Is medicine worth it if I want to go into internal medicine?

[familyaerospace]

I will be well over $300k into debt (undergrad + med school loans) and I originally, and still kind of, want to specialize in internal medicine and work in an outpatient center in the future. Looking online, this will mean I'll make ~$150-200k/year before taxes. After taxes, malpractice insurance, and loan repayments, this number will probably be more than 50% less. Is it still worth doing internal medicine and being a "regular doctor"?

Just remember internal medicine is primary care. Also remember there are places that will help you pay on your loans in exchange for work.

Also "locum tenens" positions are supposed to make really good money, so you could do that for a few years to make extra money to help kill the loans.

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[masaraksh]

I seriously don't know what I'd do with more than $50K a year. Maybe another $10K after taxes would mean I didn't need a housemate. But beyond that, I'd be able to put it all toward my med school loans. I think I can handle that sacrifice for a few years.

So being an internist looks fine to me.

 

[circulus vitios]

I want to get into hospital administration for the sole purpose of financially abusing people like that.

 

[masaraksh]

There are definitely quite a few pre-meds who are perfectly tailored for Goldman-Sachs.

Whats funny is that I know a guy who graduated from maths at an Ivy and was like 'I'm not sure if I want to do medicine or banking. I want to be rich. I doubt I'll make it in banking. Going med school."

 

[masaraksh]

My husband is 54, this is a very real concern for us as he is in IT. However, your salary is depending on your expertise and you must keep up. Data backup, recovery and restore will make someone a ton of money.

He is now making more than he did before even after being downsized due to a variety of reasons. He has also never made 200K a year and has been in IT for over 30 years.

And you're surprised? I mean, IT just doesn't break the 200k barrier. period. regardless of the years of experience. And I'm not meaning to insult that career, I am just saying that with any line of work, there is a plateau and some form of upper limit when discussing compensation.

You can make similar statements about anything. Ask someone who's been a chef for 40 years and they may say 'Ive been a chef for 40 years and never broke 150k'. etc.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Whats funny is that I know a guy who graduated from maths at an Ivy and was like 'I'm not sure if I want to do medicine or banking. I want to be rich. I doubt I'll make it in banking. Going med school."

How long does it take for a banker to make at least $400k a year? I'm not
really sure, but I'm estimating that it's more common after age 30. You can become a spine surgeon by age 34 and make over $400k a year. Maybe the loans get paid off by the time you hit 37 (I'm just guessing here- I could be totally off). But maybe this is the way they see it. Hardcore bankers work over 70 hrs a week for most of their career span. Unless reimbursements completely change, they can make a comparable salary with one of the more lucrative medical specialities.

 

[karayaa]

If the OP is a girl and wants to be just a "regular doctor", it might be worthwhile to consider the NP/PA route instead, because over her lifetime that would offer more money than MD.

There was a study that showed that women make more money as NP/PA than MD, because even though the salary is lower, there's less time spent in training, whch means more time spent working at the real salary (less deferred income), and less debt to pay off by the time you're done.
It's not the same for men, because men tend to work enough hours to make up the difference. Since women often take time off to have kids and work fewer hours than men overall, they have less time to pay off the debt and they don't see the eventual income that male MDs get.

Or you could consider loan repayment programs, or the military. I don't recommend sub-specializing just for the money. That sounds like a recipe for burnout. But your medical interests will probably change during MS3/4 anyway, so don't worry about it.

 

[familyaerospace]

And you're surprised? I mean, IT just doesn't break the 200k barrier. period. regardless of the years of experience. And I'm not meaning to insult that career, I am just saying that with any line of work, there is a plateau and some form of upper limit when discussing compensation.

You can make similar statements about anything. Ask someone who's been a chef for 40 years and they may say 'Ive been a chef for 40 years and never broke 150k'. etc.

I'm just pointing out that the poster claimed their parents who were in IT made $200K/year each and now make less than 75K and they are claiming it is due to age. I think that is borderline crazy. At 54, my husband is making the highest amount he has ever made. I have never met anyone who made 200K a year in IT. I've met a few 100K people but they are not the most common ones.

 

[lmn]

There are definitely quite a few pre-meds who are perfectly tailored for Goldman-Sachs.

By their desire for money and need for people to see them as "elite"? Sure. But I am willing to bet the number of pre-meds who even just have the financial knowledge/mind (not any of the other talents or skills) for Goldman-Sachs is absolutely few to none. Most pre-meds like to think that since they are doing (trying to) something as difficult as becoming a physician that they definitely have the brains and skills to do Wall Street, so incredibly and pathetically wrong since they don't even have the slightest clue as to what path needs to be taken to get into something like Wall Street, imo it is a hell of a lot harder to get into something like IB/PE/high level Wall Street than a good medical school.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

By their desire for money and need for people to see them as "elite"? Sure. But I am willing to bet the number of pre-meds who even just have the financial knowledge/mind (not any of the other talents or skills) for Goldman-Sachs is absolutely few to none. Most pre-meds like to think that since they are doing (trying to) something as difficult as becoming a physician that they definitely have the brains and skills to do Wall Street, so incredibly and pathetically wrong since they don't even have the slightest clue as to what path needs to be taken to get into something like Wall Street, imo it is a hell of a lot harder to get into something like IB/PE/high level Wall Street than a good medical school.

You summed it up well in the 1st 2 sentences. Goldman-esque is a stretch

 

[DokterMom]

You summed it up well in the 1st 2 sentences. Goldman-esque is a stretch

Well said --

With an MD/DO, you will make >$150K.
Going the IT / MBA route, you may make over $150K.

If your chief strength is your smarts, the MD/DO route plays to your strengths, and the smarter you are, the better you will do.

The IT/MBA/Law route appreciates intelligence up to a point, but cares about other skills far more -- ability to network, politic, sell, schmooze. If those are your strengths, you may be able to make far more money (factoring in MD training loss) doing something this. But unless you run your own business/practice, you will always be more vulnerable than in medicine...

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Well said --

With an MD/DO, you will make >$150K.
Going the IT / MBA route, you may make over $150K.

If your chief strength is your smarts, the MD/DO route plays to your strengths, and the smarter you are, the better you will do.

The IT/MBA/Law route appreciates intelligence up to a point, but cares about other skills far more -- ability to network, politic, sell, schmooze. If those are your strengths, you may be able to make far more money (factoring in MD training loss) doing something this. But unless you run your own business/practice, you will always be more vulnerable than in medicine...

So many people on SDN are hell bent on saying business/law make more money than medicine. You are absolutely right. Medicine is low-risk, high payout. The others are high-risk, higher payout (emphasis on high risk aka most don't make it).

 

[EMDO2018]

If you are making 150k as a physician, you are doing something wrong. Some nurses make more than that. Even in internal medicine, there are hospitalist jobs that start off at 250k. I love how people always mention the 0.01 percent of lawyers, businessmen, engineers that make 150k, versus the 95 percent of physicians that make that much or more.

 

[Syndicate]

I'm just pointing out that the poster claimed their parents who were in IT made $200K/year each and now make less than 75K and they are claiming it is due to age. I think that is borderline crazy. At 54, my husband is making the highest amount he has ever made. I have never met anyone who made 200K a year in IT. I've met a few 100K people but they are not the most common ones.

They made 200k as computer programmers, mainly through contract work so that's why I said ~200k. Now, they are in IT management positions and they have annual salary of ~70k


Posted using SDN Mobile

 

[familyaerospace]

They made 200k as computer programmers, mainly through contract work so that's why I said ~200k. Now, they are in IT management positions and they have annual salary of ~70k


Posted using SDN Mobile

My partner used to be a programmer (both as a contractor and not), then went into IT management, then dedicated clients, now disaster recovery.

I envy you your parents.

 

[katiemaude]

I want to get into hospital administration for the sole purpose of financially abusing people like that.

I love it when people bump old threads and then don't read the contents.

You'd have a hard time financially abusing me. I can easily live on $50K a year (and I do it now on $25K) but that doesn't mean I plan on doing that after residency. I know what my mind and my time is worth and I have made choices based on myriad things besides salary (experience, health benefits, school benefits, etc).

People who have no idea how to live on a budget and then blow through their $200K salaries are in desperate need of financial counseling. If you need a fancy car and a huge house to make you happy because you've never had to hack it on your own, and your parents or the school isn't picking up the tab, life is going to suck for you for a long time while you pay back your loans.

 

[Alakazam123]

As a doctor, you will be able to pay off your loans and live comfortably. Very few doctors earn less than $150,000 (before taxes but after malpractice) without making some deliberately career-limiting choices -- eg. working part-time. If it's important to you, you will be able to make considerably more by specializing and/or choosing your practice carefully.

As a software engineer, MBA-type, or lawyer, if you're really good at your job and really good at all the other stuff you need to do to get ahead (company politics, sales), you will probably be able to make the same. If you're not so good at either the work or the schmoozing, you will make considerably less. If you're reach CEO, law partner or land in a successful tech start-up, you could eventually make much, much more. Until then, though, you will almost certainly have to 'pay your dues', work your tail off, most likely at some point, work for an idiot who is much less intelligent and much less capable than you, put in LONG hours, eat the proverbial poop hot dog on occasion, and do soul-suckingly boring, frustrating or ethically-grey work. There are upsides, of course. But if you're considering the downsides of medicine, don't overlook the downsides of the alternative.

Most importantly, look at the career satisfaction, the life satisfaction each option provides. Making money is only one measure of the successful life, and I would argue, not the best one. The whole purpose of earning money is to allow you to live the kind of live you want to live and provide a good and secure life for the people you love. For that, you need 'enough' -- not 'the most'.

Bit of a necrobump, but I'll just give an example of some of my friends. One of them is working at Goldman Sachs and he'll be starting out at roughly $65,000/year. After a year or two, he'll easily get a bonus that puts him in the low 6 figures. Mind you, he has little to no debt, and will be starting his life in his early 20s as opposed to his mid 30s.

In a place like GS, by the time you are in your late 20s to early/mid 30s a lot of smart people become VPs. VPs can pull in anywhere from $300K-1 million/year (it often tends towards the higher end). Now a really smart employee can become a Managing Director by the age of about 42-45, at which point they will be bringing in several million/year (much higher than most doctors will ever see in their lifetime).

Tech certainly pays less, and most people go into it not expecting much money. My dad works in tech and so do his friends. They regularly bring in salaries north of $120K, and work a 9-5 job with no weekend call or any late night events, etc. Not to mention, there is all the added benefits of being an employee 401K, paid-vacation, healthcare, etc.

Even in tech, those that do good work and become directors or senior project leads, can bring in $300K+ depending on the company. In addition, they will be awarded stock-options, that can supplement their income (though to be fair, this is contingent on the employee being familiar with the stock market trends). Many EVP's in tech companies can bring in high six-figure salaries and sometimes touch the 7 figure levels.

Ultimately, even the people outside the medical world who aren't making as much money as doctors gain 2 things from what I've seen:

1. Starting their life younger (early 20s)

2. Better work/life balance

3. Less student loans

 

[DokterMom]

What is this "starting your life" bullshyte?

Is there anyone here who is not actually living their lives? Sure, it's a "medical student life" or a "resident life" but it's every bit as much of a life as any "working for a paycheck" life. It truly isn't like life begins when you graduate from medical school, from residency or from fellowship, or when you become an attending, get married, become a parent or a partner. You're already in it - knee deep.

I'm not being nit-picky here. This is a really important point and something a lot of 20-somethings are oblivious to for a surprisingly long time. This viewpoint is also central to "destination syndrome" -- the all-but inevitable disappointment and disillusionment that happens when you internally carry the expectation that "everything will get better when..."

If you're not living your lives now, start immediately. In the words of one very wise young philosopher:

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."

 

[deleted804295]

I agree with @DokterMom on this starting life stuff.

If by starting life you mean working then you will very much be working in residency.

I don't see what the rush is to work at a computer or cubicle all day for 40+ years.

It's easy to see all the cons of medicine and see all the pros of other career fields but shadow your average Joe working in finance and tech and not the only friend you know in these fields and the narrative you've written in your head quickly changes.

Edit: I also wholly agree on 'starting' your life when you want. I used to be hung up on medicine last year because I was worried I wouldn't have kids until I'm 30+, the fact of the matter is you can date, get married, have kids while pursuing medicine, while in undergrad, while in medical school, while in residency and your life will not be destroyed. Don't hold everything off while doing medicine.

 

[cantankerous]

nvm necrothread

 

[deleted967981]

What is this "starting your life" bullshyte?

Is there anyone here who is not actually living their lives? Sure, it's a "medical student life" or a "resident life" but it's every bit as much of a life as any "working for a paycheck" life. It truly isn't like life begins when you graduate from medical school, from residency or from fellowship, or when you become an attending, get married, become a parent or a partner. You're already in it - knee deep.

I'm not being nit-picky here. This is a really important point and something a lot of 20-somethings are oblivious to for a surprisingly long time. This viewpoint is also central to "destination syndrome" -- the all-but inevitable disappointment and disillusionment that happens when you internally carry the expectation that "everything will get better when..."

If you're not living your lives now, start immediately. In the words of one very wise young philosopher:

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.."

This...I can’t even express how much. I married young, had a lot of kids young, stayed out of college 15 years, then finally went back and finished what I started. I’m matriculating this fall at 39, with two kids in college and three in middle/high school. I’ll start residency at 43, practicing at 46. Have I “started my life” yet? Yes!

I’ve been married 20+ years, and raised two out of five kids to adulthood. I’ve earned two (in May) college degrees, working on my third. I’ve worked jobs, volunteered, been poor, been “rich”, been happy and unhappy, felt overwhelmed, and felt blessed. I’ve been living my life for a long time...I’ve accomplished a lot, but I have more to go. I’ll never be done I don’t think. I enjoy seeing what I can achieve next, what I can learn, and how I can use it.

To all the young people out there who feel like they need to hit certain milestones (career, education, family) to “begin their lives”, I have this advice: you’re living your life right now, where you are, whether that be rich, poor, uneducated, educated, working or unemployed, single or involved. Don’t tell yourself that you have to “arrive” somewhere and then you’ll be “done” and you can be happy or accomplished or whatever. There is no “done” until the end of your life.

 

[Lardy Boy]

Thank you Moocile for stating that. I’ve recently come to terms that I shouldn’t measure my success with milestones and how early or fast I can obtain it (helps by not comparing myself with friends and colleagues). Life isn’t one smooth path. I believe As long I don’t give up or regret my choices, things will work out.

 

[lalalallala]

As a doctor, you will be able to pay off your loans and live comfortably. Very few doctors earn less than $150,000 (before taxes but after malpractice) without making some deliberately career-limiting choices -- eg. working part-time. If it's important to you, you will be able to make considerably more by specializing and/or choosing your practice carefully.

As a software engineer, MBA-type, or lawyer, if you're really good at your job and really good at all the other stuff you need to do to get ahead (company politics, sales), you will probably be able to make the same. If you're not so good at either the work or the schmoozing, you will make considerably less. If you're reach CEO, law partner or land in a successful tech start-up, you could eventually make much, much more. Until then, though, you will almost certainly have to 'pay your dues', work your tail off, most likely at some point, work for an idiot who is much less intelligent and much less capable than you, put in LONG hours, eat the proverbial poop hot dog on occasion, and do soul-suckingly boring, frustrating or ethically-grey work. There are upsides, of course. But if you're considering the downsides of medicine, don't overlook the downsides of the alternative.

Most importantly, look at the career satisfaction, the life satisfaction each option provides. Making money is only one measure of the successful life, and I would argue, not the best one. The whole purpose of earning money is to allow you to live the kind of live you want to live and provide a good and secure life for the people you love. For that, you need 'enough' -- not 'the most'.

First year post college finance (any big bank) or tech (fb, google, etc) salaries are 120k-185k. Online it may appear as less because they don't list the bonuses. Big banks in NYC it would look like 70-80k in salary and then 50-30k in bonus. More in silicon valley. No need to act like you have to be an exceptional 'engineer, mba-type' to be exceeding that 150k. I'm not discouraging OP at all from medicine - I just feel the need to correct inaccurate info.

OP I think you should look into the loan repayment programs focused on primary care physicians. These are programs where you get your loans forgiven for working a couple years in an underserved community.

 

[lalalallala]

I had a very interesting interaction with an interviewer at one of my schools:

She spoke to me about how happy she was that it seems like the current applicants coming into medical school are doing it "for the right reasons". To her the right reasons were altruism, service, improvement of society, etc. She was a relatively young physician (would guess mid-40s) and she spoke of how physicians of the last generation (trained in the 70s and 80s) went into medicine to get rich or for a certain status.

I can see how people of this generation who went into medicine for these reasons aren't the most positive about its prospects for the future. Salaries have hit a wall and there is continued added bureaucracy and paperwork. I think that the more competitive of the specialty that you talk to, the more likely it is that they carry these sentiments. The people who went into these sub-specialties back when they were training were likely the ones carrying this make $$, gain prestige mentality.

You know your reasons for becoming a physician and don't let anything (especially negative old-timers) get in the way of them.

In those older people's generation - being a doctor meant being rich. Making 150k a year in most cities isn't rich in my eyes. Not if you have a couple kids you're trying to support. So yes as physician salaries have become lower in relation to the value of a dollar/other prospects physicians no longer can bet on being rich by being a doctor. Not with school costing as much as it does and then most people wanting to buy a house, save for college, save for retirement.

I don't see it as such an improvement in the motives of the applicants - rather it's a decrease in the incentives which removes some people from the pool

 

[Alakazam123]

What is this "starting your life" bullshyte?

Is there anyone here who is not actually living their lives? Sure, it's a "medical student life" or a "resident life" but it's every bit as much of a life as any "working for a paycheck" life. It truly isn't like life begins when you graduate from medical school, from residency or from fellowship, or when you become an attending, get married, become a parent or a partner. You're already in it - knee deep.

I'm not being nit-picky here. This is a really important point and something a lot of 20-somethings are oblivious to for a surprisingly long time. This viewpoint is also central to "destination syndrome" -- the all-but inevitable disappointment and disillusionment that happens when you internally carry the expectation that "everything will get better when..."

If you're not living your lives now, start immediately. In the words of one very wise young philosopher:

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.."

Many who've taken to medical school have sacrificed their 20s and were studying while their friends had jobs and even started families. I'm just addressing that aspect of things. The average physician is in their early 30s by the time they get out. All I was trying to say, was that for a person who's intelligent enough to get into medical school, and possibly intelligent enough to get into a top specialty, they should be able to do very well in other careers like IB, consulting, legal, and even in the tech world.

There's of course no rule on when you should start your life. There are many non-trads on this forum who worked other jobs and I understand that. It was not my intention to undermine their efforts or accomplishments. At my local medical school, there is a guy who entered medical school at the age of 45.

Robert Cerfolio, a famous thoracic surgeon became a certified personal trainer in his 50s, and got his MBA in his late 40s. So, I absolutely understand that people can still start things later on in life and it's not a bad thing per se. Warren Buffett, did not become a billionaire until he was 56. Larry Ellison did not become a billionaire until he was 52, and many of the hedge fund billionaires on Wall Street did not reach that much net worth until they were in their late 40s or mid 50s. So, yes, I absolutely agree that success may come in all shapes, sizes, and age brackets.

I did not mean to come off in a negative way with my earlier post.

 

[DokterMom]

First year post college finance (any big bank) or tech (fb, google, etc) salaries are 120k-185k. Online it may appear as less because they don't list the bonuses. Big banks in NYC it would look like 70-80k in salary and then 50-30k in bonus. More in silicon valley. No need to act like you have to be an exceptional 'engineer, mba-type' to be exceeding that 150k. I'm not discouraging OP at all from medicine - I just feel the need to correct inaccurate info.

OP I think you should look into the loan repayment programs focused on primary care physicians. These are programs where you get your loans forgiven for working a couple years in an underserved community.

You're comparing the best-paying jobs in tech and finance to the worst-paying in medicine, and yes, if that's your comparison point, then medicine can lose. Do be aware though, that those lucrative tech and finance jobs also come with hours commensurate with the pay.

 

[lalalallala]

How long does it take for a banker to make at least $400k a year? I'm not
really sure, but I'm estimating that it's more common after age 30. You can become a spine surgeon by age 34 and make over $400k a year. Maybe the loans get paid off by the time you hit 37 (I'm just guessing here- I could be totally off). But maybe this is the way they see it. Hardcore bankers work over 70 hrs a week for most of their career span. Unless reimbursements completely change, they can make a comparable salary with one of the more lucrative medical specialities.

Med school route: 22-26 in med school accumulating 60k in debt a year (i'm being generous on that number); residency: making 60k a year about - will say 10k a year is for loans (generous) for 5 years; okay so now you're 31 and ignoring interest you have 190k in loans so your first year making 400k you pay off half that 190k after taxes/living and you do the same next year; so now you are 33 and finally able to save

Banking: 22-you make 120k
23-you make 140k
24-180k
25- 210k
26- 240k
27-290k
28-330k
29- 375k
30- ...
...
33- look how much money you've racked up before your med school friend has started making money

avg increases are coming from my school's post-grad salary reports for finance majors

 

[lalalallala]

You're comparing the best-paying jobs in tech and finance to the worst-paying in medicine, and yes, if that's your comparison point, then medicine can lose. Do be aware though, that those lucrative tech and finance jobs also come with hours commensurate with the pay.

first year banking job hours are no worse than resident's up to 80 hours and drop off much quicker than residents.

 

[deleted967981]

Many who've taken to medical school have sacrificed their 20s and were studying while their friends had jobs and even started families. I'm just addressing that aspect of things. The average physician is in their early 30s by the time they get out. All I was trying to say, was that for a person who's intelligent enough to get into medical school, and possibly intelligent enough to get into a top specialty, they should be able to do very well in other careers like IB, consulting, legal, and even in the tech world.

There's of course no rule on when you should start your life. There are many non-trads on this forum who worked other jobs and I understand that. It was not my intention to undermine their efforts or accomplishments. At my local medical school, there is a guy who entered medical school at the age of 45.

Robert Cerfolio, a famous thoracic surgeon became a certified personal trainer in his 50s, and got his MBA in his late 40s. So, I absolutely understand that people can still start things later on in life and it's not a bad thing per se.. Warren Buffett, did not become a billionaire until he was 56. Larry Ellison did not become a billionaire until he was 52, and many of the hedge fund billionaires on Wall Street did not reach that much net worth until they were in their late 40s or mid 50s. So, yes, I absolutely agree that success may come in all shapes, sizes, and age brackets.

I did not mean to come off in a negative way with my earlier post.

I didn’t take it in a negative light, fwiw. My goal was to point out that even though some of us took the “scenic route”, we’ve still been out there living life.

I have a 21 and 18 year old. I think they sometimes feel like their lives are on hold while they’re in college and “figuring things out” like career, relationships, etc. I know I felt that way at their ages. It wasn’t until later that I looked back and realized I should have been more present back then, instead of thinking “my life starts when [fill in the blank accomplishment] is achieved.”

 

[toot_poot]

Why the dentist with $1 million in student debt spells trouble for federal loan programs

just dont be this guy (dentist but still a cautionary tale)

 

[enalli]

What is this "starting your life" bullshyte?

Is there anyone here who is not actually living their lives? Sure, it's a "medical student life" or a "resident life" but it's every bit as much of a life as any "working for a paycheck" life. It truly isn't like life begins when you graduate from medical school, from residency or from fellowship, or when you become an attending, get married, become a parent or a partner. You're already in it - knee deep.

I'm not being nit-picky here. This is a really important point and something a lot of 20-somethings are oblivious to for a surprisingly long time. This viewpoint is also central to "destination syndrome" -- the all-but inevitable disappointment and disillusionment that happens when you internally carry the expectation that "everything will get better when..."

If you're not living your lives now, start immediately. In the words of one very wise young philosopher:

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.."

Love the advice about living life to the fullest all the time, but I think you've missed the point here.

Obviously I lived a life during medical school and residency; I had significant milestones and made the best of it given the circumstances. Now that I'm out of residency, though, my life is infinitely better. My friends who didn't go to med school have had 7 years of this improved life. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want 7 more years of this life starting in my early 20s. That realization is how I interpret "starting life younger."

Is "destination syndrome" so bad? Something has got to keep you going during the dark months of studying for Step 1, being the Trauma Surgery intern, etc. Thinking about the future was one of the ways I coped; and you know what? everything basically did get better when I graduated from residency.

 

[subdermallight]

All that’s in this thread is people comparing themselves to other people. What happens when ol’ John Doe’s company gets bought out and he gets laid off? What happened to little Jimmy with his tech startup that busted (which he worked over day and night for years). Life is uncertain for everyone and so are careers. People in this thread talking about how you just gotta be smart and then by the time you’re 30 that you will be pulling in 300k. If it was that easy there would be a lot more people doing it and I think you’re underestimating the role of luck and how many people lose out to no fault of their own.

Medicine is great, because if you do have a passion for it, you can be happy and also have a stable job that provides enough income to live comfortably. I think financially the most attractive thing about medicine is this stability. No lay offs, you can be your own boss, you will always have a job anywhere in the world with an MD. And if it’s a passion, you shouldn’t feel too bad to “give up” your twenties for it. Afterall, all those big shots in finance and law worked 100hr weeks in their 20s. I personally know some, it’s what it takes there too.

Life isn’t easy anyway you slice it. Follow what you love and also make sure you can make a living off of it. The rest falls into place.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Med school route: 22-26 in med school accumulating 60k in debt a year (i'm being generous on that number); residency: making 60k a year about - will say 10k a year is for loans (generous) for 5 years; okay so now you're 31 and ignoring interest you have 190k in loans so your first year making 400k you pay off half that 190k after taxes/living and you do the same next year; so now you are 33 and finally able to save

Banking: 22-you make 120k
23-you make 140k
24-180k
25- 210k
26- 240k
27-290k
28-330k
29- 375k
30- ...
...
33- look how much money you've racked up before your med school friend has started making money

avg increases are coming from my school's post-grad salary reports for finance majors

Wow, 2014 seems like yesterday lol.
Spine surgeon > banker any day of the week.

 

[M&L]

Wow, 2014 seems like yesterday lol.
Spine surgeon > banker any day of the week.

Yeah, this thread makes me sad . If someone asks me “is medicine worth it?” I just say “no, don’t do it”. Because it usually means that those people are driven by financial gain . I am not ! And I am non - traditional student (33), I already had a different career . And there is NOTHING I’d rather do , then medicine . NOTHING. I think a person should Become s doctor if there is literally nothing else he’d rather do in life

 

[LukaDoncicLuk]

Yeah, this thread makes me sad . If someone asks me “is medicine worth it?” I just say “no, don’t do it”. Because it usually means that those people are driven by financial gain . I am not ! And I am non - traditional student (33), I already had a different career . And there is NOTHING I’d rather do , then medicine . NOTHING. I think a person should Become s doctor if there is literally nothing else he’d rather do in life

How would you know this before you have spent any at time at all in medicine?

If I'm going to spend 100K on tuition and receive 8 years of substandard or no pay I better feel like I am fairly compensated when all is said and done.

 

[M&L]

How would you know this before you have spent any at time at all in medicine?

If I'm going to spend 100K on tuition and receive 8 years of substandard or no pay I better feel like I am fairly compensated when all is said and done.

what do you mean? you mean GENERALLY SPEAKING, or you are asking me how i personally know it?

 

[ndafife]

Median household income in the US is ~59,000. Aka right around what my salary is going to be in a couple months as a first year resident. So given this thread is all about comparing ourselves to the top 1% of finance people who work on wall street as opposed to all the people at your local branch of Main Street Bank. The bottom person in my class is matching to a program that is gonna pay them more than half the country. Then after 3 years of that they are gonna get a $250k a year job. I dont think any profession is gonna set anything other than the elite of the elite for that.

 

[lalalallala]

Yes the median income is 59k and only 33% of US citizens have a college degree. But, the poster asked about spine surgeons. I was not doing a comparison between the average US citizen and a spine surgeon - I was doing a comparison of what a spine surgeon may have gone into instead which considering the finance recruiting at top schools is so popular and profitable it makes sense. Comparing a career as a spine surgeon to a career at a big bank makes much more sense than comparing it to the average US citizen.

 

[DokterMom]

The part so many of you are overlooking is that the skill set that enables you to succeed as a doctor (succeed being rather modestly defined as pass boards and complete a residency in any specialty) is not the same skill set as the one that will enable some of your classmates to succeed at a >$200K level in finance or tech.

Yeah, you've got the smarts or you wouldn't be here. And most of you have sufficient motivation - again, or you wouldn't be here. But don't underestimate the hours and dedication needed to climb the tech/finance ladder. Your soon-to-be >$200K classmates aren't turning in 40 hour work weeks and living balanced lives -- they're breaking their backsides with far fewer guarantees than you have. Yes, the hardest working and most ruthless of them will get there. But many will not, even if they do sell their souls. Or they'll hate the pressure, the shady ethics, the sales culture, the EGOs!. Or they'll question the ultimate value of their contributions. Are they making the world a better place for anyone but their ex-spouses and children?

If you really think the grass is greener, step on over that fence and try it for a while...

 

[subdermallight]

Yup, that's the best answer you're going to get @lalalallala. Let's put this 5 year old thread back to rest