Is there a training program for psychiatry PAs?

[priorities2]

Does such a program exist? Would it be possible for PAs to prescribe medications and offer counseling if they specialize in psychiatry?

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[deleted6669]

there are 2 psych postgrad programs. find them here www.appap.org
there is also a psych pa association
and yes, psych pa's practice full scope psychiatry.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

I don't know what you mean by "counseling" but I don't see how a PA can ethically practice psychotherapy without some sort of structured training and coursework. That's not exactly "on the job" learning.

 

[Makati2008]

I don't know what you mean by "counseling" but I don't see how a PA can ethically practice psychotherapy without some sort of structured training and coursework. That's not exactly "on the job" learning.

What if that is a part of the P.A.'s education? For example, they set up their final electives to have a focus in that area of medicine,would you think that would be a suitable foundation for them to practice pyschotherapy then?

 

[deleted6669]

what if that is a part of the p.a.'s education? For example, they set up their final electives to have a focus in that area of medicine,would you think that would be a suitable foundation for them to practice pyschotherapy then?

...or if they completed a 1 yr postgrad psych training program and passed the specialty caq exam in psych?
DESCRIPTION OF ONE SUCH PROGRAM:
The program is 12 months in duration and emphasizes differential diagnosis, medical management with the use of psychotropic medications and fundamentals of the interpersonal process. Areas of focus include adult and child/adolescent inpatient services, as well as outpatient case management. This offers experience in both the acute and chronic management of illness

THIS IS FROM ANOTHER PROGRAM:
PA fellows will rotate along with psychiatry residents through various inpatient and outpatient services. While the curriculum can be individually structured to some extent, it has typically consisted of:
Inpatient rotations (total of 5 months)
• 1 month in inpatient psychotic disorders unit
• 1 month in inpatient geriatric psychiatry unit
• 1 month in inpatient mood disorders unit
• 1 month in inpatient child psychiatry unit
• 1 month in dual diagnosis (substance abuse and mental health) partial hospital program
Outpatient rotations: (total of 7 months)
• Adult outpatient clinic (3 days / week)
• Child outpatient clinic (1 day / week)
• Telepsychiatry and outreach clinics (1 day/week)

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

What if that is a part of the P.A.'s education? For example, they set up their final electives to have a focus in that area of medicine,would you think that would be a suitable foundation for them to practice pyschotherapy then?

As far as I cann tell, it isn't part of PA school, just like providing psychotherapy is not a part of medical school. If you were to complete extra training or residency where you are trained to competently provide psychotherapy, learn about different modalities, receive supervised training hours, etc., then that's fantastic. The lack of therapy traning (and overall coursework related to psych) is what lead me to pursue NP instead of PA, since psych NPs are licensed and trained to provide at least two different types of therapy by law. For example, in my program we're trained to provide CBT, motivational interviewing, and family systems therapy. I'm not sure if an elective in PA school would train you to provide psychotherapy, it might just focus on assessment and med management... you'd probably have to ask.

However, I gotta say, I cannot imagine a psych PA being able to ethically provide psychotherapy unless they had completed a program or residency that taught them to do it, just like physicians don't provide psychotherapy without completion of a psychiatry residency. Anyway, good luck!

 

[Makati2008]

As far as I cann tell, it isn't part of PA school, just like providing psychotherapy is not a part of medical school. If you were to complete extra training or residency where you are trained to competently provide psychotherapy, learn about different modalities, receive supervised training hours, etc., then that's fantastic. The lack of therapy traning (and overall coursework related to psych) is what lead me to pursue NP instead of PA, since psych NPs are licensed and trained to provide at least two different types of therapy by law. For example, in my program we're trained to provide CBT, motivational interviewing, and family systems therapy. I'm not sure if an elective in PA school would train you to provide psychotherapy, it might just focus on assessment and med management... you'd probably have to ask.

However, I gotta say, I cannot imagine a psych PA being able to ethically provide psychotherapy unless they had completed a program or residency that taught them to do it, just like physicians don't provide psychotherapy without completion of a psychiatry residency. Anyway, good luck!

Makes sense. Good luck.

 

[deleted6669]

the few pa's I know who work in psych all had prior psych backgrounds before pa school and then did extensive supervised ojt and/or a residency. agree that right out of pa school psych isn't a great option. I also know a few pa's who work for inpt psych depts doing only the primary care piece of the job(managing their htn, dm, etc).

 

[priorities2]

As far as I cann tell, it isn't part of PA school, just like providing psychotherapy is not a part of medical school. If you were to complete extra training or residency where you are trained to competently provide psychotherapy, learn about different modalities, receive supervised training hours, etc., then that's fantastic. The lack of therapy traning (and overall coursework related to psych) is what lead me to pursue NP instead of PA, since psych NPs are licensed and trained to provide at least two different types of therapy by law. For example, in my program we're trained to provide CBT, motivational interviewing, and family systems therapy. I'm not sure if an elective in PA school would train you to provide psychotherapy, it might just focus on assessment and med management... you'd probably have to ask.

However, I gotta say, I cannot imagine a psych PA being able to ethically provide psychotherapy unless they had completed a program or residency that taught them to do it, just like physicians don't provide psychotherapy without completion of a psychiatry residency. Anyway, good luck!

Cool, that is really useful info. What about an LCSW or LMFT+PA school? Would that be a pretty lucrative way to prescribe and provide therapy? Or RN+LCSW or LMFT?

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

Cool, that is really useful info. What about an LCSW or LMFT+PA school? Would that be a pretty lucrative way to prescribe and provide therapy? Or RN+LCSW or LMFT?

Honestly, if you want to be able to prescribe and provide therapy, getting two different degrees (one for the prescribing and another for the therapy) is a very inefficient way to go about doing things, especially since you can easily do both with one degree. I'd recommend either going for psychiatry (MD/DO) or psych nurse practitioner. You can do therapy and med management with either degree. Or you can go for PA, but you will have to be very proactive about finding a residency or postgrad program that will focus your training on psychotherapy, I'm not even sure they exist.

As emedpa said, it might be difficult to get trained up to provide psychotherapy as a PA. I know that psych tends to be dominated by NPs, not so much PAs. Like I said, I was pursuing PA school for a while (I was interested in emergency medicine), but when I decided to stick with psych it was clear to me that NP was the more straightforward path between the two. If you're absolutely certain you want psych, I'd recommend NP (or MD/DO, if you're willing and able). If you're unsure or are interested in several areas of medicine, then PA is the way to go, it's very flexible. As a NP you are locked into your specialty and have to get extra schooling/clinical hours if you want to change, whereas PAs are trained in all areas from the get go (which is why they get more clinical hours). Good luck deciding.

Do you already have your bachelors?

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

Makes sense. Good luck.

thanks! Supposedly the market and need for psych NPs is looking really good right now, I hope it will be that way in several years...

 

[zenman]

thanks! Supposedly the market and need for psych NPs is looking really good right now, I hope it will be that way in several years...

I'm a psych NP and I continue to get job offers all the time.