Is pre-interview dinner a dealbreaker?

[ptoi]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I have an interview at a place I really like this week, but it's two hours away from where I live and I can't afford any more hotel rooms for my interview season. Is it a dealbreaker to attend the pre-interview dinner? I would have to drive 2 hours to and from the hospital that evening, and then get up early in the morning and drive back the next day. I'd prefer not to do that but some threads on here seem to indicate pre-interview dinners are the "real" interview.

 

[tryptophan321]

I have an interview at a place I really like this week, but it's two hours away from where I live and I can't afford any more hotel rooms for my interview season. Is it a dealbreaker to attend the pre-interview dinner? I would have to drive 2 hours to and from the hospital that evening, and then get up early in the morning and drive back the next day. I'd prefer not to do that but some threads on here seem to indicate pre-interview dinners are the "real" interview.

I'll be missing a few dinners and have never even considered the idea that that might hurt my chances at a program. Pre-interview dinners are for you to talk to residents in an unscrutinized setting, so in that sense they're valuable for you to get a better idea of what the program is like... but if you can't make it, you can't make it. I haven't once felt like residents were keeping track of who showed up and acted what way, etc.

 

[deleted392989]

I'll be missing a few dinners and have never even considered the idea that that might hurt my chances at a program. Pre-interview dinners are for you to talk to residents in an unscrutinized setting, so in that sense they're valuable for you to get a better idea of what the program is like... but if you can't make it, you can't make it. I haven't once felt like residents were keeping track of who showed up and acted what way, etc.

Completely agree. The only way to screw up these dinners is to be a loud dingus who tries to dominate conversations and shut other people out of them or to completely shut down and not talk much the entire night. Most people don't fall into these 2 categories.

 

[GOLDMARK]

I think the pre-interview dinners are more for the candidate than the program. So if you can't make it, I don't think it will be held against you.

 

[Crayola227]

I'll be missing a few dinners and have never even considered the idea that that might hurt my chances at a program. Pre-interview dinners are for you to talk to residents in an unscrutinized setting, so in that sense they're valuable for you to get a better idea of what the program is like... but if you can't make it, you can't make it. I haven't once felt like residents were keeping track of who showed up and acted what way, etc.

It is not a dealbreaker to not attend. It can help you to attend. It can hurt you to attend. It's just one more interaction but the interview is really what counts. The dinner is mostly for your benefit, although it's true you can sabotage yourself. If you're not sure of your social skills don't go, if you're dying for any scrap of intel you can get on a program go.

And sure, the residents do develop opinions of candidates from their interactions at dinner, interview lunch, whatever. Do those get passed on to PD? Sure. You know what they say you're being judge by your every interaction with the program, from the hospital security staff and latte maker to the PC & PD & residents.

 

[ptoi]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. This is relieving to hear. Realistically, the extra 4+ hours of driving plus the gas money is not desirable, and since I can't afford to get hotel lodging for most interviews due to my budget, driving down in the early morning would be the easiest option for me by far.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

You don't need to go. Hell, I matched at a program whose dinner I missed because I was travelling the night before.

 

[Crayola227]

I was buzzed to minimally drunk at most of them. Good times.

Same here.

Although I don't advise it students. Keep to one. None makes you look stuffy, more than one can be taken the wrong way. Plus it could get you into trouble.

Don't go home with any of the residents the night before the interview, LOL.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Interview dinners are worth it for the free booze and food. However it is not essential to be at them to look good in your interview.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I was buzzed to minimally drunk at most of them. Good times.

I kept it to one beer at the last dinner that I went to. It was nice that it turned out to be the same choice of drink that both the residents made.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I never drank anything at the dinners, and I noticed that most of the time none of the other applicants were either. Unless you really need a drink to loosen up or something, I'd stay away altogether. Stories abound of intoxicated people saying/doing stupid **** at these dinners.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I never drank anything at the dinners, and I noticed that most of the time none of the other applicants were either. Unless you really need a drink to loosen up or something, I'd stay away altogether. Stories abound of intoxicated people saying/doing stupid **** at these dinners.

I had one beer or one glass of wine at each dinner where it was offered, as did most of the applicants that were with me. I never encountered applicants saying anything stupid. Also recently having gone on fellowship interviews at least half of the applicants usually had something to drink.

It's all personal choice obviously but I don't think it's necessarily the norm what you experienced, and my own interview experience at these dinners was quite different.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

avoid only if you turn beet red with 1 drink. otherwise just use common sense

 

[Crayola227]

I never drank anything at the dinners, and I noticed that most of the time none of the other applicants were either. Unless you really need a drink to loosen up or something, I'd stay away altogether. Stories abound of intoxicated people saying/doing stupid **** at these dinners.

People may not like my advice in general, but where I know I have people beat is residency interview experience. I went to like 30 interviews in almost that many states. So I definitely have anecdotes for days on what I've seen. I agree that minimization and avoidance of booze is a good idea like the above post, but:

It depends, if you're at a bar and the residents are buying pitchers and that is basically all there is to this gathering....
If you're at a table of 6 people (so no background blending here), and every single resident and applicant going round the table has ordered one....

I would say stay away unless staying away is just painfully obvious like the above scenarios. I've seen some weird ****. Some applicants actually got put on the spot in those above scenarios. "So what, do you just not drink?" "Is this like a religious thing?" "You're not a recovering alcoholic, are you?" So I'm not exaggerating that some places not ordering a drink really did hurt the impression you were giving people. Should that have happened? No. Doesn't change the fact that now those residents may think those people aren't "fun" enough.

Uh, not worth the above scenario. Order the drink, drink like half of it and leave the rest. 1/2 a weak beer isn't going to hurt you (unless it really is religious or medical) but it will give the right appearance.

Otherwise, if you don't order and are questioned/pressured, just say "If this was a weekend I'd love to be having what you're having, but it just really messes with my sleep, especially the night before a big day." This also gets you off the hook.

It's cultural whether or not you really need to order a drink at a program. But it is real based on my experiences.

 

[tryptophan321]

The neuroticism in this forum

 

[dozitgetchahi]

People may not like my advice in general, but where I know I have people beat is residency interview experience. I went to like 30 interviews in almost that many states. So I definitely have anecdotes for days on what I've seen. I agree that minimization and avoidance of booze is a good idea like the above post, but:

It depends, if you're at a bar and the residents are buying pitchers and that is basically all there is to this gathering....
If you're at a table of 6 people (so no background blending here), and every single resident and applicant going round the table has ordered one....

I would say stay away unless staying away is just painfully obvious like the above scenarios. I've seen some weird ****. Some applicants actually got put on the spot in those above scenarios. "So what, do you just not drink?" "Is this like a religious thing?" "You're not a recovering alcoholic, are you?" So I'm not exaggerating that some places not ordering a drink really did hurt the impression you were giving people. Should that have happened? No. Doesn't change the fact that now those residents may think those people aren't "fun" enough.

Uh, not worth the above scenario. Order the drink, drink like half of it and leave the rest. 1/2 a weak beer isn't going to hurt you (unless it really is religious or medical) but it will give the right appearance.

Otherwise, if you don't order and are questioned/pressured, just say "If this was a weekend I'd love to be having what you're having, but it just really messes with my sleep, especially the night before a big day." This also gets you off the hook.

It's cultural whether or not you really need to order a drink at a program. But it is real based on my experiences.

I went to 17 interviews for residency and 10 for fellowship, so I don't lack experience.

I never, ever saw anyone get pressured for not drinking and I saw more applicants abstaining than drinking at the majority of my interviews.

Obviously, if you can handle it...great! I'd advise not doing the 'buzzed => drunk' bit, however.

I didn't drink at these because my EtOH tolerance is practically zilch and it wouldn't have been long before I was doing stupid stuff and falling half asleep (with a horrendous hangover the following day to boot).

 

[GOLDMARK]

I went to 17 interviews for residency and 10 for fellowship, so I don't lack experience.

I never, ever saw anyone get pressured for not drinking and I saw more applicants abstaining than drinking at the majority of my interviews.

Obviously, if you can handle it...great! I'd advise not doing the 'buzzed => drunk' bit, however.

I didn't drink at these because my EtOH tolerance is practically zilch and it wouldn't have been long before I was doing stupid stuff and falling half asleep (with a horrendous hangover the following day to boot).

I don't drink either, and nobody has said anything about it or even noticed. Interviewees are too busy grilling the residents, and the residents are too busy trying to munch down on their food in between the interrogation sessions.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I don't drink either, and nobody has said anything about it or even noticed. Interviewees are too busy grilling the residents, and the residents are too busy trying to munch down on their food in between the interrogation sessions.

Yeah I don't know of any dinners where they made a big deal of the applicants not drinking. That sounds absurd. Nobody is paying that much attention. As a resident any time I go to these dinners I'm just there to enjoy a night out and to get free food and drinks along with mingling. If someone is paying that much attention, that is damn weird.

 

[tantacles]

I would say that, on average, I have more alcohol on residency interviews than others (2-3, usually. I don't like to waste an open bar!), but I've also seen others not drink. They usually just order a cranberry with seltzer. No one cared. Seriously. No one cares if you drink or not. Just don't go crazy.

 

[siliso]

No big deal, don't worry about it.

 

[Crayola227]

I went to 17 interviews for residency and 10 for fellowship, so I don't lack experience.

I never, ever saw anyone get pressured for not drinking and I saw more applicants abstaining than drinking at the majority of my interviews.

Obviously, if you can handle it...great! I'd advise not doing the 'buzzed => drunk' bit, however.

I didn't drink at these because my EtOH tolerance is practically zilch and it wouldn't have been long before I was doing stupid stuff and falling half asleep (with a horrendous hangover the following day to boot).

yeah I certainly wasnt meaning to imply others didn't have equivalent expeience (OK I'm got you beat was a little boastful) just giving frame of reference in my experience.

most places no big deal. if anything, comparing these experiences here just supports what people are saying - different programs really are different and culture etc. it is worth going if you can (you could see how you feel about the bizzarro dinner scenarios I described above if you happen to encounter them)

and like people said, most places you can just get a seltzer and make an excuse if you're in the rare booze-hound resident gathering

 

[ArkansasMed]

I liked going to the dinner. Best place to see the true atmosphere and personalities of the residents. Also received the most candid responses if they liked going to their program. Overall, not needed to match there but really gives you a flavor for the program itself.

 

[buonassezia]

Another perspective:

A great chief I really liked and respected told me you don't want to stick out in any negative way, and that may mean getting a drink or two if the setting calls for it. Use your own best judgment, of course. But as she said, residents are worked like dogs and they finally get an excuse to go blow off steam; do they really want to spend that time hanging out with a bummer student who won't talk, refuses to let down their guard, and goes home early? If you're at risk of being that person without a drink, don't be the only person cradling water just because of Decorum.

Of course many people are naturally charismatic and outgoing, and don't need any help feeling comfortable or engaging. Rock on, friend! Otherwise, chochacho, enjoy the free drink!

Actually one of the best nights on the interview trail for me so far was when I was a little bolder than usual, got a little tipsy, had a great time with the residents, and stayed out later than most of the applicants. The next day the residents were genuinely excited to see me, knew me, and spent tons of extra time and attention talking and trying to recruit me on the interview day, no joke. To be fair, I can be quiet and nerdy when sober, and totally know how to find the happy medium of pleasantly buzzed long before risking sloppy drunk. I don't think this was a bad choice. YMMV. We're all adults; take whatever you should have learned in college about your own alcohol tolerance and apply it.

 

[tantacles]

Another perspective:

A great chief I really liked and respected told me you don't want to stick out in any negative way, and that may mean getting a drink or two if the setting calls for it. Use your own best judgment, of course. But as she said, residents are worked like dogs and they finally get an excuse to go blow off steam; do they really want to spend that time hanging out with a bummer student who won't talk, refuses to let down their guard, and goes home early? If you're at risk of being that person without a drink, don't be the only person cradling water just because of Decorum.

Of course many people are naturally charismatic and outgoing, and don't need any help feeling comfortable or engaging. Rock on, friend! Otherwise, chochacho, enjoy the free drink!

Actually one of the best nights on the interview trail for me so far was when I was a little bolder than usual, got a little tipsy, had a great time with the residents, and stayed out later than most of the applicants. The next day the residents were genuinely excited to see me, knew me, and spent tons of extra time and attention talking and trying to recruit me on the interview day, no joke. To be fair, I can be quiet and nerdy when sober, and totally know how to find the happy medium of pleasantly buzzed long before risking sloppy drunk. I don't think this was a bad choice. YMMV. We're all adults; take whatever you should have learned in college about your own alcohol tolerance and apply it.

I have to agree 100%. If you don't drink, feel free to get something that looks like a drink to nurse, or even grab a beer and don't drink a single sip.

 

[VentJockey]

I don't think the pre-interview dinner is that big of a deal. Funny story: I interviewed at a program in my hometown, where I grew up. The dinner was me and two other applicants, and then two interns from the program--both of whom had been living in the city of only about 6 months. The other applicants wanted to know all sorts of things about living in the city--so I ended up doing most of the talking about that. I ranked the program low because my hometown is a dump.

 

[DIMC]

.

 

[tartesos]

Same here.
.

Don't go home with any of the residents the night before the interview, LOL.

Why not?

 

[NYUyankeezfan]

How are we supposed to dress? The other night i went to my first pre-interview dinner at a program i've rotated with a couple of times and I know the residents well. The residents both dressed down, said some swear words during the conversation, etc. I wore a nice t-shirt and jeans with nice shoes, others wore shirts with ties. Big deal?

 

[gutonc]

How are we supposed to dress? The other night i went to my first pre-interview dinner at a program i've rotated with a couple of times and I know the residents well. The residents both dressed down, said some swear words during the conversation, etc. I wore a nice t-shirt and jeans with nice shoes, others wore shirts with ties. Big deal?

Business casual. The answer is always "business casual".

 

[deleted480308]

How are we supposed to dress? The other night i went to my first pre-interview dinner at a program i've rotated with a couple of times and I know the residents well. The residents both dressed down, said some swear words during the conversation, etc. I wore a nice t-shirt and jeans with nice shoes, others wore shirts with ties. Big deal?

tshirt to an interview dinner?!?!
nope

 

[magicm]

Are these still consider not important if you can't make it?

 

[gutonc]

Are these still consider not important if you can't make it?

They're always important. But if you can't make it, you can't make it and that's life. You won't not match somewhere just because you couldn't make the dinner.

 

[magicm]

They're always important. But if you can't make it, you can't make it and that's life. You won't not match somewhere just because you couldn't make the dinner.

This may be neurotic but would it move you up or down on the rank list to be there or not (respectively).

My main wonder is I have some dinners where I have a different interview the next day and it would make driving much easier to leave in the afternoon after the interview rather than after the dinner.

 

[gutonc]

This may be neurotic but would it move you up or down on the rank list to be there or not (respectively).

My main wonder is I have some dinners where I have a different interview the next day and it would make driving much easier to leave in the afternoon after the interview rather than after the dinner.

Yes. It's neurotic.

 

[rokshana]

How are we supposed to dress? The other night i went to my first pre-interview dinner at a program i've rotated with a couple of times and I know the residents well. The residents both dressed down, said some swear words during the conversation, etc. I wore a nice t-shirt and jeans with nice shoes, others wore shirts with ties. Big deal?

the residents can dress how they want...they have already matched..realize the interview starts at the dinner...as gutonc said...business casual

jeans and a t-shirt are never appropriate for the interviewee.

 

[IMreshopeful]

This may be neurotic but would it move you up or down on the rank list to be there or not (respectively).

My main wonder is I have some dinners where I have a different interview the next day and it would make driving much easier to leave in the afternoon after the interview rather than after the dinner.

No it would not. I matched at my top choice without coming to the interview dinner. Programs recognize that this is not always feasible and the residents who show up probably don't have that much pull as to who gets ranked.

 

[rokshana]

...and the residents who show up probably don't have that much pull as to who gets ranked.

don't assume that this is true...you're right in that the pre interview dinner isn't a deal breaker...there are lots of reasons why a candidate isn't able to go to the dinner...but, and its program dependent, but the residents that go to the dinner can (and do) make recommendations about the applicants...

i remember going to a dinner and all the residents where stuck by an applicant (and not in a good way) that we all told the PC that the applicant was a DNR in our book...not sure if she had the ability to salvage herself the next day, but our recs were taken into consideration.

 

[chadz]

How bad does it look if we are late to the dinner?
I will be driving down from another interview and will probably be 30-60 minutes late. Is it better to show up late or just skip it all together? And if I do show up late should I mention I just came from another interview?

 

[IMreshopeful]

don't assume that this is true...you're right in that the pre interview dinner isn't a deal breaker...there are lots of reasons why a candidate isn't able to go to the dinner...but, and its program dependent, but the residents that go to the dinner can (and do) make recommendations about the applicants...

i remember going to a dinner and all the residents where stuck by an applicant (and not in a good way) that we all told the PC that the applicant was a DNR in our book...not sure if she had the ability to salvage herself the next day, but our recs were taken into consideration.

yeah it goes without saying that if an applicant is a dick the residents will make it known. However the vast majority will be the same - quiet, polite and good at faking enthusiasm. So overall it isn't a make or break situation.

 

[tantacles]

the residents can dress how they want...they have already matched..realize the interview starts at the dinner...as gutonc said...business casual

jeans and a t-shirt are never appropriate for the interviewee.

Meh, at our program (yes, it's academic) we encourage casual, including jeans.


Large dogs

 

[tantacles]

How bad does it look if we are late to the dinner?
I will be driving down from another interview and will probably be 30-60 minutes late. Is it better to show up late or just skip it all together? And if I do show up late should I mention I just came from another interview?

It's fine. If you have a contact person, just make sure to let them know that there's a good chance you'll be late.


Large dogs