Is the term "student doctor" appropriate for a medical student?

[fahimaz7]

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Lots of attendings introduced me as a "student doctor" while on clerkships. No biggie here. While it was somewhat uncomfortable, it's something that some docs feel is more appropriate than "medical student," which could easily be mistaken for any other healthcare profession.

 

[rodmichael82]

I shadowed (premed) with an er physician who introduced me as "student doctor". I asked him about it, he said it was the simplest and most understandable term he could use for me that wouldn't slow him down by requiring an explanation. He then said since I wasn't going to talk or touch anyone that my title was essentially irrelevant to any purpose but allowing patients to be comfortable and him to keep moving. I loved that guy, he was awesome

this entire discussion is ridiculous. do people really care this much about student doctor vs medical student?

People on SDN care this much about everything. We're also not supposed to tell anyone outside the hospital we're doctors for fear of getting sued.

It's misleading especially to put premeds in that category sorry.

 

[Fox800]

Why does this even deserve a thread?

 

[jm192]

I've had a couple folks in my class call themselves student doctors and it really bothers me. Technically wouldn't a student doctor be an Intern or Resident?
How can a medical student be a student doctor especially a first year? It makes no sense to me.

Why do you care?

 

[Didierdrogba]

who the F cares.... seriously

 

[Siggy]

I wonder how many times I'll have to explain what DO means on my white coat in the future... not that I care one bit.

The great thing about being a DO student is you're also a DO(c) from the first day of class. 😀

[and... no... I don't actually call myself or use in anyway the title or post nominal "DO(c)"]

 

[Law2Doc]

I've had a couple folks in my class call themselves student doctors and it really bothers me. Technically wouldn't a student doctor be an Intern or Resident?
How can a medical student be a student doctor especially a first year? It makes no sense to me.

Interns and residents are house staff/employees, not really students. And after intern year and Step 3, many residents may be full fledged, licensed doctors who could open up shop and practice medicine. Its more of a colleague/ apprenticeship relationship thn a teacher- student one. So technically the only people in the room who could be "student" anything are the med students. The real question to me is the use of the word doctor- does an adjective modify the meaning such that it's not a form of consumer fraud?

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I've seen patients who refused to be seen/examined by a med student, but were fine with being seen by a student doctor. So that makes the phrase valuable from an educational standpoint. We want the med students to be able to assume a role in patient care, do physical exams, get good histories. On the other hand I've seen patients who clearly didn't appreciate that the student doctor wasn't a licensed trained doctor, which from a legal point of view is misrepresentation. So it's a reasonable issue for discussion.

 

[lsu8601]

Interns and residents are house staff/employees, not really students. And after intern year and Step 3, many residents may be full fledged, licensed doctors who could open up shop and practice medicine. Its more of a colleague/ apprenticeship relationship thn a teacher- student one. So technically the only people in the room who could be "student" anything are the med students. The real question to me is the use of the word doctor- does an adjective modify the meaning such that it's not a form of consumer fraud?

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I've seen patients who refused to be seen/examined by a med student, but were fine with being seen by a student doctor. So that makes the phrase valuable from an educational standpoint. We want the med students to be able to assume a role in patient care, do physical exams, get good histories. On the other hand I've seen patients who clearly didn't appreciate that the student doctor wasn't a licensed trained doctor, which from a legal point of view is misrepresentation. So it's a reasonable issue for discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly. Because of that, I (irresponsibly) never used the term "medical student" and I always used "student doctor" when asked what my status was. I never readily identified myself as a medical student and I was always sure to mention that the attending would also be seeing them. I definitely would not recommend my approach - I never had issues, but patients might think you are misrepresenting yourself.

 

[jerseytrash]

I always introduced myself as a medical student except during OSCEs, where I either said "Doctor" (on the Step 2 CS) or "student doctor".

Yes, patients will be confused anyway, but it sounds less egotistic and pretentious than "medical student".

 

[SpecterGT260]

Seems I have the dissenting opinion, but I agree with the OP. Medical student seems more appropriate than student doctor. Patients may take that to mean doctor-in-training, which a student is not.

Why do you think this site is so named? They didn't coin the term. And medical students are absolutely "Doctor-in-training"s ( 😕 ). Unless you would like the term "student doctor" applied to residents. However residents ARE doctors so the term is inappropriate here as well. This is just a case of people arbitrarily assigning their own meaning to a term and then reacting to what, in reality, is themselves. 👎

 

[tco]

I always introduced myself as a medical student except during OSCEs, where I either said "Doctor" (on the Step 2 CS) or "student doctor".

Yes, patients will be confused anyway, but it sounds less egotistic and pretentious than "medical student".

Really? I think student doctor sounds more pretentious than medical student. Either are acceptable.

 

[Armadillos]

If you explained to a non-medical friend the role and level of education of a medstudent, resident, fellow and attending.

Then asked them, if someone introduced themselves as "Student Doctor X", who would you think they were? They are probably going to say the resident.

Its because the words "Doctor X" are together, the general public are typically going to atleast subconsciously understand that your a doctor, because everyone else they have ever seen with "Doctor X" in their title was a doctor. This is why medstudents like using the phrase, it makes us seem more qualified than we are.

 

[jerseytrash]

Really? I think student doctor sounds more pretentious than medical student. Either are acceptable.

Errrr my bad I had a brain fart while writing that - meant to say "student doctor" is more pretentious.

 

[survivordo]

Errrr my bad I had a brain fart while writing that - meant to say "student doctor" is more pretentious.

Let's admit it, in the end it doesn't matter because patient's aren't going to have a clue (sad, but true). I would have to agree it always sounds a bit pretentious to me when someone uses student doctor. I always introduced myself as a med student and when I have a medical student with me I say "Hi I'm Dr. Survivor the Intern and this is my Med student xxx"

Survivor DO

 

[Law2Doc]

Errrr my bad I had a brain fart while writing that - meant to say "student doctor" is more pretentious.

It's all pretentious. Even when you are a doctor introducing yourself as doctor X instead of Bob X it's pretentious, and you will feel weird doing so. The point though is it has the desired effect of putting you and the patient into certain roles so healthcare can occur. So if student doctor works better for what you need to accomplish, and though it's misleading it's not per se inaccurate, I would probably go with that. The problem is the 20% or so of patients i see who refuse to have a "Medical student" involved in their care but seem okay with a student doctor. So you are basically making patients more comfortable that they aren't being pawned off onto someone without doctor being at least part of their title. It's silly, but how you dress up that pig matters.

 

[DocVapor]

It's all pretentious. Even when you are a doctor introducing yourself as doctor X instead of Bob X it's pretentious, and you will feel weird doing so. The point though is it has the desired effect of putting you and the patient into certain roles so healthcare can occur. So if student doctor works better for what you need to accomplish, and though it's misleading it's not per se inaccurate, I would probably go with that. The problem is the 20% or so of patients i see who refuse to have a "Medical student" involved in their care but seem okay with a student doctor. So you are basically making patients more comfortable that they aren't being pawned off onto someone without doctor being at least part of their title. It's silly, but how you dress up that pig matters.

I haven't been there yet, but using a title that I've worked hard for and earned doesn't seem pretentious to me when you are introducing yourself to a patient. It seems like the quickest way to inform them of what your role is.

Now if you are at your neighbor's BBQ and introduce yourself to people as "Doctor X" - that's pretentious.

 

[DrEnderW]

Now if you are at your neighbor's BBQ and introduce yourself to people as "Doctor X" - that's pretentious.

I have a friend whose mother only refers to her husband as "Dr. LastName," even during family dinners and such. Also, he's a dentist. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[jerseytrash]

It's all pretentious. Even when you are a doctor introducing yourself as doctor X instead of Bob X it's pretentious, and you will feel weird doing so. The point though is it has the desired effect of putting you and the patient into certain roles so healthcare can occur. So if student doctor works better for what you need to accomplish, and though it's misleading it's not per se inaccurate, I would probably go with that. The problem is the 20% or so of patients i see who refuse to have a "Medical student" involved in their care but seem okay with a student doctor. So you are basically making patients more comfortable that they aren't being pawned off onto someone without doctor being at least part of their title. It's silly, but how you dress up that pig matters.

I've only once ever had someone refuse to see me as a medical student. Ever. Apparently introducing myself as "medical student" really didn't do much to hurt me.

As for saying "Dr. X", well, I will have that title and the degree to back it up, so no it's not really pretentious sounding.

 

[alpinism]

I have a friend whose mother only refers to her husband as "Dr. LastName," even during family dinners and such. Also, he's a dentist. Absolutely hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdP0vxkkSfM

 

[yehhhboiii]

I have a friend whose mother only refers to her husband as "Dr. LastName," even during family dinners and such. Also, he's a dentist. Absolutely hilarious.

Well yeah, that's pretentious but dentists earned the title. It's just absurd when you have all these people like physical therapists, chiropractors and nurses calling themselves doctors.

 

[fahimaz7]

Well yeah, that's pretentious but dentists earned the title. It's just absurd when you have all these people like physical therapists, chiropractors and nurses calling themselves doctors.

My wife has her doctorate degree in physical therapy. Chiropractors are DC's as well. We lost this fight years ago man. Chrio's can order some meds and send people for advanced imaging as well. DPT's can in certain states.

Last time I checked, I called all my PhD professors "doctor" as well. I'm sure you do/did too!

 

[tantacles]

I've had some attendings insist I introduce myself as "Student Doctor.....". It never sounded right to me but I don't see any issues with it. 3rd year I introduced myself by First and Last name then told the patient I was a medical student working with Dr._______. 4th year I stopped caring and just introduced myself by first name. 😎

That's what I'll be doing.

"I'm tantacles. I'm working with Dr. Attending, and I'll be doing your medical stuff today."

 

[tiedyeddog]

A lot of people don't even understand that being a 'medical student' means you will be a doctor when you graduate. About half the time when I go on a date and they (unfortunately) find out that I'm a medical student, their follow-up question is "So are you going to medical school for nursing? PA? What?" At least the phrase 'student doctor' describes what we are more specifically. I vastly prefer to be called a medical student myself, but I wanted to point out that either term can be confusing to patients.

Agreed, i tend to think 50% of patients will be confused no whatever what I say... I just use student doctor and explain it if they ask.

 

[yehhhboiii]

My wife has her doctorate degree in physical therapy. Chiropractors are DC's as well. We lost this fight years ago man. Chrio's can order some meds and send people for advanced imaging as well. DPT's can in certain states.

Last time I checked, I called all my PhD professors "doctor" as well. I'm sure you do/did too!

I respect the Ph.D and I get your point. But I have problem trusting a degree that's younger than I am (dpt, dnp).

 

[DocVapor]

I just checked, and my school has us saying "Hello, I'm student doctor X, working with doctor Y today." to our SP's. They embroidered our white coats with "Medical student" above our names.

Guess I've all all bases covered.

 

[SpecterGT260]

My wife has her doctorate degree in physical therapy. Chiropractors are DC's as well. We lost this fight years ago man. Chrio's can order some meds and send people for advanced imaging as well. DPT's can in certain states.

Last time I checked, I called all my PhD professors "doctor" as well. I'm sure you do/did too!

I hear you on the mid-level and alternative degrees. From what I have gathered, the DPT is just the masters level PT but now with 20% more "D"! We are also getting it with DNP, and the DCs....

The PhD thing isn't really so weird, although there are some feelings of contention among some there as well. My GF is getting her PhD so we hang out with the grad students some times. It's a little funny sometimes as a few won't even take the time to get to know you and immediately activate short man syndrome when they learn you are a medical student. I had a guy, not 30 seconds after introductions, say "Well just remember, we were doctors first". Which is technically not true, since he was studying political science and the first 3 doctorates were Religion (the original), medicine, and law (in no particular order).

In my mind, masters level work is being fluent in the knowledge that exists within a field. That is masters level work. Doctor-level work is having the ability to add to that base of knowledge in a meaningful way. So in my mind a number of healthcare doctorates and PhDs are essentially meaningless and people who wanted to feel special just tacked on a new title or an extra letter to denote that their degree was terminal within the field. But that is absurd. If that were a valid rationale we should be handing out doctorates in fast food management.

Sorry for the tangent. But it felt relevant.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Use whatever is most comfortable to you.

/thread

Personally, I always introduced myself as "the medical student on the team taking care of you" because at least the patient has some idea of what a medical student is; I didn't want to make the introduction more awkward than it already was by having to go through what the heck a "student doctor" means.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I've only once ever had someone refuse to see me as a medical student. Ever. Apparently introducing myself as "medical student" really didn't do much to hurt me.

As for saying "Dr. X", well, I will have that title and the degree to back it up, so no it's not really pretentious sounding.

Really? Are you male? I had ~15 patients refuse to see a male medical student while I was on OB Clinic. That being said, the damn OB resident wasn't doing much to help my case. She would act like it was this huge deal, and even before I walked in the room she would say, "Are you at all uncomfortable if a male medical student comes in with me?" Then the patient would give an equivocal response, and she'd ask me to stay outside.

I don't know if student doctor would have changed those patients' minds (or the residents approach) but I'm just amazed that people haven't asked for no students. Hell I had a patient in family med clinic tell the nurse that, "I've seen med students in this office, and I don't want any of them talking to me". Clearly she had a bad experience with a med student at some point.

 

[D elegans]

At Jiffy Lube this morning

Cashier/Technician/Con Artist: So what are you in school for?
Me: I'm in medical school.
Other Customer: So are you graduating high school? [I am 26 and look it, btdubbs]
Me: Oh, I'm studying to be a doctor.
Other Customer: Doctor of what? [🙄]
Me: A physician, a medical doctor.
Other Customer: Oh cool, I'm in vet school

I hadn't had a run-in before where people didn't know what medical school meant.

 

[NeuroLAX]

At Jiffy Lube this morning

Cashier/Technician/Con Artist: So what are you in school for?
Me: I'm in medical school.
Other Customer: So are you graduating high school? [I am 26 and look it, btdubbs]
Me: Oh, I'm studying to be a doctor.
Other Customer: Doctor of what? [🙄]
Me: A physician, a medical doctor.
Other Customer: Oh cool, I'm in vet school

I hadn't had a run-in before where people didn't know what medical school meant.

Especially with someone that is allegedly in vet school! As if they didn't take the same classes with pre-meds in college 😕

 

[Salinas]

-

 

[rodmichael82]

Lol@ Hi I'm Joe. I'll be doing your medical stuff today.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Are you being sarcastic? This is such a vague introduction. When I am on the patient side of things at a doctor's appt, I want to know what is going on and what role the person in front of me is playing.

When I see patients in clinic I introduce myself as a medical student and get down to business. Patient's will often ask if I am still in school or what year I am and I explain it.


In reference to the whole Dr title thing. Anyone who introduces themselves as Dr. X at a social gathering is trying to hard--no if, ands or buts. If you are sitting around grilling out or drinking beers, there is no need to insert your work title into the conversation.

On the other hand, if you are seeing patients you should introduce yourself as Dr ---. Patients have so many different people walking into their rooms, that they need to know exactly who you are and what you will be doing.

+1 to all of this. "I will be doing your medical stuff today". If I was a patient in that office I'd ask you (not so) kindly to GTFO.

 

[chiz2kul]

Thanks to this thread, I will start using 'student doctor' when introducing my med students to patients

 

[DrSnips]

At Jiffy Lube this morning

Cashier/Technician/Con Artist: So what are you in school for?
Me: I'm in medical school.
Other Customer: So are you graduating high school? [I am 26 and look it, btdubbs]
Me: Oh, I'm studying to be a doctor.
Other Customer: Doctor of what? [🙄]
Me: A physician, a medical doctor.
Other Customer: Oh cool, I'm in vet school

I hadn't had a run-in before where people didn't know what medical school meant.

To be fair, the guy is unable to guess a person's age to within a decade. Not knowing what 'medical school' means might be the least of his problems.

 

[da8s0859q]

+1 to all of this. "I will be doing your medical stuff today". If I was a patient in that office I'd ask you (not so) kindly to GTFO.

Evilbooyaa, I will be your fourth year medical student today and will be helping to take care of you. I don't want you to leave until you are 100% satisfied for the medical care you receive today, and I want you to know that we care about all aspects of your health.

... man, I sound like one of those training modules we had to do.

 

[mvenus929]

Last year, my preceptor introduced me to patients as "the future Dr. Bza." I thought it was a little weird... Some patients thought that meant I was just interested in applying to medical school.. while others thought that meant I was about to graduate with my MD.

One of our attendings would refer to the males in the group as 'student doctor so-and-so', and all the females by their first name. It was a little weird.

I've had residents who have introduced me as medical student and others who introduce me as student doctor.

I always introduced myself as a medical student except during OSCEs, where I either said "Doctor" (on the Step 2 CS) or "student doctor".

Yes, patients will be confused anyway, but it sounds less egotistic and pretentious than "medical student".

On OSCEs, I don't think I've introduced myself with a title. I say my first and last name, then explain my role. In several OSCEs, we were supposed to be the 'resident on call', so that's how I would introduce myself, but often, I just said I was a medical student working in *** (ER, clinic, whatever) today. I always found the 'student doctor' title weird.

 

[D elegans]

To be fair, the guy is unable to guess a person's age to within a decade. Not knowing what 'medical school' means might be the least of his problems.

True. No way will he be fixing my cat.

 

[thedoctor8706]

At Jiffy Lube this morning

Cashier/Technician/Con Artist: So what are you in school for?
Me: I'm in medical school.
Other Customer: So are you graduating high school? [I am 26 and look it, btdubbs]
Me: Oh, I'm studying to be a doctor.
Other Customer: Doctor of what? [🙄]
Me: A physician, a medical doctor.
Other Customer: Oh cool, I'm in vet school

I hadn't had a run-in before where people didn't know what medical school meant.

That's happens to me more than I would think. Them:"So what are you studying in medical school?" Me: "uhhhh, medicine?" Them: "Oh. Right."

 

[PTPoeny]

I've always introduced myself as "X year medical student". But a lot of people are very uninformed about the medical training system. More than once I have had patients ask if I was supervising a 1st year fellow or a 2nd year resident...

Never had a patient refuse to see me, one time last month a patient was starting to refuse until my resident pointed out that I would be a doctor in 2 months time. Then the patient decided it was okay. I am female, but the two guys that did OB with me didn't have any issues either. How the resident/attending presents the issue really matters (and who the patient sees first matters too).

 

[evilbooyaa]

Evilbooyaa, I will be your fourth year medical student today and will be helping to take care of you. I don't want you to leave until you are 100% satisfied for the medical care you receive today, and I want you to know that we care about all aspects of your health.

... man, I sound like one of those training modules we had to do.

Hi exi, I'm evilbooyaa, one of the med students working with Dr. so-and-so. So, what brings you into the office today?

 

[da8s0859q]

Hi exi, I'm evilbooyaa, one of the med students working with Dr. so-and-so. So, what brings you into the office today?

Well, evilbooyaa, I found this online forum called SDN many years ago. Can you refer me to a psychiatrist?

 

[Harvey Eisen]

I've had a couple folks in my class call themselves student doctors and it really bothers me. Technically wouldn't a student doctor be an Intern or Resident?
How can a medical student be a student doctor especially a first year? It makes no sense to me.

It is inappropriate. "Student" in this sense is used as a adjective to describe the noun "doctor". It infers one is a doctor, first, and then a student. This describes an unlicensed physician--also known as an intern. A medical student should introduce themselves as such: Medical Student. Several papers have been written on this; one, from LSU law, says it simply, ". . .it is fraud." Look it up.

 

[M&L]

It is inappropriate. "Student" in this sense is used as a adjective to describe the noun "doctor". It infers one is a doctor, first, and then a student. This describes an unlicensed physician--also known as an intern. A medical student should introduce themselves as such: Medical Student. Several papers have been written on this; one, from LSU law, says it simply, ". . .it is fraud." Look it up.

It depends on the school . Our school teaches up to call ourselves “student doctor”.

 

[Deltasidearm]

It depends on the school . Our school teaches up to call ourselves “student doctor”.

Definitely dependent on the school then. My school forbids medical students from referring to ourselves as doctor in any context, though I don't know if that practice holds true on the wards.

@Harvey Eisen, there was no reason for a 8-year old thread to be risen from the dead, especially just to respond to someone who hasn't been active on SDN for 5 years.

 

[artist2022]

Closing this necrobumped thread.