Is there a need for more medical schools?

[AAKRAZY]

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Considering how competitive medical school admissions is, I'm at a loss in trying to reconcile the fact that the health care system is in disarray when there are so many who want to serve. I know big insurance has nothing to do with admissions, but would putting out more doctors (via more accredited schools) be one method to remedy the situation, assuming these newly trained physicians spread themselves out more equitably on a per capita basis?

Feel free to slam me on this.

 

[aquaboy]

This is a great paradox that you have described! There is a need for more physicians and all of the graduates of U.S. medical schools can't fill all of the residency spots. We must then turn to foreign medical grads and even after they have taken up some spots there are ultimatley some spots that go unfilled (mostly in Gen. Practice). The most desired residencies (derm, ortho, ophtho, surgery) almost all get completely filled by U.S. grads.

The reason that physicians make a good salary is that old principle of supply and demand. There is more need for physicians than there is supply and therefore the price is driven up. I think that doctors deserve the money they make because they make a lot of sacrifices that others do not have to make in their respective positions.

If more med schools opened you would see the same thing that is happening with law schools. There are so many law schools out there that there is more supply than demand and you won't make good money as a lawyer unless you graduate from a top school. Med school is a little different in the fact that if you go to Finch vs. Harvard, etc., you will ususally make about the same if you go into the same field. I think med schools need to gradually admit more students or more allopathic schools need to open.

Just as an aside, many osteopathic schools have opened in the last 20 years to help supply physicians. Almost no allopathic schools have been started in that time. This is just food for thought!!!!😕

 

[Mike59]

Originally posted by AAKRAZY
Considering how competitive medical school admissions is, I'm at a loss in trying to reconcile the fact that the health care system is in disarray when there are so many who want to serve. I know big insurance has nothing to do with admissions, but would putting out more doctors (via more accredited schools) be one method to remedy the situation, assuming these newly trained physicians spread themselves out more equitably on a per capita basis?

Feel free to slam me on this.

The problem is not supply of MDs, but where they end up. There needs to be a shift from the disprpoportionate number of doctors who practice in suburbs and wealthy urban areas to underserved rural and metro areas.

 

[LoneCoyote]

I definitely think California needs to open another med school or two, especially one that served the growing Central Valley and, as the other poster suggested, other rural, underserved areas.

 

[DW]

Originally posted by azpremed
I definitely think California needs to be open another med school or two.

why spend all that money when you can just send all your future docs to expensive east coast privates

 

[jwin]

although a distribution problem does exist, there is no shortage of physicians. the number of physicians has increased over the last 40 years disproportionately compared to the population increase. we do not need more physicians and although projections are hardly reliable the changes in the health care system (HMOs, physician assistants, etc.) there is some evidence that there may be too many physicians in the future and almost certainly too many specialists. so no, NO MORE MED SCHOOLS. as mentioned above, we do not want to water down the process of getting an MD only to have people graduate and not be able to secure a residency.

 

[xaelia]

Physicians are retiring earlier and taking more time off these days, so there are definite shortages in some areas, an issue exacerbated by increasing percentages of women in the physician workforce.

Though, the rise of the Physician Assistant does signal a shift away from physicians in health care, so perhaps there never will be a shortage except in certain specializations from time to time. In a sense, the lower 40% of the applicant pool that doesn't get accepted to medical school would, I suppose, be the expected candidates for PA.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by xaelia

Though, the rise of the Physician Assistant does signal a shift away from physicians in health care, so perhaps there never will be a shortage except in certain specializations from time to time. In a sense, the lower 40% of the applicant pool that doesn't get accepted to medical school would, I suppose, be the expected candidates for PA.

The PAs that I know would have gained easy acceptance into medical school. I don't think they would be considered at the bottom 40% of the MD applicant pool.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

I've read in another forum that Florida State Univ. just got accredited as a new medical school. $hit why can't Calif. get some schools, especially in so cal. I'd love to see a Cal State LBC, so I could roll in my 64 sippin on gin and juice.

 

[Sunnygirl]

Originally posted by aquaboy
This is a great paradox that you have described! There is a need for more physicians and all of the graduates of U.S. medical schools can't fill all of the residency spots. We must then turn to foreign medical grads and even after they have taken up some spots there are ultimatley some spots that go unfilled (mostly in Gen. Practice). The most desired residencies (derm, ortho, ophtho, surgery) almost all get completely filled by U.S. grads.

The reason that physicians make a good salary is that old principle of supply and demand. There is more need for physicians than there is supply and therefore the price is driven up. I think that doctors deserve the money they make because they make a lot of sacrifices that others do not have to make in their respective positions.

If more med schools opened you would see the same thing that is happening with law schools. There are so many law schools out there that there is more supply than demand and you won't make good money as a lawyer unless you graduate from a top school. Med school is a little different in the fact that if you go to Finch vs. Harvard, etc., you will ususally make about the same if you go into the same field. I think med schools need to gradually admit more students or more allopathic schools need to open.

confused:

I think it is ridiculous that physicians put caps on how many future physicians can be trained. I'm not sure whether it's the AMA or the AAMC that cap the size of med school entering classes, but it does not matter -- this practice should end. It reeks of being a holdover from the good ol' days of medicine, when white males went to medical school to make lots of money, hopefully helping some patients in the process.

I think the greatest argument for increasing the number of students admitted to medical school, either by opening new schools or increasing entering class sizes, is rampant medical error. As things stand today, without competition for jobs, the only economic incentive for physicians to be meticulous practitioners is to avoid malpractice law suits. Shoddy physicians will probably be able to find a job somewhere. More physicians will push more doctors to practice at a higher quality level. I don't mean to put down the many physicians who I'm sure are wonderful human beings and excellent doctors. But more competition will force physicians to be better, and drive those who aren't good, and shouldn't be practicing, out of the market.

 

[ckent]

But more competition will force physicians to be better, and drive those who aren't good, and shouldn't be practicing, out of the market. [/B]

I'd be careful about thinking that "quality" drives healthcare dollars. People usually don't "doctor shop", and when they do, they usually end up picking docs with things like good bed-side manners, nice receptionists, comfortable waiting rooms (a lot of people even pick which ER they go to based on the waiting room, a true, studied fact). You can be both the "nicest" and most incompetent doctor in the world. Unless your pt's a health care professional, he probably won't even know that you are incompetent either. I saw one pt who was being managed by her family doc's "pain clinic" with powerful, addictive narcotics. The only problem was, as we discovered in the pain clinic that i was in, she was faking her pain symptoms (you will learn how to trick pt's who are faking, some are obvious). Of course she wanted to go back to her family doc, he probably seemed like a "nice doc" since he was managing her chronic pain with drugs that made her so high that she wasn't in "pain", but she needed psych help much more then she needed an addiction problem.

There is no need to open new medical schools when other countries are perfectly willing to train them and ship them here. Training med students is an expensive process, your tuition does not cover the true cost of training. Med schools don't get started and usually can't run without government money and donor money.

 

[Zoobaby]

I think we're forgetting the prime motivator...


Cash.


Educating doctors is EXTREMELY expensive. By many estimates it costs upwards of $70K per year to educate a doc, and even the most expensive schools only charge $35K per year in tuition. The balance has to come from someplace, usually endowments or tax money. Med schools are huge money pits, that's why new ones don't open very often...

 

[DW]

Originally posted by Zoobaby
I think we're forgetting the prime motivator...


Cash.


Educating doctors is EXTREMELY expensive. By many estimates it costs upwards of $70K per year to educate a doc, and even the most expensive schools only charge $35K per year in tuition. The balance has to come from someplace, usually endowments or tax money. Med schools are huge money pits, that's why new ones don't open very often...

wow, thank god there are other premeds that realize this fact 🙂

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by ckent


There is no need to open new medical schools when other countries are perfectly willing to train them and ship them here. Training med students is an expensive process, your tuition does not cover the true cost of training. Med schools don't get started and usually can't run without government money and donor money.

I see alot a new DO schools popping up left and right. Every few years another one comes along. And FSU the first MD school to come along in like 10-20 years. Cal States need to have some MD programs, $hit NY has all those SUNYs.

 

[logos]

The market for physicians dosent work exactly like the rest of the market. In the 60s and 70s they (govt.) encouraged (subsidized, etc.) the building of tons of med schools in the hope that increased supply would decrease the price of medical care. But did it work? Not really...what they found is that the more doctors that they trained...the more procedures per capita they performed....essentialy unnecessary (or more likely, less necessary) procedures. Doctors were making more demand for their services (not intentionaly...).

A better solution would probably be to encourage a better distribution distribution of physicians....and this is happening at least to an extent ....through local and state incentives...for ex. my home town will pay a substantial ammount towards your med school if you come back and stay for 5yrs after residency....if you join a the program during college (they give you a job during college summers...)

 

[Bonds756]

While the average MD will make upwards of 120k, some doctors are truly having difficulties making ends meet. I know of several doctors who were basically forced to leave their practice and find another job to support their family because of increasing costs, decreasing reimbursements, and increasing malpractice. Increasing the number of physicians further, when the total number of physicians is already increasing at a much faster rate than the population as a whole, would further exacerbate this problem. So while it might help people who truly want to go to med school but can't get in, but would be detrimental to all physicians once they begin practicing.
And of course, the government does not want to be so quick in financially supporting another med school when the portion of our GDP spent on health care is already the highest in the world.

 

[MacGyver]

We definitely do not need any more med schools. As other people have mentioned, we have had 2 new MD schools open the last 3 years (FSU Med and the new Cleveland Clinic med school)

thats not even including the new DO schools that have opened over hte last few years too.

The United States is already in the high end of number of docs per capita compared to other countries.

Also, as someone else mentioned, increasing the number of docs DOES NOT INDUCE supply side competition, because the customers dont have perfect knowledge of the product doctors produce. Therefore, increasing doctor supply has the opposite effect on health care costs -- it drives them up, not down.

Look at New York City. NYC has the highest number of docs per capita of any city in the world, yet they also have the highest per capita health expenditures.

More docs means more diagnostic procedures and finding more things wrong with people than previously.

 

[Gleevec]

I think instead of spending money on making more mediocre autonomous schools we should spend it on improving and expanding existing schools.
I think Harvard Med is a really good example of a relatively large medical school that still has excellent training, faculty, and facilities. So increasing size and funding of existing med schools is a viable option.

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by Deuce 007 MD
I see alot a new DO schools popping up left and right. Every few years another one comes along. And FSU the first MD school to come along in like 10-20 years. Cal States need to have some MD programs, $hit NY has all those SUNYs.

if i'm correct, SUNYS = UC's, CUNY's = community colleges (occ, gwc, etc.). the Cal States are somewhere in the middle. I doubt Cal states have sufficient funding/support from the cali gov't to start a medical school. but yah, cali definitely needs more medschools. i'm a cali resident but have 4 interviews and 1 acceptance from ny schools, and nothing from cali schools. the next cali medschool will probably be one from a new UC school--like uc merced.

 

[LoneCoyote]

Originally posted by Yogi Bear
if i'm correct, SUNYS = UC's, CUNY's = community colleges (occ, gwc, etc.). the Cal States are somewhere in the middle. I doubt Cal states have sufficient funding/support from the cali gov't to start a medical school. but yah, cali definitely needs more medschools. i'm a cali resident but have 4 interviews and 1 acceptance from ny schools, and nothing from cali schools. the next cali medschool will probably be one from a new UC school--like uc merced.

Actually SUNY and CUNY are two separate systems and CUNY has both 4-year colleges ie Hunter, Lehman, Brooklyn, and community colleges, ie Bronx, BMCC, etc. My parents taught at a CUNY senior college for many years and I would say the senior colleges are between SUNY and the Community colleges, and similar to a Cal State school.

And I definitely cast my vote for UC-Merced 🙂

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by MacGyver
We definitely do not need any more med schools. As other people have mentioned, we have had 2 new MD schools open the last 3 years (FSU Med and the new Cleveland Clinic med school)

thats not even including the new DO schools that have opened over hte last few years too.

The United States is already in the high end of number of docs per capita compared to other countries.

Also, as someone else mentioned, increasing the number of docs DOES NOT INDUCE supply side competition, because the customers dont have perfect knowledge of the product doctors produce. Therefore, increasing doctor supply has the opposite effect on health care costs -- it drives them up, not down.

Look at New York City. NYC has the highest number of docs per capita of any city in the world, yet they also have the highest per capita health expenditures.

More docs means more diagnostic procedures and finding more things wrong with people than previously.

Some good points, but one little correction. Philadelphia has the most doctors per capita in the US, actually by a significant margin. This should be a little intuitive since there are 4 med schools in Philly (including two of the largest in the country), a city only a fraction of the size of NYC which has 6 or 7 (smaller) med school.
Either way, the NYC example is a good one as the same effect is true in Philly (although not to the same extent since the cost of living is so much lower).

 

[group_theory]

Actually, Philly has 5 within its city limits

Penn
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel in the tradition of MCP/Hahnemann
PCOM (w/ a class size of 250)

And if you look at the area, there's Penn State in Hershey and UMNDJ-SOM in Stratford NJ, like 20 miles away from the Ben Franklin bridge

To be fair, NY also has NYCOM, with a class size of 300 but it's on long island, not within city limits

Group_theory

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by Yogi Bear
but yah, cali definitely needs more medschools. i'm a cali resident but have 4 interviews and 1 acceptance from ny schools, and nothing from cali schools. the next cali medschool will probably be one from a new UC school--like uc merced.

I feel ya dog, been invited to 11 interviews and only one was in Calif. Been accepted to go to school in the boony mid west so far only. Scraping snow is gonna suck a$$. $hit NY gots more med schools then cali, and cali is way large, wtf up wit dis. A city like Chicago almost has as many med schools as the whole state of Calif, wtf up wit dat.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Gleevec
I think instead of spending money on making more mediocre autonomous schools we should spend it on improving and expanding existing schools.
I think Harvard Med is a really good example of a relatively large medical school that still has excellent training, faculty, and facilities. So increasing size and funding of existing med schools is a viable option.

I dont think we should do either option.

We dont need any more doctors. Having more doctors results in increased, not decreased health care costs

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by group_theory
Actually, Philly has 5 within its city limits

Penn
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel in the tradition of MCP/Hahnemann
PCOM (w/ a class size of 250)

And if you look at the area, there's Penn State in Hershey and UMNDJ-SOM in Stratford NJ, like 20 miles away from the Ben Franklin bridge

To be fair, NY also has NYCOM, with a class size of 300 but it's on long island, not within city limits

Group_theory

Sorry for leaving PCOM out. Another huge class to go along with Jeff and Drexel's. It truly is amazing there is work for all the docs who stay in Philly (or come over from Jersey).

 

[deleted4401]

Um ...

In terms of doctors per 1000, the United States lags behind at least 17 industrialized countries including: Italy, Greece, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland. Italy has almost 6, Germany has over 4. We have 2.8. So, it is incorrect to say that the U.S. is high end on #s of physicians. Amongst industrialized countries, we are quite middle of the road (website: http://www.hhs.se/personal/suzuki/o-English/he20.html).

Now, every single one of those countries spends less per capita on health care than the United States, we spend over 14 cents of every dollar earned on health care. The next highest is somewhere around 10 cents. Japan spends half as much per person! (source: The Economics of Health and Health Care, Folland/Goodman/Stano) There is no correlation between physician number and health care costs. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post, especially MacGuyver, b/c I've never heard that before. It's contrary to most health economic thinking, and I would like to read those studies.

Also, most of those countries have a far more equal regional distribution of their physicians. We are clearly in need of physicians in this country. Look up specialty websites: allergists, cardiologists (interventional and non), orthopedics, primary care all are facing a crisis in terms of estimated health care need v. current supply. This is evident in many, many specialties.

The U.S. has to fill 5,000 spots with foreign doctors per year. That is pretty poor. We have, unarguably, the finest health care technology, equipment, facilities in the world. But, we have to get docs from third world countries (India, Pakistan, Mexico, Syria) to run 'em!

I understand that it will cost a lot of money to train 5,000 more docs, but that is an investment in human capital that definitely pays off. We spend so much money on health care as is, we might as well supply our own doctors, where we can control quality, etc.

I don't think people are aware of the current situation. This so-called 'glut' of physicians is a mirage. In just a few metropolitan areas this exists. The rest of the country will be faced with a difficult situation in the next 20 years, and I'm curious to see how we'll face it. Unless new schools open, I can guarantee that the amount of FMGs will grow substantially to make up for the inequalities.

And I'm not thrilled with the argument 'let the third world countries train em'. As an American, I have pride in the self sufficiency we have shown since indendence. It's embarrassing to have to import some of the most important members of society from the country, especially when there are thousands of qualified people in the U.S. who are willing to become physicians.

simul

 

[doctor girl]

What other types of jobs did they find? Were they still practicing MD's (just working at a hospital instead of in their own practice)?

Or did they totally leave the medical profession?

Originally posted by Bonds756
While the average MD will make upwards of 120k, some doctors are truly having difficulties making ends meet. I know of several doctors who were basically forced to leave their practice and find another job to support their family because of increasing costs, decreasing reimbursements, and increasing malpractice. Increasing the number of physicians further, when the total number of physicians is already increasing at a much faster rate than the population as a whole, would further exacerbate this problem. So while it might help people who truly want to go to med school but can't get in, but would be detrimental to all physicians once they begin practicing.
And of course, the government does not want to be so quick in financially supporting another med school when the portion of our GDP spent on health care is already the highest in the world.

 

[doctor girl]

PCOM isn't a "medical school". It's an osteopathic school. 😉

"Look at New York City. NYC has the highest number of docs per capita of any city in the world, yet they also have the highest per capita health expenditures."

Perhaps MacGyver meant that NY state has the most per state ?? 😕

Originally posted by group_theory
Actually, Philly has 5 within its city limits

Penn
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel in the tradition of MCP/Hahnemann
PCOM (w/ a class size of 250)

And if you look at the area, there's Penn State in Hershey and UMNDJ-SOM in Stratford NJ, like 20 miles away from the Ben Franklin bridge

To be fair, NY also has NYCOM, with a class size of 300 but it's on long island, not within city limits

Group_theory

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by doctor girl
PCOM isn't a "medical school". It's an osteopathic school. 😉

You should post that on the pre-osteo/osteopathic forums, you'r bound to get some good reactions with that one.

 

[Peter Parker]

Originally posted by ckent
There is no need to open new medical schools when other countries are perfectly willing to train them and ship them here.

Uh...no. Other countries are perfectly willing to train medical professionals. However, many (i.e. India, Pakistan, South Africa) will let you know they are not willing to ship them anywhere (perhaps with the exception of the Caribbean). Most of these countries have their own health care crises, often much worse than the US -- the last thing these countries want is an exodus of the most skilled segments of their health care labor force.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Sunnygirl
I think it is ridiculous that physicians put caps on how many future physicians can be trained. I'm not sure whether it's the AMA or the AAMC that cap the size of med school entering classes, but it does not matter -- this practice should end.

Actually I think its the LCME (Licensing Council on Medical Education) which strictly regulates the number of MD granting institutions. There's another body that governs the DO schools.

It reeks of being a holdover from the good ol' days of medicine, when white males went to medical school to make lots of money, hopefully helping some patients in the process.

Oh so the only people interested in making money as docs are white males? This is a blantantly racist statement.

I think the greatest argument for increasing the number of students admitted to medical school, either by opening new schools or increasing entering class sizes, is rampant medical error.

Rampant medical error? Compared to what? Are accountants 100% infallible? Lawyers? Hell no. Doctors make mistakes the same rate as any other profession. The stakes are higher to be sure, but the statement "rampant" implies that doctors are more error prone than anybody else, which is totally untrue.

As things stand today, without competition for jobs, the only economic incentive for physicians to be meticulous practitioners is to avoid malpractice law suits. Shoddy physicians will probably be able to find a job somewhere. More physicians will push more doctors to practice at a higher quality level.

This is absolute bunk. More doctors DOES NOT LEAD TO GREATER COMPETITION! Health care does not follow the classic supply demand calculus of economics. Even when adjusted for increased availability of procedures and technological usage, its clear that increasing docs does NOT lead to lowering of health care costs.

I don't mean to put down the many physicians who I'm sure are wonderful human beings and excellent doctors.

Oh yeah, nice carrot to throw out there since you used blatantly racist language earlier to imply that older white doctors are greedy bastards who care nothing about patient health and only about lining their pockets.

But more competition will force physicians to be better, and drive those who aren't good, and shouldn't be practicing, out of the market.

More docs does not foster more competition. Look at the nations biggest cities, which have more docs per capita than rural areas. Now look at error rates adjusted per capita and physician salaries. If your model was accurate, you'd expect rural docs to have extremely high pay relative to urban docs, and you'd also expect error rates to be substantially higher in rural areas compared to urban. However the evidence we have is the opposite of what you suggest.

 

[MacGyver]

Simul,

A better comparison for number of docs vs health care costs is done inside the USA, not across multiple countries which use vastly different health care schemes.

A comparison of per capita health care costs in urban areas vs rural areas in the USA is a better comparison than comparing USA vs Europe.

Health care costs per capita are always greater in urban areas, despite higher number of docs per capita. Even when adjusted for technology usage, there is still a discrepancy between rural and urban areas.

 

[group_theory]

Originally posted by Deuce 007 MD
You should post that on the pre-osteo/osteopathic forums, you'r bound to get some good reactions with that one.

Actually, I'm OK with that statement by "doctor girl". She did wink at me 🙂

And when time comes when you are finishing a long shift, nothing like a good osteopath to give you some manipulation for those muscle strains and muscle pains 😀

Plus, it drives the women wild 😛


Also, remember that the need of more medical school is determined by the need of the population, not the need of the applicants. Sure, if you are a premed california resident, that sucks while if you are a premed Texas resident, life is grand. However, as long as doctors are willing to move to California (let's see, a high of 80 and sunny VS a high of 19 with a wind chill of -10 but sunny), there will be no extra need for new medical schools.

BTW, for California, there are 2 osteopathic schools, COMP and TUCOM. TUCOM is located on Maire Island, and tuition is $28,000 (2002-2003) with a class size of 125. COMP is in Pomona with a tuition of $29,410 and a class size of 176.
If you are a CA resident and want to stay in CA for med school (and don't care about post-nominal letters) or would like to learn OMT, then consider these two schools.

Cheers!!!!!

group_theory

 

[CJLaw]

As I read this thread it became clear, that there is one trend in the opinions of the posters. Those who have been accepted to medical school already seem to not want other schools opened. While those who are still anxiously waiting for acceptances REALLY want more schools opened or more people accepted. It seems that the latter is very self serving group of people.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by CJ2Doc
As I read this thread it became clear, that there is one trend in the opinions of the posters. Those who have been accepted to medical school already seem to not want other schools opened. While those who are still anxiously waiting for acceptances REALLY want more schools opened or more people accepted. It seems that the latter is very self serving group of people.

I've already been accepted, but I still want more schools opening up, especially in Calif.

GT, I interviewed at TUCOM and it was one of the most mickey mouse, half assed school I've ever seen. On top of that they wanted a non-refundable $2,000 deposit in like two weeks of acceptance. Luckly I got into an MD program with only a $100 refundable deposit, before my 2 Gs was due at TUCOM. As for COMP I can't say much about that school, was a moot point to interview with MD acceptance in the bag. I do have a friend that goes there, she practices passive myofascial on me all the time. You are right OMT if done by someone your attracted to is the bomb.

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by doctor girl
What other types of jobs did they find? Were they still practicing MD's (just working at a hospital instead of in their own practice)?

Or did they totally leave the medical profession?

I meant totally leave the field. They still are licensed (although at this point would fall short on CME credit), but left since they couldn't make enough money. I know of several instances, all in urban cities (Philly and NYC). One is a success story though- he went on to become one of the head chefs at Le Bec-fin (the only 5 star restaurant in Philly).

 

[Bonds756]

Originally posted by SimulD
Um ...

In terms of doctors per 1000, the United States lags behind at least 17 industrialized countries ... So, it is incorrect to say that the U.S. is high end on #s of physicians.

There is no correlation between physician number and health care costs. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post, especially MacGuyver, b/c I've never heard that before. It's contrary to most health economic thinking, and I would like to read those studies.

We are clearly in need of physicians in this country. Look up specialty websites: allergists, cardiologists (interventional and non), orthopedics, primary care all are facing a crisis in terms of estimated health care need v. current supply.

I think most people who said the US in on the high end of physicians was referring to the fact that the number of physicians relative to the general population has been greatly increasing, not that the US compared to other countries has more docs relative to the general population.

Such studies exist. We just started a class on Healthcare Systems and they presented the data. I will post some of the info when I actually bring that folder home.

I would be careful including the highly sought after allergy residency with the others in that list (although some of the others were good points).