Is my friend right?

[Fractalcube]

So, I didn't do so well as an undergrad, completely non-science major (communications). Decided on med school my senior year and did really well in a postbac program. My aacomas sGPA is now 3.8
and my cGPA is still only 3.3.
I self-studied for the mcat and got a 26, even breakdown.
I was really excited to apply to some well-established DO schools like PCOM, but my friend tells me I don't stand a chance because my below average mcat only demonstrates that my 3.8 science GPA is "all fluff" so to speak. Honestly, I worked really hard to achieve such good grades, and I feel that it is independent of my below par mcat score. I've been reading the SDN threads and it seems the newer, less established schools would be a safer bet. I'm kind of torn on where exactly I should be applying and what my expectations should be. For all those of you out there who know more about this process than I do, I would really appreciate your feedback.


Also, I have plenty of volunteering/EC's/shadowing

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[darklabel]

So, I didn't do so well as an undergrad, completely non-science major (communications). Decided on med school my senior year and did really well in a postbac program. My aacomas sGPA is now 3.8
and my cGPA is still only 3.3.
I self-studied for the mcat and got a 26, even breakdown.
I was really excited to apply to some well-established DO schools like PCOM, but my friend tells me I don't stand a chance because my below average mcat only demonstrates that my 3.8 science GPA is "all fluff" so to speak. Honestly, I worked really hard to achieve such good grades, and I feel that it is independent of my below par mcat score. I've been reading the SDN threads and it seems the newer, less established schools would be a safer bet. I'm kind of torn on where exactly I should be applying and what my expectations should be. For all those of you out there who know more about this process then I do, I would really appreciate your feedback.


Also, I have plenty of volunteering/EC's/shadowing

Your "friend" sounds like a gunner.

You should be fine, especially if your ECs are good.

 

[IslandStyle808]

The average MCAT score for DO schools is 26 so I would say just ignore your friend.

 

[pattr]

Your "friend" sounds like a gunner.

You should be fine, especially if your ECs are good.

"friend."

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Your friend is wrong.

 

[coolingglasses]

Your friend is a dork.

 

[hemlocktree]

You are fine, don't listen

 

[A7X]

Don't listen to your friend

 

[ORU2Medicine]

I always love seeing threads that are titled like this, haha.

 

[Fractalcube]

Why? What is so funny about this?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Just remember it's about the overall application, not just one aspect. Your friend is totally wrong. Schools look to have a well rounded class. If you don't apply you will never know. Unless your friend is sitting on the admissions committee, they don't know jack.

 

[Goro]

Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about; 26 is fine, and it's not that big of a discrepancy from your GPA. 23 would be. There's no such thing a 'fluff" science degree unless it's in Ecology, or all research related.

So quit fussing and start applying broadly to DO programs.

So, I didn't do so well as an undergrad, completely non-science major (communications). Decided on med school my senior year and did really well in a postbac program. My aacomas sGPA is now 3.8
and my cGPA is still only 3.3.
I self-studied for the mcat and got a 26, even breakdown.
I was really excited to apply to some well-established DO schools like PCOM, but my friend tells me I don't stand a chance because my below average mcat only demonstrates that my 3.8 science GPA is "all fluff" so to speak. Honestly, I worked really hard to achieve such good grades, and I feel that it is independent of my below par mcat score. I've been reading the SDN threads and it seems the newer, less established schools would be a safer bet. I'm kind of torn on where exactly I should be applying and what my expectations should be. For all those of you out there who know more about this process than I do, I would really appreciate your feedback.


Also, I have plenty of volunteering/EC's/shadowing

 

[hallowmann]

So, I didn't do so well as an undergrad, completely non-science major (communications). Decided on med school my senior year and did really well in a postbac program. My aacomas sGPA is now 3.8
and my cGPA is still only 3.3.
I self-studied for the mcat and got a 26, even breakdown.
I was really excited to apply to some well-established DO schools like PCOM, but my friend tells me I don't stand a chance because my below average mcat only demonstrates that my 3.8 science GPA is "all fluff" so to speak. Honestly, I worked really hard to achieve such good grades, and I feel that it is independent of my below par mcat score. I've been reading the SDN threads and it seems the newer, less established schools would be a safer bet. I'm kind of torn on where exactly I should be applying and what my expectations should be. For all those of you out there who know more about this process than I do, I would really appreciate your feedback.


Also, I have plenty of volunteering/EC's/shadowing

Apply wherever you want. Throw in some newer schools you're interested in as well as some "safeties", but if your dream is a school like PCOM, apply, its worth the extra $84 to find out if you could get in. One thing's for sure, you can never get in at a school you don't apply to. Apply early and broadly and let the good times role.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Your friend is ridiculous. You would definitely be in a good range for PCOM. I've seen people with a 3.0 have 34+ MCAT and people with a 3.7 crack only a 25. Your GPA and your MCAT test different skills.

 

[TwinsFan]

I'm going to go against the grain a bit here and say in some cases it probably matters. A 3.8 with a mid 20s MCAT points to grade inflation. Will all schools care, heck no. But some might. However, I'm guessing the only schools that will care typically have students with MCAT scores of around 30 or higher. So in your case I probably wouldn't worry too much.

Some evidence:
There was a thread in the last year or so where LizzyM said something to the effect of "if you have a mid 30s MCAT it means your high gpa is legit" when her school evaluates applicants from universities they are less familiar with.

From this quite a bit can be inferred...

 

[pattr]

I'm going to go against the grain a bit here and say in some cases it probably matters. A 3.8 with a mid 20s MCAT points to grade inflation. Will all schools care, heck no. But some might. However, I'm guessing the only schools that will care typically have students with MCAT scores of around 30 or higher. So in your case I probably wouldn't worry too much.

Some evidence:
There was a thread in the last year or so where LizzyM said something to the effect of "if you have a mid 30s MCAT it means your high gpa is legit" when her school evaluates applicants from universities they are less familiar with.

From this quite a bit can be inferred...

To me, that suggests adcoms are looking more at your undergrad institution rather than your MCAT to verify your GPA is "legit"

 

[hallowmann]

To me, that suggests adcoms are looking more at your undergrad institution rather than your MCAT to verify your GPA is "legit"

I'm skeptical about this. This is contradictory to my experience and the experience of MANY of my pre-med, med student, and physician friends. I highly doubt many, if any schools take into account school rep when determining the legitimacy of certain grades as compared to the MCAT.

There are just too many possible variables. Maybe someone is just a bad standardized test taker, how does their 30 make their 3.8 any less legitimate? Its not like they see someone with a 3.4 and 35, and say, oh, their school must be tough because their GPA doesn't correlate to their MCAT. I highly doubt that's the case.

They are two completely different stats. Sure to some degree they correlate content, but one is more a demonstration of one's test taking and analytical ability, while the other a demonstration of their work ethic and resolve.

Besides, these stats are most important in order to get you an interview. Maybe adcoms will speculate on balamce when they are actually deciding on you for admittance, but at that point it was already up to you to demonstrate many reasons why you should be there.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Its all good OP. I had a great GPA and a lacking MCAT, same as yours at a 26. One application cycle later -18 interviews and acceptances to MD and DO schools. Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[dudeliness]

Just remember it's about the overall application, not just one aspect. Your friend is totally wrong. Schools look to have a well rounded class. If you don't apply you will never know. Unless your friend is sitting on the admissions committee, they don't know jack.

I'll second this. Nobody can ever tell you for sure if you will or won't get into a medical school. If you can do a good job of presenting yourself in your application, that can only help.
Good luck!

 

[redPastel]

The average MCAT score for DO schools is 26 so I would say just ignore your friend.

Correction.
27.5 for matriculants.

 

[hallowmann]

Correction.
27.5 for matriculants.

Correction:
26.85 for mean MCAT of matriculants as of the 2011-2012 cycle (2012-2013 hasn't come out yet and won't for another 6 months). The mean MCAT for applicants was 25.73.

The previous mean (2010-2011 cycle) was 26.51. The mean MCAT for applicants was 25.66.

As you can see, the mean MCAT has been steadily increasing over the years.

Source:
http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Pages/default.aspx

 

[redPastel]

Correction:
26.85 for mean MCAT of matriculants as of the 2011-2012 cycle (2012-2013 hasn't come out yet and won't for another 6 months). The mean MCAT for applicants was 25.73.

The previous mean (2010-2011 cycle) was 26.51. The mean MCAT for applicants was 25.66.

As you can see, the mean MCAT has been steadily increasing over the years.

Source:
http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Pages/default.aspx

Humm...my source says otherwise..discrepancy?

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2010_Applicant_Survey.pdf

"The mean total MCAT score of those respondents who were offered admission to a DOgranting medical school was 27.5; higher than the mean total score of 25.0 for those
respondents who were not admitted. Mean undergraduate GPA was 3.51 for those
applicants who were offered admission to DO-granting medical schools; slightly lower
than the mean GPA (3.57) of respondents who were offered admission to MD-granting
medical schools."

 

[hallowmann]

Humm...my source says otherwise..discrepancy?

http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2010_Applicant_Survey.pdf

"The mean total MCAT score of those respondents who were offered admission to a DOgranting medical school was 27.5; higher than the mean total score of 25.0 for those
respondents who were not admitted. Mean undergraduate GPA was 3.51 for those
applicants who were offered admission to DO-granting medical schools; slightly lower
than the mean GPA (3.57) of respondents who were offered admission to MD-granting
medical schools."

Your score is acceptances, not matriculants. Acceptance stats aren't really helpful, because most people at the high end probably also applied to a lot of MD schools, and end up going to them.

In any case we're talking about pretty close numbers.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Your score is acceptances, not matriculants. Acceptance stats aren't really helpful, because most people at the high end probably also applied to a lot of MD schools, and end up going to them.

In any case we're talking about pretty close numbers.

A lot of people also applied to multiple places leading to students getting multiple acceptances. This means accepted averages will be inflated beyond reality.

 

[hallowmann]

A lot of people also applied to multiple places leading to students getting multiple acceptances. This means accepted averages will be inflated beyond reality.

That is the case a lot of the time if we are talking about overall averages that don't eliminate redundancies, considering that the competitive candidates will likely hold more acceptances, and in turn be counted multiple times.

I think though, that in this case the source redPastel mentioned only counts each individual surveyed as one, as opposed to each of their acceptances.

A lot of times if you look at schools that post "Accepted Student" averages, those don't eliminate redundancies, so they are probably even further inflated.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

That is the case a lot of the time if we are talking about overall averages that don't eliminate redundancies, considering that the competitive candidates will likely hold more acceptances, and in turn be counted multiple times.

I think though, that in this case the source redPastel mentioned only counts each individual surveyed as one, as opposed to each of their acceptances.

Hmm, well then in that case my comment is void. I mentioned that because some schools report accepted averages as high as 28 or 29 and then fall to 27.

 

[Columbia09]

Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about; 26 is fine, and it's not that big of a discrepancy from your GPA. 23 would be. There's no such thing a 'fluff" science degree unless it's in Ecology, or all research related.

So quit fussing and start applying broadly to DO programs.

Really ? Shoot I took two bio electives that were ecology related. Titled the ecology of infectious deseases and physiological ecology. My school has six options for bio majors and I picked the general option because it suits my interets. These classes counted as my ecology requirement and my plant/fungi requirement. Hope I'm not discriminated against

 

[hallowmann]

Really ? Shoot I took two bio electives that were ecology related. Titled the ecology of infectious deseases and physiological ecology. My school has six options for bio majors and I picked the general option because it suits my interets. These classes counted as my ecology requirement and my plant/fungi requirement. Hope I'm not discriminated against

Your whole degree isn't Ecology though, right? I think that's what Goro was talking about. As long as the majority of your courses aren't Ecology (they couldn't be as a pre-med unless you majored in it), then I wouldn't worry.

 

[Urnathok]

A good rule of thumb (at the least) is to listen to data before listening to word of mouth, particularly about a subject like admissions. I also had a friend try to tell me that a 2.9 Chemistry major would be taken over a 4.0 English major every time because the former is "harder," while it would only take a look at a matriculation spreadsheet (or heck, even 95% of admissions pages) to know that to be hogwash.

Point being, don't let random bits of information that get thrown at you 'get to you'. Do your homework. Like everyone's said above, you're fine for just about any DO school you'd want to apply to.

 

[hallowmann]

A good rule of thumb (at the least) is to listen to data before listening to word of mouth, particularly about a subject like admissions. I also had a friend try to tell me that a 2.9 Chemistry major would be taken over a 4.0 English major every time because the former is "harder," while it would only take a look at a matriculation spreadsheet (or heck, even 95% of admissions pages) to know that to be hogwash...

Wow, that's just ridiculous.

 

[IslandStyle808]

that is the case a lot of the time if we are talking about overall averages that don't eliminate redundancies, considering that the competitive candidates will likely hold more acceptances, and in turn be counted multiple times.

I think though, that in this case the source redpastel mentioned only counts each individual surveyed as one, as opposed to each of their acceptances.

A lot of times if you look at schools that post "accepted student" averages, those don't eliminate redundancies, so they are probably even further inflated.

+1

 

[ShyRem]

WAMC. Moving.