Is Residency salary really low?

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Justiii

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I know you are racking up the debt in med. school. But I hear residency salaries average 35-45k, more or less, right? Isn't that more than a school teacher and various other careers? In big cities, is this not enough? Other than bills and living expenses, would there be other things I'd have to pay? Would I have to start paying back my debt during residency?
 
I read in a book by Dr. Iserson that residency salaries range from up 20s to high 70s.

I know some PGY-5 and up that make about 70k+ yearly. Not sure about loan repayment. I would assume you wouldn't be able to defer the loans during residency.
 
First year resident salary is basically $50k. I'm not sure, but it may go up slightly with every year. In high cost of living areas, it can be more like $52k, and in low cost areas, maybe $48k.

You can put your loans in deferment and not pay anything during this time if you want, or you could make interest payments, or you could enroll in programs that allow you to make payments based on your income level. Basically, you can do whatever you're comfortable with. 50k isn't poverty, but it's not great considering you're at the age where you may have a family to support, and maybe close to a quarter mil in debt. Not everyone decides to put their entire life on hold until they become an attending in their mid-30s. Kids, spouses, mortgages etc. happen. Obviously, everyone's situation is different so whether or not you feel comfortable with that salary really depends. The residents I know don't worry about it too much.
 
Justiii said:
I know you are racking up the debt in med. school. But I hear residency salaries average 35-45k, more or less, right? Isn't that more than a school teacher and various other careers? In big cities, is this not enough? Other than bills and living expenses, would there be other things I'd have to pay? Would I have to start paying back my debt during residency?
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Your questions are funny.
 
I think a better question is, can you afford to lease a Mercedes on a residents salary????
 
Gotta supplement with the stock market 🙂



....which is ironically also the quickest way to lose it all.
 
Residents make around 50k/year.
It's not much but it sure beats the negative 50k/year of MS3 and MS4.
That being said, where you live will make a big impact on how well off you feel. If you live in Ohio, 50k will make you rich. If you live in the LA area (feel so bad for those of you), you'll be almost starving when your apartment will cost 2k/month.
 
Justiii said:
I know you are racking up the debt in med. school. But I hear residency salaries average 35-45k, more or less, right? Isn't that more than a school teacher and various other careers? In big cities, is this not enough? Other than bills and living expenses, would there be other things I'd have to pay? Would I have to start paying back my debt during residency?
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Considering your student loans will be accruing tens of thousands of dollars in interest a year, 45-50k pretax is not a whole hell of a lot.
 
FastRunner2024 said:
Residents make around 50k/year.
It's not much but it sure beats the negative 50k/year of MS3 and MS4.
That being said, where you live will make a big impact on how well off you feel. If you live in Ohio, 50k will make you rich. If you live in the LA area (feel so bad for those of you), you'll be almost starving when your apartment will cost 2k/month.
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That's the thing that struck me the most when I looked resident salaries up. They really don't seem to vary much based on location. 50k seems great where I live - most families around here live on less than that. sAlso it would really depend on your situation, how well you handle money, and if you have a family. Having kids would obviously increase your cost of living, but if you have a significant other and you're both working it wouldn't be too bad.
 
Annabell Lee said:
That's the thing that struck me the most when I looked resident salaries up. They really don't seem to vary much based on location. 50k seems great where I live - most families around here live on less than that. sAlso it would really depend on your situation, how well you handle money, and if you have a family. Having kids would obviously increase your cost of living, but if you have a significant other and you're both working it wouldn't be too bad.
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I know some NYC programs offer subsidized housing. I imagine a few programs in other large cities might do the same.
 
Brother is making $52,000 during first year around the metropolitan area. So I would expect to get $50,000+ and it goes up slightly per year.
 
FastRunner2024 said:
Residents make around 50k/year.
It's not much but it sure beats the negative 50k/year of MS3 and MS4.
That being said, where you live will make a big impact on how well off you feel. If you live in Ohio, 50k will make you rich. If you live in the LA area (feel so bad for those of you), you'll be almost starving when your apartment will cost 2k/month.
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I wouldn't say 50k will make you feel rich in Ohio. It's program/area dependent. Some programs make you cover a good portion of your insurance, while others are in the more expensive cities of OH. I do agree about California though, I had friends put programs much lower on their rol due to the col.
 
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"If your monthly IBR payment amount doesn’t cover the interest that accrues (accumulates) on your loans each month, the government will pay your unpaid accrued interest on your Direct Subsidized Loans or Subsidized Federal Stafford Loans (and on the subsidized portion of your Direct or FFEL Consolidation Loans) for up to three consecutive years from the date you began repaying your loan under IBR."

Does this work like a mortgage repayment whereby you are first paying off most of the interest before eating into the principle?

Is interest accruement halted during these 3 yrs of IBR repayment? That's what I've heard but this excerpt seems to suggest otherwise.
 
oceanmist said:
"If your monthly IBR payment amount doesn’t cover the interest that accrues (accumulates) on your loans each month, the government will pay your unpaid accrued interest on your Direct Subsidized Loans or Subsidized Federal Stafford Loans (and on the subsidized portion of your Direct or FFEL Consolidation Loans) for up to three consecutive years from the date you began repaying your loan under IBR."

Does this work like a mortgage repayment whereby you are first paying off most of the interest before eating into the principle?

Is interest accruement halted during these 3 yrs of IBR repayment? That's what I've heard but this excerpt seems to suggest otherwise.
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I believe subsidized loans are done, only unsubsidized are being offered to students now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
IL Pre Med said:
I believe subsidized loans are done, only unsubsidized are being offered to students now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Yes that's correct. So from the minute the loans are disbursed into the student account (say during first semester MS1) they begin accruing interest.

Hopefully it's clear from my post that I'm asking about repayment during residency through the IBR program. Current residents who are or were considering enrolling in this program may have insight into these questions.
 
oceanmist said:
Yes that's correct. So from the minute the loans are disbursed into the student account (say during first semester MS1) they begin accruing interest.

Hopefully it's clear from my post that I'm asking about repayment during residency through the IBR program. Current residents who are or were considering enrolling in this program may have insight into these questions.
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Your quote was referring to subsidized loans so this wouldn't even apply to us, government wouldn't help us out with any interest during residency.
 
IL Pre Med said:
Your quote was referring to subsidized loans so this wouldn't even apply to us, government wouldn't help us out with any interest during residency.
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Some loans from schools are distributed and subsidized internally. Even through residency and fellowship. This seems to generally be the schools with more money. People may dislike it, but its definitely a bit more incentive to get into the spots.
 
rfenzo said:
Some loans from schools are distributed and subsidized internally. Even through residency and fellowship. This seems to generally be the schools with more money. People may dislike it, but its definitely a bit more incentive to get into the spots.
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That is great news, hadn't heard of it. Is that just top schools in the country or does it include state schools as well?
 
oceanmist said:
Yes that's correct. So from the minute the loans are disbursed into the student account (say during first semester MS1) they begin accruing interest.

Hopefully it's clear from my post that I'm asking about repayment during residency through the IBR program. Current residents who are or were considering enrolling in this program may have insight into these questions.
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Grad student loans are no longer subsidized on the Stafford or PLUS end. You will accrue interest debt if your IBR or PAYE payment is lower than the interest amount. From day 1 of med school, your loans will accrue interest, so adjust your financial plans accordingly.
 
IL Pre Med said:
Your quote was referring to subsidized loans so this wouldn't even apply to us, government wouldn't help us out with any interest during residency.
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IBR includes unsubsidized loans as well as those that are subsidized.
 
IL Pre Med said:
That is great news, hadn't heard of it. Is that just top schools in the country or does it include state schools as well?
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Such programs are basically confined to top 10 schools, and apply to limited numbers of students. Don't plan on being one of the lucky ones.
 
oceanmist said:
IBR includes unsubsidized loans as well as those that are subsidized.
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Why would you do IBR instead of PAYE? PAYE doesn't have the interest benefit, but your loans are paid off in 20 years instead of 25 and you only have to pay 10% of your income as a monthly payment.
 
Mad Jack said:
Such programs are basically confined to top 10 schools, and apply to limited numbers of students. Don't plan on being one of the lucky ones.
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I would say top 20-25 more than top 10. Once you get into those schools, I'd say distribution is fairly prevalent. But yes, it is limited and you do need to get into those schools.

IL Pre Med said:
That is great news, hadn't heard of it. Is that just top schools in the country or does it include state schools as well?
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No idea about state schools, but I would guess most do not.
 
Mad Jack said:
Why would you do IBR instead of PAYE? PAYE doesn't have the interest benefit, but your loans are paid off in 20 years instead of 25 and you only have to pay 10% of your income as a monthly payment.
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Unless you choose a PCP specialty it's unlikely you'll benefit from either program.
 
rfenzo said:
I would say top 20-25 more than top 10. Once you get into those schools, I'd say distribution is fairly prevalent. But yes, it is limited and you do need to get into those schools.



No idea about state schools, but I would guess most do not.
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FWIW, my school is an unranked state school and has this. The number of students who get it is pretty limited though.
 
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wholeheartedly said:
It's about 51,500 for PGY1 and goes up about 2K each year. Good benefits. Population of about 110,000 here.
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You live "beyond the wall" and there's a population of 110k? Is that including the Others?
 
With my first year residency salary, I am gonna buy 50k lottery tickets and win. Epic life plan if everything goes according to plan
 
Mad Jack said:
Why would you do IBR instead of PAYE? PAYE doesn't have the interest benefit, but your loans are paid off in 20 years instead of 25 and you only have to pay 10% of your income as a monthly payment.
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There are eligibility requirements that prevent some people from doing PAYE. For instance, if you have loans from before Oct 2007, you can't do PAYE. There are specific loans (some of the FEEL loans) that are not eligible, although sometimes they can be made eligible through consolidation. I wouldn't worry about the specifics right now, b/c there has been a lot of talk about these programs being changed due essentially to the excessive amount of forgiveness they offer. Details will likely change by the time you're enrolling in your repayment.
 
Plecopotamus said:
There are eligibility requirements that prevent some people from doing PAYE. For instance, if you have loans from before Oct 2007, you can't do PAYE. There are specific loans (some of the FEEL loans) that are not eligible, although sometimes they can be made eligible through consolidation. I wouldn't worry about the specifics right now, b/c there has been a lot of talk about these programs being changed due essentially to the excessive amount of forgiveness they offer. Details will likely change by the time you're enrolling in your repayment.
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Ah, but the terms of your PAYE depend on what was on your initial MPN. Mine has PAYE, future ones may not. But it's a legally binding contract and they can't decide to not honor it once you take the money. For students down the line, that may be a problem, but for people who've already signed their MPNs, it's smooth sailing. My bet is 90% or more of pre-allo does not have a loan from before october '07, so that wouldn't be a problem for them either.
 
If you divide your resident salary (~50K/year) by hours worked (80hrs/week for 48 weeks) you get roughly $14/hr. It's up to the individual to decide if that qualifies as "really low".
 
Mad Jack said:
Ah, but the terms of your PAYE depend on what was on your initial MPN. Mine has PAYE, future ones may not. But it's a legally binding contract and they can't decide to not honor it once you take the money. For students down the line, that may be a problem, but for people who've already signed their MPNs, it's smooth sailing. My bet is 90% or more of pre-allo does not have a loan from before october '07, so that wouldn't be a problem for them either.
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You were asking why anybody would do one vs the other, so I explained. I know it's not likely in this population. People who are in med school who have taken extra time (a year off, a research year, etc.) do have some of the ineligible loan types.

My comments about the details were intended for the pre-meds on here who aren't already starting, b/c my understanding is that it would not be surprising to anybody if things changed in the near future.

Also, does the MPN protects you for loans you will take out during the whole course of your medical education . . . I was under the impression that they could change the repayment options for loans during upcoming years.
 
Mad Jack said:
I think you're talking about PSLF.
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Eeks. Sorry. Too many acronyms. Just went to PAYE in my brain after writing the other post.
I still don't understand why he doesn't think PAYE is of benefit to non-PCPs?
 
Plecopotamus said:
You were asking why anybody would do one vs the other, so I explained. I know it's not likely in this population.
My comments about the details were intended for the pre-meds on here, sorry. Also, does the MPN protects you for loans you will take out during the whole course of your medical education . . . I was under the impression that they could change the repayment options for loans during upcoming years.
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Once you sign the MPN, it is set in stone. That is why if you have outstanding loans from before October 2007, you can't do PAYE- your MPN was signed before PAYE existed, thus it wasn't included in your terms, even if 90% of your loans were taken out after 2007.
 
Plecopotamus said:
What are you talking about?
Why would you not benefit from PAYE if you're not doing primary care?
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Copy and paste from another thread:

circulus vitios said:
Have you run the numbers on IBR, PAYE, or PSLF? You're not really coming out ahead if you specialize. Assuming you're single and specialize in something with a $250k starting salary, the standard single deduction will put your AGI at $243,800. 150% of the federal poverty level for a single person is $17,235, making your monthly discretionary income $18,880/mo. Let's assume a $250k loan balance at an average of 6.8% interest.

IBR: 15% of your discretionary income for 25 years ==> $2832/mo
PAYE: 10% of your discretionary income for 20 years ==> $1888/mo
PSLF: $57k cap on forgiveness is still up in the air, so no point in even considering it right now.

With a standard 10 year payment plan, you will make 120 payments of $2877 for a total of $345k in payments.
With the projected IBR payments, you will make 123 payments of $2832 for a total of $347k in payments.
With the projected PAYE payments, you will make 246 payments of $1888 for a total of $463k in payments.

With IBR your loans will be paid off about 10 years into the 25 year period, so you will receive no forgiveness.
PAYE yields forgiveness at 240 payments so you will be ahead six payments ($11,328 plus interest, which will be treated as taxable income) at the cost of making additional payments that total about $120k.
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Makati2008 said:
I wouldn't say 50k will make you feel rich in Ohio. It's program/area dependent. Some programs make you cover a good portion of your insurance, while others are in the more expensive cities of OH. I do agree about California though, I had friends put programs much lower on their rol due to the col.
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Yeah I was thinking about suburban ohio. I had some friends match to Kettering Ohio (wonderful IM program btw). They make 56k/year, get free food from the hospital, with apartments there as cheap as 300-500/month. Also the program does not abuse its residents. The do like 60hr/week on wards months!
I'd imagine it won't be that nice in cinicinatii, Columbus, or Cleveland.
 
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