Is working for Kaiser Permanente a nightmare?

[Ludwig2000]

In short, should I give my name and CV to their specific recruiter(s)?

I’d be interested if it could give me a situation where I work 3 days per week and make 240K in one of a few specific locations. I don’t know if that’s possible or not. Is it? If yes, does it require selling yr soul?

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[hamstergang]

Here's a recent thread on the topic: What is working at Kaiser like for a psychiatrist?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I have only ever heard bad things about working at Kaiser. Also, I dropped a series of interviews I had started at Kaiser once when they told me the next step in the hiring process was elaborate personality testing to see if I “fit into their culture”. If your institution is going to do elaborate personality testing for hiring, I can already tell you that I won’t fit into your culture.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

I have only ever heard bad things about working at Kaiser. Also, I dropped a series of interviews I had started at Kaiser once when they told me the next step in the hiring process was elaborate personality testing to see if I “fit into their culture”. If your institution is going to do elaborate personality testing for hiring, I can already tell you that I won’t fit into your culture.

my job actually did the same personality test im sure, that kaiser does. It wasnt a big deal. If anything I think it can be good as it weeds out potentially unstable coworkers. Maybe its not 100% but its a start.

 

[littlefred]

I wonder how the Kaiser strike affected the physicians, were they striking as well?

 

[FlowRate]

My region doesn't do personality testing as part of the interview process. My job is great, see recent threads for more details. The strikes did not affect the psychiatry department very much. More disruptive for other specialties. Physicians aren't part of the Kaiser health plan unions, they're part of separate Permanente medical groups.

As for 240k for 3d/wk, that's unlikely. I don't know CA region salaries (which are usually a good bit higher than the other regions) but 0.6 FTE here would be roughly 180k and a commensurate increase in your cost share of benefits provided. 240k for 0.6FTE would require a base 1.0 FTE salary of 400k. If you did 3x10's or 3x12's you could probably hit 240k but the potential to do that is clinic/region dependent (12's are unlikely.)

 

[nexus73]

When I interviewed at Kaiser they were more interested in 1.0FTE. They did offer a 0.8 FTE because it sounded like they were in dire need at the location I applied to.

I think at 0.8 the cost for health insurance increased but was still not very much money for what are the best benefits I've seen in any employed job. And I could be misremembering, it may have been no increase at 0.8 FTE, but you paid a bit more at 0.75 or less. No copays for primary care, $10 copay for specialists I think. Free dental cleanings covered, and free eye exam/glasses every year I believe. I personally can't handle outpatient day after day otherwise it seems like more than fair compensation, plus excellent health insurance and generous retirement.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

my job actually did the same personality test im sure, that kaiser does. It wasnt a big deal. If anything I think it can be good as it weeds out potentially unstable coworkers. Maybe its not 100% but its a start.

Sounds more like a way to weed-in people willing to drink the Kool-Aid IMO

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

Sounds more like a way to weed-in people willing to drink the Kool-Aid IMO

I mean my job is actually a good job for the most part. My pay is very competitive. My bosses never hound me on anything, i cant remember the last time they have had any criticism towards me. The area is super nice. Hours are 8:30-4:30 with last half hour being admin time, and 30 min lunch. Biggest drawback is being hospital employed i tend to see a lot of personality disorder referrals and sick people or intakes that i would have screened out moreso in regular private practice so that can be draining, but im sure the trade off of going strictly private practice and less acuity is more volume.

The providers I work with i havent had any issues with so maybe the personality test is working since i get along with everyone. A couple other providers have had occasional spats but ive been cool with everyone.

realistically if i can make good money and not be in a toxic work enviroment then that already puts it ahead of >50% of advertised psych jobs

 

[FlowRate]

When I interviewed at Kaiser they were more interested in 1.0FTE. They did offer a 0.8 FTE because it sounded like they were in dire need at the location I applied to.

And just a note that my region is open to any FTE 0.5-1.0. Below that are often locals doing additional work outside of Kaiser since <0.5 is not benefits eligible.

 

[rexlax]

I wonder how the Kaiser strike affected the physicians, were they striking as w

I wonder how the Kaiser strike affected the physicians, were they striking as well?

The physicians aren't part of any union, but part of TPMG - the medical group (aka the Permanente part of Kaiser Permanente). I think the strike affected different physicians. In psychiatry, it didn't seem like there were major disruptions, but in hospital settings, there were probably some challenges.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

my job actually did the same personality test im sure, that kaiser does. It wasnt a big deal. If anything I think it can be good as it weeds out potentially unstable coworkers. Maybe its not 100% but its a start.

That assumes two things:

1) That these types of tests measure anything actionable and/or meaningful in the context of hiring doctors

2) That the people doing the hiring are using the results to pick the “right” kind of personality

I doubt either is true. With regards to #2, my guess is that the results are used to draft the type of pliable, easygoing kool-aid drinkers that will do whatever admin wants them to do. Which, IMHO, does not make you a good doctor or a good colleague. But I digress.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

That assumes two things:

1) That these types of tests measure anything actionable and/or meaningful in the context of hiring doctors

2) That the people doing the hiring are using the results to pick the “right” kind of personality

I doubt either is true. With regards to #2, my guess is that the results are used to draft the type of pliable, easygoing kool-aid drinkers that will do whatever admin wants them to do. Which, IMHO, does not make you a good doctor or a good colleague. But I digress.

I mean in roughly 1.5 years admin hasnt asked me to do anything besides a news article for PTSD and to see patients.

I dont think you understand how the personality test works. Its a phone interview with a trained psychologist who asks you questions about your life, the type of person you are, etc and they will even show you the results. Its not like a multiple choice test. The only thing I even did was give a background of my life and to the point of where I am now.

your assumptions are a bit insulting especially when its purely just qanon type theory. I do not think my hospital system is trying make super soldier psychiatrists to take over the world.

The real truth is, theres a lot of doctors with personality disorders and malignant traits as the field naturally attracts these people.

My last job was malignant and there was no personality test. This job id say, despite the small drawbacks i mentioned, is relatively cush by psych standards with pretty good pay. I get 30 min f/us and 1.5 hour intakes (if they arrive on time). I also can simply ask for longer time with a patient if i feel I need t and theyll do that without issue. My last job would never do that and actually laughed at me once when I asked.

For me, I want a job that is very serious about who they take, rather than a facility looking to cycle through people and just occupy desks. Whenever we hire new providers, we are also pretty selective, and if the current providers are unimpressed with the potential candidate that has a lot of weight. Weve turned down many people who we thought had odd personalities during the interview, seemed lazy, or seemed to have significant knowledge gaps which ironically, is more common than i thought.

 

[Merovinge]

I mean in roughly 1.5 years admin hasnt asked me to do anything besides a news article for PTSD and to see patients.

I dont think you understand how the personality test works. Its a phone interview with a trained psychologist who asks you questions about your life, the type of person you are, etc and they will even show you the results. Its not like a multiple choice test. The only thing I even did was give a background of my life and to the point of where I am now.

your assumptions are a bit insulting especially when its purely just qanon type theory. I do not think my hospital system is trying make super soldier psychiatrists to take over the world.

The real truth is, theres a lot of doctors with personality disorders and malignant traits as the field naturally attracts these people.

My last job was malignant and there was no personality test. This job id say, despite the small drawbacks i mentioned, is relatively cush by psych standards with pretty good pay. I get 30 min f/us and 1.5 hour intakes (if they arrive on time). I also can simply ask for longer time with a patient if i feel I need t and theyll do that without issue. My last job would never do that and actually laughed at me once when I asked.

For me, I want a job that is very serious about who they take, rather than a facility looking to cycle through people and just occupy desks. Whenever we hire new providers, we are also pretty selective, and if the current providers are unimpressed with the potential candidate that has a lot of weight. Weve turned down many people who we thought had odd personalities during the interview, seemed lazy, or seemed to have significant knowledge gaps which ironically, is more common than i thought.

Oddly you have convinced me that this is somewhat reasonable when done in this manner. However, I would say their assumptions are super reasonable, my experience with most health care systems is they are actively hunting out MDs who are flexible to be pushed to their will, who won't question their demands even if it goes against the best interest of the patients or if it gets free work out of you. In many cases this is exactly the job description of the MBA/executive.

 

[nexus73]

If it's a system wide practice, it's probably more useful for stratifying candidates for positions with numerous applicants, like executive level jobs where there may be 10 people applying for one opening.

 

[sloh]

Oddly you have convinced me that this is somewhat reasonable when done in this manner. However, I would say their assumptions are super reasonable, my experience with most health care systems is they are actively hunting out MDs who are flexible to be pushed to their will, who won't question their demands even if it goes against the best interest of the patients or if it gets free work out of you. In many cases this is exactly the job description of the MBA/executive.

I used to work for Kaiser and can confirm this is true. Whether the schedule and income are worth it is up to you. I’m now a 1099 and gross over 3x what Kaiser was paying me working 1/2-2/3 the hrs, with completely autonomy. 1099 —> FIRE club baby.

 

[Merovinge]

I used to work for Kaiser and can confirm this is true. Whether the schedule and income are worth it is up to you. I’m now a 1099 and gross over 3x what Kaiser was paying me working 1/2-2/3 the hrs, with completely autonomy. 1099 —> FIRE club baby.

Being a Bad@$$ is awesome, I highly recommend it, and would have done it had I not fallen randomly into a wonderful PHP/IOP job I enjoy (and still might if something changes with my employer).

I do just think it's important to recognize that the majority of psychiatrists are not going to hang up their own shingle these days and that a lot of people want a non-toxic employed job with good bennies. Helping residents start with Kaiser over say Lifestance is a crucial part of these boards.

 

[nexus73]

I used to work for Kaiser and can confirm this is true. Whether the schedule and income are worth it is up to you. I’m now a 1099 and gross over 3x what Kaiser was paying me working 1/2-2/3 the hrs, with completely autonomy. 1099 —> FIRE club baby.

do you have another thread with details of what you're doing? If not could you give use a quick overview?

 

[Stagg737]

do you have another thread with details of what you're doing? If not could you give use a quick overview?

Sloh isn't a psychiatrist.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

Sloh isn't a psychiatrist.

whattt. I never even realized this

 

[FlowRate]

whattt. I never even realized this

If you're wondering, I clicked through his posts. He's PM&R and covers a bunch of SNFs for some company that contracts PM&R stuff plus billing optimization and other stuff. Sounds like he grinds through lots of patients encounters very quickly in order to hit those lofty income targets.

 

[sloh]

If you're wondering, I clicked through his posts. He's PM&R and covers a bunch of SNFs for some company that contracts PM&R stuff plus billing optimization and other stuff. Sounds like he grinds through lots of patients encounters very quickly in order to hit those lofty income targets.

And when kaiser holds patient satisfaction (customer service) on a pedestal, physicians in specialties that deal with largely non acutely life and limb threatening patients (pm&r, psych, etc.) start practicing in very interesting ways.

Who benefits? Certainly not the physicians on the front lines. A nice pat on the back and a stable low ceiling w2 income with some golden handcuff bennies for ya.

 

[FlowRate]

And when kaiser holds patient satisfaction (customer service) on a pedestal, physicians in specialties that deal with largely non acutely life and limb threatening patients (pm&r, psych, etc.) start practicing in very interesting ways.

Who benefits? Certainly not the physicians on the front lines. A nice pat on the back and a stable low ceiling w2 income with some golden handcuff bennies for ya.

Again, sounds like your experience in CA was a lot more "big brother" than in my region. Yes we monitor patient satisfaction with a number of different things (access, physician interaction, facilities, etc. etc.) but it's not tied to remuneration at all and the only way it's linked to retention is if someone is egregiously outside of a broad definition of normal (in which case those of us in admin have probably received lots of legitimate patient complaints separate from sat ratings.)

Also something that might be surprising is that some of our docs who have really high patient sat are actually not pushovers doing whatever patients want. They just have extremely good bedside manner.

 

[sloh]

Again, sounds like your experience in CA was a lot more "big brother" than in my region. Yes we monitor patient satisfaction with a number of different things (access, physician interaction, facilities, etc. etc.) but it's not tied to remuneration at all and the only way it's linked to retention is if someone is egregiously outside of a broad definition of normal (in which case those of us in admin have probably received lots of legitimate patient complaints separate from sat ratings.)

Also something that might be surprising is that some of our docs who have really high patient sat are actually not pushovers doing whatever patients want. They just have extremely good bedside manner.

Correct it’s not tied to remuneration but it is tied to whether your contract gets renewed and you make partnership. And in theory it’s not an issue if they are benchmarking you to your specialty within kaiser unless this type of customers service mentality is the expected norm. I have plenty of peers who work or have worked for Kaiser as FM, PM&R, Neurology and customer service being held up on a pedestal is like the number 1 or 2 complaint right next to inbox message expectations. Incentives are king. Kaiser knows exactly what it’s doing. Step out of line? Nash equilibrium. Only if you want to lose your job at Kaiser.

 

[FlowRate]

Correct it’s not tied to remuneration but it is tied to whether your contract gets renewed and you make partnership. And in theory it’s not an issue if they are benchmarking you to your specialty within kaiser unless this type of customers service mentality is the expected norm. I have plenty of peers who work or have worked for Kaiser as FM, PM&R, Neurology and customer service being held up on a pedestal is like the number 1 or 2 complaint right next to inbox message expectations. Incentives are king. Kaiser knows exactly what it’s doing. Step out of line? Nash equilibrium. Only if you want to lose your job at Kaiser.

Again, region specific. We really only care about very significant specialty-benchmarked outliers. Also very hard to lose your job in general since there's so much demand for docs and especially once you're a shareholder (after 3 years.)

 

[sloh]

Again, region specific. We really only care about very significant specialty-benchmarked outliers. Also very hard to lose your job in general since there's so much demand for docs and especially once you're a shareholder (after 3 years.)

Exactly drink the kool-aid for 3 years. By that time, practice habits are ingrained. Path of least resistance.

 

[comp1]

No personal experience with Kaiser, but sure have heard a lot of...aggressive stuff about NorCal, even off this board. That said, I can't imagine they would fire a physician over patient satisfaction. Indeed, the need is too great for providers everywhere. I can imagine them dramatically using financial motivation to change how you practice however.

 

[sloh]

No personal experience with Kaiser, but sure have heard a lot of...aggressive stuff about NorCal. That said, I can't imagine they would fire a physician over patient satisfaction. Indeed, the need is too great for providers everywhere. I can imagine them dramatically using financial motivation to change how you practice however.

They can’t really use financial motivation to change how you practice bc patient satisfaction isn’t really tied to remuneration. It’s a w2 job. They also aren’t really firing you. They just won’t vote you into partnership or renew your contract for the next year. Put you on a performance improvement plan which is honestly your sign to resign or they will make your life difficult. The need is great but in desirable HCOL cities there’s plenty of physicians for them to churn through.

 

[comp1]

There's really no bonuses tied to patient satisfaction scores? I had heard differently. I would have thought they would have that sort of stuff down. They are indeed very fortunate if they have enough mental health providers to churn through anywhere.

 

[Merovinge]

There's really no bonuses tied to patient satisfaction scores? I had heard differently. I would have thought they would have that sort of stuff down. They are indeed very fortunate if they have enough mental health providers to churn through anywhere.

That would tell you more about their offerings compared to market than anything. No one can keep a large stable of even average MD psychiatrists without doing something right or offering higher comp.

 

[FlowRate]

Exactly drink the kool-aid for 3 years. By that time, practice habits are ingrained. Path of least resistance.

Practice habits like providing high quality, appropriate, evidence-based care? The nice thing about working for KP is that we're straight salary and leadership cares way more about docs practicing high-quality, cost-effective medicine than just about anything else. No one is going to get in trouble for not giving in to unreasonable patients.

 

[FlowRate]

Clearly. Least sh**** of the s*** W2 jobs is still s***.

Right, maybe it's that way in CA as a pediatrician. CA regions are a totally different beast. It's kinda like the VA, hard to generalize across the entire system since the quality of the job is highly dependent on region/clinic/specialty. But your continued blanket statements about "all Kaiser" are inaccurate. They're largely independent entities, especially the various PMG's. I feel like I've said this to you like 20 times across these various threads. I get that you have a bone to pick with your CA Kaiser experience as a physiatrist. No clue what you have to gain steering people away from legitimately good psychiatry jobs outside of CA. (Psych in CA may even be good but we haven't heard from anyone with first hand experience.)

 

[sloh]

Right, maybe it's that way in CA as a pediatrician. CA regions are a totally different beast. It's kinda like the VA, hard to generalize across the entire system since the quality of the job is highly dependent on region/clinic/specialty. But your continued blanket statements about "all Kaiser" are inaccurate.

Or perhaps you're the one in a unicorn gig/Kaiser location and this applies in general to more Kaiser locations than not? I have friends who are primary care in Hawaii as well. Same thing.

 

[FlowRate]

Or perhaps you're the one in a unicorn gig/Kaiser location and this applies in general to more Kaiser locations than not? I have friends who are primary care in Hawaii as well. Same thing.

Sorry, had a bunch of late edits (see above), bad habit of mine.

Anyway, you keep talking about non-psychiatry jobs. Employed primary care jobs suck everywhere.

 

[sloh]

Sorry, had a bunch of late edits (see above), bad habit of mine.

Anyway, you keep talking about non-psychiatry jobs. Employed primary care jobs suck everywhere.

Because the disgruntlement among physicians in the Kaiser setting generally has commonalities: outpatient, inbox messages.

It doesn't even take much to wonder why that is. The W2 arrangement incentivizes the employer to squeeze all they can out of their employees. And I'll be fair here as well, when a physician is salaried they are also incentivized to do the bare minimum.

Does Kaiser care about patient satisfaction scores? Overwhelmingly Yes.

Do they compensate their physicians for tending to those inbox messages? Not really.

And I'll agree with you FM probably has it the worst out of all the specialties at Kaiser.

 

[FlowRate]

Because the disgruntlement among physicians in the Kaiser setting generally has commonalities: outpatient, inbox messages.

It doesn't even take much to wonder why that is. The W2 arrangement incentivizes the employer to squeeze all they can out of their employees. And I'll be fair here as well, when a physician is salaried they are also incentivized to do the bare minimum.

Does Kaiser care about patient satisfaction scores? Overwhelmingly Yes.

Do they compensate their physicians for tending to those inbox messages? Not really.

And I'll agree with you FM probably has it the worst out of all the specialties at Kaiser.

We get 2 hours per day of admin time in significant part because we do message management (inbox.) Do we care about pat sat? Yes but it's not a threatening thing or all that serious here.

It's a physician's group. Policies are set by other physicians. The top of the group don't get excess profits (re: "squeeze all they can.") The whole arrangement is for the common benefit of all of the physicians in the group.

I do think that the physician group as a whole doesn't get compensated quite as much as it should and that a lot of the "excess" insurance income probably goes to the many unionized employees with high benefitting rates and top of market pay.

 

[SmallBird]

I have four close friends who worked at Kaiser in the last 3 years, two still work there. They worked in California and other west coast markets. They all reported overall good experiences, although fairly busy clinics and a high expectation in terms of responding to messages from patients. They are and were well compensated. None of them complained about care being overall directed other than to to stick to evidence based practice and make sure that you are checking labs according to recommendations. As it relates to psychopharmacology, there are worse things then standardization and I am not sure why it is so maligned, unless people are wedded to their ability to overprescribe in esoteric ways. I have considered working there but I prefer systems where I can be done quicker if I work faster and that isn't Kaiser.

 

[the5thelement]

I know at least one person working there (Physical med/rehab) who (every time I see him) looks bogged down and drained like the system is sucking the life force out of him. He doesnt really complain and seems like he is okay with the whole thing even singing their praises in a stockholmy syndromy kinda way. I couldnt do it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[seroquantom]

Of course, your mileage may vary, however, I've heard pretty decent things. At the end of the day, you should remember it's a job and it pays quite well.

 

[MedMan80]

The vibe i got speaking to Kaiser for Norcal was that they do value quality over quantitiy. However there were no RVU incentives, so i felt that I'd be stuck to a 8-5 job with no ability to make more money. Icing on the cake was only 3 weeks PTO...I passed..

 

[Stagg737]

We get 2 hours per day of admin time in significant part because we do message management (inbox.) Do we care about pat sat? Yes but it's not a threatening thing or all that serious here.

It's a physician's group. Policies are set by other physicians. The top of the group don't get excess profits (re: "squeeze all they can.") The whole arrangement is for the common benefit of all of the physicians in the group.

I do think that the physician group as a whole doesn't get compensated quite as much as it should and that a lot of the "excess" insurance income probably goes to the many unionized employees with high benefitting rates and top of market pay.

To each their own, but the bolded is a massive red flag for me personally. The idea that 2 hours of daily admin time to mostly do message management is absolutely insane to me. Even an hour of daily admin time for messages is a position I wouldn't want to touch.

 

[FlowRate]

To each their own, but the bolded is a massive red flag for me personally. The idea that 2 hours of daily admin time to mostly do message management is absolutely insane to me. Even an hour of daily admin time for messages is a position I wouldn't want to touch.

Why? Would you rather only have an hour to do all your admin tasks (paperwork, calls, finishing notes for visits that go long, etc.) and messages? Because I'm efficient and well boundaried with my patients, it's not like I usually need even close to all of it, it's just part of the justification for having so much A time. Specialties that do most of their own message management get a pay bump and extra A time. Specialties where nurses do most of it get less A time and slightly lower (specialty benchmarked) pay.

 

[Stagg737]

Why? Would you rather only have an hour to do all your admin tasks (paperwork, calls, finishing notes for visits that go long, etc.) and messages? Since I'm efficient and well boundaried with my patients, it's not like I usually need even close to all of it, it's just part of the justification for having so much A time.

I'd rather just have strong support staff and not need any admin time to address patient messages along with a small enough panel to get patients in sooner for more appointments and better reimbursement if they need it. Getting an equal or better salary for less overall hours of work is nice, but we all know that less clinical hours is almost always going to translate to lower pay or greater unpaid responsibilities elsewhere. If you don't have that, then that's nice, but that's certainly not the case for most, including the 2 *psychiatrists within Kaiser I know (one of whom is in Colorado).

 

[FlowRate]

I'd rather just have strong support staff and not need any admin time to address patient messages along with a small enough panel to get patients in sooner for more appointments and better reimbursement if they need it. Getting an equal or better salary for less overall hours of work is nice, but we all know that less clinical hours is almost always going to translate to lower pay or greater unpaid responsibilities elsewhere. If you don't have that, then that's nice, but that's certainly not the case for most, including the 2 *psychiatrists within Kaiser I know (one of whom is in Colorado).

So you want 1. limited additional duties 2. above average pay 3. excellent support staff 4. below or average work hours 5. small panel of patients willing to see you often 6. who pay cash or have above-average reimbursing insurance 7. who you'd rather make come into the office to charge a full visit fee for something that could be handled in 30 seconds by patient portal?

Are you holding all potential jobs to the standard of an absolutely ideal, perfection-level, imaginary employed position? Are you actually in such a job? Or are you comparing apples and oranges (solo or established well-run small group PP vs employed)?

I can think of all kinds of things I'd "rather" have, but those expectations aren't realistic of an employed position with a large company.

 

[Stagg737]

Are you holding all potential jobs to the standard of an absolutely ideal, perfection-level, imaginary employed position? Or are you actually in such a job? Or are you comparing apples and oranges (solo or established well-run small group PP vs employed)?

I can think of all kinds of things I'd "rather" have, but those expectations aren't realistic of an employed position with a large company.

I work for a large academic center where our front desk staff handles most messages and simple refills. My outpatient clinic is small (~6-8 hours a week, panel of ~50-60 patients) but I typically spend less than 10 minutes per week on messages and I rarely need to call patients (maybe 1-2x per month) as our staff handles that.

That being said, I realize that many outpatient docs spend a fair amount of time on messages and outside of appointments, which is part of why I hate outpatient.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I can think of all kinds of things I'd "rather" have, but those expectations aren't realistic of an employed position with a large company like Kaiser Permanente.

Well that is kinda the point of this thread?

 

[FlowRate]

The vibe i got speaking to Kaiser for Norcal was that they do value quality over quantitiy. However there were no RVU incentives, so i felt that I'd be stuck to a 8-5 job with no ability to make more money. Icing on the cake was only 3 weeks PTO...I passed..

Also just noting the PTO varies by region and specialty. (6 weeks here to start)

I work for a large academic center where our front desk staff handles most messages and simple refills. My outpatient clinic is small (~6-8 hours a week, panel of ~50-60 patients) but I typically spend less than 10 minutes per week on messages and I rarely need to call patients (maybe 1-2x per month) as our staff handles that.

That being said, I realize that many outpatient docs spend a fair amount of time on messages and outside of appointments, which is part of why I hate outpatient.

Our nurses handle 100% of refill requests, I just have to sign controlled substances. I almost never call patients, I send an automated Epic message that tells the patient the nurse is going to call them and gives them the number to call back if they can't answer when the nurse calls. I do handle about 2-15 (depends on the day, 15 on Monday, sometimes as low as 2-3 on Thursdays) messages per day. They're usually very straightforward patient questions or messages I asked them to send me to check in on how the last med adjustment is going. Our MA takes care of any FMLA or ROI stuff.

Well that is kinda the point of this thread?

The point of this thread is "Is working for Kaiser Permanente a nightmare?" and the answer is no, it's not. Not even close. It's not a pie in the sky nirvana and no employed job is. Having an expectation of absolutely no work that you specifically don't like to do is unrealistic. Complaining about having to answer messages at all is basically just saying one hates outpatient work in general and is not substantiating that working for KP is "a nightmare." That's an unhelpful perspective to anyone who likes outpatient work and wants to find a reasonable outpatient job, which is what KP is.

 

[sloh]

Relevant thread!

 

[calvinhobbes]

Hi! could anyone comment on working at Kaiser location in South East (TSPMG) and Midwest regions?