2-year MOC point requirement is eliminated

[gutonc]

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When I got my MS in E.E. many years ago, not many of us saw the need for PE. It seemed anachronistic for the type of work we were doing - software, fiber optic, chips, control systems, antenna design, etc to name a few areas. At the time, we E.E.s perceived it was more the mechanical and civil engineers that needed the professional designation. Not sure how it is emphasized now, or how relevant. It certainly seems analogous to our medical credentialling. I often wonder how things would have been if I stayed in engineering, but I do love the clinical work and learning.

We're pretty OT here, but I think it depends on what you're doing. My BIL is a Chem E by education and works for a large, multinational engineering firm doing systems/process engineering, basically designing and building (or retooling) factories. In his case, without his PE, he's basically an overqualified draftsman. With it, he can be a project lead/site manager...and it more than doubled his salary. Kind of like going from resident to attending.

Agree that for a lot of other types of engineering, it's unnecessary or superfluous.

 

[gutonc]

As I mentioned, I think MOC should be just some open book LKA with references. No timings. Score doesn't matter, you're considered participating in MOC as long as you do it. 20-30 questions per year max focused on new things / changes / important updates. That's it. CME is already covered by licenses, so no need to repeat it here.

I definitely agree with this one. I actually appreciate the LKA in Oncology since it's very much focused on current practice. I could do with a lot fewer questions for sure. 30 a quarter seems a little excessive. As does the price tag.

I also think that we're all kind of arguing the same side here. The current system is stupid and the "fixes" are even dumber. And it's going to take a lot of work to undo the current system and come up with something new. Enough that it's unlikely to get done.

 

[pishicat]

Stick a fork in me .. I’m done.
After a 10 hour day , just got back - took the MOC recert again. Y’all know my story here- I failed the one in October 2024, found out on December 11 (the same day my dad died ) that I didn’t pass - had to make funeral arrangements, grieve, and then jump back on the horse and study again with other life issues, full-time job, and other crap popping up here and there.
Thank you for everyone and your input and your encouragement here. I definitely can say Uworld was helpful. I did not do it last time. All I did was awesome review last time but this time I read the awesome review books and the UWorld question bank - I practiced over and over again as much time as I had. I did buy mksap and board basics, but didn’t have enough time to go through it. So if I fail this time, I guess I’ll have to incorporate that in for the fall 2025 exam.
And by the way, my Pearson Vue center apparently has had computer glitches over the past two months. They told me it’s the whole building. So in session #1, my entire screen froze after Q 20 and they had to reboot the system,— it created so much anxiety. I didn’t lose any time, but I found out all the way at the end of the session , (when I had no time left) the screen that shows your complete or marked answers , had 5 of my questions “INCOMPLETE “ ..and they happened to be at the same exact time that there was the computer glitch so, not sure what to do about that. It had completely undone 5 of my bubbled answers.
I explained this in the survey at the end to ABIM. Not sure they even read these surveys and not sure they even care, but I told them that I would have no reason to leave any question incomplete, since there is no penalty for guessing. Five in a row and happens to be at the same time as when the software froze.
It happened again in session #3 , but this time I made sure that I went and checked all of my answers once the computer rebooted again to make sure that nothing was unbubbled. So ridiculous. To say that this has been a grueling experience over the past four months is an understatement.

 

[LoudBark]

Stick a fork in me .. I’m done.
After a 10 hour day , just got back - took the MOC recert again. Y’all know my story here- I failed the one in October 2024, found out on December 11 (the same day my dad died ) that I didn’t pass - had to make funeral arrangements, grieve, and then jump back on the horse and study again with other life issues, full-time job, and other crap popping up here and there.
Thank you for everyone and your input and your encouragement here. I definitely can say Uworld was helpful. I did not do it last time. All I did was awesome review last time but this time I read the awesome review books and the UWorld question bank - I practiced over and over again as much time as I had. I did buy mksap and board basics, but didn’t have enough time to go through it. So if I fail this time, I guess I’ll have to incorporate that in for the fall 2025 exam.
And by the way, my Pearson Vue center apparently has had computer glitches over the past two months. They told me it’s the whole building. So in session #1, my entire screen froze after Q 20 and they had to reboot the system,— it created so much anxiety. I didn’t lose any time, but I found out all the way at the end of the session , (when I had no time left) the screen that shows your complete or marked answers , had 5 of my questions “INCOMPLETE “ ..and they happened to be at the same exact time that there was the computer glitch so, not sure what to do about that. It had completely undone 5 of my bubbled answers.
I explained this in the survey at the end to ABIM. Not sure they even read these surveys and not sure they even care, but I told them that I would have no reason to leave any question incomplete, since there is no penalty for guessing. Five in a row and happens to be at the same time as when the software froze.
It happened again in session #3 , but this time I made sure that I went and checked all of my answers once the computer rebooted again to make sure that nothing was unbubbled. So ridiculous. To say that this has been a grueling experience over the past four months is an understatement.

Hopefully you pass. But that being said, why did you opt for the 10 year test instead of the longitudinal knowledge assessment? Different people are are different, but in your case having to cram and do all that studying with a full time job and other things going on in your life, it seems like the LKA would have been a much less stressful and way to go? (Do not get me wrong, the LKA is far from a perfect scenario and yeah, ideally we should not have to any of this junk).

 

[DrMetal]

Hopefully you pass. But that being said, why did you opt for the 10 year test instead of the longitudinal knowledge assessment?

I think it better to be hassled once every 10 years, than to have something looming over your head quarterly. This was one of my favorite posts:

where the ABIM tried to 'brag' about how easy it was to do LKA questions, that you can even do them while on vacation. Of course, the backlash ensued, when it was (correctly) pointed out that doctors can't even leave their professional requirements while on vacation. ABIM deleted the post.

That we have to do either, quarterly LKA or a longer test every 10-years, is totally unnecessary. It's especially ridiculous if you're in your 50s or 60s and taken the damn thing 3 times!

 

[pishicat]

Hopefully you pass. But that being said, why did you opt for the 10 year test instead of the longitudinal knowledge assessment? Different people are are different, but in your case having to cram and do all that studying with a full time job and other things going on in your life, it seems like the LKA would have been a much less stressful and way to go? (Do not get me wrong, the LKA is far from a perfect scenario and yeah, ideally we should not have to any of this junk).

Hi! because my recert of 10 years was going to expire at the end of 2024. I seriously thought that I could pass the October 2024 test and I would not have to worry about the five-year thing. But unfortunately, I relied on just awesome review notes and I had not read all the wonderful advice here to do Uworld Qbank and mksap etc. I am now in my one year grace period so I have no choice to continue this 10 year in person - . I’m not eligible to sign up for the LKA anymore. If I don’t pass , I have one more try for the fall 2025, which is in November.

 

[dgdg]

I suppose if you failed by just several questions, you might have a valid grievance due to test center irregularities.
It would potentially be worthwhile if you reviewed the ABIM test center variances policy and submit a report now.

 

[pishicat]

I passed !!! Just got my results. I think the key this time was adding UWorld Q bank to my studies. Last time I only did Awesome Review and it was NOT enough. I did buy MKSAP but never got around to it. I scored close to median -- last time I was a few marks away from "passing" ...so definitely helped to do Questions . The actual exam as most have said, is much much shorter than the UWorld Qbank , but it lets you get used to the style.

 

[DrMetal]

I passed !!! Just got my results. I think the key this time was adding UWorld Q bank to my studies. Last time I only did Awesome Review and it was NOT enough. I did buy MKSAP but never got around to it. I scored close to median -- last time I was a few marks away from "passing" ...so definitely helped to do Questions . The actual exam as most have said, is much much shorter than the UWorld Qbank , but it lets you get used to the style.

From what I remember, Uworld was the best. It was uncanny how some of the questions on the actual test look so similar to Uworld . . . almost as if Uworld had some inside access.

 

[Splenda88]

From what I remember, Uworld was the best. It was uncanny how some of the questions on the actual test look so similar to Uworld . . . almost as if Uworld had some inside access.

I did ok (close to average) 4 yrs ago by using MKSAPP. Maybe I should use Uworld when I take it again.

 

[gutonc]

I did ok (close to average) 4 yrs ago by using MKSAPP. Maybe I should use Uworld when I take it again.

This is one of those eternal debates with MKSAP lovers and UW partisans squaring off against each other in a war of attrition. I used MKSAP because my program paid for it. I did fine. I suspect if my program had bought me UW instead, I would have used it and done fine. While there are clear stylistic differences between the 2 Q banks, I don't think that there's any meaningful difference in them and people who swear by one or the other are doing so with limited data.

 

[Splenda88]

This is one of those eternal debates with MKSAP lovers and UW partisans squaring off against each other in a war of attrition. I used MKSAP because my program paid for it. I did fine. I suspect if my program had bought me UW instead, I would have used it and done fine. While there are clear stylistic differences between the 2 Q banks, I don't think that there's any meaningful difference in them and people who swear by one or the other are doing so with limited data.

I felt like the questions were similar to MKSAP's. It was the ONLY high stake exam I took while in medschool/residency without running out of time.

I was saying while taking the exam, there is no freaking way I will fail that thing. I thought I was going to score >70th percentile and to my surprise, I scored in the 40th+ percentile.

 

[pishicat]

I agree with everyone above. 1st time I took it , I relied only on Awesome Review -- did no Q banks... this time around added UWorld. I guess I could have done MKSAP but just didn't have enough time. I didn't find the Questions on the exam to be exact or similar to UWorld, but yes, except for the style of the questions.
One thing that ironically did eat up my time on the exam day was Uptodate. With only 2 minutes per Q, I would suggest only references uptodate if you are absolutely clueless about the question. I found that some the question choices were based on older guidelines...so for example, I would quickly check Uptodate with the 'search magnifier' and it would take me to answer that was a change in guidelines and was quoting CURRENT guidelines on the specific topic..... the multiple choice questions did not have that answer and was clearly wanting you to choose an older guideline...I don't know how recent the Examiners create these questions (i.e., are they 2 years old , 1 year old). There weren't many like that - but enough to make you spin your wheels.

 

[dgdg]

I passed !!! Just got my results. I think the key this time was adding UWorld Q bank to my studies. Last time I only did Awesome Review and it was NOT enough. I did buy MKSAP but never got around to it. I scored close to median -- last time I was a few marks away from "passing" ...so definitely helped to do Questions . The actual exam as most have said, is much much shorter than the UWorld Qbank , but it lets you get used to the style.

Congratulations!!!

Also you assessed the last exam results, then changed your strategy, persevered, and had a huge improvement in your score.
Time for a vacation.

 

[dgdg]

As others have said, prepping ultimately depends on your current fund of knowledge, learning style, and test taking skills.
All can be improved, sufficiently, once you give yourself an honest initial assessment, like with a practice exam in UWorld or NEJM.
Then you can use this thread here to help you get it done.

 

[pishicat]

Congratulations!!!

Also you assessed the last exam results, then changed your strategy, persevered, and had a huge improvement in your score.
Time for a vacation.

Thank you! .... It also helped to use the quote You wrote back to me ...........as my mantra throughout the last 2 months--
you said :
"It ain't about how hard you're hit, it's about how you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward.
Get up!"

somehow that stuck with me 🙂