Israeli Med School

[UnNethertrash]

I was wondering if anyone could give me an overview of med schools in Israel, specifically a doctor I work for said there is an Israeli school that is an American program (i.e. you get a normal MD as if you'd gone to school in the US) and does the first two years in Israel, then the second two years of clerkships somewhere in the US (possibly NY).

I thought it might be Sackler, but I didn't see anything on their website suggesting the second two years were in the US.

Thanks.

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[Jejton]

There are three that I am aware of:
Sackler in Tel Aviv
Joint Technion-Touro program ( this one is new )
International School of Medicine - Ben-Gurion University in Beer Sheva
I think that Hebrew U. has a program but I am not positive.
As far as I am aware most of the schools give you the option of doing rotations in Israel or the US after you take the boards. ISM offers other options as well I believe. They all have websites ( well I am not sure of the Touro program ) so you can email them for more info.
Good luck.

 

[maji]

Sackler is not that school, but its often referred to as the NY State/American program. Sackler kids do 4 months of rotations senior year in the states, in order to get known at the hospitals they plan on applying at for residency.

Im a first year in Sackler now, its pretty americanized.

 

[asif7083]

already mentioned

 

[UnNethertrash]

Thanks for the replies. Can someone help me find the homepage for Hebrew University American medical program? I've tried every search I can think of on google and the Hebrew University english page.

 

[ijcMD]

you might have a hard time finding it on google since it does not exist. There are only 3 American medical schools in Israel.. Sackler, Technion, and BGU...

there are med schools all over the world, but if people have never heard of them (i.e. residency directors), then you'll have a fun time come residency match. Those 3 happen to be well-known in certain pockets of the country (NYC, southern cal), with sackler the most known since it has been around the longest

 

[lainy105]

i applied to sackler a little while ago. i know they don't start interviews till february, but do you know if they only start reviewing applications after the new year? in other words, can i expect to hear from them in the near future?

 

[SonOfAdam]

I'm an Israeli with U.S. citizenship and trying to decide between the two..
Israeli schools are relatively cheap (for Israelis..) and you get into them right away, whereas going to the U.S. means first doing premed there and then hopefully getting into a good school. It also means a fortune in debt.
I think that the level here is pretty good, but how does it compare to various U.S. schools? It would only be worth it for me to go the U.S. if I could get into a good school..

 

[maji]

Yeh, you have to do premed as a US citizen, but the US medical program is 4 years, where as the Israeli program is 6 years. Also, you go in a lot more debt, but if you plan on having a practice in the US you make significantly more than you would in israel, so it balances out. Do not go to Sackler's American program if you want to practice in Israel, because they no longer recognize it.

 

[a_ditchdoc]

I'm an Israeli with U.S. citizenship and trying to decide between the two..
Israeli schools are relatively cheap (for Israelis..) and you get into them right away, whereas going to the U.S. means first doing premed there and then hopefully getting into a good school. It also means a fortune in debt.
I think that the level here is pretty good, but how does it compare to various U.S. schools? It would only be worth it for me to go the U.S. if I could get into a good school..

It depends on your goals. My personal opinion is that Israeli schools are as good or better than most american schools, with certain strengths and weaknesses. Having trained beside Columbia and Cornell graduates, I never felt as if I was in any way lesser educated, usually the opposite. On the other hand, they were better prepared to work independantly in the wards, gained responsibility earlier, and knew their roles in the american hospital, paperwork, consults, etc, much more than I. If you plan on a career in Israel, it is better to train in Israel. Their schools are extraordinarily competitive for Israelis however. The "American Style" programs are not AS competitive, but do not accept "Israelis". The costs are on par with american medical schools. If you plan on a competitive specialty in the US, train in an american school as it eliminates any bias. Many Israelis I knew also lamented the fact that they did not have the opportunity to pursue an undergraduate interest, as americans do, and went directly into a dedicated science curriculum directly out of high school (or military).

Best of luck. If I can answer any questions feel free to PM....

 

[wildDoc]

Do not go to Sackler's American program if you want to practice in Israel, because they no longer recognize it.

Maji, could you please elaborate on that?
Who no longer recognizes the American program, Israeli hospitals? I thought that every year some people end up staying to practice in Israel...
My current plan is to do residency in the US after completing the program, but I would like to go back to Israel in the future.

Thanks!

 

[dpr]

There was a recent article in Ha'aretz (Israeli newspaper) that stated that Sackler grads were no longer recognized in Israel. I have read the article and am familiar with the circumstances that led up to the article and it would help to elaborate so that potential students dont get inaccurate info...

The article reported that some "new" changes had made it impossible for graduates of Israeli-American medical school programs to practice in Israel after their graduation. This is inaccurate. First of all, nothing regarding the status or accreditation of Israeli medical schools has changed. American graduates of all three Israeli medical schools are free to practice in Israel just like Israei graduates. Similarly, there have been no changes in the accreditation status of these programs.

The article was reporting an Israeli lawsuit that involves an American medical student who had been granted an MD degree from an Israeli American medical school program, but was told that in order to practice medicine in Israel he must first complete either the Israeli stage (pronounced stahj) or a one-year U.S. internship and pass the USMLE. (The stage is identical a one-year U.S. internship.) This is the same exact requirement as all doctors who want to practice in Israel.

The lawsuit is based on the differences between licensure protocol in the U.S. vs. Israel. Normal Israeli (Hebrew) medical students must do the stage before they are actually granted the M.D. degree. In the U.S., medical school graduates get the M.D. degree after the fourth year of medical school, but are not fully licensed to practice medicine until the end of their one year internship (i.e., the first year of residency). To accomodate American students, the Israeli schools grant the M.D. degree after the fourth year of study (just like American schools). The American medical grads then go to the U.S. and do a normal U.S. residency.

The lawsuit arose when a graduate of an Israeli-American program took his M.D. and applied for a job as a full-fledged medical doctor at an Israeli hospital. The hospital rejected his application on the grounds that he had not completed the stage. He replied that since he had an "M.D." from an Israeli medical school that he should be allowed to practice medicine just like an Israeli M.D. graduate (even though they have to finish the stage before they get their degree). The Israeli National Medical Board finally stepped in and ruled that a degree granted by an Israeli-American medical program is not identical to a normal Israeli M.D. degree unless the M.D. graduate first completes a year of stage or one year of an American residency.

Needless to say, this is a case of a ******* trying to take a shortcut and making the programs sound bad in the press. Hopefully this will answer the questions that were raised.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I felt that it was necessary to answer the question that was posed regarding Israeli "accreditation".

 

[lainy105]

that clears up a lot, thank you!

on another note, anyone know when we can start to await interview invites from sackler? i know they don't start them until feb/march, but they should be letting us know soon, right?

 

[maji]

They told me someone was going to contact me, then they never did. So I called and they gave me the # of the doctor to call, and I set up my own interview.

I got invited to an interview on the day my application was complete.

 

[lainy105]

They told me someone was going to contact me, then they never did. So I called and they gave me the # of the doctor to call, and I set up my own interview.

I got invited to an interview on the day my application was complete.

when were you complete?

 

[ijcMD]

I believe that she is a current sudent at Sackler. Generally what happens, is that an alum in your area will call you once the ADCOM in the NYC office approves you for an interview. I believe the interview season is from Feb-June, although the later you get one, the harder it might be to be placed in the class.

I personally was contacted by a doctor in my hometown and we had the interview the very next day. Of course, that was back in the spring, since I didn't apply until second semester.

 

[maji]

I (male) completed my application around the middle of March, interviewed the end of March, got in first week of may, left for israel in august, been here since!

 

[wildDoc]

Thanks dpr.

Just recieved an interview for the Technion. No word from Sackler (completed on July...)

 

[lainy105]

i called sackler today, and the lady told me they would probably contact me at the end of jan/beginning of feb. guess i'll be waiting patiently till then..

 

[IDFTIGER]

Are there any extra licensing exams American students have to take besides the USMLE, after graduating from a program like Sackler's, in order to be licensed in the US?

 

[ijcMD]

nope.. whatever US MDs have to take are the only ones you have to take at Sackler

 

[dpr]

Thanks dpr.

Just recieved an interview for the Technion. No word from Sackler (completed on July...)

Congrats on the Technion interview! Technion is an amazing school. I dont know of many other schools where you have lectures by Nobel Prize winning scientists and "open door" access to their labs - Technion has 2 Nobel Laureates that lecture to first-year medical students! I am not trying to imply that the other Israeli med schools are inferior Technion... but I have a first-hand experience as a Technion student and I am very satisfied with my education here.

I was accepted to two U.S. medical schools in addition to several other foreign medical schools, but I felt that the Technion was best suited for my goals (I plan on doing research and also want to get into a highly competitive U.S. residency program). Since the Ivy League schools were out of my league, the Technion was the obvious next choice. The Technion Faculty of Medicine has formal joint medical education programs in various disciplines with the top U.S. medical schools (Johns Hopkins, Brown, Mayo) and Technion grads are regularly accepted to residency programs at these schools. Additionally the Technion has a student exchange agreement with Johns Hopkins School of Medicine that allows students to do rotations at Hopkins during their 3th & 4th years... Technion is the only foreign school with formal rotation exchange with Johns Hopkins... Im not sure about Brown & Mayo.

Regardless of the outcome, you are to be commended on being granted an interview at Technion. FYI, you will most likely interview with the Dean of the medical school and one other Technion rep. Best of luck!

 

[wildDoc]

Thanks dpr!

I was unofficially told that I was accepted to the program, though I'm still waiting for the official envelope. My interview was in Israel, in the school.

If you don't mind me asking, what year are you in? I too think that the Technion offers an amazing program, but I am concerned about matching to good residencies in the US. I have one acceptance to a good California school, but I really want to live in Israel for a couple of years (my family is there); this seems like the only reasonable time to do it.

Any thoughts about Technion Vs. Sackler?

Thanks

 

[ytg]

One advantage the Technion has over Sackler is that in the Technion you only have finals with hardly any tests during the semester this lets you party the whole semester and then only by finals time you you really got to study your head off

 

[ijcMD]

The previous poster is certainly uninformed. Sackler classes have about 1-2 quizzes during each of them (worth no more than 5% each) and are used to gauge your knowledge of the material as well as to help you focus in areas that you might be lacking. Then, at the end of semester, each class has a final worth roughly 90% of the grade.

In terms of the "party life" of a Sackler vs. Technion medical student, it depends on each person individually. I know people who have never gone out and study all the time and I know others who go out all the time (to top clubs/strip clubs). But, in terms of comparing the party scene between the cities of Tel Aviv and Haifa, it's like comparing Vegas to Boise, ID... there isn't really a comparison.

The fact that Technion first-year medical students receive some education from Nobel Prize Laureates is true, and they should be commended for that. But every school has its "celebrities". The first class any Sackler student takes is by a Former Minister of Health in Israel and when students take anatomy they receive their education from the individual who discovered "Lucy's" skull and has made the cover of National Geographic.

The following is what mattered most to me...
1. The American program at Sackler is modeled after US MD schools. Therefore, they take the same classes and run on the same calendar. Technion runs on an Israeli calendar (they don't start until after Sukkot, usually in mid-October).
2. The reputation of Sackler by residency directors far succeeds that of the other two medical schools in Israel. Maybe in future generations Technion will become better known in the residency world now that they have a larger class size than previous years. Reputation of a medical school is created by the success of the graduates from that school in residency programs and beyond. Since the American Program at Sackler has been around since the late 70s, they have a huge leg-up on the other respective schools.
3. Location

NOTE: Technion is a great medical school and is extremely well-known in the research world. But for my goals which include securing a competitive residency, the decision was easy. Sackler would help me more in trying to reach that objective.

 

[Coyote2]

Hi,

The top 3 Caribbean schools are accredited by the states of California, Texas, New York and Florida; I guess Sackler is approved in New York, but does anyone know if an MD from Sackler can practice in California, Texas and Florida?

I would really appreciate it if anyone has an answer or can tell me where to find one. Thanks!

 

[maji]

I think Sackler is accredited by all of the states. I know that Sackler graduates have matched to residency in Texas, California, and Florida.

 

[ChiDoc31]

I am currently a third year med student at an American medical school and am looking into doing an one month rotation in Israel in the spring of 2008. Has anybody heard of any programs that are set up for this currently or how I could go about setting this up. Thank you in advance. -Eric

 

[dpr]

Any thoughts about Technion Vs. Sackler?

WildDoc,

First of all, congrats on your acceptance to Technion. This is a very exciting time for you, but also very taxing... you have a lot of important decisions to make that will affect you for years to come.

Regarding your question about Technion vs. Sackler, I think that ijcMD did a good job of summarizing the major differences/strenghts/weaknesses of the two programs. His three main points are valid and are worthy of consideration:

1. The Israeli academic calendar. The difference in the academic calendar year is primarily a factor during your first two years. After that you are on a traditional US-style rotation schedule. From my standpoint the biggest drawback to the academic calendar is that you have less time between your 2nd and 3rd years versus other schools. The academic calendar runs from Oct-July, so you still get two months off between your first and second years, but you only get one month off between your 2rd and 3rd years. This is when most students take the USMLE Step 1, so that reduces your break even further. Of course, the advantage is that you get a really long summer break before beginning medical school since you dont have to be there until October... this is helpful since it take a lot of time and effort to prepare for a move overseas.

2. Reputation among U.S. residency programs. As ijcMD stated, Sackler is more widely recognized among residency programs... especially in New York & California (since these areas have the most Sackler grads practicing). This is important since prior exposure to medical graduates has been shown to be a very important factor in residency match rates (JAMA - 1992). Nonetheless, there are distinct advantages to having a small class size that may offset this somewhat. Additionally, I think that a medical school's academic research reputation can go a long way in overcoming small number of graduates. A prime example is the Mayo Medical School... they are the smallest medical school in the U.S. (~35 med school graduates/year), but I doubt that their graduates are at a disadvantage due to the small class size.

3. Location. There is a saying in Israel that goes "when you go to Jerusalem you pray, when you go to Tel Aviv you play, but when you go to Haifa you work". If nightlife and culture is high on your list of priorities, then Tel Aviv is your place. I personally dont mind the "quiet life" in Haifa. There are plenty of places to hike, swim, and see that I don't get bored... but I am also not from the city. The bottom line is that Tel Aviv is much more hipster than Haifa...

When it all comes down to it, your decision has to be a personal one that is in line with your personal goals. There are good reasons to go to each of the three Israeli programs and the reasons differ from person to person. You mentioned that one of your primary reasons for wanting to come to Israel for med school was that your family was here. I would take that into account when deciding on which Israeli school would be best for you. Even though Tel Aviv and Haifa are less than an hour apart, the proximity of the school to your family may be a valid factor in your decision since your free time is so limited in medical school. Depending on their location, choosing one school over the other could mean the difference between seeing your family once or twice a week vs. once or twice per semester.

Regarding the California medical school; in terms of getting the most competitive U.S. residency possible, you are probably better off going to medical school in the States versus any of the Israeli schools. That's not to say that you cannot get into a competitive residency from an Israeli school, but if you go to a U.S. school you don't have to be concerned with the general bias that some residency are known to have regarding foreign graduates.

Hope this helps!

Feel free to drop me an email if you have further questions,
[email protected]

 

[dpr]

The top 3 Caribbean schools are accredited by the states of California, Texas, New York and Florida; I guess Sackler is approved in New York, but does anyone know if an MD from Sackler can practice in California, Texas and Florida?

The three American medical programs in Israel (Technion, Sackler, & Ben Gurion) are accredited in all 50 states. The Israeli programs are really in a different category all together when compared to the Caribbean schools. As such, their graduates do not typically face the accreditation difficulties of graduates from most Caribbean schools. The reason for this is that the Caribbean schools exist solely as a "plan B" for North American students who do not get in to U.S. & Canadian medical schools. Many sub-par medical schools have opened their doors hoping to "cash in" on the opportunity to train U.S. medical students. As a result of these factors, graduates of the Caribbean schools often have difficulties proving the validity of their medical degree when it comes time to get state medical licensure.

On the other hand, the reasons that people go to Israeli schools are generally much different. Most of my classmates at the Technion got in to U.S. medical schools (including some who were accepted to Ivy League medical schools), but decided to come to Israel to medical school for personal, religious, or academic reasons.

Example: One of the students in my program was enrolled as a MD/PhD student at Harvard Medical School but transferred to the Technion to finish his M.D. after U.S. stem-cell restrictions effectively ended his research project at Harvard. He is still getting his PhD from Harvard, but is doing his M.D. from the Technion because of the ability to do clinical stem-cell research here.

All three of the Israeli medical schools are traditional research-based academic institutions with academic reputations that rival any U.S. medical school (substantial NIH funded research, Nobel Prize winning scientists, regular publication in top medical journals, etc). In fact, NIH funding of the research programs at the Israeli medical schools is greater than funding to research programs of any other country in the world (and is even higher than some U.S. schools). In fact, there are several competitive residency programs (i.e., General Surgery @ Johns Hopkins) that will not take IMG (International Medical Graduate) applicants unless they are from one of the Israeli medical schools.

I don't say all of this to belittle the top three Caribbean schools. SGU, AUC & Ross have reputable programs and thousands of graduates practicing across the US. And if your sole objective is to simply get an MD and practice medicine in the good ole USA, then the Caribbean schools are great. But the Israeli schools are just cut from a different fabric.

The bottom line is that if you are considering Sackler (or either of the other Israeli schools) you need not be worried about accreditation anywhere in the US. Hopefully this was helpful.

 

[UnNethertrash]

How does having an American girlfriend who lives with you work out, would she be able to live with you in israel/get a job? I have no idea what their visas are like.

 

[dpr]

UnNethertrash,
As a general rule, the longest visas that are granted in Israel are 3 month tourist visas. The visas can be renewed every three months, but she would have to fly out of the country for a few days, then return and get a new tourist visa. There are actually a lot of people living in Israel that do this.

The primary exceptions to the standard tourist visa are for students of Israeli accredited colleges & universities (i.e., medical students) and their spouses who can stay uninterrupted for the entirity of their studies. If you guys are not legally married in your country of citizenship there is no possible way for her to "ride" on your visa.

If you are married she could get a basic "student's wife" visa (which doesn't allow her to work), then apply to have her visa converted into a working visa. This involves finding an employer here in Israel that would "sponsor her" by writing a letter on her behalf stating that they could not fill their position with an Israeli and asking. This actually isnt as hard as it sounds because there are frequently job openings here that are only suitable for native-English speakers.

The only other possible option would be for her to declare Aliyah (i.e., declare her intention to seek Israeli citizenship).

Hope this helps...

 

[UnNethertrash]

DPR,

Thanks.

Cheers
-UnNethertrash

 

[hope12]

Received interview from Sackler today!!!!

 

[Coyote2]

Thanks a lot for the answers dpr and maji!

 

[lainy105]

Received interview from Sackler today!!!!

do you mind sharing your stats with me? was it phone or email?

 

[lainy105]

congrats, by the way!

 

[maji]

I am curious, for those of you applying, does the NY office still send out 1 line emails in all lower case with no signature at the end?

Also, good luck to everyone on your interviews, 90% of them are very laid back.

 

[lainy105]

yay, just got an interview invite from Sackler!!

 

[maji]

Congrats!

 

[Mace]

yay, just got an interview invite from Sackler!!

Hey congrats...


Do you (and anyone else who has gotten an interview/acceptance from Sackler) mind sharing your stats?

 

[lainy105]

Hey congrats...


Do you (and anyone else who has gotten an interview/acceptance from Sackler) mind sharing your stats?

27P (9,9,9) and 3.46 gpa

 

[Mace]

Thanks for sharing....

I wish I had a better idea of the kind of applicant Sackler is looking for - I have heard of people getting in with quite a wide range in GPA and MCAT.

 

[maji]

You can never know what they want, thats just how life is. I think the mcat range in our class is from 22 to 36. Just mail in the app and hope for an interview. A good essay probably goes a long way.

 

[dave613]

i just received an interview invite today: 29M, 3.81gpa.

 

[berrypie]

Hey guys, I just got an acceptance to the Technion program in Haifa! I also have an interview for Sackler in the next few weeks.

The reason I wanted to post is because I was convinced that with my low MCAT score (25O) I would not get in anywhere. True, I got NO love from American schools, but at least I know that I can go to Israel and get a kick-ass education and become a frickin doctor if I want to!!!

Keep the faith and good luck

BTW, my cGPA was 3.75 and my science GPA was 4.0

 

[dpr]

Congratulations berrypie. Your strong GPA is a reflection of the hard work you have put into your dreams of medical school. Im sure you will be very successful in medical school wherever you decide to go... but of course, I hope to see you at Technion in the fall!

Regardless of which school you choose, let me know if I can do anything to help you in your transition to Israel. [email protected]

-dpr

 

[dpr]

i just received an interview invite today: 29M, 3.81gpa.

Congrats dave613 on your interview invite. As far as I know, the MD/PhD program at the Technion is the only MD/PhD program for American students in Israel; but it is a very very good program. In fact, it is probably the only school in the world where medical students and PhD students can conduct their primary research research in Nobel Prize winning laboratories under the direction of Nobel Laureates... Labs of this calibre in the U.S. typically only accept post-doc positions and not PhD students or MD students.

Best of luck with your interview!
dpr

 

[dave613]

Congrats dave613 on your interview invite. As far as I know, the MD/PhD program at the Technion is the only MD/PhD program for American students in Israel; but it is a very very good program. In fact, it is probably the only school in the world where medical students and PhD students can conduct their primary research research in Nobel Prize winning laboratories under the direction of Nobel Laureates... Labs of this calibre in the U.S. typically only accept post-doc positions and not PhD students or MD students.

Best of luck with your interview!
dpr

Thanks Dpr for your advice. Once you get an interview at sackler , how difficult is it to get the acceptance?

 

[dpr]

I honestly can't tell you "how difficult" it is to get in once you get an interview... but I would assume that they wouldn't even give you an interview if they didn't think you were a strong candidate.