Is orgo really neccesay?

[doctorcynical]

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I mean when is the last time you saw a physician use the diels-alder reaction or bust out michael's addition followed by robinson's annulation. Any MD's out there still using this stuff?

 

[Spitting Camel]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
I mean when is the last time you saw a physician use the diels-alder reaction or bust out michael's addition followed by robinson's annulation. Any MD's out there still using this stuff?

If you want to get INTO medical school, then yes. Why must you always be so cynical of everything?!? 😉

 

[Syranope2]

i think one of the reasons that med schools care about orgo is that it is a class that is sort of similar to your med school classes - a lot of information, a lot of memorization, all smushed into a short time. if you can get through orgo, you can make it through your first two years of med school. you're right, though. very few physicians know or care about diels alder

 

[doctorcynical]

Originally posted by Syranope2
i think one of the reasons that med schools care about orgo is that it is a class that is sort of similar to your med school classes - a lot of information, a lot of memorization, all smushed into a short time. if you can get through orgo, you can make it through your first two years of med school. you're right, though. very few physicians know or care about diels alder

Syranope2 how would you know? WTF??? (<--thanks for the slang MDTom). Are you in school now?

 

[Syranope2]

i'm not in med school now. but i have been told by a friend on an adcom that that's the primary reason he considers orgo important. the assumption is if you can do orgo you're more likely to be able to do med school.i have taken orgo, if that's what you're asking. i'm not quite sure why you're pissed off, though.😕

 

[doctorcynical]

not pissed off I just won't legit answers. Thanks for the help though. I am looking for replies only from MD's and med students that are at least third years.

 

[Robz]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
not pissed off I just won't legit answers. Thanks for the help though. I am looking for replies only from MD's and med students that are at least third years.

Then you may want to post in the Allopathic Forum and not the pre-allopathic one.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
I mean when is the last time you saw a physician use the diels-alder reaction or bust out michael's addition followed by robinson's annulation. Any MD's out there still using this stuff?

Uhh, if you want med students to respond to it, first post in allo, and second say so in your post... no need to be an arse about it.

Anyway, orgo forces you to think it new ways about an overwhelming about of material. Its the first real hard course that most people take in college that involves material that is entirely new to them.

So what I am almost positive the med students will say is that that orgo persay is useless. However, the study skills and your ability to handle large volumes of information in a small period of time is important-- something that everyone in medical school will need to know, with the most common analogy being "medical school classes are like trying to get a drink of water out of a fire hydrant"

 

[indo]

the diels-alder reaction is one of the easiest reactions to know. The electrons just fall into place. Also, i think you may have mis-spelled a word in the titled.

 

[doctorcynical]

Way to go indo. You should edit every post. Do you really have that big of issues to point out things like that. I mean seriously. You obviously have OCD.

 

[Anka]

Nah, you don't need orgo. But it's a pretty easy course, so why spend so much time complaining about it?

Anka

 

[doctorcynical]

Thanks Anka. Sorry if it seems like I am complaining. I just wanted an honest answer. I won't try so hard in my orgo class then. I mean seriously... it isn't going to help patients.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
not pissed off I just won't legit answers. Thanks for the help though. I am looking for replies only from MD's and med students that are at least third years.

Damn.....settle down!! If you dont want premeds to answer go to allopathic. Dont be a complete ass about it either. Syaranope made a very good point about orgo. How about you listen to it for a change before completly and RUDELY blowing someone off just b/c they dont meet your standard of being "at least a 3rd year med student". Dont waste our time and go post in allopathic. And learn some manners and respect while you're at it! 😡

 

[indo]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
Way to go indo. You should edit every post. Do you really have that big of issues to point out things like that. I mean seriously. You obviously have OCD.

Why should I edit every post? What makes you think I have OCD?


edit: Oh, i read ya now. Well, tightass, that was a joke because your thread title is mis-spelled but it ultimately doesn't matter. Go study. You sound like you are having a tough time.

 

[doctorcynical]

disenchanted I'm sorry. I'll tone it down.

 

[Disenchanted 1]

😉 cool !! I thought to myself here is the start of a flaming war. pretty cool of you!

 

[Anka]

I was joking. But, really, it's not that bad. Just do lots of problems, and you'll be fine. And as far as "do I really need this," just remember that you'll be asking that question a lot. The future psychiatrist is forced to study renal function, the future CT surgeon to learn thyroid surgery, and so on.

 

[mlw03]

ok, i'm not a med student, but how about this thought: you can't understand biochemistry without basic organic chemistry knowledge, and doctors should know basic biochemistry.

 

[doctorcynical]

I've already take orgo and to be honest it didn't seem to help me in Biochem. Biochem was not too bad of a course. The only orgo stuff is stereochem and hydration reactions. But come on anyone can learn that. Orgo is just another hurdle.

 

[LAZYGUY]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
Orgo is just another hurdle.

You're right! But orgo is only a small hurdle on a path of many....I know exactly what your feeling and trying to say. Good luck!🙂

 

[Blade28]

For the same reason that basic physics, math, lab courses, etc. are required for med school, o-chem helps to test critical thinking, your ability to memorize huge amounts of material, diligence and patience, etc. Of course you will probably never use (nor remember) the material you learned in o-chem. I certainly don't. But the adcoms are trying to see if you're able to function and succeed in these tough, intellectual courses.

In a slightly similar way, all the classes you take in the first two years of med school are very "basic science" heavy with very little clinical correlation (of course there are many exceptions). You just have to learn to apply a lot of your knowledge - as well as your work ethic and self-motivation - to your duties as a third- and fourth-year student. As a third-year, I may not always instantly recall, in their entirety, the Krebs cycle, or the clotting cascade, or the steps of inflammation...but you can be sure you'll be able to focus and apply the most pertinent pieces of information to your patient(s).

 

[Bernardo_11]

I was about to post a response, but Blade28 basically summed it up to a tee. Those basic pre-med courses are not too useful for the information you need to learn, but rather the problem solving skills that developm from them.

In addition, there will be a lot of "required" crap that you will learn in med school and residency that you will probably not ever do when you are in practice. Thing is though now it will be in the back of your head, being somewhat accessable when you have to review the information again as it is pertinent for patient care.

 

[group_theory]

Also, orgo is neccessary to trim down the number of pre-meds

Think about it - how many former pre-meds do you know who decided to quite pre-med because of orgo?

How many people were just contemplating "hmmm ... maybe I can be a doctor" but were stopped by orgo

What if orgo wasn't a premed class? Imagine the sheer size of applicants every year (with the same limited amount of seats)

Anyway, just another point-of-view 🙂

 

[doctorcynical]

Good call Group Theory. Thanks to orgo I won't have to worry about that kid who can't grasp the concept of wolfe-kischner being a surgeon!

 

[DD214_DOC]

It's not like they can't take it over again.

 

[osar92]

My orgo prof. told us that one of the main reasons that med schools require organic chem is that it forces you to think in pictures/images, rather than in just words or equations. This is similar to much of the thinking that we will need to be doing in med school and in clinical settings. Makes sense to me.

 

[relentless11]

Like many have stated, Orgo shows ones ability to handle large amounts of information, and solve problems. Additionally since the first quarter of med school also deals with some form of biochemistry, it helps one to know the basics of organic chemistry.

Personally i find it easier to understand why metabolic pathways work through reaction mechanism rather than memorize each and every molecule formed in the system.

Last but not least, who said that OChem won't be used down the road. One might find that you may need OCHem for some sort of research once you become a doctor.

Really, i have found that one can dislike a class, but really, sometimes those classes are very useful down the road. I disliked calculus, and actually even chemistry in general way back when. Ya know what? I can't seem to get away from those two subject areas regardless of what i've done, and really knowledge of both fields helped me be a better student in the end. Additionally after many classes of both subjects, one starts to like it..haha. Sure i disliked calculus, and chem way back then but hey i'd still take them again despite the fact that they aren't really degree requirements for me anymore.

 

[absolutezero]

post deleted

 

[size_tens]

If it were up to me all pre-meds would have to take orgo and physical chem. Talk about a weed out class...

 

[doctorcynical]

Size_two,
P.Chem is not that hard of a class. It is simple math. Who doesn't understand particles in a box, eigenfunctions, thermodynamics, vibrations etc. Sounds like you are trying to be condescending to the dumb biology kids. Now I agree biology is doesn't require much intelligent but you can't go around thinking P Chem is the end all be all of challenging courses.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
Size_two,
P.Chem is not that hard of a class. It is simple math. Who doesn't understand particles in a box, eigenfunctions, thermodynamics, vibrations etc. Sounds like you are trying to be condescending to the dumb biology kids. Now I agree biology is doesn't require much intelligent but you can't go around thinking P Chem is the end all be all of challenging courses.

then you should have no prob with ochem since pchem is as natural as addition for you.

 

[doctorcynical]

Originally posted by jlee9531
then you should have no prob with ochem since pchem is as natural as addition for you.

I don't know why people think I haven't taken O-Chem. I have a degree in Chemistry.

 

[lazgirl24]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
Size_two,
P.Chem is not that hard of a class. It is simple math. Who doesn't understand particles in a box, eigenfunctions, thermodynamics, vibrations etc. Sounds like you are trying to be condescending to the dumb biology kids. Now I agree biology is doesn't require much intelligent but you can't go around thinking P Chem is the end all be all of challenging courses.

I know a couple of chem majors who are going poorly in bio!!!!

 

[DrWorkNeverDone]

I SO FEEL YOU I DONT SEE THE SENSE IN ORGO EITHER 🙂

Funny that you mention the diel thing though, we just talked about it today 🙂

 

[doctorcynical]

Originally posted by lazgirl24
I know a couple of chem majors who are going poorly in bio!!!!

I agree with you. I made B's in all my upper level Bios. B = Biology. There is no concept to Bio. Only memorization. Aside from genetics which is more Biochem/MolB, learning bird names, bird noises, and memorizing the parts of a cell is not really difficult. In fact, to most chemists we view this "learning style" called memorization as a waste of joules.

 

[lazgirl24]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
I agree with you. I made B's in all my upper level Bios. B = Biology. There is no concept to Bio. Only memorization. Aside from genetics which is more Biochem/MolB, learning bird names, bird noises, and memorizing the parts of a cell is not really difficult. In fact, to most chemists we view this "learning style" called memorization as a waste of joules.

I think you might of picked up the wrong idea. I am a bio major and i totally disagree that bio is all memorization. IT IS NOT!!! Yoe learn a process and you apply it!!! take evolution, for example, you learn the conccept and apply to different situations. I don't know why ppl are saying that bio is all memorization!!! Maybe it depends on your professor, but all the professors at my school teach bio as a concept with lots of critical thinking on test!!!

 

[doctorcynical]

Evolution is conceptual! That is hilarious. If you can apply the entropical perspective on why evolution exists then you understand the concept my friend. All you did was memorize the concept of evolution. You do not truly understand the fundamental forces driving evolution. (You may actually understand it I was just trying to prove a point. It is possible to memorize concepts. It is easy to spot a bio major in a orgo class. They have flash cards and are writing frantically when the professor is talking)

 

[lazgirl24]

none of the bio major i see do it!!!!!

 

[doctorcynical]

perhaps you are right lazygirl. perhaps you are right.

 

[DoctorDoom]

I did poorly in orgo, struggled in biochem, had difficulty with endocrine, and even in surgery residency I struggled with the more complex diabetic transplant patients. You don't need all of orgo, but it is the foundation of other knowledge critical to patient care.

Crawl, walk, run... orgo is just the first step in building a body of knowledge, though much of it is not directly germane to clinical medicine.

 

[lazgirl24]

are you being sarcastic?

 

[doctorcynical]

Doctor Doom,
Where did you go to school? Barbatos?

 

[DoctorDoom]

Nope, not being sarcastic... probably just a personal weakness.

I went to school somewhere where they taught me how to spell and not be an a$$ all the time.

 

[lazgirl24]

oops.. i was replying to the wrong post. sorry

 

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
That's cool you struggled through endocrine but at least you can spell.

I also had the opportunity to struggle in endocrine, an opportunity you do not yet have... and I also have the benefit of not having your superciliousness. A rudeness that I am certain you would not have the guts to display if you and I were in the same room.

Good luck in GETTING IN to medical school.

 

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by lazgirl24
oops.. i was replying to the wrong post. sorry

No worries, the latter part of my post was not directed at you. 🙂

 

[lazgirl24]

i am not sure if you are referring to me.. but i didn't mean to say anything mean. I am just sick and tired of ppl telling me that bio majors suck.

 

[doctorcynical]

OKay I'll stop being an A$$. I am sure you will make a great doctor DoctorDoom. I am just a very bitter lad. p.s. I've been accepted at seven schools. UCI, UCSF, UCLA, Meharry, Tulane, Ohio State, and Wake. Still waiting on the best school in the nation.

Stanford or bust.

 

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by doctorcynical
OKay I'll stop being an A$$. I am sure you will make a great doctor DoctorDoom. I am just a very bitter lad. p.s. I've been accepted at six schools. UCI, UCSF, Meharry, Tulane, Ohio State, and Wake. Still waiting on the best school in the nation.

Stanford or bust.

Congrats, and I understand the bitterness. It's a lot easier after having been away from residency for a while like me to say "Hey, orgo is not so bad."

Even if you don't get into Stanford, BTW, I wouldn't say bust, those are some great schools you got into. If I applied now I probably wouldn't get into any of them.

 

[DoctorDoom]

Originally posted by lazgirl24
i am not sure if you are referring to me.. but i didn't mean to say anything mean. I am just sick and tired of ppl telling me that bio majors suck.

It's ok, they're just jealous. 😉

After all, what other major lets you take off for semesters at sea doing "marine biology research?"