Is Midwestern-Glendale worth the cost?

[dentaldiva27]

Hey guys! I just got accepted to MWU-AZ today and I’m trying to justify the cost. I loved the area, school, people and the clinic seemed really great. However, I feel like they really talked up their program and were really trying to sell you on going there. The tuition is crazy expensive so I’m just not sure if it’s as good of a school as they make it sound. Does anyone have any advice or pros/cons of MWU? I would greatly appreciate it!

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[887194]

What are your options?

 

[O Gaúcho]

Both the Midwesterns are great schools. But if you have a cheaper alternative then go to the cheaper school.

 

[dentaldiva27]

What are your options?

So I got into Temple as well which is my state school but I am really not thrilled about the location. I know it makes more sense financially but I haven’t heard the best things about that school. What are your thoughts?

 

[887194]

So I got into Temple as well which is my state school but I am really not thrilled about the location. I know it makes more sense financially but I haven’t heard the best things about that school. What are your thoughts?

I heard some great things about Temple and I have an interview there in a couple weeks. In my eyes Temple> MWU-AZ. Every school will have some bad apples and things that can be improved. The difference in cost is over 200k and both schools are strong clinically. I can see how the location of Arizona maybe appealing but unless you really want to boggle down and work rural afterwards to pay the debt off in a reasonable time I would stick with Temple.

 

[dentaldiva27]

Go to Temple. It is absolute nonsense to pay more for a school that has a similar (biased, but I believe inferior) type of training. What people don't understand about Temple, is that while the area is unsafe, you will NEVER venture off of Broad street, and that stretch of the medical campus is filled with students and doctors all day long. You aren't going to live there either. Live in Center City, enjoy one of the most amazing cities in the US and take the 14 minute subway ride to and from school everyday. It's literally a no brainer. If you have any questions about Temple, please let me know. I promise you that if you choose MWU-AZ (and the extra debt that comes with it) you will hate yourself in 4 years when you see the total loan amount you owe back.

Oh and Temple is SUPERB. I am in an AEGD with students from multiple schools around the country, and I got a much better clinical experience than them and learned as much, if not more.

I love Philadelphia as I have been living in Philly for the past 3 years but there are some things that I really dislike about being there. For one the people are not very friendly and there isn't much naturey things to do that I haven't already done. The traffic is also the worsttttt. I just really want to move to a different area that I haven't been before but ultimately it's probably not worth the cost. I've heard that although you get to see a ton of patients, the faculty isn't very helpful and you still have to do a ton of outdated practices. Midwestern really seemed to highlight their community there and everyone seemed super friendly. They also try to sell you on their strong clinic and say they are the only school where you can place implants. I'm not sure if everything they bragged about though is actually as great as it seems. I have read a few posts where people say they really regret going to Temple though and wish they would have gone anywhere else. I just don't want to end up somewhere where I will be unhappy for the next 4 years.

 

[887194]

I love Philadelphia as I have been living in Philly for the past 3 years but there are some things that I really dislike about being there. For one the people are not very friendly and there isn't much naturey things to do that I haven't already done. The traffic is also the worsttttt. I just really want to move to a different area that I haven't been before but ultimately it's probably not worth the cost. I've heard that although you get to see a ton of patients, the faculty isn't very helpful and you still have to do a ton of outdated practices. Midwestern really seemed to highlight their community there and everyone seemed super friendly. They also try to sell you on their strong clinic and say they are the only school where you can place implants. I'm not sure if everything they bragged about though is actually as great as it seems. I have read a few posts where people say they really regret going to Temple though and wish they would have gone anywhere else. I just don't want to end up somewhere where I will be unhappy for the next 4 years.

They are not the only school to place implants; there are many others. They tow the line with what they say, I personally didn't like that since they are effectively lying. I don't think the traffic is as bad as here in Toronto or LA or NYC. Regardless, the cycle isn't over and perhaps some other options may open up to you.

 

[KK Lin]

I also got into these two schools and I am an international student who’s not qualified for in-state tuition. Even though, the price difference is huge. I choose to go to Temple because it can save me a ton, around 100k. I like the high-tech and beautiful clinic at mwu-az, but I really cannot afford it. Temple is very nice too and good at clinical training, so I don’t regret my choice. I spent my three years in high school nearby Philly and returning to Philly makes me feel like going home again. Let me know if you choose to go to Temple, we’ll be classmate! Good luck!

 

[2TH MVR]

Go to the cheaper school. Period. I know of two MWU grads that have been out of dental school for a couple of years. One is working Corp and the other is an associate. The one in Corp owes over $500K and she is stuck at the Corp job and is going nowhere fast. The other associated with two owner dentists (next to my practice) and was supposed to buy out the senior dentist when he retired. Well ...he retired recently and the Associate MWU graduate (who btw loved to tell me how to do orthodontics) decided last minute not to buy in due to his LARGE school debt. I know. Small sample size.

I do not believe that a school MAKES a good, successful dentist. It's up to the person to make the most of their dental education. Once out in the real world .....NOBODY will care what dental school you went to. Your real training comes AFTER dental school.

 

[KK Lin]

Go to the cheaper school. Period. I know of two MWU grads that have been out of dental school for a couple of years. One is working Corp and the other is an associate. The one in Corp owes over $500K and she is stuck at the Corp job and is going nowhere fast. The other associated with two owner dentists (next to my practice) and was supposed to buy out the senior dentist when he retired. Well ...he retired recently and the Associate MWU graduate (who btw loved to tell me how to do orthodontics) decided last minute not to buy in due to his LARGE school debt. I know. Small sample size.

I do not believe that a school MAKES a good, successful dentist. It's up to the person to make the most of their dental education. Once out in the real world .....NOBODY will care what dental school you went to. Your real training comes AFTER dental school.

It’s sad to hear this story. Since they have been out of school for couple years and the tuition and fees are increasing at the rate of 4%-7%, I will assume the debt now is over 650k... Unless parents wanna pay for the 500k expense to avoid the interest, otherwise it will be a huge debt.

 

[babowc]

I got accepted to MWU, Western, and my state school. I ended up at the state school once I compared to costs, more than double. Financially, it made most sense although the Augusta area is dismal.

 

[californiway21]

Not to mention, but AZ gets hot as f....

 

[Cello]

Interesting thread. It seems there is a lot of bias in here, so I'll offer the other side as a current MWU-AZ student. I will be probably be equally biased.

First, a lot of people in this thread seem to have horror stories about grads from our program. For everyone you know who is failing, I can give you an example of a grad from our school who is doing exceptionally well. And don't think for a moment that there aren't people graduating from other schools and working corporate, going "nowhere fast" as someone earlier said. I hate to break it to you guys, but most of you will be working corporate straight out of school too.

A D4 friend of mine here at MWU-AZ is buying a practice grossing over $1 million. He is an outlier in that he is smart and super motivated, but he managed to secure the small business loans DESPITE having a huge debt load like the rest of us. He also runs a dental podcast (some of you may have heard it) about buying dental practices.

Our program is expensive. All private dental schools are expensive. If you don't have the luxury of a state school like me, then you choose the best private option you can find. OP has the choice between Temple and MWU-AZ. After doing the fee + tuition calculations I found Temple's tuition cost to be $295,032 for a PA resident. Tuition + fees at MWU-AZ is $368,897.

If you are not a PA resident, then you will pay $323,840 to go to Temple which really isn't that much cheaper than MWU-AZ folks; especially not when you consider how much money you save on CE and living expenses by going to Midwestern. For OP it makes slightly more financial sense to go to Temple (cost of living?), but not everyone is a PA resident. But OP isn't a fool for considering MWU-AZ.

There are a lot of people here arguing that MWU-AZ offers an inferior clinical education. I find that interesting, because every other week we have faculty and admin from other schools touring our SIM clinic to see what we're doing differently. Just this year UDM decided to revamp their entire pre-clinical course and base it off of our program. Every year we are taking transfer students from other programs who are absolutely blown away by what we are doing.

When I was interviewing, the one question I asked students at each dental school was "if you didn't go here, where would you go?" The most consistent answer I got was "MWU-AZ, because they are learning way more stuff than anyone else I know." UOP was a close second. When I was speaking with OMFS residents, radiology residents, anesthesia residents at other programs they consistently said that MWU-AZ is offering things to their pre-doctoral students that no other school can match. They meet our students on the interview circuit, compare notes, and are surprised at what we do here. Maybe I just happened to speak to a bunch of people across the country who had super positive things to say about this program, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

So yeah, you can talk about how Creighton places implants. Good for them. Do they learn four different implant systems (Bicon, BioHorizons, Straumann, and Hiossen) during their 2nd year when most dental students are still studying for the boards we passed after our first year? And guess who will be sucking up all the implants cases at many dental schools? The OMFS and perio residents... We have 2 OMFS residents here at MWU-AZ (only 1 at any given time though), meaning the vast majority of implants go to us. Students who aren't interested in implants usually hand them off to students who are. Given that we live in a retirement city, the 4th largest metropolitan area in the US now (larger than Philly), we get lots of retired folks with money and aging dentition. What is the patient population like at your favorite school?

And one of the beautiful things about our program is that because the patient is ours, we get to say whether or not we want to do the case or hand it off. There is no ortho resident breathing down our necks waiting for a particularly juicy case to come along to steal away from us. If we choose to keep the case, then our specialty faculty will work with us 1-on-1 in the specialty clinic and help us do even the most difficult molar endo or impacted bony third extraction. In the entire state of Arizona there is only one small ortho residency at ASDOH and one small OMFS program at our school. We get to do a ton of procedures that students at other schools have to feed to their specialty students and residents.

Going back to the subject of implants, we are guaranteed placement of 4 dental implants at the very least. That's the minimum. Students who want to are placing WAY more. I know a female grad last year who placed 25 by herself from start to finish, and assisted with placement of 40+ more. She had lost count and had to look back at her charts to tell me what she'd done. She said other people in the class had done more. Our school allows pre-doctoral students to complete implant-supported overdentures (TRINIA) from start to finish. How many schools are allowing pre-doctoral students to do that? Is that worth the increased cost of tuition?

Lots of interviewees come through our program and get confused when they are told we are the only school that does this or that. We are the only school allowing pre-doctoral students to do their own implant-supported overdentures cases as far as I know, and that is the claim our school makes. No other school has the facilities or trains their pre-doctoral students to do so. If you guys know of another school where pre-doctoral students are doing their own CBCT, 3D printed surgical guides, osteotomy, quadruple implant placement with gingival and bone grafting, and then fabricating complete implant-supported overdentures, please tell me about it because I would love to be able to recommend more programs for anyone seeking this kind of education.

Our dental clinic is the most productive in the US. Years ago it was UOP, now it's us. I'm told we put out more CAD/CAM dentistry than any single clinic in the United States. Where some schools are averaging 5-6 crown placements, our school is averaging over 40. Last year I assisted a D4 who placed NINE lithium disilicate crowns in the same patient during one clinic day. (EDIT: Last year, the student pair next to me seated prepped 12 units on a morning appointment, temporized, then seated all 12 units in a single afternoon) Not a single dentist I shadowed ever placed that many in a single day on the same patient! The next time I rotated, her D3 partner was placing SIX CAD/CAM crowns (lithium disilicate and Zirconia with shading) in a patient. How many CAD/CAM crowns are being done at other schools? Is that possibly worth more tuition?

How many schools are allowing pre-doctoral students to treatment plan ortho cases, place brackets, and to do their own Invisalign cases? How many schools will allow you to see 8+ patients per clinic day? Does Temple even have the capacity to allow students to see that many patients? Most schools see 2-3 IF you can even get the chair time. How many schools are using hard and soft tissue lasers in their clinic? How many schools are actively encouraging their pre-doctoral students to get their PALS and ACLS certifications for advanced sedation?

Is our school expensive? Yes it is when compared to state programs. But when you compare us to private schools, not so much. All private schools are expensive.

 

[endorotary]

Interesting thread. It seems there is a lot of bias in here, so I'll offer the other side as a current MWU-AZ student. I will be probably be equally biased.

First, a lot of people in this thread seem to have horror stories about grads from our program. For everyone you know who is failing, I can give you an example of a grad from our school who is doing exceptionally well. And don't think for a moment that there aren't people graduating from other schools and working corporate, going "nowhere fast" as someone earlier said. I hate to break it to you guys, but most of you will be working corporate straight out of school too.

A D4 friend of mine here at MWU-AZ is buying a practice grossing $1.2 million. He is an outlier in that he is smart and super motivated, but he managed to secure the small business loans DESPITE having a huge debt load like the rest of us. He also runs a dental podcast (some of you may have heard it) about buying dental practices.

Our program is expensive. All private dental schools are expensive. If you don't have the luxury of a state school like me, then you choose the best private option you can find. OP has the choice between Temple and MWU-AZ. After doing the fee + tuition calculations I found Temple's tuition cost to be $295,032 for a PA resident. Tuition + fees at MWU-AZ is $368,897.

If you are not a PA resident, then you will pay $323,840 to go to Temple which really isn't that much cheaper than MWU-AZ folks; especially not when you consider how much money you save on CE and living expenses by going to Midwestern. For OP it makes slightly more financial sense to go to Temple (cost of living?), but not everyone is a PA resident. But OP isn't a fool for considering MWU-AZ.

There are a lot of people here arguing that MWU-AZ offers an inferior clinical education. I find that interesting, because every other week we have faculty and admin from other schools touring our SIM clinic to see what we're doing differently. Just this year UDM decided to revamp their entire pre-clinical course and base it off of our program. Every year we are taking transfer students from other programs who are absolutely blown away by what we are doing.

When I was interviewing, the one question I asked students at each dental school was "if you didn't go here, where would you go?" The most consistent answer I got was "MWU-AZ, because they are learning way more stuff than anyone else I know." UOP was a close second. When I was speaking with OMFS residents, radiology residents, anesthesia residents at other programs they consistently said that MWU-AZ is offering things to their pre-doctoral students that no other school can match. They meet our students on the interview circuit, compare notes, and are surprised at what we do here. Maybe I just happened to speak to a bunch of people across the country who had super positive things to say about this program, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

So yeah, you can talk about how Creighton places implants. Good for them. Do they learn four different implant systems (Bicon, BioHorizons, Straumann, and Hiossen) during their 2nd year when most dental students are still studying for the boards we passed after our first year? And guess who will be sucking up all the implants cases at many dental schools? The OMFS and perio residents... We have 4 OMFS residents here at MWU-AZ, meaning the vast majority of implants go to us. Students who aren't interested in implants usually hand them off to students who are. Given that we live in a retirement city, the 5th largest metropolitan area in the US now (larger than Philly), we get lots of retired folks with money and aging dentition. What is the patient population like at your favorite school?

And one of the beautiful things about our program is that because the patient is ours, we get to say whether or not we want to do the case or hand it off. There is no ortho resident breathing down our necks waiting for a particularly juicy case to come along to steal away from us. If we choose to keep the case, then our specialty faculty will work with us 1-on-1 in the specialty clinic and help us do even the most difficult molar endo or impacted bony third extraction. In the entire state of Arizona there is only one small ortho residency at ASDOH and one small OMFS program at our school. We get to do a ton of procedures that students at other schools have to feed to their specialty students and residents.

Going back to the subject of implants, we are guaranteed placement of 4 dental implants at the very least. That's the minimum. Students who want to are placing WAY more. I know a female grad last year who placed 25 by herself from start to finish, and assisted with placement of 40+ more. She had lost count and had to look back at her charts to tell me what she'd done. She said other people in the class had done more. I have multiple all-on-four cases setup for next year when I go over to the clinic. How many schools are allowing pre-doctoral students to place all-on-fours from start to finish? Is Creighton doing that?

Lots of interviewees come through our program and get confused when they are told we are the only school that does this or that. We are the only school allowing pre-doctoral students to do their own all-on-four prosthetic cases as far as I know, and that is the claim our school makes. No other school has the facilities or trains their pre-doctoral students to do so. If you guys know of another school where pre-doctoral students are doing their own CBCT, 3D printed surgical guides, osteotomy, quadruple implant placement with gingival and bone grafting, and then placing an all-on-four system, please tell me about it because I would love to look into that program further. How many schools even have one CBCT? We have multiple!

Our dental clinic is the most productive in the US. Years ago it was UOP, now it's us. We put out more CAD/CAM dentistry than anywhere on Earth. Where some schools are averaging 5-6 crown placements, our school is averaging over 40. Last year I assisted a D4 who placed NINE lithium disilicate crowns in the same patient during one clinic day. Not a single dentist I shadowed ever placed that many in a single day on the same patient! The next time I rotated, her D3 partner was placing SIX CAD/CAM crowns (lithium disilicate and Zirconia with shading) in a patient. How many CAD/CAM crowns are being done at other schools? How many Cerec, E4D, and Trios scanners / mills do other schools actually have for their pre-doctoral students? Oh right, many schools are still doing PFM... Because that's definitely the future. 🙄

How many schools are allowing pre-doctoral students to treatment plan ortho cases, place brackets, and to do their own Invisalign cases? How many schools will allow you to see 8+ patients per clinic day? Does Temple even have the capacity to allow students to see that many patients? Most schools see 2-3 IF you can even get the chair time. How many schools are using hard and soft tissue lasers in their clinic? How many schools are actively encouraging their pre-doctoral students to get their PALS and ACLS certifications for advanced sedation?

We have opportunities to go to Tonga, Samoa, and Guatemala, which many of us do to beef up our endo experience. If there is one area that our clinic may be lacking, it is endo cases. Some students will do a bunch of them, but for the most part, we do mission trips to get more endo experience.

Is our school expensive? Yes it is when compared to state programs. But when you compare us to private schools, not so much. All private schools are expensive.

And before anyone assumes that I didn't have other options, I was accepted to six programs. I had no state option, and given what I learned about MWU-AZ determined that this was the best way to spend way too much money for a degree.

Cello, thanks for the detailed response regarding your school, your school definitely sounds like it prepares the students well clinically to go out and practice straight out of school. Do you know how many students each year apply for GPR/AEGD's or do the majority feel prepared enough to go straight into private practice?

 

[KK Lin]

Interesting thread. It seems there is a lot of bias in here, so I'll offer the other side as a current MWU-AZ student. I will be probably be equally biased.

First, a lot of people in this thread seem to have horror stories about grads from our program. For everyone you know who is failing, I can give you an example of a grad from our school who is doing exceptionally well. And don't think for a moment that there aren't people graduating from other schools and working corporate, going "nowhere fast" as someone earlier said. I hate to break it to you guys, but most of you will be working corporate straight out of school too.

A D4 friend of mine here at MWU-AZ is buying a practice grossing $1.2 million. He is an outlier in that he is smart and super motivated, but he managed to secure the small business loans DESPITE having a huge debt load like the rest of us. He also runs a dental podcast (some of you may have heard it) about buying dental practices.

Our program is expensive. All private dental schools are expensive. If you don't have the luxury of a state school like me, then you choose the best private option you can find. OP has the choice between Temple and MWU-AZ. After doing the fee + tuition calculations I found Temple's tuition cost to be $295,032 for a PA resident. Tuition + fees at MWU-AZ is $368,897.

If you are not a PA resident, then you will pay $323,840 to go to Temple which really isn't that much cheaper than MWU-AZ folks; especially not when you consider how much money you save on CE and living expenses by going to Midwestern. For OP it makes slightly more financial sense to go to Temple (cost of living?), but not everyone is a PA resident. But OP isn't a fool for considering MWU-AZ.

There are a lot of people here arguing that MWU-AZ offers an inferior clinical education. I find that interesting, because every other week we have faculty and admin from other schools touring our SIM clinic to see what we're doing differently. Just this year UDM decided to revamp their entire pre-clinical course and base it off of our program. Every year we are taking transfer students from other programs who are absolutely blown away by what we are doing.

When I was interviewing, the one question I asked students at each dental school was "if you didn't go here, where would you go?" The most consistent answer I got was "MWU-AZ, because they are learning way more stuff than anyone else I know." UOP was a close second. When I was speaking with OMFS residents, radiology residents, anesthesia residents at other programs they consistently said that MWU-AZ is offering things to their pre-doctoral students that no other school can match. They meet our students on the interview circuit, compare notes, and are surprised at what we do here. Maybe I just happened to speak to a bunch of people across the country who had super positive things to say about this program, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

So yeah, you can talk about how Creighton places implants. Good for them. Do they learn four different implant systems (Bicon, BioHorizons, Straumann, and Hiossen) during their 2nd year when most dental students are still studying for the boards we passed after our first year? And guess who will be sucking up all the implants cases at many dental schools? The OMFS and perio residents... We have 4 OMFS residents here at MWU-AZ, meaning the vast majority of implants go to us. Students who aren't interested in implants usually hand them off to students who are. Given that we live in a retirement city, the 5th largest metropolitan area in the US now (larger than Philly), we get lots of retired folks with money and aging dentition. What is the patient population like at your favorite school?

And one of the beautiful things about our program is that because the patient is ours, we get to say whether or not we want to do the case or hand it off. There is no ortho resident breathing down our necks waiting for a particularly juicy case to come along to steal away from us. If we choose to keep the case, then our specialty faculty will work with us 1-on-1 in the specialty clinic and help us do even the most difficult molar endo or impacted bony third extraction. In the entire state of Arizona there is only one small ortho residency at ASDOH and one small OMFS program at our school. We get to do a ton of procedures that students at other schools have to feed to their specialty students and residents.

Going back to the subject of implants, we are guaranteed placement of 4 dental implants at the very least. That's the minimum. Students who want to are placing WAY more. I know a female grad last year who placed 25 by herself from start to finish, and assisted with placement of 40+ more. She had lost count and had to look back at her charts to tell me what she'd done. She said other people in the class had done more. I have multiple all-on-four cases setup for next year when I go over to the clinic. How many schools are allowing pre-doctoral students to place all-on-fours from start to finish? Is Creighton doing that?

Lots of interviewees come through our program and get confused when they are told we are the only school that does this or that. We are the only school allowing pre-doctoral students to do their own all-on-four prosthetic cases as far as I know, and that is the claim our school makes. No other school has the facilities or trains their pre-doctoral students to do so. If you guys know of another school where pre-doctoral students are doing their own CBCT, 3D printed surgical guides, osteotomy, quadruple implant placement with gingival and bone grafting, and then placing an all-on-four system, please tell me about it because I would love to look into that program further. How many schools even have one CBCT? We have multiple!

Our dental clinic is the most productive in the US. Years ago it was UOP, now it's us. We put out more CAD/CAM dentistry than anywhere on Earth. Where some schools are averaging 5-6 crown placements, our school is averaging over 40. Last year I assisted a D4 who placed NINE lithium disilicate crowns in the same patient during one clinic day. Not a single dentist I shadowed ever placed that many in a single day on the same patient! The next time I rotated, her D3 partner was placing SIX CAD/CAM crowns (lithium disilicate and Zirconia with shading) in a patient. How many CAD/CAM crowns are being done at other schools? How many Cerec, E4D, and Trios scanners / mills do other schools actually have for their pre-doctoral students? Oh right, many schools are still doing PFM... Because that's definitely the future. 🙄

How many schools are allowing pre-doctoral students to treatment plan ortho cases, place brackets, and to do their own Invisalign cases? How many schools will allow you to see 8+ patients per clinic day? Does Temple even have the capacity to allow students to see that many patients? Most schools see 2-3 IF you can even get the chair time. How many schools are using hard and soft tissue lasers in their clinic? How many schools are actively encouraging their pre-doctoral students to get their PALS and ACLS certifications for advanced sedation?

We have opportunities to go to Tonga, Samoa, and Guatemala, which many of us do to beef up our endo experience. If there is one area that our clinic may be lacking, it is endo cases. Some students will do a bunch of them, but for the most part, we do mission trips to get more endo experience.

Is our school expensive? Yes it is when compared to state programs. But when you compare us to private schools, not so much. All private schools are expensive.

And before anyone assumes that I didn't have other options, I was accepted to six programs. I had no state option, and given what I learned about MWU-AZ determined that this was the best way to spend way too much money for a degree.

If I am the patient who needs to do bony third molar extraction, I am not gonna let dental students do it, cuz they probably cannot avoid nerve damages. That’s why they have to have omfs do it. No offense. I just feel like it’s not very a very good idea to make d-students think they can do anything even though they can’t. As a future dentist, you need to know what your limits are and don’t risk doing things that you are not competent at. You need to know when to refer those patients out instead of “trying”.

 

[Cello]

For the tuition+fees, it’s totally incorrect for temple. As an oos, the tuition is $62898 and fees are around $5000 on avg for each year. As you combine this two, it’s still a lot less expensive than the tuition at MWU, over $74000 and the fee is $13000. In addition, MWU increases their tuition and fees at the rate of 4%-7% annually. I calculated with the lowest rate 4%, it will come up to 380k for four years, whereas temple doesn’t increase their tuition and fees. Therefore, 4-year tuition and fees for temple as an oos is around 270k. Maybe Philly is a little bit more expensive to live but even after adding living expense, it’ll be almost 100k cheaper than mwu. I am not buying three or four implant training for extra 100k.

Not really. I took the numbers straight from the horse's mouth: Cost & Financial Aid | Temple University - Maurice H. Kornberg School of Dentistry

The numbers I compiled were from last year, so actually what I posted in this thread is lower than this year's tuition + fees for Temple (c/o 2020), where the numbers for MWU-AZ are from this year's class of 2021:

Total Expense PA = $88,746 + $91,472 + $89,584 + $83,988 = $353,790
Less Room and Board = $353,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $287,830
Total Expense - Non PA = $95,948 + $98,674 + $96,786 + $91,190 = $382,598
Less Room and Board = $382,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $316,638

The annual rate of tuition increase is 4-7% for all dental schools across the board. Temple is not immune to raising their rates annually, all schools do it. Last year MWU-AZ projected a 5% increase and actually saw a 4.7% increase. It is impossible for schools to calculate what their actual cost increases will be from year to year, so none of them show you the tuition you will be paying over the duration of your education.

Now throw in the cost of living difference for Philadelphia compared to Glendale, AZ. You'll see that Temple really isn't all that much cheaper, if at all...

If I am the patient who needs to do bony third molar extraction, I am not gonna let dental students do it, cuz they probably cannot avoid nerve damages. That’s why they have to have omfs do it. No offense. I just feel like it’s not very a very good idea to make d-students think they can do anything even though they can’t. As a future dentist, you need to know what your limits are and don’t risk doing things that you are not competent at. You need to know when to refer those patients out instead of “trying”.

An extraction of that nature is typically performed with an oral surgeon in our advanced specialty clinic. If there is a risk of severing a nerve or artery, the surgeon is there to prevent that. You will never eliminate the risk entirely, not even when performing the procedure with OMFS. If the risk was significantly higher for dental students in our clinic under supervision, you can bet our school wouldn't be able to afford the malpractice insurance.

Edited: Fixed the tuition costs after another poster pointed out that I added instrument fees redundantly.

 

[Cello]

Cello, thanks for the detailed response regarding your school, your school definitely sounds like it prepares the students well clinically to go out and practice straight out of school. Do you know how many students each year apply for GPR/AEGD's or do the majority feel prepared enough to go straight into private practice?

Our school is one of the most transparent schools out there. They put literally everything online in PDFs and webpages. The number of students going into AEGD in 2016 was 11 from a class of 140 students. Dental Medicine in Glendale, AZ | Midwestern University

3 went into endo, 5 into peds, 4 into ortho, 2 into OMFS, 1 into oral medicine, 14 into military, and 98 went into private practice.

To more fully answer your question, most students at our school feel very prepared to enter practice immediately. Our admin designed our curriculum to be a 3 year program like UOP (and eventually Roseman). They kept the 4th year as a purely clinical year for what they consider a built-in residency. Students just practice getting faster and better at procedures. After our 3rd year we have completed all of the requirements to be general dentists and met or exceeded the standards in place at many dental schools in the nation.

 

[jttzz112]

Not really. I took the numbers straight from the horse's mouth: Cost & Financial Aid | Temple University - Maurice H. Kornberg School of Dentistry

The numbers I compiled were from last year, so actually what I posted in this thread is lower than this year's tuition + fees for Temple (c/o 2020), where the numbers for MWU-AZ are from this year's class of 2021:

Total Expense PA = $88,746 + $91,472 + $89,584 + $83,988 = $353,790
Less Room and Board = $353,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $287,830
Plus Current Instrument Fees = $287,830 + $7,440 + $5,764 + $4,120 + $4,500 = $309,654
Total Expense - Non PA = $95,948 + $98,674 + $96,786 + $91,190 = $382,598
Less Room and Board = $382,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $316,638
Plus Current Instrument Fees = $316,638 + $7,440 + $5,764 + $4,120 + $4,500 = $338,462

The annual rate of tuition increase is 4-7% for all dental schools across the board. Temple is not immune to raising their rates annually, all schools do it. Last year MWU-AZ projected a 5% increase and actually saw a 4.7% increase. It is impossible for schools to calculate what their actual cost increases will be from year to year, so none of them show you the tuition you will be paying over the duration of your education.

Now throw in the cost of living difference for Philadelphia compared to Glendale, AZ. You'll see that Temple really isn't all that much cheaper, if at all...




An extraction of that nature is typically performed with an oral surgeon in our advanced specialty clinic. If there is a risk of severing a nerve or artery, the surgeon is there to prevent that. You will never eliminate the risk entirely, not even when performing the procedure with OMFS. If the risk was significantly higher for dental students in our clinic under supervision, you can bet our school wouldn't be able to afford the malpractice insurance.

https://www.midwestern.edu/Document...orms/2017-18 AZ/Dental _ AZ 1718 newfinal.pdf

Your school websites calculated 500k in total COA. 160k is a loooooooooot of money.

Sidenote, HOLY CRAP 500k!?>?!!?!?!>!>!>!!>!?!?!

 

[KK Lin]

Not really. I took the numbers straight from the horse's mouth: Cost & Financial Aid | Temple University - Maurice H. Kornberg School of Dentistry

The numbers I compiled were from last year, so actually what I posted in this thread is lower than this year's tuition + fees for Temple (c/o 2020), where the numbers for MWU-AZ are from this year's class of 2021:

Total Expense PA = $88,746 + $91,472 + $89,584 + $83,988 = $353,790
Less Room and Board = $353,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $287,830
Plus Current Instrument Fees = $287,830 + $7,440 + $5,764 + $4,120 + $4,500 = $309,654
Total Expense - Non PA = $95,948 + $98,674 + $96,786 + $91,190 = $382,598
Less Room and Board = $382,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $316,638
Plus Current Instrument Fees = $316,638 + $7,440 + $5,764 + $4,120 + $4,500 = $338,462

The annual rate of tuition increase is 4-7% for all dental schools across the board. Temple is not immune to raising their rates annually, all schools do it. Last year MWU-AZ projected a 5% increase and actually saw a 4.7% increase. It is impossible for schools to calculate what their actual cost increases will be from year to year, so none of them show you the tuition you will be paying over the duration of your education.

Now throw in the cost of living difference for Philadelphia compared to Glendale, AZ. You'll see that Temple really isn't all that much cheaper, if at all...




An extraction of that nature is typically performed with an oral surgeon in our advanced specialty clinic. If there is a risk of severing a nerve or artery, the surgeon is there to prevent that. You will never eliminate the risk entirely, not even when performing the procedure with OMFS. If the risk was significantly higher for dental students in our clinic under supervision, you can bet our school wouldn't be able to afford the malpractice insurance.

Let’s just make the calculation easier, just tuition + instrument fees: non-PA: 62898 X 4 + 7440 +5764+4120+4500=273416. I don’t understand how you get that 330k number. It’s significantly less than MWU. And I have asked Temple students about if their tuition and fees are subject to the 4%-7% change. They said no. It’s the same. Maybe 1k more after two or three years. However, mwuaz really increases a lot. Not every dental school in this country is subject to 4%-7% increase in tuition and fees annually. I would say most private schools and few public schools do, not all of them. Don’t be allures by the marketing dept of mwu.

 

[Cello]

https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2017-18 AZ/Dental _ AZ 1718 newfinal.pdf

Your school websites calculated 500k in total COA. 160k is a loooooooooot of money.

Sidenote, HOLY CRAP 500k!?>?!!?!?!>!>!>!!>!?!?!

Depending on which calculation they use, the total is different. Notice that Midwestern estimates living expenses on campus and off campus? Notice that their cost of living is somehow the same as Philadelphia? Can you really find rent for a decent place in Philly at $10,000 per year? That seems unlikely... The cost estimates for living in Glendale at MWU are right on.

That said, Temple's cost total cost for Non PA comes in at $404,422. That isn't all that much cheaper than $462,632 at MWU. Considering the cost of living disparity between Glendale, AZ and Philly, I would still bet that you come out without much difference in the end.

 

[Cello]

Let’s just make the calculation easier, just tuition + instrument fees: non-PA: 62898 X 4 + 7440 +5764+4120+4500=273416. I don’t understand how you get that 330k number. It’s significantly less than MWU. And I have asked Temple students about if their tuition and fees are subject to the 4%-7% change. They said no. It’s the same. Maybe 1k more after two or three years. However, mwuaz really increases a lot. Not every dental school in this country is subject to 4%-7% increase in tuition and fees annually. I would say most private schools and few public schools do, not all of them. Don’t be allures by the marketing dept of mwu.

If schools are not increasing their tuition rates, then why is tuition increasing? Travis over at Student Loan Planner has a great article educating pre-dents about published tuition rates vs. actual tuition rates: https://www.studentloanplanner.com/cost-estimates-of-dental-school/

He uses Tufts in that example. Dental schools are not going to operate at a loss, and you do realize that inflation is a continuous process. Schools have to adjust their tuition to keep pace with inflation, technology, salaries, decreases in government funding, etc.

"Dental schools should show the expected four year cost of attendance and take into account probable 5% tuition and fee increases per year and factor in inflation into the cost of living. Tufts lists the cost of tuition at $70,712 each year. That’s totally wrong. Tufts officials KNOW that they will not be leaving tuition alone for an entire four year period, as do the other dental schools that list their expected cost this way."

 

[KK Lin]

Depending on which calculation they use, the total is different. Notice that Midwestern estimates living expenses on campus and off campus? Notice that their cost of living is somehow the same as Philadelphia? Can you really find rent for a decent place in Philly at $10,000 per year? That seems unlikely... The cost estimates for living in Glendale at MWU are right on.

That said, Temple's cost total cost for Non PA comes in at $404,422. That isn't all that much cheaper than $462,632 at MWU. Considering the cost of living disparity between Glendale, AZ and Philly, I would still be that you come out without much difference in the end.

No, is easy to find a decent place to live with around 10k rent per year. A 2b2b apt costs around 1.8-2k at Roxborough. The coa listed on temple website is very representative. I don’t think you can finish your four years at MWU with 460k with that annual increase in tuition and fees. At least, 490k.

 

[Cello]

Have a look at this thread, where other SDN members calculated the ACTUAL cost of attending various schools with interest and expected rises in tuition over time of attendance:

The Most Ridiculously Expensive Dental Schools Thread

They calculated Temple at $428,270
Midwestern was at: $474,847

Interestingly, they came up with the exact number that our accounting department did during orientation week.

 

[Cello]

No, is easy to find a decent place to live with around 10k rent per year. A 2b2b apt costs around 1.8-2k at Roxborough. The coa listed on temple website is very representative. I don’t think you can finish your four years at MWU with 460k with that annual increase in tuition and fees. At least, 490k.

A 2 bedroom 2 bath apartment in Glendale is $900...

Five guys in my class share a 5,000 sq ft 5 home that is 5 minutes from school walking, costs $3,000 per month, and they each pay only $600 for it.

 

[KK Lin]

If schools are not increasing their tuition rates, then why is tuition increasing? Travis over at Student Loan Planner has a great article educating pre-dents about published tuition rates vs. actual tuition rates: https://www.studentloanplanner.com/cost-estimates-of-dental-school/

He uses Tufts in that example. Dental schools are not going to operate at a loss, and you do realize that inflation is a continuous process. Schools have to adjust their tuition to keep pace with inflation, technology, salaries, decreases in government funding, etc.

"Dental schools should show the expected four year cost of attendance and take into account probable 5% tuition and fee increases per year and factor in inflation into the cost of living. Tufts lists the cost of tuition at $70,712 each year. That’s totally wrong. Tufts officials KNOW that they will not be leaving tuition alone for an entire four year period, as do the other dental schools that list their expected cost this way."

As I said, most private schools and a few public schools do. Not “EVERY SCHOOL”. The tuition at temple this year is the same as last year. If you doubt, grab a Temple student and ask them. I have talked to at least three of them, none of them said the tuition increase significantly, maybe 1k after two years or three years. Private schools increase a lot because they don’t get enough funding from the state, and they keep buying lots of “FANCY” stuff.

 

[Cello]

As I said, most private schools and a few public schools do. Not “EVERY SCHOOL”. The tuition at temple this year is the same as last year. If you doubt, grab a Temple student and ask them. I have talked to at least three of them, none of them said the tuition increase significantly, maybe 1k after two years or three years. Private schools increase a lot because they don’t get enough funding from the state, and they keep buying lots of “FANCY” stuff.

Either provide me proof that they do not other than "some people I talked to told me so" or I am simply going to ignore your claim. Dental schools don't operate at a loss or they close. Period.

 

[KK Lin]

A 2 bedroom 2 bath apartment in Glendale is $900...

Five guys in my class share a 5,000 sq ft 5 home that is 5 minutes from school walking, costs $3,000 per month, and they each pay only $600 for it.

That’s why I said the coa if temple is very representative. You pay 11k for rent and then 5000 for food. But the problem with mwu is the lower rent cannot make up for the significant increase in tuition and fees.

 

[KK Lin]

Either provide me proof that they do not other than "some people I talked to told me so" or I am simply going to ignore your claim. Dental schools don't operate at a loss or they close. Period.

Well. If you don’t believe it, call temple. It’s simple.

 

[Cello]

That’s why I said the coa if temple is very representative. You pay 11k for rent and then 5000 for food. But the problem with mwu is the lower rent cannot make up for the significant increase in tuition and fees.

Yes it can...

Have a look at this thread, where other SDN members calculated the ACTUAL cost of attending various schools with interest and expected rises in tuition over time of attendance:

The Most Ridiculously Expensive Dental Schools Thread

They calculated Temple at $428,270
Midwestern was at: $474,847

Interestingly, they came up with the exact number that our accounting department did during orientation week.

 

[Cello]

Well. If you don’t believe it, call temple. It’s simple.

The burden of proof really isn't on me. I know that ADEA put out the 4-7% increase for ALL dental schools. I know that I have calculated the tuition costs for almost every school in the nation and at one time went over all of their financial policies. I really don't care what a random person on a message board has to say. Everything I have provided is with evidence. What you have said here is anecdotal hearsay.

 

[KK Lin]

The burden of proof really isn't on me. I am in dental school, and I did the research when I was deciding where to go. I know that ADEA put out the 4-7% for ALL dental schools. I really don't care what a random person on a message board has to say. Everything I have provided is with evidence. What you have said here is anecdotal hearsay.

The evidence is, mwu projected their coa at 510k and temple 380k. Period.

 

[Cello]

The evidence is, mwu projected their coa at 510k and temple 380k. Period.

Another empty claim. Where is the $380k coming from? I just gave you the actual numbers from Temple and from MWU. You ignored them and made up your own. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who bends the truth.

 

[Cello]

This is what it looks like when you actually prove your point:

Not really. I took the numbers straight from the horse's mouth: Cost & Financial Aid | Temple University - Maurice H. Kornberg School of Dentistry

The numbers I compiled were from last year, so actually what I posted in this thread is lower than this year's tuition + fees for Temple (c/o 2020), where the numbers for MWU-AZ are from this year's class of 2021:

Total Expense PA = $88,746 + $91,472 + $89,584 + $83,988 = $353,790
Less Room and Board = $353,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $287,830
Total Expense - Non PA = $95,948 + $98,674 + $96,786 + $91,190 = $382,598
Less Room and Board = $382,790 - $10,000 - $12,000 - $12,000 - $9,000 - $5,400 - $6,180 - $6,180 - $5,200 = $316,638

The annual rate of tuition increase is 4-7% for all dental schools across the board. Temple is not immune to raising their rates annually, all schools do it. Last year MWU-AZ projected a 5% increase and actually saw a 4.7% increase. It is impossible for schools to calculate what their actual cost increases will be from year to year, so none of them show you the tuition you will be paying over the duration of your education.

Now throw in the cost of living difference for Philadelphia compared to Glendale, AZ. You'll see that Temple really isn't all that much cheaper, if at all...

 

[KK Lin]

Another empty claim. Where is the $380k coming from? I just gave you the actual numbers from Temple and from MWU. You ignored them and made up your own. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who bends the truth.

98748+98674+96786+91190=382698. Period. That’s the official number from official site. Not your calculation.

 

[KK Lin]

And just to clarify one more thing, the total expense listed on Temple website, for example, 95948 for first year, the instrument cost is already included. Not like cello’s calculation which is additional.

 

[KK Lin]

Those instrument fees are included in the total expense. If you don’t believe it, add them up together and see what you get.

 

[KK Lin]

Looks like my words are correct lol. No need to delete it. Everyone can see the projected coa of each school. If you feel u r happy at mwu and u r willing to pay for it, then go for it. I am not going there because my parents are paying for my dental school and I don’t want to them to pay extra 100k. Both mwu and temple are great in clinical training and you won’t go wrong with each. MWU have great facilities and beautiful clinic. A great school. If you can justify extra 100k for the facility, go for it!

 

[Cello]

You are right, they already calculated the instrument fees into their total cost.

Note that this link from earlier is way off: https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2017-18 AZ/Dental _ AZ 1718 newfinal.pdf

Ask yourself, how is it possible that the difference between thrify and parent is only $4,000 when the difference in cost of living between the two was calculated to be $31,000?

Go from the actual tuition page, like we did with Temple:

You get $355,939 in total tuition + fees for Midwestern. (Glendale Tuition and Fees)
You get $316,638 in total tuition + fees for Temple. (Cost & Financial Aid | Temple University - Maurice H. Kornberg School of Dentistry)

Take cost of living out of it. Glendale will win that contest anyway.

 

[Jueves]

 

[KK Lin]

You are right, they already calculated the instrument fees into their total cost.

Note that this link from earlier is way off: https://www.midwestern.edu/Documents/Financial Aid documents/COA Forms/2017-18 AZ/Dental _ AZ 1718 newfinal.pdf

Ask yourself, how is it possible that the difference between thrify and parent is only $4,000 when the difference in cost of living between the two was calculated to be $31,000?

Go from the actual tuition page, like we did with Temple:

You get $355,939 in total tuition + fees for Midwestern. (Glendale Tuition and Fees)
You get $338,652 in total tuition + fees for Temple. (Cost & Financial Aid | Temple University - Maurice H. Kornberg School of Dentistry)

Take cost of living out of it. Glendale will win that contest anyway.

Ok, mwu wins. Even I add 20k on the living cost, it’s still 400k, at most 420k. Mwu coa will be 510k according to the admission office because of the tuition increase. I am not gonna go cuz I don’t have half million even mwu wins. I have to be considerate for my sister in a private high school, those money I save can cover some of the cost for her. Not gonna argue anymore.

 

[jttzz112]

Lol 400k, 500k.... Im over here counting blessings tuition only 40k per year at my state school.

 

[887194]

According to the ADEA offical guide (2017-2018) The total cost of tuition + Fees, books, instruments, etc for MWU-AZ is $344,339. The total cost for Temple is $286,830. I know MWU-AZ raises their tuition by 4-7% as someone has mentioned and thus its expected to be higher at this point. Temple increases their tuition cost quite marginally based on what i seen (I interviewed at both schools). The cost of living is quite comparable in both cities (for some reason MWU-AZ cost of living is listed as 30k for years 3 & 4- not sure why). Without interest and based off numbers from a year ago the difference is $57,509 assuming non-resident tuition. Resident COA (w/o living expenses) is $245,808. On a side note Temple gave an estimate tuition cost of during my interview as $62,898/year for OOS thus confirming that their tuition barely increases year to year compared to 4-7% of MWU-AZ.

 

[887194]

Random question, but why does MWU increase tuition by 4% a year? Do all schools do this?

Tuition increases in all schools historically, the number just varies between schools.

 

[KK Lin]

According to the ADEA offical guide (2017-2018) The total cost of tuition + Fees, books, instruments, etc for MWU-AZ is $344,339. The total cost for Temple is $286,830. I know MWU-AZ raises their tuition by 4-7% as someone has mentioned and thus its expected to be higher at this point. Temple increases their tuition cost quite marginally based on what i seen (I interviewed at both schools). The cost of living is quite comparable in both cities (for some reason MWU-AZ cost of living is listed as 30k for years 3 & 4- not sure why). Without interest and based off numbers from a year ago the difference is $57,509 assuming non-resident tuition. Resident COA (w/o living expenses) is $245,808. On a side note Temple gave an estimate tuition cost of during my interview as $62,898/year for OOS thus confirming that their tuition barely increases year to year compared to 4-7% of MWU-AZ.

Thanks for confirming what I said. The high coa for mwu comes from the significant increase in tuition and instrument fees. Their instrument fee is now over 13k which is insane. And it will increase every year...

 

[Cello]

The tuition rates on both schools' websites are going to be more reliable than a 2nd hand account from the ADEA guidebook. My tuition these last two years matched exactly what MWU put on its tuition page.

 

[Likkriue]

Since OP said shes from philly, im assuming her family is in philly, thus it would be nice to be closer to home than all the way out in the midwest.
Dental school is a bit different form undergrad, the days go by fast. All the courses feel like they are being rushed and frankly, there just doesnt seem to be much time. There will be days you want to see your family. Would you rather be 1000 mils away from them or just an hour ride away from meeting with friends and family? Thats something to heavily consider. Driving/taking flights back and forth for every big holiday will drain your pockets faster than whatever you save living in Glendale.

Next, all dental schools have tuition hikes and Temple is no different. @KK Lin For example in 2016-2017 the CoA for temple OOS is about 60k and it is about 62.8k now. An increase of 2.8k, a 4.6% increase. Thats straight off their website and pdfs. The thing is, compare this to MWU-AZ, 2016-2017 was 71k, now its 74k, a tuition increase of about 3k, which is literally the same tuition increase.

I don't believe in all the bogus about one school being more advanced than another. "We do this, they do that" blah blah blah, Im ignoring that. The tuition based off of temples website is 382.5k. For MWU-AZ I dont feel like calculating anything, but im sure from previous threads its only about 50k more not 100k like people are saying. Temple is not a true IS university.
Now how long does 50k go? With 7% interest over 4 years that is probably closer to 60k. You need to generate $90k worth of income to put $60k into you pocket. Thats something people forget about, we get taxed for what we earn. Is it worth 90k more, I would not.

 

[Cello]

Since OP said shes from philly, im assuming her family is in philly, thus it would be nice to be closer to home than all the way out in the midwest.
Dental school is a bit different form undergrad, the days go by fast. All the courses feel like they are being rushed and frankly, there just doesnt seem to be much time. There will be days you want to see your family. Would you rather be 1000 mils away from them or just an hour ride away from meeting with friends and family? Thats something to heavily consider. Driving/taking flights back and forth for every big holiday will drain your pockets faster than whatever you save living in Glendale.

Yes, people severely underestimate the toll that distance can take on them. Some of my classmates have seen their marriages fall apart, lost their fiancees, or been a bit depressed. If you can stay near your family AND pay less for school, then that would be a hard thing to turn down.

I don't believe in all the bogus about one school being more advanced than another. "We do this, they do that" blah blah blah, Im ignoring that. The tuition based off of temples website is 382.5k. For MWU-AZ I dont feel like calculating anything, but im sure from previous threads its only about 50k more not 100k like people are saying. Temple is not a true IS university.
Now how long does 50k go? With 7% interest over 4 years that is probably closer to 60k. You need to generate $90k worth of income to put $60k into you pocket. Thats something people forget about, we get taxed for what we earn. Is it worth 90k more, I would not.

Something else people don't think about, and probably can't anticipate is what kind of dentist they plan to be. Do you want to do molar endo? Do you want to do 3rd extractions? Do you want to work with lasers, or own a Cerec? Not planning to do implants? If you just want to do bread-and-butter dentistry and couldn't care less about all of the fancy stuff that more expensive private schools are offering to be competitive, then go to the cheapest school.

Also, as I said before, my situation was unique as I had no state option. I was forced to choose between the best of all private or OOS options. My advice to anyone who can pay $50k per year and leave school with under $250k in total student loans would be to go there. But you have to be careful and actually look at tuition + fees for the schools you consider, because sometimes they aren't as big a difference as they appear to be at first glance.

 

[Likkriue]

Yes, people severely underestimate the toll that distance can take on them. Some of my classmates have seen their marriages fall apart, lost their fiancees, or been a bit depressed. If you can stay near your family AND pay less for school, then that would be a hard thing to turn down.



Something else people don't think about, and probably can't anticipate is what kind of dentist they plan to be. Do you want to do molar endo? Do you want to do 3rd extractions? Do you want to work with lasers, or own a Cerec? Not planning to do implants? If you just want to do bread-and-butter dentistry and couldn't care less about all of the fancy stuff that more expensive private schools are offering to be competitive, then go to the cheapest school.

Also, as I said before, my situation was unique as I had no state option. I was forced to choose between the best of all private or OOS options. My advice to anyone who can pay $50k per year and leave school with under $250k in total student loans would be to go there. But you have to be careful and actually look at tuition + fees for the schools you consider, because sometimes they aren't as big a difference as they appear to be at first glance.

Yeah for sure, there are several schools who don't update their website for tuition fees till the school year starts. Not going to name them, but I know what they are doing. Also plenty that drastically underestimate living costs.

 

[Combine33]

Our school is one of the most transparent schools out there. They put literally everything online in PDFs and webpages. The number of students going into AEGD in 2016 was 11 from a class of 140 students. Dental Medicine in Glendale, AZ | Midwestern University

3 went into endo, 5 into peds, 4 into ortho, 2 into OMFS, 1 into oral medicine, 14 into military, and 98 went into private practice.

To more fully answer your question, most students at our school feel very prepared to enter practice immediately. Our admin designed our curriculum to be a 3 year program like UOP (and eventually Roseman). They kept the 4th year as a purely clinical year for what they consider a built-in residency. Students just practice getting faster and better at procedures. After our 3rd year we have completed all of the requirements to be general dentists and met or exceeded the standards in place at many dental schools in the nation.

What are the clinical requirements like? Competency exams as well as rotations required to graduate? Are they divided through DS3/4 or you have to achieve X of something(s) though 3/4?

 

[KK Lin]

Since OP said shes from philly, im assuming her family is in philly, thus it would be nice to be closer to home than all the way out in the midwest.
Dental school is a bit different form undergrad, the days go by fast. All the courses feel like they are being rushed and frankly, there just doesnt seem to be much time. There will be days you want to see your family. Would you rather be 1000 mils away from them or just an hour ride away from meeting with friends and family? Thats something to heavily consider. Driving/taking flights back and forth for every big holiday will drain your pockets faster than whatever you save living in Glendale.

Next, all dental schools have tuition hikes and Temple is no different. @KK Lin For example in 2016-2017 the CoA for temple OOS is about 60k and it is about 62.8k now. An increase of 2.8k, a 4.6% increase. Thats straight off their website and pdfs. The thing is, compare this to MWU-AZ, 2016-2017 was 71k, now its 74k, a tuition increase of about 3k, which is literally the same tuition increase.

I don't believe in all the bogus about one school being more advanced than another. "We do this, they do that" blah blah blah, Im ignoring that. The tuition based off of temples website is 382.5k. For MWU-AZ I dont feel like calculating anything, but im sure from previous threads its only about 50k more not 100k like people are saying. Temple is not a true IS university.
Now how long does 50k go? With 7% interest over 4 years that is probably closer to 60k. You need to generate $90k worth of income to put $60k into you pocket. Thats something people forget about, we get taxed for what we earn. Is it worth 90k more, I would not.

You have to consider the significant instrument fees (already 13k) increase at 4%-7%, whereas temple barely change, still around 5k-7k depends on the grade. Actually temple did not increase 2.8k in tuition in one year, students said they were about the same. Not 60k last year and 62.8k this year. You can look back the oos tuition 5 years ago, that was 58k. So around 1k increase every year maybe. Definitely not 4.6%. And the instrument fees are the same. At MWU, tuition + fees already over 87k and this 87k will increase 4%-7% ever year, so it’s gonna be a lot. I am not planing to live with other ppl since the 1b1b apt in Philly is around 1k per month, only 250 more compared with mwuaz. So I can still save at least 80k if I go to Temple.