Is med school for me?

[bobthesun]

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Hi Everyone,

If my goal is to run and design clinical trials as well as care for the patients going through this process, is DO school right for me? I have seen the first hand benefit that new drug discoveries are having on patients. Even though I love the discovery aspect of bench work I want to work on patient outcomes more directly. However, I want to be a part of the process and want to help patients by making sure everything is safe for them.

Is medicine right for me? How can I use a DO degree to get me there. I'm trying to brainstorm for my personal statement.

If I tell interviews and med school that my long term goal is to work in clinical research and help advance medicine through that avenue, does it hurt my application? I just think I recognize that I can have a much larger impact and touch hundreds of more patients if I am involved in process safely bringing new drugs to patients.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Most do schools don't really do high amounts of research and as such you should aim mostly at MD schools with big research centers.
That being said if you want to do bench research then you should consider a PhD if you want to do clinical then consider MD.

 

[bobthesun]

Most do schools don't really do high amounts of research and as such you should aim mostly at MD schools with big research centers.
That being said if you want to do bench research then you should consider a PhD if you want to do clinical then consider MD.

definitely want to do clinical however my gpa is too low for MD. options? Im mainly just thinking about how i should craft my essay.

 

[bionerd89]

definitely want to do clinical however my gpa is too low for MD. options? Im mainly just thinking about how i should craft my essay.

I don't think you should focus too much on research for your essay....to be honest if your career goal is to do clinical research and work in drug discovery maybe you should reconsider becoming a DO...or a least get a DO/PhD...

 

[cabinbuilder]

DO's really don't do research. I would get a PhD in chemistry or biogenetics and go from there.

 

[darklabel]

I don't think you should focus too much on research for your essay....to be honest if your career goal is to do clinical research and work in drug discovery maybe you should reconsider becoming a DO...or a least get a DO/PhD...

Isn't that only offered by very few schools? I know MSU offers it but not sure of any others....

Also, I wouldn't pursue a PhD and then a DO degree. It just seems like a waste of time and there are opportunities as a DO for research; there just may not be as much as MDs have.

 

[bionerd89]

Isn't that only offered by very few schools? I know MSU offers it but not sure of any others....

Also, I wouldn't pursue a PhD and then a DO degree. It just seems like a waste of time and there are opportunities as a DO for research; there just may not be as much as MDs have.

I agree that there are research opportunities for DO but mostly at DO schools..it seems like OP wants to do clinical trials for new drugs and deal with drug safety which means he/she has to work at a biotech, pharmaceutical company or a big research school...and I don't think those places are very DO friendly...

 

[bobthesun]

Thanks for the help. But i don't want to do phd/bench type research at all. I want to work with patients. I just think wanting to help run clinical trials is something that could set me apart on my application. guess not.

Any suggestions on how I can incorporate my biotech banking experience into my med school app. I actually don't think even some doctors don't truly realize how grand the industry they work in is.

So

 

[bobthesun]

I agree that there are research opportunities for DO but mostly at DO schools..it seems like OP wants to do clinical trials for new drugs and deal with drug safety which means he/she has to work at a biotech, pharmaceutical company or a big research school...and I don't think those places are very DO friendly...

bummer 🙁 that is exactly what I want to do. My gpa and sGPA are not high enough (3.3,3.2) after grade replacement so I am in no position to get into an MD school. That is truly a bummer. I think working with patients on drug safety and working on clinical trials would be a dream job.

Any options for me? Should I just try for DO and not make it a highlight of my app?

 

[DrEnderW]

There's absolutely no reason you couldn't do clinical research as a DO. As a generalization, it would be harder to do basic science research at a big academic institution but this isn't what OP wants. If that were the case, going MD or dual-PhD would be the right choice.

If you look in common surgical journals, just as an example of a specialty with traditional DO bias, you will see multiple DOs doing clinical research in every issue. I see it all the time. It's relatively easy to do clinical research compared to basic science, which demands more of a academic pedigree. Furthermore, one shouldn't use the degree as an excuse not to conduct research. I'm planning on 4 pubs OMS-1, so I assure you it's reasonable if you want to do it. Most DOs just don't want to, which is completely understandable.

 

[darklabel]

I agree that there are research opportunities for DO but mostly at DO schools..it seems like OP wants to do clinical trials for new drugs and deal with drug safety which means he/she has to work at a biotech, pharmaceutical company or a big research school...and I don't think those places are very DO friendly...

Ahhh, you're right. This is an area I don't have much info on, but just wanted to share than DOs do have access to research.

OP, I would definitely bring it up, just don't make it your focus. DO schools usually have a primary care mission so its best to focus more on that. I wouldn't say that it is completely closed off to do what you're aiming for, but let's just leave it at that it's going to be a significant uphill battle. Hopefully someone with info on this can chime in, but idk if any DOs that want to work in what you're interested in frequent these boards (but I'm sure some are out there).

 

[bionerd89]

bummer 🙁 that is exactly what I want to do. My gpa and sGPA are not high enough (3.3,3.2) after grade replacement so I am in no position to get into an MD school. That is truly a bummer. I think working with patients on drug safety and working on clinical trials would be a dream job.

Any options for me? Should I just try for DO and not make it a highlight of my app?

if that is really your dream job then you should definitely look at other options such as getting a pharmD and focus on clinical pharmacy or PhD in pharmacology . You can still do research as a DO but its most likely going to be in academia and not dealing with clinical trials for drug development. If you are happy with just being able to do research in academia then you should try for DO.

 

[bobthesun]

If you look in common surgical journals, just as an example of a specialty with traditional DO bias, you will see multiple DOs doing clinical research in every issue. I see it all the time. It's relatively easy to do clinical research compared to basic science, which demands more of a academic pedigree. Furthermore, one shouldn't use the degree as an excuse not to conduct research. I'm planning on 4 pubs OMS-1, so I assure you it's reasonable if you want to do it. Most DOs just don't want to, which is completely understandable.[/quote]
Thats great! I do want to do clinical research and not as much in the basic science. I think my long term goal would be to be a medical director of a biotech company. I think this could get me there.

if that is really your dream job then you should definitely look at other options such as getting a pharmD and focus on clinical pharmacy or PhD in pharmacology . You can still do research as a DO but its most likely going to be in academia and not dealing with clinical trials for drug development. If you are happy with just being able to do research in academia then you should try for DO.

yea but i ultimately want to work with patients direct care. I also don't really want to do basic science. I do see where you are coming from.

 

[DrEnderW]

DO's really don't do research.

Fortunately, for the future of the DO profession and medicine, the AOA disagrees with this.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...GIC_PLAN_Final__BOT_approved_3.2013._rev2.pdf

One of the biggest hurdles facing the DO degree is the continued skepticism mainstream medicine (and the public) has for OMM. What we need are more DOs competent in research methodologies to start pumping out studies backing the practice of OMM. Again, a recent release for the AOA is recognizing this drastic shortcoming. Encouraging osteo med students to pursue research is crucial and we should not perpetuate and antiquated stereotype that is hindering the advancement of the degree.

 

[costales]

I think my long term goal would be to be a medical director of a biotech company.

Depending on the company, this type of job requires a strong knowledge of pharmacogenomics/gene therapy/DNA mapping at a level beyond what is covered in the standard med school curriculum.

yea but i ultimately want to work with patients direct care. I also don't really want to do basic science.

If you want to work in patient care, get a medical degree.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Fortunately, for the future of the DO profession and medicine, the AOA disagrees with this.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...GIC_PLAN_Final__BOT_approved_3.2013._rev2.pdf

One of the biggest hurdles facing the DO degree is the continued skepticism mainstream medicine (and the public) has for OMM. What we need are more DOs competent in research methodologies to start pumping out studies backing the practice of OMM. Again, a recent release for the AOA is recognizing this drastic shortcoming. Encouraging osteo med students to pursue research is crucial and we should not perpetuate and antiquated stereotype that is hindering the advancement of the degree.

No need to get all philosophical. It was a real world blanket statement. If the OP wants to do research feel free. I wasn't event thinking about research in OMM, that's way off what the OP was talking about - sitting in a lab punding out test tubes.

 

[uscoos1452]

I see it all the time. It's relatively easy to do clinical research compared to basic science, which demands more of a academic pedigree. Furthermore, one shouldn't use the degree as an excuse not to conduct research. I'm planning on 4 pubs OMS-1, so I assure you it's reasonable if you want to do it.

 

[Lost Vagus]

There is no reason at all that DO school would be detrimental to your research goals. I can't speak for any other schools but I know KCUMB has a dual program with KU where you take an extra year to do research after your first year of medical school.

If you end up deciding that med school isn't for you, I would recommend getting a masters of public health and/or phd in public health. We have a professor at KCUMB that is a pharmd and a phd in public health and he is in charge of a huge amount of clinical trials in the area.

 

[bionerd89]

I agree with everything people said about DOs having research opportunities. I am definitely choosing which DO school to attend based on research availability. But the chances of OP becoming a medical director of a biotech company as a DO are very very slim.

 

[bobthesun]

I agree with everything people said about DOs having research opportunities. I am definitely choosing which DO school to attend based on research availability. But the chances of OP becoming a medical director of a biotech company as a DO are very very slim.

I agree with you but why do you say that? Is it because of "stigma"? I know the field is dominated by Md's but i think it's more so because there just more MD's on a numbers scale than DOs.

 

[bionerd89]

I agree with you but why do you say that? Is it because of "stigma"? I know the field is dominated by Md's but i think it's more so because there just more MD's on a numbers scale than DOs.

Its not stigma..the medical director position is super hard to get..and those that get it are usually from prestigious graduate schools or MD medical schools..I think an MD who went to a lower tier medical school will also have a hard time landing that position unless they've had tons of publications in nature or another well-known journal...I'm not saying its impossible but definitely really hard to come by...as someone who works at a pretty big pharmaceutical company I have only seen medical director positions being dominated by MDs so I would love to see DOs fill that position as well ..I think location also has a play in it..if you are in a midwestern state I definitely think its possible..but I'm from the bay area and I know most of these positions are filled by medical graduates from Stanford, UC Davis and UCSF

 

[DrOneDay7]

OP, I can relate to your interest in pursuing both research and medicine. Depending on where you go, there's certainly DO schools out there with research opportunities.

Check out page 11 on the following link:
http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/2014cib/2014 CIB Complete Small.pdf

It lists every single DO school and what dual degree programs are offered at each school. There's like 8-10 DO/Ph.D programs out there and many other different options for dual degrees. There's many perks with DO/Ph.D, as many schools cover a large chunk of your medical school tuition/stipends. But keep in mind, these programs are 7-8 years long and very rigorous.

 

[DrOneDay7]

* Also, not to mention, they're very tough to get into since so few spots are available in such programs.

 

[GUH]

Maybe start with a Master's degree in a relevant field and then re-evaluate. It won't take as long as PhD and it's possible that you may get credit towards the PhD if you later decide to go through that route. Or if after your Master's you really feel like treating patients, go for the DO or MD.

 

[cliquesh]

Getting involve in clinical research is easy. It doesn't matter if you're a DO or MD. It will literally fall in your lap as a resident. During my 3rd month of post grad training, an attending randomly gave me data for a project, and he told me to write the paper. The research department did all the stats and graphs for me. I then wrote the paper over the weekend and it got accepted. It's that simple. Most research, however, including mine, is total bull****. Only a few papers each year really matter. If you want to do high impact meaningful research then you'd probably be better off doing a MD/phd. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[DrOneDay7]

Getting involve in clinical research is easy. It doesn't matter if you're a DO or MD. It will literally fall in your lap as a resident. During my 3rd month of post grad training, an attending randomly gave me data for a project, and he told me to write the paper. The research department did all the stats and graphs for me. I then wrote the paper over the weekend and it got accepted. It's that simple. Most research, however, including mine, is total bullcrap. Only a few papers each year really matter. If you want to do high impact meaningful research then you'd probably be better off doing a MD/phd. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

I also know there's some MD schools that offer clinical research as a 3rd year elective, and I'd have to imagine some DO schools offer that option as well. But that's good to hear that it's that easy to get involved during residency. JW, did you have opportunities to carry out any procedures, or was it strictly writing the manuscript?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Getting involve in clinical research is easy. It doesn't matter if you're a DO or MD. It will literally fall in your lap as a resident. During my 3rd month of post grad training, an attending randomly gave me data for a project, and he told me to write the paper. The research department did all the stats and graphs for me. I then wrote the paper over the weekend and it got accepted. It's that simple. Most research, however, including mine, is total bullcrap. Only a few papers each year really matter. If you want to do high impact meaningful research then you'd probably be better off doing a MD/phd. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

This is not always true. Depends on where you do residency. No one did any research where I trained. No attending approached any of us. Of course there was no research dept either.

 

[Seth Joo]

Hi Everyone,

If my goal is to run and design clinical trials as well as care for the patients going through this process, is DO school right for me? I have seen the first hand benefit that new drug discoveries are having on patients. Even though I love the discovery aspect of bench work I want to work on patient outcomes more directly. However, I want to be a part of the process and want to help patients by making sure everything is safe for them.

Is medicine right for me? How can I use a DO degree to get me there. I'm trying to brainstorm for my personal statement.

If I tell interviews and med school that my long term goal is to work in clinical research and help advance medicine through that avenue, does it hurt my application? I just think I recognize that I can have a much larger impact and touch hundreds of more patients if I am involved in process safely bringing new drugs to patients.

DO schools do not do a lot of research. Also there is a lot of emphasis at many schools on Osteopathic Manipulation, which further detours from traditional biomedical research. Most DO schools are there to produce primary care physicians.

I am not sure how most schools will react to you aiming for clinical research. The short answer to your question is that DO schools will not be right for you.

 

[bionerd89]

Getting involve in clinical research is easy. It doesn't matter if you're a DO or MD. It will literally fall in your lap as a resident. During my 3rd month of post grad training, an attending randomly gave me data for a project, and he told me to write the paper. The research department did all the stats and graphs for me. I then wrote the paper over the weekend and it got accepted. It's that simple. Most research, however, including mine, is total bullcrap. Only a few papers each year really matter. If you want to do high impact meaningful research then you'd probably be better off doing a MD/phd. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.

I think people are swaying away from what the OP is actually asking.. the OP is asking if DO school is right for them if their career goal is to run and design clinical trials..they are not asking if there are research opportunities while in DO school which there obviously are...however if the OP really wants to work in biotech in the future then the type of research he/she does while in medical school has to actually be meaningful and lead to publications in well-respected journals

 

[cliquesh]

I think people are swaying away from what the OP is actually asking.. the OP is asking if DO school is right for them if their career goal is to run and design clinical trials..they are not asking if there are research opportunities while in DO school which there obviously are...however if the OP really wants to work in biotech in the future then the type of research he/she does while in medical school has to actually be meaningful and lead to publications in well-respected journals

I was trying to allude to that point in my previous post. There is a huge difference between clinical research and running clinical trials. You need pretty impressive academic credentials for the latter.

 

[hallowmann]

I was trying to allude to that point in my previous post. There is a huge difference between clinical research and running clinical trials. You need pretty impressive academic credentials for the latter.

Or be amazing at getting grants/making the hospital money.

As a physician OP can be involved in clinical trials all they want, provided that the hospital they train at or work in has a lot of clinical research going on. Also remember, OP seems to be talking more about clinical trials as opposed to drug development, so we're not talking only pharma jobs. That said, running clinical trials, as cliquesh said, is something completely different and usually does require hefty credentials. I do, however, know someone with "mediocre" (at least in terms of medicine) credentials that are amazing at getting grant money because they see opportunities where others don't. That makes them an asset to the hospital and as a result they run trials. They did have to put in a lot of legwork early on, and like I said were very good at what they do.

So yes its possible to be a DO and run clinical trials. Its also really hard and is an uphill battle.

 

[MJS4878]

I work as a research assistant in the busiest emergency department in the state. The director of clinical research is a D.O. and out of the 7 current studies, 4 are being run by a D.O.

This is in emergency medicine so it may not be exactly what OP is talking about, but I just wanted to put my experience out there.

 

[bobthesun]

I work as a research assistant in the busiest emergency department in the state. The director of clinical research is a D.O. and out of the 7 current studies, 4 are being run by a D.O.

This is in emergency medicine so it may not be exactly what OP is talking about, but I just wanted to put my experience out there.

l
Sounds awesome. What kind of research?

 

[MJS4878]

l
Sounds awesome. What kind of research?

There is a wide range of stuff going on. My favorite study right now is with a new form of tissue adhesive, similar to a dermabond, where it is tested on various lacerations that come into the ER.

But some are a little less involved, like studying the utility of a chest x-ray when patients present with chest pain.