Hello, long time lurker here finally posting! Anyways as the cycle approaches completion I find myself at a crossroads. I applied to AMCAS and AACOMAS both quite late, pretty much at the deadline for AMCAS and same time for AACOMAS. My results were 0/5 MD acceptances and 1/3 DO acceptances. I was quite content going the DO route but recent threads about the DO route have worried me including the difficulty in the match process and the large expansion of DO schools. Admittedly I should have done more research on this before applying to these schools because prior to reading a lot of these forums the only advice I got from my pre med advisor was that going the MD vs DO route held no real differences aside from the different letters. My cgpa and sgpa are both in the high 3.7's and my MCAT was 513. Should I reapply MD? I have seen varying viewpoints on this, some say declining a DO school can automatically reject you from AMCAS schools whose secondaries ask if you have received an acceptance to any medical school. Would these AMCAS schools that asked that consider my application if I reapplied?
Is Reapplying dangerous or just plain dumb?
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I have a friend who didn't get in until his 3rd time applying, and he's now at a top 15 IM program.
Also have another friend who turned down a mid-tier MD application for "family reasons", did research for a year and then matriculated to Harvard.
If you're having questions before you even start I would strongly consider taking the year off, doing research and then reapplying with your full effort next year. I'm not sure your age, family situation, economic situation or even career goals, but if it was me I'd always wonder what if, especially if I knew that I didn't put my best foot forward the first time.
Also have another friend who turned down a mid-tier MD application for "family reasons", did research for a year and then matriculated to Harvard.
If you're having questions before you even start I would strongly consider taking the year off, doing research and then reapplying with your full effort next year. I'm not sure your age, family situation, economic situation or even career goals, but if it was me I'd always wonder what if, especially if I knew that I didn't put my best foot forward the first time.
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1) Someone would probably kill for a chance at your school, so if you are not willing to go there give it up for them.
2) You can turn this down, but realize this may be your only shot in.
3) This should be in the pre-med forums.
2) You can turn this down, but realize this may be your only shot in.
3) This should be in the pre-med forums.
As far as the friend who turned down MD for family reasons, aren't serious health related reasons for reapplying looked at different than reapplying for my reasons? Also I agree, I would like to put my best foot forward and as far as economics I can survive with decent means for the next year. Do you know anything about if MD schools would reject someone because they declined a DO acceptance?
Does (2) mean that MD schools would automatically reject someone who declined a DO acceptance?
@IsWhat @Aspiring O @sab3156 @AnatomyGrey12 @chizledfrmstone @DrfluffyMD @BorntobeDO? @purva13 @Wjldenver
Hi ^ I saw you all had some insight on this subject on a recent and similar post. Any insight on being automatically rejected to MD schools that know of a past DO acceptance?
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Schools can't really verify any reason you give them for turning down an acceptance. Does it raise eyebrows? Probably, but if you have a good enough "reason" then I assume it'd be fine. I quoted family reasons above because the girl in question was a stud applicant (4.0, 38 MCAT, research, national-level extra curriculars) who just had a bad cycle (interviewed at like 9/top 15 schools). Alot of us thought that she declined her acceptance because she had her sights set on a higher ranked school, and it worked out for her.
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MD schools shouldn't know that you applied to DO school. They're two completely separate applications and have no access to one another. I would reapply. A 513 should get you into a decent MD school. Apply early and apply to more schools this time if you're going to do it though.
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Do you want to be a doctor or not????
@Osteoth when you said she turned down a mid tier MD application does that mean she turned down an acceptance or withdrew her app before an acceptance?
@PhilzCoffeeAddict But some of the secondaries ask if you have ever been accepted to any medical school including osteopathic, so they would know about it that way.
@PhilzCoffeeAddict But some of the secondaries ask if you have ever been accepted to any medical school including osteopathic, so they would know about it that way.
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@PenPro , are you not declining because you want to hold yourself to higher standards? Because you believe X program would help you become a better healthcare provider in the long run ;D? Do you understand what I'm trying to get at? Its about how you sell it. You turned down your DO acceptance because you believed you were capable of more. You applied late, you weren't focused or ready at the time, but you are now. That's why you turned down the acceptance and am now applying with more extracurricular, etc to a larger variety of programs because you feel they offer something that wasn't in your list when you applied the previous year! ;D See what I did there...
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Here comes Dad (Mom?) with the dose of reason...
Turned down a mid-tier MD acceptance, told the school (and the schools next year who asked, and us for that matter) that she had a sick family member that she needed to take care of us. I think at the time she actually told the school she was accepted to that she wasn't sure if she'd even apply the next year because of the uncertain family situation, but she did, and she had a much better cycle.
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With your stats I'm curious what schools you applied to, what your essay looked like, and your general ECs because if your stats didn't carry you I feel like you have issues you haven't shared that need to be rectified to be competitive. You could reapply but I feel like it isn't going to be that simple for you...
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I see. How do you think MD schools would react when I would say that I just want to keep all the doors open for residencies and specialties, as well as not wanting to do OMM or take two board exams? I think they are valid reasons and I would be willing to take a year or even a few off for them.
@It's lupus! For anonymity's sake I'll just say I'm on the east side of the lower 48...was told that my EC's such as volunteering, shadowing, research, etc were all fine including letters. The main thing I'm trying to figure out is if MD schools would consider a candidate who declined a DO acceptance for my listed reasons
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Terribly imo. Gotta be more PC/general than that. Or you have to have a real "big bad" reason like a family problem or health issue. It's a big deal to decline an acceptance.
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I understand that's what you're looking at but it's hard not to wonder why you weren't accepted to more than one school. This part is important in anyone identifying how dangerous it is to reapply. Reputation for reapplying can be spun in a positive way but it doesn't matter if you end up not getting accepted for other issues. For DO schools, I'm only speculating, but I feel like it could blackball you especially if they found out you were holding out for an MD acceptance.
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Could you explain what you mean by "be more PC/general"?
I plan to have my application looked at by other knowledgable people but other medical students and advisors have told me everything seemed fine and they thought the timing was the issue. And I definitely understand DO schools not accepting me because of declining a previous acceptance, there just seems to be no consensus on how MD schools react to this
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How do yo explain to an MD school why you applied DO despite all of this? Sure, not wanting to take COMLEX or do OMM may be valid, but they will ask why you applied DO in the first place and why you didn’t withdraw long before your acceptance.
I did not know of the disadvantages of going DO then. As I said previously, this was a mistake I made.
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You're not likely to get a consensus ever. A few people might even say if you are that worried about being a DO you should drop the acceptance and give it to someone who is confident. Id lean toward this opinion as well. It's the rest of your career. If it doesn't quite measure up the way you want it to you shouldn't do it. Seriously, don't do anything that you feel you are going to regret later.
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Would MD schools know OP previously applied DO?
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I think you made a poor choice applying at the time you did, and I totally understand why you’re asking this question of yourself now.
The facts are:
-MD schools will not know you applied to DO programs.
-You have objectively good chances at MD schools based on your numbers alone
-You did not apply wisely and this is reflected in your results.
-You could turn down a DO acceptance and reasonably expect to be accepted to an MD program, provided your extracurriculars and other application components are up to par
-This decision would put you graduating a year later than you would if you took the DO acceptance now
The factors you have to consider are cost, future opportunities, and the uncertainty that comes with applying again not knowing if you will be accepted or even interviewed at all.
If you are okay with the risk, and you feel the benefit of the MD degree is worth it, then decline your DO acceptance and reapply MD. If not, take this acceptance to medical school and become a doctor starting in the fall.
Best of luck to you!
Edited to add: it turns out OP interviewed and was rejected from in state MD and OOS MD programs. This changes the game, as the MD school most likely to accept you (as a non Californian at least) is your in-state MD program. They would be the ones who most readily overlook your prior app and interview you. They already found an interview spot for you and rejected you, and that is not a good sign for your chances at MD redemption. At this point, you have the same choice to make but now you know that even post-interview, you’re getting turned down for MD. Late application accounts for not getting many interviews, but acceptance post-interview is generally the same no matter when in the rolling cycle you go. Please be wary that yes, your numbers are good, but you may have something glaringly wrong with your app or an insufficiency that is holding you back. There is no guarantee that this will be fixed by a better timed application.
The facts are:
-MD schools will not know you applied to DO programs.
-You have objectively good chances at MD schools based on your numbers alone
-You did not apply wisely and this is reflected in your results.
-You could turn down a DO acceptance and reasonably expect to be accepted to an MD program, provided your extracurriculars and other application components are up to par
-This decision would put you graduating a year later than you would if you took the DO acceptance now
The factors you have to consider are cost, future opportunities, and the uncertainty that comes with applying again not knowing if you will be accepted or even interviewed at all.
If you are okay with the risk, and you feel the benefit of the MD degree is worth it, then decline your DO acceptance and reapply MD. If not, take this acceptance to medical school and become a doctor starting in the fall.
Best of luck to you!
Edited to add: it turns out OP interviewed and was rejected from in state MD and OOS MD programs. This changes the game, as the MD school most likely to accept you (as a non Californian at least) is your in-state MD program. They would be the ones who most readily overlook your prior app and interview you. They already found an interview spot for you and rejected you, and that is not a good sign for your chances at MD redemption. At this point, you have the same choice to make but now you know that even post-interview, you’re getting turned down for MD. Late application accounts for not getting many interviews, but acceptance post-interview is generally the same no matter when in the rolling cycle you go. Please be wary that yes, your numbers are good, but you may have something glaringly wrong with your app or an insufficiency that is holding you back. There is no guarantee that this will be fixed by a better timed application.
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Some of the secondaries for AMCAS schools did include a question asking if I had received any medical school acceptances at all so yes at least these would.
I agree, I have certainly made many mistakes this cycle. However, many of the MD schools ask on secondaries if you have ever been accepted to a school (including osteopathic) so they would know I applied and got accepted to DO programs. I am willing to deal with the lost time, cost, and everything else if MD schools would give me a shot but if MD schools would not consider someone who had already been accepted to DO schools then that would make reapplying an unwise move. Any insight on this?
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How much of a gambler are you? Other posters in this thread have mentioned that you applied late. Did you? If so, how late? Did you get an II at your state school, if you have one?
With only a single accept from three DO schools (and none from the five MD), it's not like the DO world is jumping up and down to get you on board either, much less MD.
So, one of these?
Or two of these?
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If you say no, how can MD schools verify? Not saying you should lie, but if MD schools don't know about DO applications, what is stopping you from saying you didn't turn down acceptances last cycle?
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Think about how wrecked you'd be with the very, very real possibility of never making it back in. This is probably your 1 shot for DO. You're throwing away DO for a chance at MD. Don't do it.
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Maybe you should poll this and get everyone's opinion? I feel there's a lot of back and forth currently.
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To follow up the last two wise posts, turning down a DO accept with none in hand for MD is like turning down your prom date because you'd rather have a shot at the prom queen.
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@Goro I did have an interview at my state MD school and an OOS MD school but I got rejected from both. Agreed it would be a gamble but I am especially considering it with all the issues surrounding the AOA and COCA, while the LCME seems to be more controlled in many respects. I can't control AOA/COCA or the LCME but I can try to go to the governing body that seems to have the best interest of its graduates in mind.
@Lawper I plan to be completely transparent with the application process but it stings knowing that this could raise a red flag
@PhilzCoffeeAddict I'm waiting to get some input from those tagged in post #4 to see if they have any thoughts on it
@Lawper I plan to be completely transparent with the application process but it stings knowing that this could raise a red flag
@PhilzCoffeeAddict I'm waiting to get some input from those tagged in post #4 to see if they have any thoughts on it
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To quote the title of your post, turning down an acceptance would be "just plain dumb." Are you really basing your feelings of the DO route on a few threads?!
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But help me understand since something is missing. If MD schools don't know about DO applications, how would they know whether OP turned down a DO acceptance? Which means OP can say that they didn't turn down acceptances and appear truthful since MD schools have no way to know.
I don't know whether DO acceptances have some ID that is sent to AMCAS or another organization that MD schools find out and verify. If MD schools find out about past DO acceptances, it's important to be honest and say yes. But how would MD schools know this is my question.
@gonnif you're familiar with logistics so thoughts appreciated.
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Again, I can't sugar coat this: You have bigger issues to worry about that poor rotations at a DO school, given your MD interview track record. Is it likely that as a DO you'll end up a vascular surgeon? No. But please drop the conceit that just because you have an MD, you can waltz into any competitive speciality. They're competitive for a reason.
A surgeon? Possibly. A specialist? About 50-50. A PC doc? Also 50-50.
So I'm going to circle back to my original advice. Dump the accept, and let your seat go to someone who wants to be a doctor right now. And you can take your chances next year.
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Sunshine has a very valid point. Reality and SDN are often quite different. Often threads on SDN are as doom and gloom as they get AND we tend to focus on the negative responses rather than those suggesting it isn't that bad. DO or MD you're still likely to get a residency unless your an awful candidate. If you're looking for something competitive then you're going to be working your butt of either way and your initials might be factored in but do you think it's going to matter THAT much? Do you think that a stellar DO candidate is going to be turned down at every residency? I'm going DO and sure I have concerns BUT I'm going to be a doctor and that matters far more FOR ME than the specialty I end up in. But like I said do what leaves you without regret.
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Many schools (MD and DO) ask if you've had other accepts.
My own school asks "where else have you applied this year?"
Do you want OP to lie?
I have noticed that many of the people who talk the most about the consequences of the DO route are DO students. Having gone through the match they would know better than anyone else
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But how would MD schools verify honesty? OP shouldn't lie but there are many bad applicants who do lie. How would MD schools find out about their dishonesty and punish them?
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You really seem to be encouraging him to just lie, if asked, without saying lie. If the secondary asks for it and he says no, that is a lie. If they follow up with a verbal question and says no, it's still a lie. Not ethical. Could he get away with it? It seems likely. Still...
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No, that is just an assumption on your part. The point is there are bad applicants every cycle who regularly lie about past acceptances. How do schools find out about their lies and punish them?
If applicants can get away with lying and get accepted, there is something wrong with the system that needs to be fixed.
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Question: Who are the loudest people in any group?
Answer: the disgruntled ones.
I've been in medicine for 9 years and worked with both MDs and DOs at all different points in their careers. I see equal portions of disgruntled or unhappy doctors on both sides. They cite different reasons for their misfortune. I know, I know, it's all anecdotal, but dare I say that's what props up the vast majority of SDN discussions.
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Rejected after interviews at your state school?
That makes it even more obvious that you need to take the DO.
Turning it down would be stupid. Applying late was stupid. Do something smart this time.
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I want to update what I said:
Based on the new info that you were interviewed and rejected by your in state MD school, you need to take this acceptance and thank your lucky stars.
I thought you applied to only 5 schools and didn’t interview at all.
Based on the new info that you were interviewed and rejected by your in state MD school, you need to take this acceptance and thank your lucky stars.
I thought you applied to only 5 schools and didn’t interview at all.
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If you have multiple post II MD rejections I would just take the DO acceptance. If you were getting a lot of MD post II waitlists that would be a different story.
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Agreed with above. If you had 0 interviews then we could potentially chalk it up to applying late. But with 2 MD interviews and not even 1 waitlist, that’s a red flag. They straight-up rejected you? I’d say take the DO acceptance and be proud of your achievement!
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Thanks for this important information, as it shows it's necessary to be honest and report past acceptances should OP decide to reapply. But from recent posts, it's probably wiser for OP to stick with the DO acceptance and move on.
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Once in a while my brother and I go to the casino and play blackjack at the $25 minimum tables. We always have an agreement - as soon as we either win or lose $50, we stop and walk away. Invariably, one of us will win $50 in two hands and want to let it ride, and the other one has to bring them back down to earth. So, my friend, it's time to walk away. You've got a DO acceptance and that's awesome. Don't fly too close to the sun because the house always wins in the end.
Just wanted to pop in and share my story OP
During the 2017 cycle I applied to many many MDs and three DOs. I didn’t receive any MD interviews and received two DO interviews. I got accepted into a state DO and declined the out of state interview.
Everyone knows the stigma around DOs and how it’s “harder” to get residencies (although if you really want something and work hard, nothing will hold you back, but that’s another story). Anyway so I really did not want to go to the DO for this reason including other reasons that probably only pertain to me. So I contacted the DO school and asked them if they could hold my seat for a year, they said yes. I studied really hard for the MCAT, improved my application, and reapplied for the 2018 cycle. Ended up this cycle with 5 in state MD interviews and an acceptance to my top choice. Nothing ever came up about my DO acceptance. I called them and said thank you for holding my seat but I’m going else where. They said congratulations and good luck. Clean and easy.
Really sit there and think about what you want OP. This is your career and your future, it really doesn’t matter what any strangers on the internet have to say. If something isn’t sitting right with you and you wanna try again, go for it. Good luck!
During the 2017 cycle I applied to many many MDs and three DOs. I didn’t receive any MD interviews and received two DO interviews. I got accepted into a state DO and declined the out of state interview.
Everyone knows the stigma around DOs and how it’s “harder” to get residencies (although if you really want something and work hard, nothing will hold you back, but that’s another story). Anyway so I really did not want to go to the DO for this reason including other reasons that probably only pertain to me. So I contacted the DO school and asked them if they could hold my seat for a year, they said yes. I studied really hard for the MCAT, improved my application, and reapplied for the 2018 cycle. Ended up this cycle with 5 in state MD interviews and an acceptance to my top choice. Nothing ever came up about my DO acceptance. I called them and said thank you for holding my seat but I’m going else where. They said congratulations and good luck. Clean and easy.
Really sit there and think about what you want OP. This is your career and your future, it really doesn’t matter what any strangers on the internet have to say. If something isn’t sitting right with you and you wanna try again, go for it. Good luck!
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Ahh yes, anecdotes and outliers should encourage you to take the more risky path. I know Lotto winners, but playing the Lotto is not a good retirement strategy.
In case you haven't noticed, OP already has decent stats, and got rejected outright by all five interviewing MD schools. His/her problems aren't with interviewing late.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Adcoms do wonder "Why hasn't this good candidate been accepted previously?" And one can tell in AMCAS if someone is a reapplicant. Something to do with the numbering system.
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What's to say you'd do well enough in med school and your STEP1 scores to qualify for those competitive specialties you want? You can go MD and score a 212 and be SOL for just about everything except for IM, FM, psych? Or you can go DO and score a 240 and have a legitimate shot at the competitive fields. Sure you have disadvantages of going DO but not as great as overcoming a low STEP score.
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There are people with higher MCAT scores than yours who have failed to gain an MD acceptance. A 513 isn't a guarantee you're going to get in anywhere. Does it give you a good chance? Sure, but it's not set in stone.
At the very least, you're losing a year of physician pay at the end of your career by skipping a year and trying again. At the worst, you don't get in MD next cycle either, and have to reapply DO with the disadvantage of previously having withdrawn a DO acceptance, and that would be a major problem. I'd just take the DO acceptance and run, unless you're planning on going into neurosurgery or something else ridiculously competitive. I know a crap ton of DOs that don't do family med - nephrologists, cardiologists, neurologists, pulm/ccm, GI, even interventional cards. SDN most definitely exaggerates how hard it is to get into a specialty as a DO.
At the very least, you're losing a year of physician pay at the end of your career by skipping a year and trying again. At the worst, you don't get in MD next cycle either, and have to reapply DO with the disadvantage of previously having withdrawn a DO acceptance, and that would be a major problem. I'd just take the DO acceptance and run, unless you're planning on going into neurosurgery or something else ridiculously competitive. I know a crap ton of DOs that don't do family med - nephrologists, cardiologists, neurologists, pulm/ccm, GI, even interventional cards. SDN most definitely exaggerates how hard it is to get into a specialty as a DO.
