Is there some sort of strict list of extracurriculars every medical school applicant needs to have done?

[doctorrr-t]

Basically title. I'm seeing a bunch of posts about medical school applicants that have done very similar, if not the same, set of extracurricular activities-- research, volunteering, shadowing, etc. Is there some sort of list of general extracurriculars that we are expected to have? If so many applicants have similar activities, how are ways we can distinguish ourselves? I'm a first-year undergrad student right now, so I'm just beginning to dip my toes into this whole process and I would appreciate any tips or advice. Thanks!

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[gopher1997]

it is believed that you need to have a benchmark of hours for certain activities (research is usually not one of them depending on your school list - that's usually seen as a bonus). Volunteering is a must because you are going into an altruistic profession, so adcoms want to see evidence that you like helping people even if it takes time away from yourself. Shadowing or observing a doctor is necessary because you need to see what a doctor actually does.

What can set you apart from applicants is what you decide to volunteer for i.e. domestic shelter, hospice patients, children's hospital etc., and I also think how to write about these experiences is also important.

I think most adcoms look for some sort of an x-factor when looking at applicants. i.e. "They have what I deem is enough volunteer/shadowing hours and are academically qualified, but what sets them apart?" It could be research, leadership, some cool activity that people don't really do, military, hardships and evidence of overcoming that, etc...

Best piece of advice I would give you is to find activities that you would love to do if you weren't applying for school. For me personally, working with kids was important to me so I volunteered at a children's hospital, shadowed pediatricians, volunteered for an elementary school, helped with research in pediatric oncology, tutored kids, mentored college students (not kids, but peers nonetheless).

If you like underwater basket weaving, make that shine as a passion of yours. If you love to rock climb, make an effort to join a rock climbing club - become the president and then lead a team of students on an expedition! There are so many ways to set yourself apart from other people. To me, that just means staying true to yourself. Don't do something because you think you NEED to, do something because you WANT to.

Good luck!

 

[AMCASTuesdays]

The category of activities are going to be the same more or less (Note though that research isn't strictly required, while shadowing and volunteering definitely are). Within the three broad categories you mentioned there's so much you can do within those! For instance with research: animal, human, plants, wet vs dry clinical vs bench. Volunteering especially can take you pretty much anywhere. More or less, you distinguish yourself by what you take away from the experience, and how well you're able to incorporate that into your drive within this field.

I found employment to be a good way to get neat experiences- there are also some pretty creative ways you can find to get paid, and it never hurts to show that you don't solely eat sleep and breath medicine. I wouldn't worry about it too much now, you've got so much time before you never know peace again.

 

[harvard_of_the_west]

There’s definitely major categories that medical schools want to see. Clinical exposure, leadership experiences, research, and service work are all great to have. It is true though that how you obtain these can really differentiate you from the tens of thousands of other applicants. It’s highly unlikely you’re going to do anything that’s truly unique, so focus more on doing things you’re actually interested in and that you enjoy—especially especially since you’re only a freshman. You have plenty of time to find a few things you’re genuinely passionate about, and that you’ll enjoy committing to for the next few years. That will help you build a narrative of who you are, what makes you special, and what unique strengths/experiences/diversity you’re going to bring to prospective medical schools. Just find something you love and stick with it for the next few years.

Another way to look at it would be to focus your attention on experiences that help you demonstrate the AAMC’s core competencies for entering Medical Students:

Premed Competencies Resources

Learn more about the premed competencies in applying to medical school.

www.aamc.org

 

[harvard_of_the_west]

A summary of what activities and factors ranked by importance from AAMC medical survey can be found below

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Ooooh man this is good! I thought I remembered something like this!

 

[Jungkookie]

You don't need to tick all the same boxes as everyone else, but there are a few broad categories with numerous options in each that you can pursue based on what your passions are and what you'd like to be committed to over a long period of time. The attachment gonnif shared is very helpful as is this page here: How To Select Extracurricular & Volunteer Activities that uses a framework for how to choose your activities (Professionalism, Communicator, Health Advocate, etc) and provides examples of activities under each. Volunteering is super super important, as is experience such as shadowing or clinical volunteering that gives you experience in a clinical setting.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Clinical volunteering
Non-clinical volunteering
shadowing
Research
Leadership
School clubs
Paid clinical experiences (don’t need this but it helps)

At the end of the day do things that you’re passionate about. Don’t do something just because you think it looks good for medical school.

 

[_Cloud9]

At the end of the day do things that you’re passionate about. Don’t do something just because you think it looks good for medical school.

exactly! so many different domains under ECs that you can do, you should pursue opportunities you feel passionate about, ones that you'll be able to speak about excitedly and effectively in your applications because you were genuinely engaged and invested in them

 

[openstage]

I wouldn't say is this on the "must have list," but I think Med Schools are often impressed with some degree of study abroad or international exposure to other cultures.

 

[LizzyM]

Clinical volunteering exposure
Non-clinical volunteering
shadowing
Research
Leadership
School clubs
Something fun
Paid clinical experiences (don’t need this but it helps)

At the end of the day do things that you’re passionate about. Don’t do something just because you think it looks good for medical school.

You don't need clinical volunteering. You need clinical exposure. It can be unpaid (volunteer) or paid. If you have a paying job with patients you don't need to do clinical volunteering on top of that but everyone should have at least a little non-clinical volunteering as a "good citzen" who wants to help people in need.

You don't need school clubs. No one cares. You do need things outside of the usual "pre-med" activities but belonging to a campus club organized around an academic subject or an ethnic group is not essential. Find an activity, on or off campus, that you enjoy and dedicate time to it regularly. It can be performing (drama, music, dance, improv), athletics/physical activity, studio arts (photography, painting, etc), or anything else you enjoy. The point is, to have some healthy way to destress and to engage with others. Some schools actually want to know what you do for fun and how you relax during times of stress.

 

[Moko]

While not mandatory, teaching experience is viewed very positively. This is in addition to what others have already mentioned

 

[Peter Pan.]

You don't need clinical volunteering. You need clinical exposure. It can be unpaid (volunteer) or paid. If you have a paying job with patients you don't need to do clinical volunteering on top of that but everyone should have at least a little non-clinical volunteering as a "good citzen" who wants to help people in need.

You don't need school clubs. No one cares. You do need things outside of the usual "pre-med" activities but belonging to a campus club organized around an academic subject or an ethnic group is not essential. Find an activity, on or off campus, that you enjoy and dedicate time to it regularly. It can be performing (drama, music, dance, improv), athletics/physical activity, studio arts (photography, painting, etc), or anything else you enjoy. The point is, to have some healthy way to destress and to engage with others. Some schools actually want to know what you do for fun and how you relax during times of stress.

No one cares? Lol that’s a stretch. A bunch of things you listed aren’t required either.

 

[Goro]

No one cares? Lol that’s a stretch. A bunch of things you listed aren’t required either.

We prefer candidates who get off campus and out of their comfort zones. Nearly all of the club activities I see people engage in are unimpressive.

The things on LizzyM's list aren't specifically required, but they are still necessary, except maybe the leadership bit.

 

[DrOngoGablogian]

My work/activities listed none of the stuff typically deemed mandatory here and have had a good deal of success so far. Non trad though so of course ymmv. PM for details if desired.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

No one cares? Lol that’s a stretch. A bunch of things you listed aren’t required either.

Checking in with 0 school clubs and 11 IIs + 3 acceptances so far. Most school clubs seemed like a waste of time in college.

 

[openstage]

Although they may not benefit your app, clubs can help with your mental health and stress levels.

 

[Destalchemy]

A summary of what activities and factors ranked by importance from AAMC medical survey can be found below
additional info can be found
https://www.aamc.org/system/files/c...al-shadowing-experience-executive-summary.pdf
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ing-medical-school-2018-amcas-infographic.pdf


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That's the out of date one, no? They dont looks at ugpa

 

[Seihai]

That's the out of date one, no? They dont looks at ugpa

What? Medical schools absolutely look at your undergraduate GPA. It's one of the most important numbers attached to your application, along with your MCAT.

 

[Destalchemy]

Yikes I dont know where I got that from now. Maybe my definition of ugpa was incorrect. I thought it was defined as gpa per college attended. For instance I'd have 3 ugpas - one for my college attended 8 years ago, one for the cc I'm at now, and 1 for the 4 year I'll transfer into. I thought aamc changed it where they merge all those gpas into one - cgpa.

I've seen two of those infographics- one from 2013(?) and one from 2016(?) published a couple years later. I had thought the more recent one had reflected that the aamc only calculates cgpa and sgpa now as the main metrics for performance. Ugpa is looked st but not as important as cgpa and sgpa.This is the one I thought was up to date.

 

[LizzyM]

I always specify "clinical experience" to make it clear to those who have worked for years in direct patient care do not need to do clinical volunteering to mee a clinical "requirement" but they do need volunteerism which may be non-clinical. Such an applicant would, generally, be a non-trad.

 

[Peter Pan.]

We prefer candidates who get off campus and out of their comfort zones. Nearly all of the club activities I see people engage in are unimpressive.

The things on LizzyM's list aren't specifically required, but they are still necessary, except maybe the leadership bit.

The club I was involved in was service-oriented. All of our service activities were off-campus. I also volunteered with a couple organizations off-campus in my own time. And school clubs give you a chance to do all the things on LM's list.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Checking in with 0 school clubs and 11 IIs + 3 acceptances so far. Most school clubs seemed like a waste of time in college.

Thats great but its something you can do if you want. School clubs give you opportunties for service, leadership, teamwork with others, and meeting people on campus. They also give you a chance to partake in hobbies. The opportunities they give you are required but you can get leadership, service, and working with others through other means. Congrats on your cycle!

 

[LizzyM]

Thats great but its something you can do if you want. School clubs give you opportunties for service, leadership, teamwork with others, and meeting people on campus. They also give you a chance to partake in hobbies. The opportunities they give you are required but you can get leadership, service, and working with others through other means. Congrats on your cycle!

School clubs can be all that, or not. And they aren't the only way to engage in service, leadership, teamwork, meeting people on campus, and engaging in a hobby. Ergo, it is not essential that one belong to a club (or clubs) on campus in order to be admitted to medical school.

I'll stick with this edited version of what I posted earlier:

You need clinical exposure.
Everyone should have at least a little non-clinical volunteering as a "good citzen" who wants to help people in need.
Find an activity, on or off campus, that you enjoy and dedicate time to it regularly.
Have some healthy way to destress and to engage with others.

I challenge anyone to say that the 4 items listed above include any that are "not really required".

 

[Rachapkis]

The one thing that I see missing from the posts above, and perhaps that is because it does not exist, is the number of hours at each activity that are generally considered necessary to have met the competency.

 

[Peter Pan.]

School clubs can be all that, or not. And they aren't the only way to engage in service, leadership, teamwork, meeting people on campus, and engaging in a hobby. Ergo, it is not essential that one belong to a club (or clubs) on campus in order to be admitted to medical school.

I'll stick with this edited version of what I posted earlier:

You need clinical exposure.
Everyone should have at least a little non-clinical volunteering as a "good citzen" who wants to help people in need.
Find an activity, on or off campus, that you enjoy and dedicate time to it regularly.
Have some healthy way to destress and to engage with others.

I challenge anyone to say that the 4 items listed above include any that are "not really required".

Lol never said they were the only way. I worked several jobs throughout undergrad and did non-clinical volunteering on my own time as well. I also had a clinical job on top of my clinical volunteering. But joining a school club was one way I got involved on campus and networked with others. I made a mistake in my original post. Didn’t mean to say it was absolutely essential even though I guess I kinda did. But I wouldn’t say no one cares about them either. In both my interviews the school club was brought up in a question about working with others and what I did as a leader during times of conflict. Another question asked what I learned from the experience. They seemed fairly interested in it to me. Lol.

 

[LizzyM]

Lol never said they were the only way. I worked several jobs throughout undergrad and did non-clinical volunteering on my own time as well. I also had a clinical job on top of my clinical volunteering. But joining a school club was one way I got involved on campus and networked with others. I made a mistake in my original post. Didn’t mean to say it was absolutely essential even though I guess I kinda did. But I wouldn’t say no one cares about them either. In both my interviews the school club was brought up in a question about working with others and what I did as a leader during times of conflict. Another question asked what I learned from the experience. They seemed fairly interested in it to me. Lol.

When I say "no one cares" I mean that having or not having club membership on your application is not going to get you an interview or get your application thrown out. It is not a "make or break". If you belonged to a club, sure, it might be something worth asking about in an interview, perhaps even to gauge whether you were actually engaged and involved or if you just wrote it down and didn't really do anything but attend two meetings over the course of the year. (it happens.) Everyone cares about application padding but no one cares if you were engaged in an enjoyable activity that happened to be a campus club.

 

[AMCASTuesdays]

The one thing that I see missing from the posts above, and perhaps that is because it does not exist, is the number of hours at each activity that are generally considered necessary to have met the competency.

There are a lot of general "rules of thumb" flying around here and google that you're safe to follow. But there is no set prescribed number- anecdotally, among the people I know our numbers vary widely. I think for shadowing and volunteering you want to do enough to show consistency and commitment, or enough that you take something away from the experience and speak about that in an app or an interview.

 

[allyallyoxenfree]

think outside the ticked box!! 😀

 

[KnightDoc]

A summary of what activities and factors ranked by importance from AAMC medical survey can be found below
additional info can be found
https://www.aamc.org/system/files/c...al-shadowing-experience-executive-summary.pdf
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ing-medical-school-2018-amcas-infographic.pdf


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I have a question for the adcoms -- @gonnif, @Goro, @LizzyM, @gyngyn -- people keep saying that UG institution doesn't matter, except maybe a little for Ivies at maybe T10 med schools, yet this AAMC chart seems to say while public UG is of low importance (e.g., UC Berkeley vs. Podunk U), private UG is of the highest importance (e.g., Penn vs. a random, low ranked private school), right up there with GPA and MCAT.

Have I been laboring under a serious misunderstanding all along, or is there a nuance in this table I am missing? Does this mean that all public UG applicants are at an inherent disadvantage to applicants from selective private schools, and at many (most?) med schools, both public and private?

 

[KnightDoc]

1) You are reading it wrong. It says that private medical schools look at the selectivity of the undergraduate institution while public medical schools focus on residency of applicant.
2) in later AAMC surveys this difference is not nearly as prevalent though I suspect that was more for responding medical schools wanting to be more politically correct
3) private medical school also find research of moderate importance while public medical schools give it low importance
4) as for the selectivity, this has always existed. Better students who typically go to more prestigious / selective schools (and who do well), with more guidance, opportunities, etc will likely have better chances at higher ranked private med schools then similar applicants from state schools
5) this does NOT mean that a moderate applicant from a selective private UG will be more highly regarded than a solid candidate from a state school
6) there is no way to know how any specific private medical school chooses, evaluates, weighs or even means by a “selective” UG. Indeed there may be formal policies or informal traditions with no consistency across adcom members
7) hence other than the generic statement that solid applicants from prestigious / selective UG have some advantage over others
8) this has almost been the general opinion from adcoms/advisors on here.
9) this is also only one factor over the evaluation of the many pieces that are looked by adcoms. Applicants always need to look at their application as a whole

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I did misread it (and also misunderstood the general adcom opinion on SDN insofar as UG selectivity is an important factor for all private schools, not just the top ones -- according to the table N=127, not 10 or 20!).

Putting superior guidance and opportunities at selective private UGs aside (because good candidates can certainly make their own opportunities anywhere), it just kinda sucks that all private med schools place a premium on name brand UGs. I do get that it's only one data point in an application, but to the extent that it's a "highest importance" data point for private schools, it does highlight the hypocrisy of lower ranked private medical schools pooh-poohing rankings when they themselves consider them of "highest importance" when evaluating their candidates for admission.

 

[FlowRate]

I'd just add that, if you're strongly hoping for a specific school, you should research whether they have any quirky expectations. Back when I was applying, U of CO wanted a very large number of hours of being "directly responsible for the care of others" or something like that.

 

[KnightDoc]

No, it makes perfect sense. If medical schools are trying to select the best candidates, looking closely at those who already went thru a very competitive UG selection process to get into a top school and then do well against all the other selected students, it already indicates something about their abilities.

This of course doesnt help the students who could afford, didnt go, or werent advise about top schools.

.... but isn't that what the MCAT is supposed to equalize for? What's the purpose behind subjecting us to that monster of a marathon exam when you already have the Harvard UG admissions committee separating the wheat from the chaff for you?

I don't mean to argue, and I already know the answer (it's just one more data point, it's not the end of the world, lots of people from crappy UGs get into great med schools and become great MDs, etc., etc.), it's just that it's kind of BS that selectivity of UG is not just a data point, it's of the "highest importance," when there is also a transcript, MCAT and body or work to look at for students who didn't go to highly selective private UGs, for whatever reason. It's also BS that private med schools in the bottom 50 of med school rankings are in a position to place "high importance" on selectivity of UG, while at the same time arguing that med school rankings are meaningless, look at our match lists, etc., as they try to lure the same students away from T20 med schools.

Finally, it sucks that I was told during HS advising that where one goes to UG doesn't matter for med school, as long as one does well in school, on the MCAT, ECs, etc. It turns out that was not really true, and causes me to now take with a grain of salt the advice that where you go to med school doesn't matter unless you want academia or maybe a select few highly competitive residencies. It seems as though name brand always matters, and advice to the contrary is mainly meant to soothe the feelings of those who are denied opportunities for whatever reasons (financial or otherwise).

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I did misread it (and also misunderstood the general adcom opinion on SDN insofar as UG selectivity is an important factor for all private schools, not just the top ones -- according to the table N=127, not 10 or 20!).

Putting superior guidance and opportunities at selective private UGs aside (because good candidates can certainly make their own opportunities anywhere), it just kinda sucks that all private med schools place a premium on name brand UGs. I do get that it's only one data point in an application, but to the extent that it's a "highest importance" data point for private schools, it does highlight the hypocrisy of lower ranked private medical schools pooh-poohing rankings when they themselves consider them of "highest importance" when evaluating their candidates for admission.

Selectivity for top UG schools seems to be a thing more with the Ivy League med schools. To quote one SDNers, "there's more inbreeding at Brown than at an Alabama trailer park".

What's overlooked is that a 4.0 GPA is a 4.0 GPA, whether at Harvard or Kutztown State. Yes, the MCAT is the great equalizer, but if your college is a know feeder for med schools, they know that they put out a good product (the same holds true for residency programs).

SDNers are advised to not bemoan that they went to XU and not Yale or Stanford. Rather, they should work to build the best possible app. That will get them into medical school. Once you get a doctor, it won't matter if you went to ACOM or Yale, to JA Burns or UNE, or to U WA or U Miami.

 

[KnightDoc]

Selectivity for top UG schools seems to be a thing more with the Ivy League med schools. To quote one SDNers, "there's more inbreeding at Brown than at an Alabama trailer park".

What's overlooked is that a 4.0 GPA is a 4.0 GPA, whether at Harvard or Kutztown State. Yes, the MCAT is the great equalizer, but if your college is a know feeder for med schools, they know that they put out a good product (the same holds true for residency programs).

SDNers are advises to not bemoan that they went to XU and not Yale or Stanford. Rather, they should work to build the best possible app. That will get them into medical school. Once you get a doctor, it won't matter if you went to ACOM or Yale, to JA Burns or UNE, or to U WA or U Miami.

I know, I know! 🙂 It's just that while common wisdom on SDN is that it only matters at Ivy med schools, that AAMC survey shows it's of "highest importance" at all private med schools (N=127). I'm not sure that it would have changed my decision on where to attend UG, but it is a "highest importance" academic metric that WAS entirely within my control, and I wish I had this information before I made a decision.

I do realize that there is nothing to be gained by moaning about it after the fact, but, still, it kind of sucks for people like me that this is a factor of "highest importance" that people like me will never have, no matter how high our GPA or MCAT is. Basically, you are confirming that while the MCAT is a great equalizer, that is qualified with a "not really," because Kutztown will never be Harvard, even with a 528!

Also, I keep hearing that in the future it won't matter whether I went to ACOM or Yale, but, to be honest, I also heard that for med school it won't matter whether I go to Harvard or Kutztown, and now I see an AAMC survey that says otherwise.

 

[Goro]

I know, I know! 🙂 It's just that while common wisdom on SDN is that it only matters at Ivy med schools, that AAMC survey shows it's of "highest importance" at all private med schools (N=127). I'm not sure that it would have changed my decision on where to attend UG, but it is a "highest importance" academic metric that WAS entirely within my control, and I wish I had this information before I made a decision.

I do realize that there is nothing to be gained by moaning about it after the fact, but, still, it kind of sucks for people like me that this is a factor of "highest importance" that people like me will never have, no matter how high our GPA or MCAT is. Basically, you are confirming that while the MCAT is a great equalizer, that is qualified with a "not really," because Kutztown will never be Harvard, even with a 528!

Also, I keep hearing that in the future it won't matter whether I went to ACOM or Yale, but, to be honest, I also heard that for med school it won't matter whether I go to Harvard or Kutztown, and now I see an AAMC survey that says otherwise.

You are focussing on a single metric, and you can't think that way. So knock it off.