Is physical chemistry require for medical school?

[bjt223]

---

Members don't see this ad.

My undergrad school does not require me to take physical chemistry as a biology major, but should I still take it to impress adcoms?

 

[gyngyn]

No. We won't be impressed.

 

[clocks123]

If P-chem was required, the applicant pool would substantially decrease in size🙂.
But if you want to take it because you are interested in the class, then, by all means, go ahead. Don't take it, however, just to impress adcoms because you will end up being miserable in the class.

 

[Aerus]

My undergrad school does not require me to take physical chemistry as a biology major, but should I still take it to impress adcoms?

Not all premeds are biology majors. In fact, a large portion are chemistry majors with quite a few engineers, so they see many applicants who have taken Physical Chemistry.

 

[fmpak93]

it requires up to multivariable calculus. second semester of it is usually all quantum mechanics. It would be like a second weed out course after organic chemistry. like the above poster said, the pool of applicants would've been cut dramatically.

 

[sat0ri]

Yeah that class is brutal. Don't take it unless you like physical chemistry, multivariate calc, heavy quantum, and softly weeping on Saturday nights.

 

[The Buff OP]

No. We won't be impressed.

Not even a little? lol

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Not even a little? lol

I'd be impressed. Perhaps they should make it a requirement to see who really wants it.

 

[gyngyn]

Not even a little? lol

Nope. We won't even notice.

 

[The Buff OP]

Nope. We won't even notice.

Do you think calculus should be required for all medical schools? If I stay in Texas my major won't even touch calculus, but if I were to transfer to a school in California most of their science degrees include calculus.

 

[gyngyn]

Do you think calculus should be required for all medical schools? If I stay in Texas my major won't even touch calculus, but if I were to transfer to a school in California most of their science degrees include calculus.

My opinion is that statistics is far more useful in medicine. When relevant math competencies become the norm this will hopefully become reflected in under-grad math recommendations. Many schools lag in this respect, sadly.

 

[fmpak93]

No. We won't be impressed.

Concerning coursework only, how would you make the distinction between two applicants? How many hard courses is enough to impress or raise an eyebrow for adcoms?

 

[gyngyn]

Concerning coursework only, how would you make the distinction between two applicants? How many hard courses is enough to impress or raise an eyebrow for adcoms?

The screener is the first pass. If you make it past him, you go to an interview. It never comes down to two otherwise identical candidates with a Sophie's choice. Applications that exceed the threshold for an interview get one. Applicants from all majors and backgrounds can be excellent.

We ask that you distinguish yourself in your chosen field of study. If that includes P-Chem, so be it. We really don't care as long as you have also acquired competencies in the sciences sufficient for the schools to which you apply.

I suppose it is possible to choose an entirely fluff field of study. I wouldn't recommend that!

 

[PREMED1992]

The screener is the first pass. If you make it past him, you go to an interview. It never comes down to two otherwise identical candidates with a Sophie's choice. Applications that exceed the threshold for an interview get one. Applicants from all majors and backgrounds can be excellent.

We ask that you distinguish yourself in your chosen field of study. If that includes P-Chem, so be it. We really don't care as long as you have also acquired competencies in the sciences sufficient for the schools to which you apply.

I suppose it is possible to choose an entirely fluff field of study. I wouldn't recommend that!

After someone has had their interview, do you go back to the application when deciding who to choose or is the interview what matters?

 

[Aerus]

After someone has had their interview, do you go back to the application when deciding who to choose or is the interview what matters?

Many people have referred to the "staircase analogy" on SDN. The strength of your application puts you on a certain step of this staircase. Those who are high enough get an interview. After the interview, you can either go up, down, or stay on your current step. Acceptances are given according to that.

 

[gyngyn]

After someone has had their interview, do you go back to the application when deciding who to choose or is the interview what matters?

Each member ( faculty or student), having seen the whole file, will evaluate the applicant on the crucial questions: Does this person inspire me to be a better teacher? Would I want this person in my small group? Depending the outcome of the deliberations, an accept, waitlist or rejection will result.

 

[G_Marker]

Not unless you want to and are good at it.

Otherwise, you may be miserable in the class and it could definitely hurt your GPA. Having a 'B' or heaven-forbid a 'C' in a science course wouldn't be impressive at all.

 

[Beargryllz]

jesus christ, no

physical chemistry is not required for medical school

 

[The Buff OP]

My opinion is that statistics is far more useful in medicine. When relevant math competencies become the norm this will be reflected in under-grad training. Even some CA schools lag in this respect, sadly.

I feel the same way.

 

[allantois]

I keep meeting pre-meds who are trying to major in Chemistry just to be "different" from everyone else.

The worst thing, they can't even get good grades in chem classes😵

 

[Rinya]

I took physical chemistry and loved it. I got a B, but I think I learned a ton. However, my major was chemistry and it was required for my degree. Don't take it if you don't absolutely love chemistry, which is the only reason I took it. Or at least the only reason I majored in chemistry.

 

[Psai]

No. We won't be impressed.

Have you ever taken the class? Mine was ridiculous. I flew through all my bio classes with a- minimum including upper level courses but ended up with a B+ and a B in physical chemistry despite putting in way more time and effort.
I think it really forces you to understand the basics of chemistry in an abstract manner of thinking. I noticed that some of my classmates didn't exactly have the most solid scientific background

 

[gyngyn]

Have you ever taken the class? Mine was ridiculous. I flew through all my bio classes with a- minimum including upper level courses but ended up with a B+ and a B in physical chemistry despite putting in way more time and effort.
I think it really forces you to understand the basics of chemistry in an abstract manner of thinking. I noticed that some of my classmates didn't exactly have the most solid scientific background

I'm glad you enjoyed a growth experience.
The opportunity for such experiences is what undergrad education should be!

 

[Psai]

Wouldn't mind some props dropped here and there

 

[Ismet]

Wouldn't mind some props dropped here and there

Wouldn't we all.

Fact is that the list of courses gets a brief glance, if any glance at all, from most committee members. Also pchem isn't that uncommon among pre-meds.

 

[Psai]

Wouldn't we all.

Fact is that the list of courses gets a brief glance, if any glance at all, from most committee members. Also pchem isn't that uncommon among pre-meds.

Bs outside of chemistry and biochem majors no one takes it

 

[Aerus]

Bs outside of chemistry and biochem majors no one takes it

Chem and Biochem majors make up quite a large portion of premeds. Don't forget that some engineering disciples have PChem too.

 

[Ismet]

Bs outside of chemistry and biochem majors no one takes it

There are quite a few chemistry majors, biochem majors, and chemical engineering majors applying to med school. I don't have any statistics off hand, but chemistry is probably the 2nd most common major among applicants (after lumping all the bio derivatives together), or at least top 5.

 

[brewdog11]

No, it's not. But if you like taking brutal classes, p-chem will be right up your alley.

Just remember: A "B" in p-chem is an "A" in life.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

My undergrad school does not require me to take physical chemistry as a biology major, but should I still take it to impress adcoms?

You need to understand that admissions committees do not normalize undergraduate transcripts to account for: 1) the rigor of each applicant's undergraduate school with respect to grade inflation or admissions competitiveness; 2) the varying difficulty of the applicants' majors; or 3) the varying weight of applicants' course loads. The reasons for their failure to make such adjustments are the adcoms' stupidity, laziness and political correctness. (If you don't believe me look at the work of Clarence Kreiter of the University of Iowa.) I asked an adcom if any adjustments were made to transcripts at her institution to account for undergraduate rigor and her reply was, "How could we?"

The failure to adjust transcripts is the reason that only 15% of first year medical students were physics or chemistry majors. (See old copies of the MSAR.) The undergraduates who aspire to go to medical school who are willing to climb the steepest mountain are systematically excluded from medical school. It's like little league where the best pitching arms get ruined. In fact the geniuses who administer the MCAT will soon deemphasize science even more by including sociology and psychology among the tested subjects. We'll soon produce a generation of physicians who can't diagnose patients but who can get in touch with their feelings while the patients get ready to die.

Do yourself a big favor. Avoid PCHEM. In fact you'd be better off if you avoid calculus, calculus based physics and every professor who can't be bullied or begged into giving you an A. That's the way to get into medical school.

 

[Aerus]

The reasons for their failure to make such adjustments are the adcoms' stupidity, laziness and political correctness. (If you don't believe me look at the work of Clarence Kreiter of the University of Iowa.) I asked an adcom if any adjustments were made to transcripts at her institution to account for undergraduate rigor and her reply was, "How could we?"

Admissions want excellence in the field of study that you have chosen. Mediocrity in engineering/physics does not warrant some "boost". Should undergraduate colleges accept a person with a 2.6 GPA and 1300 SAT over a 4.8 GPA and 2350 SAT just because the former worked full time and couldn't dedicate enough time to take AP classes, do well in school, and score decently on the SAT?

The fact is that there are more mediocre/sub-mediocre engineers than there are stellar whatever other majors. The applicant pool is way too competitive to make adjustments according to major.

The failure to adjust transcripts is the reason that only 15% of first year medical students were physics or chemistry majors. (See old copies of the MSAR.)

Or because the vast majority of applicants aren't physics and chemistry majors?

In fact the geniuses who administer the MCAT will soon deemphasize science even more by including sociology and psychology among the tested subjects. We'll soon produce a generation of physicians who can't diagnose patients but who can get in touch with their feelings while the patients get ready to die.

Yes, because classes in fluid mechanics, analytical chemistry, microbial genetics, and introduction to systems engineering will improve diagnostic abilities? You learn everything you need to once you start your medical training. Should I say that you will be a bad physician because you didn't take life science classes in elementary school?

And I kind of like the idea of physicians who can think beyond treating patients like they are data points and are able to understand that not all cases are black and white, which is what a lot of science classes teach.

 

[allantois]

Admissions want excellence in the field of study that you have chosen. Mediocrity in engineering/physics does not warrant some "boost". Should undergraduate colleges accept a person with a 2.6 GPA and 1300 SAT over a 4.8 GPA and 2350 SAT just because the former worked full time and couldn't dedicate enough time to take AP classes, do well in school, and score decently on the SAT?

The fact is that there are more mediocre/sub-mediocre engineers than there are stellar whatever other majors. The applicant pool is way too competitive to make adjustments according to major.



Or because the vast majority of applicants aren't physics and chemistry majors?



Yes, because classes in fluid mechanics, analytical chemistry, microbial genetics, and introduction to systems engineering will improve diagnostic abilities? You learn everything you need to once you start your medical training. Should I say that you will be a bad physician because you didn't take life science classes in elementary school?

And I kind of like the idea of physicians who can think beyond treating patients like they are data points and are able to understand that not all cases are black and white, which is what a lot of science classes teach.

I was just thinking about mediocre students who are trying to hide their mediocrity by majoring in Chemistry instead of Biology. Instead of doing poorly in Bio, they are doing poorly in Chem and then say that it's because of all the hard chem classes that they have to take. Bottom line is that they are mediocre students regardless of what they major in. This doesn't apply to everyone, of course.

Also my gen psych class had a lower average than Orgo 1 as I was taking both at the same time, but there are a lot of reasons for it including many psych majors being happy with simply passing the class.

 

[studentp0x]

You need to understand that admissions committees do not normalize undergraduate transcripts to account for: 1) the rigor of each applicant's undergraduate school with respect to grade inflation or admissions competitiveness; 2) the varying difficulty of the applicants' majors; or 3) the varying weight of applicants' course loads. The reasons for their failure to make such adjustments are the adcoms' stupidity, laziness and political correctness. (If you don't believe me look at the work of Clarence Kreiter of the University of Iowa.) I asked an adcom if any adjustments were made to transcripts at her institution to account for undergraduate rigor and her reply was, "How could we?"

The failure to adjust transcripts is the reason that only 15% of first year medical students were physics or chemistry majors. (See old copies of the MSAR.) The undergraduates who aspire to go to medical school who are willing to climb the steepest mountain are systematically excluded from medical school. It's like little league where the best pitching arms get ruined. In fact the geniuses who administer the MCAT will soon deemphasize science even more by including sociology and psychology among the tested subjects. We'll soon produce a generation of physicians who can't diagnose patients but who can get in touch with their feelings while the patients get ready to die.

Do yourself a big favor. Avoid PCHEM. In fact you'd be better off if you avoid calculus, calculus based physics and every professor who can't be bullied or begged into giving you an A. That's the way to get into medical school.

Was reading about some crappy neurosurgeon who's been endlessly sued (due to bad clinical judgement leading to his screw ups, not surgical skills). Turns out he had a 4.0 through his undergrad major which was chemical engineering. Basically what you would call a genius at school.

You'll soon learn that being super smart at school does not directly translate over to real world skills and application. There are endless math/physics geniuses who would make crappy doctors.

 

[D4C]

I was just thinking about mediocre students who are trying to hide their mediocrity by majoring in Chemistry instead of Biology. Instead of doing poorly in Bio, they are doing poorly in Chem and then say that it's because of all the hard chem classes that they have to take. Bottom line is that they are mediocre students regardless of what they major in. This doesn't apply to everyone, of course.

Also my gen psych class had a lower average than Orgo 1 as I was taking both at the same time, but there are a lot of reasons for it including many psych majors being happy with simply passing the class.

Not even close

 

[IslandStyle808]

My opinion is that statistics is far more useful in medicine. When relevant math competencies become the norm this will hopefully become reflected in under-grad math recommendations. Many schools lag in this respect, sadly.

I'd thrown in epidemiology also.