Is The Job Situation in Gen Surg That Bad?

[Blitz2006]

So I'm smack in the middle of my Gen Surg electives here in Canada. Loving it. Will be applying to Gen Surg residency in U.S/Canada, with my most realistic chance being Canada, being a Canadian citizen (I'm an IMG right now in the UK).

Anyways, despite me loving the profession, I'm very concerned about the job situation. I'm talking to senior/chief residents, and they are all saying it is impossible to get jobs, particularly in major urban areas. I'm assuming this is the case in the U.S as well?

I'm a bit concerned, since I do not really want to live in a small town for the next 40 years. Your guys 2 cents on the job situation in the next decade?

I realize that no one has a crystal ball, and it all comes down to supply and demand, but just wondering what your thoughts are? Will General Surgery continue to face a crunch in job opportunities?

Do I have a chance to practice surgery in a large urban area, like Boston, NYC, L.A, SFO, etc?

People are telling me that if you want to be in a big city, you basically have to go academic and take a big pay cut.

Everyone here in Canada is talking about not enough OR time/ORs in general. I'm meeting residents who are in fact switching OUT of gen surg into other specialities, like IM/FM solely because of the job situation. Apparently last year, not a single staff/attending job was offered in general surgery in the greater Vancouver area....

Again, as a fresh medical school graduate, I am quite naive about these issues....would love your input.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Docgeorge]

There are a ton of jobs in General surgery. I get at least 3-4 offers a week. Granted they are not in big urban centers like SFO, Boston, NYC. If you want these places then you might want to consider a fellowship. But as one of my attendings said: "who wants to work in Miami. Work someplace with enough partners where you'll make a ton of money and buy you're self a vaca home in Miami". There are plenty of jobs but less so in urban centers and more people who want them. As for me give me a town of about 250K and Im as happy as a dung beetle in an elepant expo.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Agree with DocGeorge. I also get several offers a week as well, via email, mail and phone calls (and I don't do GS).

If anything, GS *needs* more people and there are lots of jobs. Manhattan, San Francisco? Maybe not. But there are plenty of cities in the US which qualify as real cities with large populations, plenty of work and lots of things to do. Phoenix, the 5th largest city in the US, with 4 mil in population, has almost no academic presence; here GS is a community PP scenario. Your advisors might be right about Canada but that's not the case in the US.

I think its a buyers market out there for GS.

 

[europeman]

You r nuts. Gen Surg crazy high demand


European

 

[ajimd]

Agree with docgeorge and WS. GS offers come through my mail/email daily - there is and will continue to be a large defecit in the GS numbers in the U.S., but as the above posters mentioned, it won't likely be in SF, MIA, NYC...etc. But there are some really nice places out there where the pace is a bit slower, but has all the big city creature comforts you could want. You just have to do your homework.

 

[daisygirl]

agree with what has already been said here. i graduated from a general surgery program last july and i was very worried that i would not be able to find a job as a 'simple' general surgeon. especially given that >80% of graduates are pursuing fellowships. i didn't do a fellowship because i'm 36 and i recently had my first child. i was tired of being in training and i wanted to be a mom to my daughter. i simply didn't think i could be a good fellow and good mom. i also don't know if i could have dealt with the crap that being someones bitch entails for another x number of years.

it is hard at times to see past what you are surrounded by. i trained at a major academic university program and there was constant tension between the general surgeons and the subspecialties- lots of bickering, mudslinging and you name it. the general surgeons also weren't a particularly happy bunch.

i've been doing locums while my husband finishes a fellowship. it has been an eye opening experience viewing how general surgeons are still needed in most of this country...as has already been stated- in major cities there is a overabundance of subspecialists so it would be harder to find a job likely as a general surgeon. however, surgeons, even subspecialists are taking general call outside of major cities.

i haven't had a hard time finding locums work and i am in the process of obtaining a permanent position in the state that i will be moving to. thankfully, i was wrong in regards to my feelings that being a general surgeon without subspecialty training would be detrimental to finding employment.

 

[igap]

Based on talking to my peers, it seems like the general surgery jobs are plentiful. General surgeons are still the backbone of many hospitals in mid-size and small towns. Reimbursement to pain ratio is bad, but the work is definitely out there.

 

[SLUser11]

The jobs are out there. It should also be noted that the jobs are not limited to rural towns in the middle of nowhere. Many of the offers are for mid-sized cities (100K-500K), or within 30-45 minutes of large cities.....i.e. you can move into the suburbs of Chicago or Houston, etc. and there will be plenty of jobs....just not at the major urban academic centers.

 

[Blitz2006]

Interesting, thx for the responses. Seems like the market in U.S > Canada. Canada is pretty bad, (of course, not as bad as Ortho).

One of the main problems here in Canada is that surgeons are working later years, not retiring, therefore, no jobs for the fresh graduates. And yes, saturation in large urban areas (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal), resulting in young guys being pushed to rural settings. I love surgery, but I would also like to live in a metropolitan area.

Glad to hear there is still jobs in suburbia. That is my goal, to work in a hospital in a suburb, like SLU mentionned, Houston/Chitown would be perfect. I have no intentions of trying to work in an academic setting in Boston (ie. BWH/MGH), but would much rather work in a community hospital for instance in suburbia boston, like Newton/Dedham or even just outlike like Westborough.

Here is a great article on the situation for surgeons in Canada: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ns-face-flat-lining-job-market/article568544/

 

[naus]

Canada's problem is that they have socialized medicine. There's a huge demand for general surgery in Canada (waitlists are often years long), but there's not enough government money to staff the ORs and keep them open. The surgeon's salary isn't even the problem, it's not being able to fund the ancillary services. So you have a situation in Canada where the surgeons after a decade of training are unemployed even as the demand for surgery skyrockets in Canada. It's like the thousands of brilliant underemployed Russian scientists back in the days of the USSR, many of whom are now living and contributing in the US.

Calgary recently just built a fancy new hospital, but 2/3rds of the wings are still unopened because there's no money to pay for the ancillary staff and their pensions.

This may be our future too.

 

[Med0123]

I just graduated from medschool in Canada and will begin in a week my residency in GS and I agree with Blitz2006 saying the job situation in Canada for general surgery attendings is not as good up north as it is in the states.

However, some areas are more saturated then others. When I was in medschool, I remember working with most of my academic attendings being 55-60ish years old. When I did an elective in a more remote area, surgeons were more like 40-45ish years old... I think the paucity of general surgery positions is geographical AND cyclical and probably not as severe as in other surgical subspecialties. However, waitlist are longer despite the increase of physicians due to the lack of OR nurses, cutting OR time.

I would not be THAT worried about the future Blitz2006. I think the lack of positions in metropolitan areas MAY be a cyclical phemonena in some cities (i.e. where I was in medschool with a generation of babyboomers retireing in the next 10 years) and that there will still be needs when you'll graduate.

NB: anesthesiologists are not spared by the lack of positions in academic areas again secondary to the lack of OR time

 

[BrakngLyv]

Im as happy as a dung beetle in an elepant expo.

Wow...a Dan Rather cameo

 

[Docgeorge]

I'm a little confused