Is Pass/Fail all that?

[sponch]

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Just an observation:

Is Pass/Fail that great of a thing? The number one reason cited for having a Pass/Fail grading system is to mitigate competition and promote a friendly, supportive learning environment.

My thinking is that if medical schools screen for gunners, the whole competition thing isn't a big deal. Most of the people I've met in medical schools aren't like this, so do you think they'd be that different with a point based grading system?

I tend to think that Pass/Fail does not reward those who put in extra effort, and I'm not the competitive type at all. Yes, I compete with myself and always want to improve on past performance, but I don't see other people as obstacles to my success.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[filmdoc26]

Those are some good points, Sponch. However, I still think that a pass/fail system is a great idea. That reason of promoting a friendly, non-competitive environment is very important to me. It helps to build community and perhaps more supportive frienships, I think. The interview process (I think we can all agree) is fairly flawed in that it can't REALLY pick out all the gunners or unqualified applicants. Afterall, who doesn't go to these interviews with their best face on?
Lastly, the pass/fail system does not help out those who put in extra effort. But the reason is because the first two years of med school are, quite simply, less significant than the latter two, which are the years residency programs evaluate more. Those last two years are usually non-pass/fail.

 

[closertofine]

is there a quick way to find out which schools are pass-fail, besides looking at each school's website?

thanks!

 

[tBw]

Originally posted by karen44
is there a quick way to find out which schools are pass-fail, besides looking at each school's website?

thanks!

yes, the aamc has compiled all school curricula details. It can be very useful.

http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section1/grading1.cfm

 

[i_bite]

I'm in a letter grade school, and now, looking back at the first two years, I never felt like the grades created extra competition or prevented us from establishing great friendships. The truth is, you'll be ranked based on your scores anyway, whether it's a letter grade or pass/fail. That's how they determine if you are AOA or not. The third year counts more heavily, but the first two years are not insignificant. Also, remember, USMLE is not just pass/fail, you will get the actual number that will determine how competitive you are compared to other applicants for residency spots. The bottom line, I would not base my choice of medical school on grading system. You'll work very hard either way.😎

 

[tBw]

the truth is - it's more important to some than to others...

 

[mpp]

I used think that I would not like a pass fail system. I felt the same way...that in a pass/fail system extra effort was not rewarded. But there are a few things that I have discovered now that I'm here. First off is it is how I do that is the reward in itself. I know what my scores on an exam are and most of the time I know what the average for the class or I get to see a histogram of scores. Knowing that I'm in the top part of that histogram is a great feeling and reward in and of itself. So the reward of doing well and putting extra effort still exists.

Secondly, the material in medical school can be so vast that the return on investment can be small once you've reached a certain level of knowledge. As an example, let's say it takes 20 hours of studying to pass the anatomy exam. An extra 5 hours or so and maybe you'll be in the top half of the class. An extra 15 on top of that and you can get a 95 percent (nobody gets 100 percent). Is 20 hours of balls out studying worth it just to get those few extra points? Are you going to be that much better a doctor because you know 5 more details of minutiae than the next person? Probably not and it's probably likely you'll forget those 5 details within a month anway. Here, in our pass/fail system, people still want to excel especially when the material seems important and relevant and most students put in a ton of effort. The curriculum is challening enough that it takes a lot of work just to pass and if you want to be above average it can take a great deal of work. But getting a 95% is just not as important to me as is spending time with my life outside of medical school....friends, family, activities, etc.

Lastly, pass/fail gives you just that extra bit of freedom when things are at their worst. A million other things could be going on and at times you feel that you can't neglect school work for even a minute because only 2 points on a test could separate you from Honors/'A' from the B-level work. But with the pass/fail system you can give yourself a bit of a break at times. Screw studying for one quiz that's worth 1% of your final grade (and they have those sometimes) when it's probably best that you're helping out in a family crisis, spending time with loved ones that are missing you, or just taking a break from the real world and having a few beers with friends.

We'll all get measured out equally with our USMLE scores in the end, so I support pass/fail all the way.