Is there a tougher time getting residency and finding a job as a DO?

[soundofwonder]

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My mother and father were strongly trying to convince me that DOs wouldn't get a job or that it was tougher time getting a job as a DO. I know the former isn't true (DOs wouldn't get a job) and but I'm not so sure about the latter (DOs have a tougher time finding a job?) I know the DO I shadowed is the Emergency Department Director at our local hospital, and I see several DOs practicing through the hospital on the faculty. Also at the pharmacy I work at, I often see prescriptions written by DOs. So I know DOs get jobs, but is there a tougher time for DOs to get a job?

I don't think so because I often see job postings for hospitals and see MD/DO?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No. You'll have more job offers than you'll know what to do with, regardless of specialty.

The only time this is true is if you are applying to academic faculty positions at MD institutions and perhaps if you are trying to join very selective and coveted private practice groups in highly desirable geographical locations.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Tell your parents MDs and DOs aren't treated differently once you complete a residency. That's one thing the residency merger is good for.

 

[Goro]

My mother and father were strongly trying to convince me that DOs wouldn't get a job or that it was tougher time getting a job as a DO. I know the former isn't true (DOs wouldn't get a job) and but I'm not so sure about the latter (DOs have a tougher time finding a job?) I know the DO I shadowed is the Emergency Department Director at our local hospital, and I see several DOs practicing through the hospital on the faculty. Also at the pharmacy I work at, I often see prescriptions written by DOs. So I know DOs get jobs, but is there a tougher time for DOs to get a job?

I don't think so because I often see job postings for hospitals and see MD/DO?

Ahhh, parents. Doing their best out of love and ignorance to forever prevent you from becoming a doctor.

Get them accounts on SDN and we'll teach them the errors of their ways.

 

[DO_or_Die]

My mother and father were strongly trying to convince me that DOs wouldn't get a job or that it was tougher time getting a job as a DO. I know the former isn't true (DOs wouldn't get a job) and but I'm not so sure about the latter (DOs have a tougher time finding a job?) I know the DO I shadowed is the Emergency Department Director at our local hospital, and I see several DOs practicing through the hospital on the faculty. Also at the pharmacy I work at, I often see prescriptions written by DOs. So I know DOs get jobs, but is there a tougher time for DOs to get a job?

I don't think so because I often see job postings for hospitals and see MD/DO?

I wouldn't think so, I'm a registered nurse (applying DO) but half the Attendings I work with are MD and half are DO. I only know this now because I bothered to look after I started applying. There are many jobs available in healthcare, I had 8 job offers as a new nurse and I can't imagine being a new doctor would be any different.

 

[soundofwonder]

@Goro My mom said no lol

 

[soundofwonder]

I wouldn't think so, I'm a registered nurse (applying DO) but half the Attendings I work with are MD and half are DO. I only know this now because I bothered to look after I started applying. There are many jobs available in healthcare, I had 8 job offers as a new nurse and I can't imagine being a new doctor would be any different.

Thank you!

 

[Alkain]

My mother and father were strongly trying to convince me that DOs wouldn't get a job or that it was tougher time getting a job as a DO. I know the former isn't true (DOs wouldn't get a job) and but I'm not so sure about the latter (DOs have a tougher time finding a job?) I know the DO I shadowed is the Emergency Department Director at our local hospital, and I see several DOs practicing through the hospital on the faculty. Also at the pharmacy I work at, I often see prescriptions written by DOs. So I know DOs get jobs, but is there a tougher time for DOs to get a job?

I don't think so because I often see job postings for hospitals and see MD/DO?

So, getting certain residencies are definitely harder as a DO with the difficulty increasing the more competitive a residency is or desirable the location/prestige. In that sense, yes it is tougher to get a residency as a DO.

Based on match reports the most DO friendly (80-90% match rate) specialties are in descending order:
Path
IM
Child Neurology
Neurology
FM
Anesthesiology
Peds
Rads
EM

Doable (60-70% match rate):
Psych
PM&R
OBGYN

and then difficult (15-50% match rate):
GS
Derm
Neurosurg
Ortho
IR

Compare that to MD match where everything is 80%+ match rate (except IR)


Once you find a residency though, your degree won't really matter. If you have any interest in the more competitive specialties then I'd strongly suggest trying to go MD first.

 

[soundofwonder]

So, getting certain residencies are definitely harder as a DO with the difficulty increasing the more competitive a residency is or desirable the location/prestige. In that sense, yes it is tougher to get a residency as a DO.

Based on match reports the most DO friendly (80-90% match rate) specialties are in descending order:
Path
IM
Child Neurology
Neurology
FM
Anesthesiology
Peds
Rads
EM

Doable (60-70% match rate):
Psych
PM&R
OBGYN

and then difficult (15-50% match rate):
GS
Derm
Neurosurg
Ortho
IR

Compare that to MD match where everything is 80%+ match rate (except IR)


Once you find a residency though, your degree won't really matter. If you have any interest in the more competitive specialties then I'd strongly suggest trying to go MD first.

Thank you, I do an interest in the competitive specialties... I don't quite understand the reason between the MD and DO match difference. For example, if two people have the same stats USMLE scores and maybe publications and good letters than why is there a difference in matching to competitive specialties. I do see a difference in research and publications cause the MD schools from my understanding have alot more research going on and opportunities compared to DO schools, which sucks... but beyond research and publications is having good Step scores enough to match into a competitive specialty at a good location? Are some places still biased towards accepting only MD graduates?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thank you, I do an interest in the competitive specialties... I don't quite understand the reason between the MD and DO match difference. For example, if two people have the same stats USMLE scores and maybe publications and good letters than why is there a difference in matching to competitive specialties. I do see a difference in research and publications cause the MD schools from my understanding have alot more research going on and opportunities compared to DO schools, which sucks... but beyond research and publications is having good Step scores enough to match into a competitive specialty at a good location? Are some places still biased towards accepting only MD graduates?

No, absolutely not.

 

[Goro]

Are some places still biased towards accepting only MD graduates?

Yes, for two reasons:
The spotty quality of clinical education at a fair number of DO schools

The fear of PDs that elitist MD grads may think that there is something wrong with their program because Gawd forbid, there are DOs there.

 

[MiaMia14]

I just started my first attending job. Every job I applied for I got an interview at, out of those, I got an offer from every one. No issue whatsoever in terms of getting a job. I wasn’t asked about my degree once while job hunting.

Getting to that point was definitely a bit harder than my MD counterparts but still not ridiculous (obgyn). The match was more nerve wracking than anything else but that’s true for anyone. I had realistic expectations regarding what my options were as far as residency and ended up at a program where I got very good training but isn’t necessarily “prestigious”. I was never very concerned about that. Overall, DO got me everything I wanted in terms of my career and I am now very happy with my job. Be ready to work for it though regardless of your route...nothing will be handed to you even if you go to an MD school.

 

[PikminOC]

Med School Enrollment Expands, Concern for Residency Slots Lingers

Enrollment in US medical schools has grown by 31% since 2002, but averting a physician shortage hinges on boosting the number of residency training slots.

www.medscape.com

 

[Bacchus]

I wish. My gmail is so bloated with emails.

 

[Medic741]

My mother and father were strongly trying to convince me that DOs wouldn't get a job or that it was tougher time getting a job as a DO. I know the former isn't true (DOs wouldn't get a job) and but I'm not so sure about the latter (DOs have a tougher time finding a job?) I know the DO I shadowed is the Emergency Department Director at our local hospital, and I see several DOs practicing through the hospital on the faculty. Also at the pharmacy I work at, I often see prescriptions written by DOs. So I know DOs get jobs, but is there a tougher time for DOs to get a job?

I don't think so because I often see job postings for hospitals and see MD/DO?

DO’s can also bill for OMM at $70/body region which can double PCP income if used frequently.

OMM docs also make ~$300/h with schedules that are filling slots 1-1.5 mo out. It’s crazy.

 

[Kardio]

DO’s can also bill for OMM at $70/body region which can double PCP income if used frequently.

OMM docs also make ~$300/h with schedules that are filling slots 1-1.5 mo out. It’s crazy.

Can OMM docs really pull $600k/yr working 40h/wk...?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Med School Enrollment Expands, Concern for Residency Slots Lingers

Enrollment in US medical schools has grown by 31% since 2002, but averting a physician shortage hinges on boosting the number of residency training slots.

www.medscape.com

There's a good chance this will pass though due to bipartisanship.

S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

Summary of S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

www.congress.gov

 

[PikminOC]

There's a good chance this will pass though due bipartisanship.

S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

Summary of S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

www.congress.gov

Please keep us updated. And let's see how long it takes if it happens


Where's the money coming from to pay for it?

 

[Alkain]

I doubt this’ll be put into effect in time for anyone graduating before 2025 to benefit.

Where's the money coming from to pay for it?

We’ll borrow it like how we pay for everything else.

 

[PikminOC]

I doubt this’ll be put into effect in time for anyone graduating before 2025 to benefit.

We’ll borrow it like how we pay for everything else.

We'll see what happens. Undermining and investigating Trump seems to be Congress 24 hour job

 

[Cornfed101]

Can OMM docs really pull $600k/yr working 40h/wk...?

Unfortunately administrative work (charting) is paid $0, so you wouldn’t make $600k, but with a quick search on indeed, the first job listed is $350k as an OMM specialist.

 

[deleted807068]

So, getting certain residencies are definitely harder as a DO with the difficulty increasing the more competitive a residency is or desirable the location/prestige. In that sense, yes it is tougher to get a residency as a DO.

Based on match reports the most DO friendly (80-90% match rate) specialties are in descending order:
Path
IM
Child Neurology
Neurology
FM
Anesthesiology
Peds
Rads
EM

Doable (60-70% match rate):
Psych
PM&R
OBGYN

and then difficult (15-50% match rate):
GS
Derm
Neurosurg
Ortho
IR

Compare that to MD match where everything is 80%+ match rate (except IR)


Once you find a residency though, your degree won't really matter. If you have any interest in the more competitive specialties then I'd strongly suggest trying to go MD first.

Hey! Could I get the source for this? Also, is there a discrimination in attending pay between residency programs? For example, 1 candidate does EM at a top tier residency program vs another candidate does EM at a mid tier. Is there a pay gap between the candidate's salaries post residency?

 

[Chibucks15]

Hey! Could I get the source for this? Also, is there a discrimination in attending pay between residency programs? For example, 1 candidate does EM at a top tier residency program vs another candidate does EM at a mid tier. Is there a pay gap between the candidate's salaries post residency?

No not really. The only way it makes a difference is in academics, where prestige rules the world. And even then you aren't paid different, you just get more opportunities in academic medicine. If that isn't a priority for you it doesnt matter. At least to my knowledge

 

[Kardio]

Hey! Could I get the source for this? Also, is there a discrimination in attending pay between residency programs? For example, 1 candidate does EM at a top tier residency program vs another candidate does EM at a mid tier. Is there a pay gap between the candidate's salaries post residency?

Look up NRMP Charting Outcomes Osteopathic

 

[Goro]

DO’s can also bill for OMM at $70/body region which can double PCP income if used frequently.

OMM docs also make ~$300/h with schedules that are filling slots 1-1.5 mo out. It’s crazy.

An OMM doc is a well to do area can make as much as any decent dermatologist, and have less overhead as well.

Come to think of it, OMM and psychiatry are the only specialties you can do anywhere in the world.

 

[Kardio]

An OMM doc is a well to do area can make as much as any decent dermatologist, and have less overhead as well.

Does this style of practice tend to raise eyebrows?

 

[Cornfed101]

Does this style of practice tend to raise eyebrows?

whose eyebrows are we talking about here? I’m sure a cosmetic plastic surgeon raises eyebrows, but I don’t think the surgeon cares

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does this style of practice tend to raise eyebrows?

I would never refer a patient to you, that's for sure.

 

[Medic741]

Does this style of practice tend to raise eyebrows?

Nope. And their patients *love* them. At first I was skeptical but having seen function drastically improve after treatment I think it really does good for their patients, especially the elderly.

So no, they're not batting an eye at dropping $100+ for a 20 minute appointment.

 

[Chibucks15]

Nope. And their patients *love* them. At first I was skeptical but having seen function drastically improve after treatment I think it really does good for their patients, especially the elderly.

So no, they're not batting an eye at dropping $100+ for a 20 minute appointment.

That's kinda my mindset. Obviously I ain't doing Chapmans nonsense or cranial, but hey if a patient wants some of the MSK stuff, and I can bill extra to insurance for it, why not?

 

[Medic741]

That's kinda my mindset. Obviously I ain't doing Chapmans nonsense or cranial, but hey if a patient wants some of the MSK stuff, and I can bill extra to insurance for it, why not?

We need more DO students with this totally reasonable mindset lol 😀

 

[Kardio]

I would never refer a patient to you, that's for sure.

Nope. And their patients *love* them. At first I was skeptical but having seen function drastically improve after treatment I think it really does good for their patients, especially the elderly.

So no, they're not batting an eye at dropping $100+ for a 20 minute appointment.

Multiple perspectives, gotchas.

 

[hallowmann]

There's a good chance this will pass though due to bipartisanship.

S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

Summary of S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

www.congress.gov

They try to pass these every year or two. I have yet to see one pass. I've seen a couple pass on the state level, but not federal.

Hey! Could I get the source for this? Also, is there a discrimination in attending pay between residency programs? For example, 1 candidate does EM at a top tier residency program vs another candidate does EM at a mid tier. Is there a pay gap between the candidate's salaries post residency?

You get paid based on the job and how much experience (as in years out of training) you have. A lot of EM docs aren't even employed by hospitals, they are employed by EM groups that contract with hospitals to provide that service.

 

[Mad Jack]

There's a good chance this will pass though due to bipartisanship.

S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

Summary of S.348 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2019

www.congress.gov

Can we not? There's more than enough physicians, they're just clustered in the coasts. More residencies (3,000 positions per year for that matter) could flood certain fields

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Can we not? There's more than enough physicians, they're just clustered in the coasts. More residencies (3,000 positions per year for that matter) could flood certain fields

I know some MD/DOs who are for this because it means that mid-levels won't be used as much. I'm pretty the same MDs/DOs would be against this if they knew that salaries would probably drop for each field maybe 60-80k in each field.