Is residency really that bad?

[DarthNeurology]

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Its a red herring to say people continue to do q3 call because of the privilege or because they love what they are doing.

People have all sorts of motivations, for some its a means to an end, for others, many of us who considered quitting, the looming debt and no other way to pay it off means you kee going regardless of how miserable you are.

Do not assume people continue in medicine because they love it, but consider that some do because they feel trapped.

Doing q3-4 call for a while also becomes addictive or at least a normal way of life, i.e. people get used to working through the night, being post-call even though it sucks

 

[Faebinder]

Doing q3-4 call for a while also becomes addictive or at least a normal way of life, i.e. people get used to working through the night, being post-call even though it sucks

No big paragraphs? 😉

 

[medicinesux]

Doing q3-4 call for a while also becomes addictive or at least a normal way of life, i.e. people get used to working through the night, being post-call even though it sucks

Speak for yourself! Better yet, Wake up from your medically institutionalized brainwashing...Working 30 hrs straight without getting a wink of shut eye is NOT NORMAL. I repeat, working 30 hrs straight is NOT NORMAL. Oh, and my body never gets used to it...my inner soul protests to no avail to this toxic onslaught called q3-q4 because it is anti-human.

 

[Blade28]

Doing q3-4 call for a while also becomes addictive or at least a normal way of life, i.e. people get used to working through the night, being post-call even though it sucks

I don't know...for me, after several weeks straight of Q3 call, I'm pretty much clinging to the last strands of sanity.

I don't know if you can ever get "used to it."

 

[Winged Scapula]

Doing q3-4 call for a while also becomes addictive or at least a normal way of life, i.e. people get used to working through the night, being post-call even though it sucks

Hmmm...given that I've done more call and worked longer hours (being a product of pre-80 hrs) than you and many posters here (save docB), let me divest you of those assumptions.

I know of no one who finds call addictive.

I know of no one who finds it normal, although it may be usual for them; it is not normal.

You do get used to it; I was much less tired when I was on call more frequently than when I did it q7. But again, no one is doing q3 call for the love of it, but rather because its what they "signed on for" or they feel they have no other options.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Oh me me me. (raising hand)

Do you want to post that as a poll for everyone PGY2 and up (Why do you stay in medicine? A you feel trapped, B any other reason) or do you think it would scare everyone too much?:D

You're cruel.

Remember people are starting to think about applying for residency, for medical school, etc. - we need them to take care of us when we retire!

 

[buckley]

I don't know...for me, after several weeks straight of Q3 call, I'm pretty much clinging to the last strands of sanity.

I don't know if you can ever get "used to it."

Amen 🙂

 

[docB]

we need them to take care of us when we retire!

Not me. I'm DNR.😉

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not me. I'm DNR.😉

What is that - Do Not Retire?😀

 

[Faebinder]

Well, I just wanted to say.... as an intern you are a trained machine... life sucks. Even after all this medical college education and undergrad +/- grad education, you work harder but earn less than:

1) Court Reporter $59,970.

2) Fashion Designer $69,270.

3) Elementary School Principal $79,310.

4) Astronomer $95,740.

 

[DarthNeurology]

Hmmm...given that I've done more call and worked longer hours (being a product of pre-80 hrs) than you and many posters here (save docB), let me divest you of those assumptions.

I know of no one who finds call addictive.

I know of no one who finds it normal, although it may be usual for them; it is not normal.

You do get used to it;I was much less tired when I was on call more frequently than when I did it q7. But again, no one is doing q3 call for the love of it, but rather because its what they "signed on for" or they feel they have no other options.

I have worked q 3 with real call hours, i.e. 36-38 hours (those nicely planned work hours rules don't apply to attendings or medical students), maybe you have done q 2 hours or maybe more call as an attending and I did find this call exhausting and I so amazingly happy when call is only 28-30 hours i.e. "We'll try to get you out after sign-out or by noon" that I can do call no problem. I think q6 call is pretty bad as you have to go in and out of putting your body on alert for call when compared to q3-4. But we (or at least some of us) have all bragged about how much call this or that rotation was, so I think some people like it to some degree i.e. the idea of being an attending trauma surgeon on call every 4 night or something, but of course when we are on call it is bad, so I think call is addicting. I am sure I am not the only one who has found call addicting as when you are not on call for a month it is great, but I feel a little lazy just sitting around at home every night around 8 pm woundering what is happening at the hospital. I get symptoms of call withdrawl on "Golden Weekends" i.e. I feel very unproductive, feel guilty for not being at hospital even though I don't have to be, missing the call culture, i.e. the hospital really is a different place at night, free food, time to look at charts and evaluate what is going on with patients, limited departments open so have to plot things out differently,

Evaluation of attempt to divest me of my assumptions, err limited med student experience: Failed, heh heh. Based on Winged's posts I would say that she is on call when she posted on this thread?

 

[DarthNeurology]

No big paragraphs? 😉

My fingers hurt last week from too much typing!🙁

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have worked q 3 with real call hours, i.e. 36-38 hours (those nicely planned work hours rules don't apply to attendings or medical students), maybe you have done q 2 hours or maybe more call as an attending and I did find this call exhausting and I so amazingly happy when call is only 28-30 hours i.e. "We'll try to get you out after sign-out or by noon" that I can do call no problem.

My point was two-fold:

1) yes, I have done extended stretches of q2 call;

2) yes, I have done extended call beyond 36 hrs; 42 was not uncommon

3) yes, I have done extended stays in the hospital, 3 days at a time, without going home,

4) your call as a medical student is radically different than call as a resident. Therefore, I don't think you are qualified to talk about what call is like. The psychogical stress that accompanies being the responsible person on call adds a great deal to the experience that as a student you cannot understand yet.

I think q6 call is pretty bad as you have to go in and out of putting your body on alert for call when compared to q3-4. But we (or at least some of us) have all bragged about how much call this or that rotation was, so I think some people like it to some degree i.e. the idea of being an attending trauma surgeon on call every 4 night or something, but of course when we are on call it is bad, so I think call is addicting.

I disagree with your interpretation. There is a lot of bragging that goes on (and one could presume my comments above were an example) and I'll tell you, that regardless of how much call one does, how macho one is, there are very few people who enjoy call or whom are addicted to it. Just because you try to top the next guy with how many hours you worked doesn't mean you are addicted to the experience. It is simply another tapemeasure people use to show their presumed value.

I am sure I am not the only one who has found call addicting as when you are not on call for a month it is great, but I feel a little lazy just sitting around at home every night around 8 pm woundering what is happening at the hospital. I get symptoms of call withdrawl on "Golden Weekends" i.e. I feel very unproductive, feel guilty for not being at hospital even though I don't have to be, missing the call culture, i.e. the hospital really is a different place at night, free food, time to look at charts and evaluate what is going on with patients, limited departments open so have to plot things out differently,

You are not addicted to call, you are addicted to the hospital. These are two entirely different things. The latter is common especially in students, the former is not. Many people find themselves enjoying being in the hospital, seeing what is going on, etc. Heck, as a med student I was in the hospital every weekend and after hours, hanging around the ORs, even when I wasn't on call, because I enjoyed it too. You do not have to be on call to do so.

I still stand by my assertion that a few weeks here and there as a student doing call does not begin to compare to years of q3 call, with the added responsibility.

Evaluation of attempt to divest me of my assumptions, err limited med student experience: Failed, heh heh. Based on Winged's posts I would say that she is on call when she posted on this thread?

Sorry to pull rank here...but I'm sorry, as a medical student you do not understand what call is like. Get back to me in a few years of real call (not Pediatric Neurology call) and tell me if I was wrong. And yes, I was on call when I wrote this thread, I am always on call but fortunately, I no longer take in house call for my service. But I am very close with several trauma surgeons who do and believe me, they may enjoy a good case but they do not enjoy nor are addicted to call. They would much rather be home, out to dinner, watching a movie, whatever, but they understand its the life they chose.

It would be just as disingenuous for me to talk about what its like to be a Pediatrician. I have no idea just as you have little idea of what years of call, and real responsibility is when on call.

 

[GoodMonkey]

The days I get to operate ... make the really bad days not smart so much.

seriously, these are like my little nuggets tossed about to keep my emotional rollercoaster from diving off a cliff.

i am so ready to be done with intern year. i swear, doing an intern year at a county hospital should automatically grant you an MSW, a degree in physical therapy and another in human resources.

 

[TRAMD]

One thing to realize is that practice usually isn't any better than residency except salary-wise.

 

[maxbaner]

One thing to realize is that practice usually isn't any better than residency except salary-wise.

Are you referring to the hours or everything?🙁

 

[Winged Scapula]

Are you referring to the hours or everything?🙁

Yes.

Today I left home at 700 and got home at 845 pm.

Not an everyday occurence, but not infrequent either.

 

[buckley]

It was actually in clerkship when I assisted in a soooooper loooong surgery (14 hours and I was a reliever!) that I realized I needed to see the sun even a glimpse from the medicine wards was better that being totally disoriented by the OR lights. it's like jet lag, you know...hahahaha

 

[digfast]

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[Buzz Me]

I would be on Q3 or Q4 "call" with the residents but I always knew that it wasn't real call. I'm not looking forward to real call...

Very, very true.

 

[Top Gun]

Overall I would say I enjoy residency, even though the hours suck, and many times I would like more time to do things like go out to dinner, go to the museum, etc... But I've also learned a ton in residency and have grown much more confident in my skills. As a third year, I actually have it pretty good. I get more golden weekends than I ever did as an intern or second-year, I get a lot more say in managing patients, and I don't get incessant pages anymore. When I get paged, its to do something like screen a patient for MICU admission, not to renew IV fluids, renew meds, or sign a restraint order. I would say certain things about residency suck, but in general, its worth it.

 

[IMCountryGal]

Gawd, I am NOT looking forward to starting residency, let alone being the bottom of the totem pole again..

I am getting lazy... arg 😱

 

[odieoh]

Well, I just wanted to say.... as an intern you are a trained machine... life sucks. Even after all this medical college education and undergrad +/- grad education, you work harder but earn less than:

1) Court Reporter $59,970.

2) Fashion Designer $69,270.

3) Elementary School Principal $79,310.

4) Astronomer $95,740.

Yeah but fast forward 10 years-- for all these professions they'll be making MAYBE 25% more. Interns will be making 500%+ more. Thats the difference. Put up with the BS early, profit later. Whether the BS is worth the payoff in the end is debatable, but its not really fair to compare intern salary to other careers.

 

[digfast]

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