is this worth it?

[apraxia]

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I know everyone has thought about it, but is this really worth it?

Yes, there are a good number of physicians who would be like fish out of water if you put them in another work setting.

But even they, if they worked even half as hard at something as they did at medicine, could attain a very comfortable living. Maybe not more yearly money than an average doctor, but probably a similar hourly wage, similar lifetime money, much less hours, more job satisfaction, more happiness, less debt, less stress.

Again, I'm just talking about the average joe docs. We don't even need to talk about the elite docs (who are wasting their talents if they're buying up yachts in private practice instead of discovering a cure for cancer) who could've been elite in any profession.

Then again there are there are still a few tales of the old-style doc who work 3 days a week 8 months a year (the allergy or derm-style practice). This is unlikely for an average joe doc to obtain in anything other than medicine.

There's no surer or safer way for an average joe doc to earn $200k a year than medicine, and certainly no way to earn $400k other than ortho, anesthesia, etc., but if you count the debt, hours, lost wages, less happiness.. I think this is especially true for those of us in residency spending our waking and sleeping hours and weekends in hospitals while most of our friends are enjoying their lives, doing things normal people do.

So really, is this worth it?

Let's get some attending level input in here too.

 

[medicinesux]

No it's not worth it. At least not anymore it isn't. We as physicians have given away so much of our profession on so many levels it is bewildering. And since we do nothing but sit back and take it like the weak kid on the playground getting pummelled over and over again by the school bully, is this any surprise? I am amazed at how much medicine in this country has degenerated in just the relatively short time since I started medical school. I am downright scared to see what it will be like in another ten.

 

[Lonestar]

As a practicing anesthesiologist, I must say that medicine is not what it used to be. I just graduated from residency so I am little gidddy with my paycheck. I am sure that this will wear off as I continue with Q4 call night after night after night....

So right now, with 160K in debt and finishing a brutal residency I must say i am a bit disillusioned right now.

Now, i am worried about board certification (written and orals). I am concerned that my partners will not make me partner if i don't get "certified" in 2 yrs. It doesn't matter if my clinical skills are good, it just matters that I am "certified".

I have decided to live in an apartment for 2 years since my future is unknown after 2 yrs.

Money is good right now and vacation is good. I can't complain about these two. However, when i see 15K down to 8.4K after taxes i understand why people really hate taxes.

My plan is to pay off my debt as soon as possible. I'll be happier once i am debt free.

So, currently i wished i had tried something else.

 

[yaah]

It's worth it if you enjoy what you do. I am now in year 10 of graduate education (med school + residency + fellowship) and I actually enjoy it more every day. I am very happy with how things have worked out, and am set up to start a great job next year. But if I didn't like what I was doing, or I was in it just for the money, I would likely be miserable. In med school there were many rotations which I really did not like, and even short days were long and unpleasant. For me, I guess it comes down to the fact that my career will give me autonomy and intellectual stimulation, and will have comparatively less of the stuff I find objectionable about other careers (spending all day on the phone, traveling to sales meetings, whatever).

I'm sure I could have selected a different career and by now by more financially secure, but you never know. I could have got a job with a company that failed and I could be screwed now. Or I could have been miserable.

The problem is that it is hard to figure out when you are in college and even med school just what kind of career is going to make you happy, let alone what specialty you are going to pick if you do medicine. Sometimes people who take a couple of years off and work before med school have an easier time of this, but sometimes they don't because it confuses them even more.

You also make it sound as though medicine is an easier way, a guaranteed way, towards a better income. But this discounts all of the people who flame out on the way. It is not really an easy task to get through med school and residency while keeping your sense of self and happiness. Most people find a balance, but many either bail out or turn into miserable individuals. Succeeding in the business world or any other field is not really any different fundamentally, just in the details. Medicine is just more cerebral, and to many people it is a lot more controlled because since so much is based on studying and examination, it feels "safer" provided you can handle these things.

 

[michaelrack]

There's no surer or safer way for an average joe doc to earn $200k a year than medicine, and certainly no way to earn $400k other than ortho, anesthesia, etc., .

The average joe primary care doc makes $150k per year.

Many non-surgical specialists make about $250K per year.

 

[medicinesux]

The average joe primary care doc makes $150k per year.

Many non-surgical specialists make about $250K per year.

As they will be in 2018 and 2028. See the thread I just started in the Family Practice Forum where the avg salary over a ten year period for family docs actually went down, yep you heard me, DOWN 3 percent.😱 My jaw is still on the floor over that one. There are so many other more enjoyable, heck even tolerable jobs that currently pay in the 75-125K range which will quickly equal or exceed those of physicians in the coming years. Think about that one for a moment.

There is way too much downward pressure on physician salaries for there to be any increases in the future. Between nurses who want to play doctor, a populace who demands more service for less pay (think McMedicine), a govt who caters to such demands, and a weak physician lobby, where is there any support to increase physician salaries from current levels? It is like we are flailing around mercilessly in the water with blood already in the water from the first bite. The damage has been done and it only becomes easier and easier to get chewed up further.

 

[PunkRockDoc]

Along the line that yaah was speaking about - I think that it is worth it for some people. For many people, medicine can be a very rewarding and satisfying career.

For me personally, though - no, it isn't worth it. I'm in my second specialty (FM internship, now in 2nd year of path) and still miserable everyday. I have yet to find something that stimulates me. Surprisingly, I was more satisfied when I worked for the man in big pharma.

 

[Lonestar]

I am glad some people are actually honest on these boards. There are a lot more miserable people in medicine than it actually appears. More docs are worried about their professions than at any time in the history of medicine. Why you say? Low respect, stagnant salaries, competition from people who wanna play doctor, and worst of all "the feeling that you are just another employee" of the hospital.

Its like being in a maze with no exit. The rat race never ends.

Do I enjoy what I do? yes. Do I Love what i do? No. Would I recommend medicine to my children? NO!!!

Life's a b#$ch. I have learned to live with it.

 

[Lonestar]

Well, i guess its time for golf. I am so depressed that i need to go golfing 4 times a week. Life is like a box of chocolates. 😀

 

[apraxia]

As a practicing anesthesiologist, I must say that medicine is not what it used to be. I just graduated from residency so I am little gidddy with my paycheck. I am sure that this will wear off as I continue with Q4 call night after night after night....

How much more Q4 call?

So right now, with 160K in debt and finishing a brutal residency I must say i am a bit disillusioned right now.

I've heard (rarely) some describe their residency as "not that bad". Usually it seems like they just forgot what it was like, but do you ever think this is the case (outside of derm)? Or are these people just very resistant to physical/mental barrage? I don't care how much you like it, at some points it's straight tougher (not harder or more challenging) than any other profession.

Now, i am worried about board certification (written and orals). I am concerned that my partners will not make me partner if i don't get "certified" in 2 yrs. It doesn't matter if my clinical skills are good, it just matters that I am "certified".

I have decided to live in an apartment for 2 years since my future is unknown after 2 yrs.

Is this a real concern? Do a lot of people not pass their boards despite being clinically good?

Money is good right now and vacation is good. I can't complain about these two. However, when i see 15K down to 8.4K after taxes i understand why people really hate taxes.

What's a starting salary/vacation for anesthesia these days?

My plan is to pay off my debt as soon as possible. I'll be happier once i am debt free.

So, currently i wished i had tried something else.

Say your debt is paid off. Do you feel it's "too late" to try something else now, or not? Do you like going into work everyday now?

The problem is that it is hard to figure out when you are in college and even med school just what kind of career is going to make you happy, let alone what specialty you are going to pick if you do medicine. Sometimes people who take a couple of years off and work before med school have an easier time of this, but sometimes they don't because it confuses them even more.

Couldn't agree more.

You also make it sound as though medicine is an easier way, a guaranteed way, towards a better income. But this discounts all of the people who flame out on the way. It is not really an easy task to get through med school and residency while keeping your sense of self and happiness. Most people find a balance, but many either bail out or turn into miserable individuals. Succeeding in the business world or any other field is not really any different fundamentally, just in the details. Medicine is just more cerebral, and to many people it is a lot more controlled because since so much is based on studying and examination, it feels "safer" provided you can handle these things.

You're right, there are a lot of people who drop out on the way, but actually I think an understated amount of them choose to drop out--at least the ones who got into med school, I'm not counting premeds. It could be an implicit choice, but essentially their choice. In part because they do realize that maybe it isn't worth it.

For me personally, though - no, it isn't worth it. I'm in my second specialty (FM internship, now in 2nd year of path) and still miserable everyday. I have yet to find something that stimulates me. Surprisingly, I was more satisfied when I worked for the man in big pharma.

Yes, exactly my point. A lot of people would be maybe not making MORE money than a doc in other fields like working for the man in big pharma, but probably be more satisfied and making similar money once you factor debt, school, residency, total hours. Also in medicine, you're still working for 'the man'.

What is your plan then? Switch again? Continue to be miserable for how long?

Well, i guess its time for golf. I am so depressed that i need to go golfing 4 times a week. Life is like a box of chocolates. 😀

Now this is funny. What other profession can you be so depressed that you have to go golfing 4x a week, but actually have the time to go golfing 4x a week, but then if you have the time to why are you depressed?

 

[dragonfly99]

Yes, but only if you love it.
ONLY if you love it.
Or if you don't love it, but you do derm or cosmetic surgery LOL

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Yes, but only if you love it.
ONLY if you love it.
Or if you don't love it, but you do derm or cosmetic surgery LOL

Which is why my parents have played devil's advocate to my decision to go into the medical field from the getgo. God bless them.

As others have said you can make plenty of money doing something else that's a lot less strenuous and a lot less demanding. And, with everyone getting set to punish those of us who will be making more than 250k even more for our diligence and, you know, 11-16 years of our adult lives putting up with crap and amassing huge amounts of debt while sacrificing time that could be spent on other things, the income difference becomes even more irrelevant.

I could have made nearly as much doing something I genuinely enjoy and continue to be fascinated by so much I still do research in the subject and present/publish papers even though it does me little to no professional good. I would have been PAID to spend time playing with monkeys in brazil for crying out loud!

But the truth is that on my death bed, I would have regretted not going into medicine. And that's why the choice was easy.

If you go into medicine for the money, the prestige, or to satisfy your parents, you will be disappointed. If, on the other hand, you can honestly say that NOT going into medicine is something you could not have lived with, THEN choose medicine.

 

[RTrain]

I am glad some people are actually honest on these boards. There are a lot more miserable people in medicine than it actually appears. More docs are worried about their professions than at any time in the history of medicine. Why you say? Low respect, stagnant salaries, competition from people who wanna play doctor, and worst of all "the feeling that you are just another employee" of the hospital.

Its like being in a maze with no exit. The rat race never ends.

Do I enjoy what I do? yes. Do I Love what i do? No. Would I recommend medicine to my children? NO!!!

Life's a b#$ch. I have learned to live with it.

I doubt that only the people who say they hate their lives and it wasn't worth it are the only ones being honest. Sure, there are people who are miserable in medicine. And business, and law, and flower arranging.

I'm happy. I'm happy even as a resident. I'm happy even though I have debt and wish I had more time to garden. For me, it is worth it. 👍

 

[yaah]

Life is tough everywhere. Sure, there are the lucky few with super athletic talent or trust funds or whatever. But every profession is becoming more time consuming and difficult and stressful with every passing year. One of the differences in medicine is the relative job security - very few people get fired or downsized compared to other areas. I know people in the auto industry for whom every day at work feels like it could be their last. Probably similar in the financial industry. So if you like it and enjoy the lifestyle, medicine is still a good career. But it is hard work.