization. But i'm talking about higher risk in general. And i found physics and Orgo knowledge to be useful for medical school. Certain fields of medicine require you to take physics courses.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

And i found physics and Orgo knowledge to be useful for medical school. Certain fields of medicine require you to take physics courses.

I am not in med school student yet, but I have many friends in med school who told me these two subjects are somewhat useless in med school. Also, you have to understand not everyone wants to be a derm or ortho doc... Some just want to be primary care docs...

 

[anbuitachi]

I am not in med school student yet, but I have many friends in med school who told me these two subjects are somewhat useless in med school. Also, you have to understand not everyone wants to be a derm or ortho doc... Some just want to be primary care docs...

Yea of course. Pre med courses tries to get into you the basic foundations. You only take basic orgo/physics, it's not even super complicated. And very few ppl end up doing what they thought they were gonna do before entering medical school. So they may think they are going into primary care.. but end up interested in rad onc. Many people don't want to do primary care anymore after seeing what it is like out there.

And in the end, what you learn in pre med isn't even that important. THe whole process is more about selecting the best of the group. THe group of kids who can tough it out, the group who are smart or disciplined, or both. Because that' what you are going to need in medical school. You'll be having a class thats normally a semester long in college condensed into 1.5 weeks in medical school, and you need to be able to handle situations liek that. It is still easy to leave the process when you are in college, but once you are in medical school, it becomes tougher, once all the loans start piling up

 

[Goro]

SMPs are a dime-a-dozen. Just do your homework and you'll find one. Acing an SMP, and doing well on MCAT (>34) CAN get you into the MD schools that believe in reinvention (Tulane, Case, Albany, BU, Drexel, for example)

I know that having a 2.8 GPA is also relatively poor as most SMP's require a 3.0, but If I were to somehow earn admissions (taking into account my upward trending GPA and a 3.8+ in my last 60 units), how possible is MD with a poor 2.8 undergrad GPA, outstanding SMP GPA and a solid MCAT?

as a complete hypothetically, how does a 2.8 or 2.9 undergrad GPA with a 3.8-4.0 SMP GPA compare to someone with a 3.4 or 3.5 undergrad GPA assuming MCAT scores are the same?[/quote]

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Actually, you would be extremely lucky to get in to and MD program with a 3.2 or 3.3 without some type of remediation. That is far below average accepted GPAs. It is below average for DO programs as well, but they tend to be more forgiving.

Depends. Last three years we've seen DO admissions splitting between older and newer programs where you have to be solid to make it to the established programs. To be in the safer region, OP needs that 3.4.