"Is that a three-year program?"

[WoodyJI]

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This is a question I've gotten more than once, and I'm curious if anybody on here knows when optometry became a four-year program. I have friends in med school, and most of them are a little surprised to learn that optometry residencies exist (especially the ones who weren't sure how many years the program requires).

To be fair, I'm positive that students in every health care profession run into these types of questions--but optometry is a relatively young/small profession, so that may explain why we get these types of questions more often than others. When did our colleges start offering residencies? What do you think is next for optometry?

 

[JeffChou]

This is a question I've gotten more than once, and I'm curious if anybody on here knows when optometry became a four-year program. I have friends in med school, and most of them are a little surprised to learn that optometry residencies exist (especially the ones who weren't sure how many years the program requires).

To be fair, I'm positive that students in every health care profession run into these types of questions--but optometry is a relatively young/small profession, so that may explain why we get these types of questions more often than others. When did our colleges start offering residencies? What do you think is next for optometry?

Optometry has been around for quite a while but has just taken time to develop into what it is today.

You can find some tidbits of information here: [http://www.opt.indiana.edu/people/faculty/graphics/goss/opthx.pdf]

Also, in NECO's college catalog, there are some interesting facts from the pages regarding history. NECO has had a 4 year curriculum since 1939. I don't know about the other schools, but I think it would be safe to say that almost all currently practicing optometrists in the US have gone through a 4 year curriculum. I'm not as convinced that the age of the profession is a large a factor as size is in public knowledge of the OD curriculum.
[http://www.neco.edu/pubs/general/Neco.edu_catalog.pdf]

As for residencies, the first formally accredited one year residency began in 1976 (pulled from http://www.opted.org/residencies_faq.cfm).

 

[WoodyJI]

Alright, thanks for the info!

I'm going to read through and see if optometry ever actually was a three-year deal, or if we just went straight from a two-year program up to a four-year.

So if the age of the profession isn't the crux behind the lack of public knowledge, what would you say it would be? Perhaps the size? Medicine and dentistry are both larger professions. In my personal experience, I grew up going to the pediatric dentist, but passed school screenings, so I never saw an OD until senior year of college. I'm not sure if I hadn't gone to OSU if I'd know what an optometrist is yet.😱

I think it's sort of interesting how dentistry is very important in the early years for fluoride treatment...maybe the way we achieve public education is by explaining how presbyopia is a good enough reason to go in and get the bifocals, but more importantly be screened during the exam for systemic diseases (which older people are more susceptible to). Sort of the inverse of dentistry as far as when the patients become familiar with the profession. Just a thought...

 

[jefguth]

A timeline...

late 1700 first medical acts passed
1868 first state dental act passed
1886 Eugene Landolt becomes the first to call himself an "optometrist"
1895 every state has a medical act
1900 every state has a dental act
1901 Minnesota becomes the first state to pass an optometry act
1908 NY state passes its own optometry act
1925 all states and provinces in North America have an optometry act

early 1900's there are as many as 60 private optometry schools in the USA, a few survive to become NECO, SCCO, ICO
1910 Columbia University establishes an optometry curricula
1915 Ohio State University offers first 4 year course
1923 PCO offers the first doctor of optometry degree
1935 PCO is the first to require a 4 year program

from University of Waterloo Optometry 100 - history and orientation class notes and http://www.opt.indiana.edu/people/faculty/graphics/goss/opthx.pdf

 

[rpames]

Optometry was originally a 2 day course jewelers took to learn how to adjust and fix frames. Then it became a week class, then a couple week class, then a year. It was a two year program many place and then I know at ICO it was a 3 year degree at ICO until about 1965. In about 1966 or 1967, they made it a 4 year degree. My father graduated in 1972, so he started in 1968. He knew a guy who started in the last 3 year program but had to repeat the year. That put him in the 4 year program, therefore, what would have taken 3 years, took 5 years! That would have sucked. Our profession is always changing and evolving. It is pretty neat to see where it came from.

 

[WoodyJI]

Our profession is always changing and evolving. It is pretty neat to see where it came from.

I agree, and I'm also curious as to what's next. The deal with residencies and licensure right now doesn't seem to make sense. We can specialize in things but not officially call ourselves specialists, and we still don't have uniform national licensure--only licensure by endorsement. I'm less interested in the expansion of scope, but more concerned with solidifying the base that we have. What about this over-supply issue? And public perception--how do we improve that? Will plans like InfantSee really spread patient awareness, or will it fizzle?

 

[bournehall]

Just a side not, kinda along this line. At the U of Tenn Dental School it was a three year program for those entering in 1976. I have a childhood buddy who got in after 3 years and finished Dental School in 3 years and graduated in 1979. My brother who is the same age and was in the same class got in after 4 years and his Dental School was 4 years and he graduated in 1981.

This is a question I've gotten more than once, and I'm curious if anybody on here knows when optometry became a four-year program. I have friends in med school, and most of them are a little surprised to learn that optometry residencies exist (especially the ones who weren't sure how many years the program requires).

To be fair, I'm positive that students in every health care profession run into these types of questions--but optometry is a relatively young/small profession, so that may explain why we get these types of questions more often than others. When did our colleges start offering residencies? What do you think is next for optometry?

 

[rodomon]

If you call an OD program a 4-year degree, you should call an MD program a 7-year degree.

Most OD programs have 3 years of actual courses, with the 4th year being almost exclusively focused on seeing patients (like an MD residency). Most MD programs have 4 years of actual courses with ~3 years of residency. So call OD 3 and MD 4 or OD 4 and MD 7.

Since most of the general public considers medical school to be 4 years, I think calling optometry a 4-year program is fairly deceiving.

I'm not trying to disparage optometry (I'm in it myself and having more schooling doesn't make someone a smarter or better person), but there is definitely less training involved compared to becoming a medical doctor.

 

[Ryan_eyeball]

I agree, and I'm also curious as to what's next. The deal with residencies and licensure right now doesn't seem to make sense. We can specialize in things but not officially call ourselves specialists, and we still don't have uniform national licensure--only licensure by endorsement. I'm less interested in the expansion of scope, but more concerned with solidifying the base that we have. What about this over-supply issue? And public perception--how do we improve that? Will plans like InfantSee really spread patient awareness, or will it fizzle?

I didn't attend school to work for free with InfantSee. When you perform your first eye exam for free for like Gift of Sight and patients are wearing Tommy Hilfiger, and talking on state of the art cell phones I gave up on that fast. Friend A to Friend B "oh yeah, you can go get a free eye exam". Do dentists give out free dental exams, or free vaccinations by your PCP?

Your current patient has a $0 copay with a 6 month old. Do Retinoscopy, EOM's, Gross CT if possible, pupils, Handheld SLexam, cyclo, and direct or BIO on the 6 month old. Perform acuities with Preferential acuities. How hard is that? They are the easiest patients, with nice large pupils.

 

[WoodyJI]

Since most of the general public considers medical school to be 4 years, I think calling optometry a 4-year program is fairly deceiving.

I don't know what you're talking about. Both the MD and OD degrees are awarded to the student after 4 years of study—I think that's pretty straightforward. MD's in residency (and OD's who have chosen residency, for that matter) have completed their program—they're not students anymore. Doctors in residency are practicing, and are fully liable for all of their actions—they can be sued for malpractice apart from their attending.

So call OD 3 and MD 4 or OD 4 and MD 7

You can't get yourself a doctor of Optometry Degree in three years anyway, so I don't even know why as an optometry student, you would offer up such a self-defeating ultimatum on these forums. Where does this inferiority complex stem from? These kinds of sentiments can change public perception of optometry. What do you think medical students are going to think if/when they read this, honestly?

The distinction you draw by calling some classes "actual courses" is a little sophomoric, don't you think? What you're suggesting is like trying to tell a professor whose class has a lab component that s/he shouldn't be allowed to include lab material on the lecture exams...you know, because they're lecture exams, not lab practicals...🙄 What do you think medical students consider their 3rd and 4th year rotations to be? If they're not "actual courses," then we can call the MD route a 2-year degree and now the OD's have "more schooling" (even though according to you that doesn't seem to matter—who's counting right?😉).

Of course now, if you mean from class orientation to treating your first patient, then sure, OD's can be out on their own after 4 years, and MD's in a minimum of 7 (that is, if they want to use their MD in practice--most do, though). You seem to be saying that this is the best way to define it since in your book that's "least deceptive" for the public. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to define my profession based on public perception. If I did, then my OD degree would have to be changed to an "optowhatchmacallithuh,you'renotarealdoctor?ican'tevenrememberwhatyoujustsaidanyways" degree.

 

[sniklegem]

Most OD programs have 3 years of actual courses, with the 4th year being almost exclusively focused on seeing patients (like an MD residency). Most MD programs have 4 years of actual courses with ~3 years of residency. So call OD 3 and MD 4 or OD 4 and MD 7.

Hahaahaha! You are so off-based it's making my stomach hurt from laughing so much!

#1- Point conceded with the whole 4th year optom student thing.

#2- Point NOT conceded about the 4th year being like an MD residency. Your 4th (and 3rd, too, for many many schools) is like your 3rd and 4th year in med school... you are seeing patients as a student under highly supervised situations.

#3- ALL of my friends in med school have said your first two years are spent with a heavy course load, and your last 2 are spent with a heavy clinic load. So it's not 4 years of actual courses.

#4- Optometry has it's own residency system. It's becoming a more popular option, with most residencies located under a VA roof. It is 1 (one) year long, but I personally know a doc who is in his 2nd year of his residency.

#5- Therefore, you are wrong. Optom school is 4 years for a degree (a DOCTORATE OF OPTOMETRY). Med school is 4 years for a degree (a DOCTORATE OF MEDICINE). No questions about it, thus no room for debate.