Is there even a silver lining?

[Alshera]

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I am begining to wonder if my application will even be looked at by adcoms for medical school. I graduated with a 2.97, 2.8 BCPM, and I'm going to retake the MCAT in July. I have pretty good EC's and I have been published as well. I got into Indiana University pre-professional master's program conditionally, because I don't have a 3.0 (200th's of a point!) so I'm wondering if adcom's will even look at my application because of my low gpa. Should I just give in... I'm also considering DO school, but I'd love to have an MD degree. Any advice would be very greatly appreciated. I think I need a hug 🙁

 

[Sir Buckethead]

you're cute?

 

[Auraraptor]

How was your MCAT first time through?

Did you consider a Post Bac program to raise your GPA?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Unfortunately, many schools have automatic cutoffs below a 3.00 as there are just too many applications for them to look at throughly. Sounds like you need to do some post baccalaureate work or look into an SMP/Formal Post-Bacc program.

 

[NervousNed]

honestly if your MCAT is less than 30 its gonna be some problems

 

[Tired Pigeon]

To be honest I don't think it's gonna happen this year, at least for MD. But, you DID get into the pre-professional master's program. The silver lining you're looking for? If you really excel in this program and strive to get the most out of it, you'll have more knowledge and more maturity when you DO start med school.

Hang in there and stay focused on what's important to you.🙂

 

[jstuds_66]

you're cute?

Is that supposed to be a question or a statement?


Think about it really hard: If you were conditionally accepted into a Master's Program, how do you think an ADCOM will react?

 

[jochi1543]

I'd not apply this year, it'd just be a waste of $$$. Even with DO, I don't think you'll make it. How's your MCAT? I'd definitely do the SMP. See what your GPAs will look like if you get all As in your SMP. I bet it'll be high enough to be competitive to at least for DO, and if you do well on your MCAT, you might try your state MD school and some of the schools with lower stats (e.g. Rosalind Franklin) next year.

 

[sendwich]

for now, focus on kicking some major butt in the masters program and apply, at the earliest, next year (after at least a year's worth of great grades). applying this year isn't going to be too much fun. save yourself the $$$ and the emotional rollercoaster.

 

[gary5]

I would just apply to DO schools, but first find out what their GPA ranges are.

 

[Fermata]

A year's worth of straight A's would only raise your GPA to around a 3.2.

You need to do really well on the MCAT to stand a chance at a U.S. MD school.

 

[Sir Buckethead]

"Is that supposed to be a question or a statement?"

Both. The question is if she would consider it a silver lining.

 

[Depakote]

Right now, a GPA less than 3.0 will hurt your chances, even at many DO programs.

Your best bet is to take more classes, either via a formal post-bac program or a SMP. At this stage, it does sound like the SMP is your better option as it will show you can study and succeed at a medical school level.

The problem with this, if I'm not mistaken, is that a SMP will be considered a Graduate program and it will not raise your undergrauate GPA. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Right now, a GPA less than 3.0 will hurt your chances, even at many DO programs.

Your best bet is to take more classes, either via a formal post-bac program or a SMP. At this stage, it does sound like the SMP is your better option as it will show you can study and succeed at a medical school level.

The problem with this, if I'm not mistaken, is that a SMP will be considered a Graduate program and it will not raise your undergrauate GPA. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

Yep. Unless you are a Texas Resident doing the TMDSAS, graduate GPAs do not factor into undergrad/overall GPA.

SMP/grad school is the way to go, just make sure if it's the latter to make it chock full with science courses.

 

[148249]

.

 

[TheRealMD]

I haven't gone through the application process yet, however, I have been researching schools a little bit to see requirements.

I would strive to improve your GPA. I think the cut-off for most Apps. is a 3.0 average with at least a C in all classes for MD or DO programs.

Another factor to consider is-
Aren't DO programs less respected than MDs?

Oy, unless you want to start a flame war here on SDN, I wouldn't say that DOs are less respected than MDs.

 

[148249]

.

 

[Meatwad]

For the most part, I agree with the advice people have given that with a sub-3.0 you are going to have a hard time even having your app looked at. However, after perusing mdapplicants (assuming the accounts are not phony), it seems that some people did at least get interviews with sub-3.0 averages. If this is true, just apply to the schools they applied to, if you're dead set on applying somewhere, and see what happens. Some of them even got accepted a couple of places. It's a REALLY long shot, but if you just want to tell yourself that at least you tried, I'd suggest looking at those schools who accepted people with very low GPA's.

 

[Meatwad]

yes- maybe I should re-word that.

I have heard it is harder to get a place in highly competitive residencies.

Getting into a competitive residency is very hard no matter what your degree is. I don't buy the whole "it's harder as a DO," argument. As far as the statistics go, there may be fewer DOs in ortho or derm, but this doesn't mean that it's harder for them to get in. It could be from a variety of factors. For example, DO schools tend to accept people with lower GPAs/MCAT scores. These students, when it comes time to take their COMLEX/USMLE tests, maybe didn't score as high as the competition (they have historically had lower grades and test scores, so it's not difficult to imagine this). With mediocre test scores, you have basically no shot at certain residencies. In this sense, you kept yourself out of rads/ortho/derm/etc., not the two letters after your name.

 

[Alshera]

Thank you so much for your responses. The SMP I'm going to do is all science classes, so thats a good thing. As far as my undergrad gpa, there's no way to change it now. So what should I do other than the SMP? I've done all the shadowing, ec's, I've even been published in a medical journal. So there's no point in applying this year to either DO or MD schools, regardless of my MCAT score?
Is there anyone who didn't have a 3.0 who go into to medical school (DO or MD) on here?
As far as DO's, I agree with what was posted, its difficult to get a residency period whether your a DO or an MD. In the end its your USMLE scores that decide how much you know regardless of which degree you have.
As for being cute, thank you for the compliment, but it's only a silver lining if looks get me into a school.

 

[armybound]

Yep. Unless you are a Texas Resident doing the TMDSAS, graduate GPAs do not factor into undergrad/overall GPA.

SMP/grad school is the way to go, just make sure if it's the latter to make it chock full with science courses.

whoa, graduate work counts in Texas?

 

[Alshera]

I've heard TX has some of the best programs for medicine, so I'm assuming they are very difficult to get into? Or is that something I should look into post-MS program?

 

[armybound]

I've heard TX has some of the best programs for medicine, so I'm assuming they are very difficult to get into? Or is that something I should look into post-MS program?

the TX schools are required to accept at least 90% from in-state residents, so if you're out of state it is pretty difficult to get in.

 

[Alshera]

How do you look at applicant's gpa's and what schools they applied too?

 

[armybound]

you can look through www.mdapplicants.com

 

[Meatwad]

Go to mdapplicants.com and under the search profiles area, where the GPA box is, enter 3.0 for "under," and you will get a list of peoples' stats. Here are some examples I've just found:

01611 Boston University, 39 MCAT, 2.85 GPA, applied 2004
02112 Carnegie Mellon University, 40 MCAT, 2.92 GPA, applied 2005
03570 Cornell University, 37 MCAT, 2.96 GPA, applied 2006
01992 Harvard University, 39 MCAT, 2.95 GPA, applied 2005
00115 MIT, 37 MCAT, 2.78 GPA, applied 2002
01111 UC Berkeley, 40 MCAT, 3.00 GPA, applied 2004
02258 UC Berkeley, 36 MCAT, 2.90 GPA, applied 2005
01738 UC Berkeley, 37 MCAT, 2.49 GPA, applied 2000
As you can see, these kids all went to very prestigous undergrad institutions; I'd imagine going to MIT and getting a 2.78 still takes a lot of work. On top of that, they all have very high MCAT scores. On top of that, some of them have advanced degrees. Even so, they still only get a couple of acceptances.

There are some profiles that have <3.0 GPA and an average/low MCAT score, but they seem to have master's/SMPs AND are URM, from what I've seen. So it is definitely possible to get past a screen with a sub-3.0 GPA, apparently. I don't know if the screen accounts for undergrad reputation, though.

For example, maybe the computer program is told only to allow sub-3.0 applications through if you went to a university that they classify as top-15 (Harvard, Yale, Columbia, MIT, Berkeley, etc. etc.). Even so, it's obviously a long shot.

Long story short, if you have some money you don't mind parting with, take a chance. I'm not going to tell you not to apply, because you never know what could happen. Realistically, though, if you don't get a high MCAT (like over 35), then you probably don't have much of a chance. If I were you, I'd take some undergrad courses just to hit that 3.0, and then do an SMP. Good luck.

 

[Green Pirate]

wow... all the people with sub-3.0 acceptances have insanely high MCAT scores. wow.

 

[Alshera]

Long story short, if you have some money you don't mind parting with, take a chance. I'm not going to tell you not to apply, because you never know what could happen. Realistically, though, if you don't get a high MCAT (like over 35), then you probably don't have much of a chance. If I were you, I'd take some undergrad courses just to hit that 3.0, and then do an SMP. Good luck.[/QUOTE]


I've already graduated, so I can't change my undergrad GPA, I'm already accepted into a SMP. I was wondering what ELSE I can do, is it worth retaking some ug science classes even though they wont effect my ug gpa?

 

[jochi1543]

I've already graduated, so I can't change my undergrad GPA, I'm already accepted into a SMP. I was wondering what ELSE I can do, is it worth retaking some ug science classes even though they wont effect my ug gpa?

No, undergraduate classes WILL affect your undergrad GPA. SMP won't.

 

[armybound]

post-bacs will affect your ugpa

 

[jochi1543]

post-bacs will affect your ugpa

Are you saying an SMP will, or are you just referring to informal post-bacs here?

 

[Meatwad]

Long story short, if you have some money you don't mind parting with, take a chance. I'm not going to tell you not to apply, because you never know what could happen. Realistically, though, if you don't get a high MCAT (like over 35), then you probably don't have much of a chance. If I were you, I'd take some undergrad courses just to hit that 3.0, and then do an SMP. Good luck.

I've already graduated, so I can't change my undergrad GPA, I'm already accepted into a SMP. I was wondering what ELSE I can do, is it worth retaking some ug science classes even though they wont effect my ug gpa?[/quote]

Like the army and jochi said... your undergrad is not set in stone once you graduate. Any undergrad courses you take even after you graduate, at any institution, will affect your undergrad gpa.

 

[Meatwad]

wow... all the people with sub-3.0 acceptances have insanely high MCAT scores. wow.

Yeah, definitely.

 

[killinsound]

wow... all the people with sub-3.0 acceptances have insanely high MCAT scores. wow.

also notice how there are only a handful

 

[TheRealMD]

also notice how there are only a handful

And if they were engineering majors, I could probably understand that even more.

 

[Alshera]

Maybe it's just IU? I called them to see what I could do as far as my UG gpa went, they said I can continue taking UG classes, but on my transcript the same gpa will show up that I graduated with, and there will be an additional transcript that will be a "continuing education" transcript. IU also doesn't let you replace classes if you take the same class over 😡

if someone thinks i've been told wrong by IU please let me know!

 

[armybound]

Are you saying an SMP will, or are you just referring to informal post-bacs here?

as far as I know a SMP is a Masters Program, so it's not a post-bac.

 

[ds3489]

Hi,

It's true, taking courses at post-pac won't change the official undergrad GPA that you graduated with. However, if you take undergrad courses in a continuing education or post-bac setting...this will add into your overall undergrad AMCAS GPA, which is what it looked at. For instance, I graduated with an undergrad, a masters and am now taking post-bac undergrad. Even though my GPA from true undergrad was determined when I graduated, these post-bac courses will change that when calcuted by amcas for the actual application. However, my grad school classes will remain in a separate column. In addition to adding the post-bacs to the undergrad, AMCAS also creates a sep. column for those post-bac courses by themselves. Hope that helps. I'd go for the post bac!

 

[Alshera]

Do schools not care about the gpa on the transcript?
I could give you a BIG HUG for telling me about how post bacc's affect your gpa, if only I had know that months ago! I heart you ds3489

 

[armybound]

the schools look at all of your grades collected on your AMCAS application, so it's not necessarily directly what's on your transcript. they do their own GPA calculation.

 

[ds3489]

Hey again, I'm glad to have helped!

Anyhow, the transcripts from your colleges are never seen by the medical schools. You have to manually type in the grades you received on the online amcas application. You only send your transcripts to AMCAS who then checks to make sure that you wrote the correct information in regards to your classes/grades. AMCAS then calculates a GPA for you (science/overall) and this is the only GPA that med schools see. Could you imagine if each school had to receive all of the transcripts? That would be a mess of paperwork! The only official transcripts that medical schools should ever see are those that you send out if taking a class while applying--to let the school know that you've received another grade in addition to what what submitted. Good luck and I hope this continues to help in your endeavors! 😉

 

[Alshera]

Does anyone know the avg mcat/gpa for carribean schools?

 

[Meatwad]

Does anyone know the avg mcat/gpa for carribean schools?

Check the Caribbean forums, or if you want real comprehensive info, go over to valuemd.com. It's a message board dedicated to foreign (90% Caribbean) medical schools. Ross/St. George's/Saba/AUC will have decent stats for applicants, whereas the no-name schools that are only a couple of years old will basically take anyone. I've heard of people getting into the better Carib schools with low GPAs (sub-3.0), but they might have stronger MCAT scores or interviewed really well.

If you need numbers really quick to give you an idea, I'd ballpark that SGU is around 3.3-3.4 with a 26, Ross probably a hair lower on both accounts, and AUC around 3.1 and a 22.

 

[armybound]

Is that supposed to be a question or a statement?

definitely a statement

 

[Alshera]

If I wait a year to apply, is changing my UG gpa more important or going ahead to the SMP? I can do both, but I wont be able to retake UG classes until the summer of '08 and that means I wont have the updated gpa until june of 2008... any suggestions? or I can take ug classes this coming fall, and not do the smp.

 

[armybound]

what did you get on the MCAT the first time you took it?

 

[Alshera]

27, but i dont remeber the breakdown

 

[armybound]

well you need to get both the GPA and MCAT up.

If I were in your position and you are willing to give it the time necessary, I'd probably take some post-bac classes, retake the MCAT, and then apply to a SMP.

 

[Meatwad]

well you need to get both the GPA and MCAT up.

If I were in your position and you are willing to give it the time necessary, I'd probably take some post-bac classes, retake the MCAT, and then apply to a SMP.

^ Definitely agree with that, unless you are really impatient and want to go to the Caribbean (wouldn't reccomend that yet).

 

[Alshera]

How important is the BCPM gpa versus the ug gpa?