Is There A Preference For Males?

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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I think a whole heap of you need to take a chill pill!!! At no point did this guy stand up and say, "EVERY SINGLE GIRL IS GOSSIPY AND CATTY AND THEREFORE SHOULD NEVER BE GIVEN A JOB!!!" All he did was point out one of lifes truths - there is a higher proportion of the female population which is drawn to gossip and drama than that of the male population. Think of all girls highschools, all girl workplaces etc. I honestly think denying that the average guy is way less dramatic than the average girl is a load of bull, and you've all taken offence at nothing. Just because *we're* not like that doesn't mean a whole heap of females aren't - and he did acknowledge that not all girls are like this!!! So get off your high horses!!!

As a vet, to be perfectly honest, *I* would preferentially hire males over females. Purely from experience of how large, predominately female working groups turn out. I know multiple vet clinics who have huge problems with their nurses because they're catty, gossipy, and downright mean to each other. There are places where some nurses actually wont work with other nurses, because of incidents they've had in the past. And these clinics have an entirely female nurse population.

So yeah, to avoid that, I'd hire males. But most importantly, I'd hire level-headed, smart people. And if you want to be a gossipy drama king or queen, your gone!!!

But seriously, lay off the guys. They actually didnt say anything offensive.
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sunshinevet said:
I think a whole heap of you need to take a chill pill!!! At no point did this guy stand up and say, "EVERY SINGLE GIRL IS GOSSIPY AND CATTY AND THEREFORE SHOULD NEVER BE GIVEN A JOB!!!" All he did was point out one of lifes truths - there is a higher proportion of the female population which is drawn to gossip and drama than that of the male population. Think of all girls highschools, all girl workplaces etc. I honestly think denying that the average guy is way less dramatic than the average girl is a load of bull, and you've all taken offence at nothing. Just because *we're* not like that doesn't mean a whole heap of females aren't - and he did acknowledge that not all girls are like this!!! So get off your high horses!!!

As a vet, to be perfectly honest, *I* would preferentially hire males over females. Purely from experience of how large, predominately female working groups turn out. I know multiple vet clinics who have huge problems with their nurses because they're catty, gossipy, and downright mean to each other. There are places where some nurses actually wont work with other nurses, because of incidents they've had in the past. And these clinics have an entirely female nurse population.

So yeah, to avoid that, I'd hire males. But most importantly, I'd hire level-headed, smart people. And if you want to be a gossipy drama king or queen, your gone!!!

But seriously, lay off the guys. They actually didnt say anything offensive.
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Thank you for pointing out the obvious. :thumbup:
 
I've had the same experience at the OP. When I applied to the job I had for half of undergrad, the head tech seemed very happy that a guy was applying (at that point, i was applying for kennel tech, and worked my way into the tech tech part). And towards the end of my employment, when I was quitting, and other spaces were being filled, the head tech also seemed to prefer hiring more guys. She gave a multitude of reasons, be it from not wanting drama, to having people that could handle the 150+ lb dogs we get in, several of whom have mobility problems.

Do I think this was fair? I'll concede on the strength issue, most of the interviewed applicants were 5'4, 120 lb tops girls (nothing wrong with being that height or weight!). But was this going to help with the issue of "Mrs. Hobart's 150 lb dog is not mobile, and none of the guys come in for another 30 minutes, what do we do!" scenario. But the less drama? Not so sure. I honestly can't say whether any of the genders trend towards cattyness more than the other (although I'll admit, I haven't scoured the book stacks here on campus for the journals with these studies), and I've known just as many level headed girls as I do guys. Can it be that vet med can attract the crazies? Could be. It was definitely ironic that the most catty and passive aggressive employee at the clinic (head tech) would make comments about not liking catty employees though.

But as far as applying to school goes, I found no preference towards males. I unfortunately had also heard that myth, and was definitely disappointed. I doubt that many schools (though someone mentioned Western) actively try to add men to the profession. I guess people figure I'm privileged enough, being a white straight male (although I admit, having the membership card with access to the fast lane on the highways, the emergency funds bank account, and vast network of professional, white male friends, that can get me into any job or school, are nice).

Definitely don't get me started on overcompensation resulting from 'leveling the field'.
 
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I work in a clinic where all of the techs, kennel help, and receptionists are female. We have a female vet, and a male vet.

Never do we have any problem assisting the larger dogs with getting into the clinic, getting around, or anything. Same goes for the big goats, sheep, and other small livestock that may have mobility problems.
It might take two of us, but we get it done :) We also have one of those big slings like human hospitals have, with the poles on either side and "seatbelts." Slide fluffy on, buckle in, and one person gets the honor of walking backwards while carrying their share of the load :laugh: I ended up on my butt once with a 150lb goat on top of me licking my face, but that's a whole 'nother story....

So while maybe a male would be useful, we get by just fine and arent hindered by our lack of testosterone in any way. In fact, our male vet is pretty much a useless gorilla at times, so even if he is around, we don't dare ask him to use his muscles.
 
I apologize if I made it sound like any clinic without a guy is helpless when it comes to having large animals. Obviously women are just as capable of lifting, and with two of you, I'm sure it was no problem (which I'm sure is better than the lone "macho" guy trying to lift all on his own, only to get back problems later).
 
(although I admit, having the membership card with access to the fast lane on the highways, the emergency funds bank account, and vast network of professional, white male friends, that can get me into any job or school, are nice).
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*scratches head* Where the hell did you get that? I want one! Fast lane on the highway sounds like fun.

Every time *I've* tried to fast lane it, I get pulled over. "But I'm white!" doesn't seem to work either.
 
We had one male tech at the SA clinic I worked at. He was good for helping to lift Mastiffs and he was absolutely fearless when it came to restraining animals. However, he had more "drama" and "emotional"ness in his life that most of us female techs did, so.

As a 5'0 female with an interest in large animal, I know I'm going to have a lot of 'splainin' to do. My boss now asked me, "But how will you palpate a cow?!" And said I'd climb on her back and swing around backwards. He cracked up. But really, if someone wants something badly enough, it -shouldn't- matter what age, gender, race, sexuality, whatever else they are. Will discrimination still occur when it comes down to it? Of course, unfortunately.
 
As someone, somewhere put it "What real advantage is a couple of extra pounds against a half ton beast?"
 
that redhead said:
As a 5'0 female with an interest in large animal, I know I'm going to have a lot of 'splainin' to do. My boss now asked me, "But how will you palpate a cow?!"
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one of the LA doctors i work for is barely over 5' and probably doesn't clear 100lbs by much :) and she's one of the best. she gets a lot of crap from some of our clients (teasing of course) but there are definitely advantages too. she says that since her arms are smaller it's easier for her to palpate.
 
If I were a cow that needed to be palpitated, I might prefer a more gentle and delicate arm up my backside, personally. ;) Just strikes me as less obtrusive. My equine vet is a 6 foot man, but he has such a gentle manner around horses, so they seem to be okay with him poking them and reaching around the sensitive bits.

Being around horses so much, and not being all that big, I've learned how little size matters when trying to control a freaked-out 1000lb. animal. Timing seems to be a lot more important.
 
rileyroo said:
one of the LA doctors i work for is barely over 5' and probably doesn't clear 100lbs by much :) and she's one of the best. she gets a lot of crap from some of our clients (teasing of course) but there are definitely advantages too. she says that since her arms are smaller it's easier for her to palpate.
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Totally OT, but question: is there a point at which a person's arm can be too short to adequately palpate? I'm 5' tall with extra short limbs so I'm worried I'm going to be someone who ends up neck deep into a cow's behind with still an inch or two to go... I'm not interested in LA at all as of now, but I don't want to flunk out of vet school.
 
Minnerbelle said:
Totally OT, but question: is there a point at which a person's arm can be too short to adequately palpate? I'm 5' tall with extra short limbs so I'm worried I'm going to be someone who ends up neck deep into a cow's behind with still an inch or two to go... I'm not interested in LA at all as of now, but I don't want to flunk out of vet school.
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I don't know about every school - but at ISU palpation is an elective and you don't have to do it to pass anything. Plus, with a stepstool you might be surprised what you can accomplish. I know a pretty tiny girl that can get it done.
 
Minnerbelle said:
Totally OT, but question: is there a point at which a person's arm can be too short to adequately palpate? I'm 5' tall with extra short limbs so I'm worried I'm going to be someone who ends up neck deep into a cow's behind with still an inch or two to go... I'm not interested in LA at all as of now, but I don't want to flunk out of vet school.
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Granted, the extent of my cow experience is with dairy cows, but for most of them, I've found that I actually have to bend a little at the knees to get the "right angle" for palpating. I'm 5.3, so I can't imagine there being too much of a problem at 5. Or maybe the cows at my school are just little! Length wise, I definitely dont have the longest arms around either, and I've never felt like I really need to cram every inch of my arm to feel what I needed to.

And I highly doubt they would let you in, after seeing you in an interview, if they didn't think you could do it :laugh:

So I wouldnt worry so much about it!
 
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cowgirla said:
Granted, the extent of my cow experience is with dairy cows, but for most of them, I've found that I actually have to bend a little at the knees to get the "right angle" for palpating. I'm 5.3, so I can't imagine there being too much of a problem at 5. Or maybe the cows at my school are just little! Length wise, I definitely dont have the longest arms around either, and I've never felt like I really need to cram every inch of my arm to feel what I needed to.

And I highly doubt they would let you in, after seeing you in an interview, if they didn't think you could do it :laugh:

So I wouldnt worry so much about it!
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k thanks guys, one more fear put to rest!
 
I came late to this thread lol anyway, i finished reading so i still wanted to respond...At least I missed all of the drama!!! haha

I do believe the stats that startingovervet posted, and from personal experience not all of the guys i know got into vet school. Even the ones who did, one got in off the waitlist...and he had 1000s hrs experience and 3.5 GPA which is normal. The other is the most incredible pre-vet student i know. He will make an AMAZING vet. He applied multiple times to his IS school and never got a chance for an interview because of his 3.2 GPA (still not horrible tho!). But he is at St. George's now and i still think he'll be the best vet i know later.

I understand why some people's feathers got ruffled with the previous posts. But I also agree with sunshinevet. I know that not all girls have drama filled lives and like to gossip...but a big percentage do. It's much harder for me to find girls to get along with because of this. I can't stand it. That's why i befriend guys more often. and if I had my own clinic i'd probably want to hire all guys or girls who were obviously tomboys hahaha that probably is biased but...i want to go into lab animal anyway so this will never happen.

anywho, i also agree with all the people who said that it may be equal rates of acceptance to vet school but when looking for jobs men are preferred. I have heard this from other vets since there are less men in the profession. It makes sense, I'm sure where the situation is reversed, like engineering...woman are preferred to be hired over men if they are just as qualified
 
Just to add to the conversation about men = big and strong...
I'm a guy who is 5'4" and less than 120 lbs. The clinic I used to work at was mostly women, but with the exception of maybe one of the vets, I was by far the smallest and shortest person. Pretty much every other female tech and the other three female vets could probably lift me as easily as the great dane. I seemed to do fine with dealing with the big dogs, but I definitely was not carrying any more weight or wrestling any more big dogs than any of the female techs. And the other two male techs were not any more brawny than any of our female techs. In my experience, it seemed that quick hands are a much more useful asset than strong hands.

My expectation is that I will be evaluated as a potential employee and a potential vet school candidate solely based on my qualities as an individual and that my gender will not factor into the picture at all.
 
cowgirla said:
Never do we have any problem assisting the larger dogs with getting into the clinic, getting around, or anything. Same goes for the big goats, sheep, and other small livestock that may have mobility problems.
It might take two of us, but we get it done :) We also have one of those big slings like human hospitals have, with the poles on either side and "seatbelts." Slide fluffy on, buckle in, and one person gets the honor of walking backwards while carrying their share of the load :laugh: I ended up on my butt once with a 150lb goat on top of me licking my face, but that's a whole 'nother story....
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Not to downplay the "we can always manage" sentiment here, but when something like this happens the the clinic owner is sitting there thinking two things: "I hope there OK" and "Crap.... I wonder how this is going to affect my workmans comp insurance."

My experience was working at a clinic with more male techs than female techs. And I was the second smallest at 5'8" and 170 lbs along with another guy who was the same height and 15 lbs lighter. We did all the heavy lifting, and pretty much everything with our larger patients.
 
I work at a clinic that is mainly females with the excpetion of one tech and one doctor. The girls are able to do just fine with lifting of the heavy patients. We do have a rule at our clinic though: If it weighs over 50 pounds there must be two people lifting (most of us could probably easily lift 60 pounds on our own, but this is the rule and everyone most follow it including the guys). Over 100 pounds 3 people must be lifting. This is to eliminate injuries and back problems. It is just safer (or is it more safe? My brain is dying due to massive amounts of studying at the moment) that way.
 
david594 said:
Not to downplay the "we can always manage" sentiment here, but when something like this happens the the clinic owner is sitting there thinking two things: "I hope there OK" and "Crap.... I wonder how this is going to affect my workmans comp insurance."
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It probably isn't much worse than "Oops, I herniated a disc because I'm big enough to handle it all by myself." And this goes for both men and women. For the men who are minorities in the field and feel the need to prove their manly muscles or are expected to take on the heavier things simply because they're the guy in the clinic. For the women it's the need to prove we can be just as tough and as competent as the men because even though people claim otherwise, sexism is still very prevalent.

I was asked at a job interview (even thought it's illegal) if I was pregnant or planned to become pregnant because there were already a couple of women who were knocked up and "it's a scheduling hassle". I get the practical reasons behind wanting to avoid this but instead of being judged on my skills, intelligence and work ethic, I feel like I was being judged on the fertility of my uterus. Yes, thanks to a very biased biology women get physically screwed (no pun intended) in the pregnancy department. Yes, it makes things difficult when one of your vets needs to take extended time off. But not everyone wants "the miracle of life" sucking the life out of you for 9 months, and even if that happens it's now socially acceptable for Dads to take on the roles of child raising. Yes, I may need a few weeks for my body to physically heal but short of a lobotomy I'm extremely unlikely to want to trade in a day in a field I love, for a day changing diapers.

To the people arguing about the drama and passive aggressiveness that comes with either gender: face it, gossip and drama aren't tied to whether you have testes or ovaries. If you're a gossip it's not because you're a man or a woman, it's because you're a gossip.

And the "girly girls you can't trust that throw you under the bus", it's not a girly thing. It's a crappy person thing. I wear make up, paint my nails and love stilettos but that doesn't mean I'm automatically going to use them to walk over you just because I can.

Each gender has its own strengths and weaknesses but making us feel the need to defend our gender (men included) does nothing productive for anyone.
 
david594 said:
Not to downplay the "we can always manage" sentiment here, but when something like this happens the the clinic owner is sitting there thinking two things: "I hope there OK" and "Crap.... I wonder how this is going to affect my workmans comp insurance."
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Actually, in this case, the clinic owner was holding the other end of the sling, and when little goatie decided he wanted to be a lap dog (apparently, my lap is safer than the big scary moving blue thing he was laying on?), she couldn't stop laughing her a** off. I think she spent more time rolling on the ground laughing than I spent trying to convince goatie that he could stop licking my face. After all that, said goat walked into the clinic without any help. Interesting how they miraculously get better sometimes...

So while I can see your point with some incidents, other times its just plain funny :laugh:
 
jtom said:
I got quite a response, haha. Its just that when I went in and they realized I was applying for a job they could not stop talking about how they need to hire a man and just really made it clear they were not interested in women. It actually made me feel a little uncomfortable in a way.
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Sigh. That's inappropriate and not to mention a potential lawsuit waiting to happen.

It makes perfect sense to seek out someone with strengths that help to built the best team. And even though women dominate in the vet tech profession, it's not really a great idea to be blasting "The Boys are Back in Town" over the PA system when a guy walks in to apply for the job.

Imagine six months down the road when you're doing performance reviews and a woman on the team believes the guy got a bigger raise/bonus and undeserved better review (yes, in la la land where people still get raises) than she did. Zoinks! The practice is now accused preferential hiring practices and promotion/raise discrimination based on gender.

(If it isn't obvious from my posts lately, I'm a non-trad with a business background. And man do I sound like a stick in the mud.)
 
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(If it isn't obvious from my posts lately, I'm a non-trad with a business background. And man do I sound like a stick in the mud.)
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Actually a lot of vets would do well to take a business law class or two. From my understanding they touch base on employment law in vet school but don't go too in-depth (and the students don't care for the most part). Iowa is seeking to change that however. They stressed that at interviews.
 
I went in to fill out an assistant/kennel job application, and the first thing the receptionist said as she handed me the application is that "we are really looking for a guy, but you can fill out the application anyways".

It was just one place, but since I've been looking for a kennel/assistant job for 6 months now, a bit frustrating.

They could sidestep all of this sex mumbo jumbo by saying they're looking for people over 6 feet tall, or who have competed in regional wrestling/weightlifting tournaments. Then I'd actually have a chance (well, minus the height requirements).
 
I wish that was not case but it appears if there is an open position at one of the prodominately female clinics I have gone into, a male applicant will stand out among the female applicants and given preference. As I said, I was actually uncomfortable the way they talked to me even though it was to my advantage.

I can really feel for the ladies who apply for paid positions to get experience hours because it is one of the few things on the vet school applications we cannot control.
 
Well, I'm a guy standing at a towering 5'5" and every place I've interviewed at they all seemed really excited to be getting a guy. I don't think it has to do with size or strength, maybe these clinics are just looking for some diversity. Out of all the places I've worked at, I've only ever had one other male co-worker.

As for women bringing drama to work, I don't mean to offend, but I do think that women on the whole tend to do quite a bit more gossiping and such. At least, in my experiences working with women that's how it's been. I work with an all female team right now, and the things that they do and say just makes my jaw drop sometimes.

That being said, I've had plenty of awesome female coworkers so I'd never take gender into consideration if I were to hire someone.
 
I know this thread is a little cool, but I've been away, so it's new to me. Plus, it's definitely a hot topic for me, so I just want to get my two cents in. As a fairly responsible, professional (when it comes to work) chick who has more than once been the target of "All women are evil/gossipy/catty, so I'll treat you this way even though I don't hardly know you!" I get very frustrated when I encounter attitudes like this.


Anyway, @ Tiktaalik: I want to say THANK YOU for your level-headed, voice-of-reason posts. A few others have been good, too, but Tiktaalik has said everything I've been wanting to and very clearly, respectfully, and calmly.


For all the people saying: "Most women are catty. However, I would never stereotype against women..." Guess what! You just stereotyped! If you can ignore those prejudices when working with others, fine, but you can't say you don't stereotype.

However, everyone in this thread, even those who have been stereotyping (in my opinion), has kept this way more civil than I even thought possible on an internet discussion, so kudos to everyone.

I also have plenty of stories about having petty female co-workers, awesome female co-workers, great male co-workers... And, of course, the most flaky and difficult-to-work-with co-workers I've dealt with have been male!

A small female co-worker and I (and I'm no weight-lifter myself) once worked with a 150-pound Irish wolfhound that we had to deadlift three feet off the ground to x-ray (and me with an injured back, no less; before anyone chides, though, it was an emergency on an understaffed Saturday).

I personally have seen a lot of variety among all the people I've worked with, and I have had my pre-conceived biases (both good and bad) over turned many, many times. The only consistent rule I can come up with is this: Approach each new person with no assumptions about their level of responsibility and professionalism.

In conclusion: 1) different people are different, regardless of sex or other attributes and 2) anecdotal evidence does not a random, unbiased sample make.
 
Hey guys I just got a full time job at a mixed animal vet and will be the large animal technician. I will be mainly working with horses but have already worked with cattle and goats my first week. I was told by several of the vets and technicians that I will be a "hot commodity" come admission time because I am a male and will have mainly large animal experience, which they said was rare among applicants (most of the vets are recent graduates). They said that because I can back up my interest in large animal vetmed with hours and not simply stating it in personal statement, that I will be given a heavy preference. Not sure if that is true or not. Hopefully I will have a decent amount of hours of large animal experience before I apply and will work full time there until the spring where I can send an adendum or state it in an interview (assuming I get one).

The head vet also told me that the fact I was a male was a major reason he gave me a position. He said that I need a stronger guy to handle larger animals and he will take a girl but she needs to have lots of large animal experience beforehand.
 
:/ And that is why girls like me wonder if it's worth trying to convince anyone you want to be an LA vet...
 
I think you're LA experience will make you more of a hot commodity than being male. I found that with all of my applications, I always had to prove myself just as much as any other female applicant did, and I never once had any sort of mention about my gender. In fact, I was told at a file review that I was only 1 point (not sure out of how many, think she said about 150?) away from getting an interview at U Minn. If there were any preference for males, I figure that would have kicked me over that barrier.

Large animal experience is a whole different thing. That, and research, seem to be the real attention getters.
 
Yes, my opinion, there is a preferance for males in the application process and salary as a vet. However, it's not a bad thing, it's because the pool of applicants and students used to be mostly males. Now, there are far more female applicants to male applicants. Therefore, your spot could be taken by a male if your qualifications are roughly similar. They want a diverse student body and being in vet school myself, the majority of students were female. There were only a few guys.

Salary wise, I was told last year by the vet school that males can make roughly $10k more than a female for the same position. However, this applies to all fields of careers. There is more of a shortage with males, keep that in mind. We girls can do the same things.
 
vettobe2016 said:
They want a diverse student body and being in vet school myself, the majority of students were female. There were only a few guys.
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what?? you're already in vet school? then why does your status say pre-vet and you started a thread requesting all of us to rank the vet schools to help you choose the vet school you should apply to?
 
rileyroo said:
what?? you're already in vet school? then why does your status say pre-vet and you started a thread requesting all of us to rank the vet schools to help you choose the vet school you should apply to?
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I sense a potential troll. Dundundunnnn.

Is it already that time of year again? lol
 
One can only hope. *cocks shotgun*

One can only hope.
 
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