It seems many future DOs have chip on their shoulder

[JaggerPlate]

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Those numbers are incorrect. They come from some study by the AACOM and are the numbers for people who applied both. I personally think a large number of non-trad applicants + a proliferation of newer schools with lower admissions standards for the first few classes (in a smaller sect also where 2-3 new schools our of 28/29 can mess with averages), makes DO averages appear lower than they are, but ... it's my understanding that they're around a 26.5/3.5 and MD are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6/30ish???

Just to add some perspective though ... some of the DO schools that put a bigger emphasis on numbers have averages up into the 28+ zone. My anecdotal experience just from interviewing was '3.5/28.' I heard this combination thrown around more than anything else.

Frankly, the admission standards are lower. I'm unsure how they will change in the future. I'd naturally say they would increase and close the gap, but more newer DO schools each year - with no sign of stopping -, increased MD spots, and less and less incentive to enter medicine make me uncertain.

In my opinion, it really becomes a non-issue when you reach medical school. If you can hack it, take the USMLE, and match some ACGME program with US MD students, I can hardly imagine you'll be ranked in residency by your MCAT scores. Does that change the fact that I think the DO MCAT averages should be higher??? No. But it is what it is, and it really doesn't seem to be hurting many successful DOs.

aka: shrug??

 

[Superman DO]

Those numbers are incorrect. They come from some study by the AACOM and are the numbers for people who applied both. I personally think a large number of non-trad applicants + a proliferation of newer schools with lower admissions standards for the first few classes (in a smaller sect also where 2-3 new schools our of 28/29 can mess with averages), makes DO averages appear lower than they are, but ... it's my understanding that they're around a 26.5/3.5 and MD are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6/30ish???

Just to add some perspective though ... some of the DO schools that put a bigger emphasis on numbers have averages up into the 28+ zone. My anecdotal experience just from interviewing was '3.5/28.' I heard this combination thrown around more than anything else.

Frankly, the admission standards are lower. I'm unsure how they will change in the future. I'd naturally say they would increase and close the gap, but more newer DO schools each year - with no sign of stopping -, increased MD spots, and less and less incentive to enter medicine make me uncertain.

In my opinion, it really becomes a non-issue when you reach medical school. If you can hack it, take the USMLE, and match some ACGME program with US MD students, I can hardly imagine you'll be ranked in residency by your MCAT scores. Does that change the fact that I think the DO MCAT averages should be higher??? No. But it is what it is, and it really doesn't seem to be hurting many successful DOs.

aka: shrug??

I agree. . .the admissions standards might be lower, but once you are here, everybody in medical school is pretty much learning the same stuff. And, I can guarantee that anywhere that you go, you will be busting your butt to keep up with all the material. Like many have said before, medical school is not really hard in terms of difficulty, it is just the amount of material. Sure, DOs schools might accept people with a lower MCAT score, but I'm sure they really examine the individual to see if they can really keep up with the fast pace. In the end, the DO graduation rate is pretty much the same as the MD graduation rate. So, just because a DO school accepts people with lower scores, it doesn't mean that they are not quality individuals. It is all about busting your butt to stay afloat while you are in med school. And, I think every school, both MD and DO, does a good job for selecting for this criteria.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I agree. . .the admissions standards might be lower, but once you are here, everybody in medical school is pretty much learning the same stuff. And, I can guarantee that anywhere that you go, you will be busting your butt to keep up with all the material. Like many have said before, medical school is not really hard in terms of difficulty, it is just the amount of material. Sure, DOs schools might accept people with a lower MCAT score, but I'm sure they really examine the individual to see if they can really keep up with the fast pace. In the end, the DO graduation rate is pretty much the same as the MD graduation rate. So, just because a DO school accepts people with lower scores, it doesn't mean that they are not quality individuals. It is all about busting your butt to stay afloat while you are in med school. And, I think every school, both MD and DO, does a good job for selecting for this criteria.

👍 agreed.

 

[Bacchus]

Those numbers are incorrect. They come from some study by the AACOM and are the numbers for people who applied both. I personally think a large number of non-trad applicants + a proliferation of newer schools with lower admissions standards for the first few classes (in a smaller sect also where 2-3 new schools our of 28/29 can mess with averages), makes DO averages appear lower than they are, but ... it's my understanding that they're around a 26.5/3.5 and MD are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6/30ish???

Just to add some perspective though ... some of the DO schools that put a bigger emphasis on numbers have averages up into the 28+ zone. My anecdotal experience just from interviewing was '3.5/28.' I heard this combination thrown around more than anything else.

Frankly, the admission standards are lower. I'm unsure how they will change in the future. I'd naturally say they would increase and close the gap, but more newer DO schools each year - with no sign of stopping -, increased MD spots, and less and less incentive to enter medicine make me uncertain.

In my opinion, it really becomes a non-issue when you reach medical school. If you can hack it, take the USMLE, and match some ACGME program with US MD students, I can hardly imagine you'll be ranked in residency by your MCAT scores. Does that change the fact that I think the DO MCAT averages should be higher??? No. But it is what it is, and it really doesn't seem to be hurting many successful DOs.

aka: shrug??

I might just have to write the date and time of this post on my calendar. Haha.

 

[Dissected]

Ok so for the admissions criteria this year...

MD schools average accepted student 3.65 GPA/ 30 MCAT
DO Schools Average accepted student 3.60 GPA/ 29 MCAT

Baaahaha. .

Good one.

 

[JHInt]

Now, I'm not calling you a liar but you need to show your sources. People in the past have called you out for what we will call, nicely, exaggerations of the truth. For instance, you have come up with such gems as:

Claiming your NYCOM classmates were "intern of the year" in cardiology at JHH. Considering not only that interns aren't cardiolgy fellows, or the obvious that no NYCOM graduate has ever matched to JHH I think you might want to start citing your sources

I think you are also untruthful... I am a resident at JH, and I know of 2 other residents at JH, another also recently completed residency in cardiology at JH. We are all from NYCOM

 

[christina30]

Now, I'm not calling you a liar but you need to show your sources. People in the past have called you out for what we will call, nicely, exaggerations of the truth. For instance, you have come up with such gems as:

Claiming your NYCOM classmates were "intern of the year" in cardiology at JHH. Considering not only that interns aren't cardiolgy fellows, or the obvious that no NYCOM graduate has ever matched to JHH I think you might want to start citing your sources

And for what it's worth, I have NYCOM's match list from last year, and there was someone who match at Hopkins.

It may only be one person, but maybe we should stop speaking in absolutes and "obviously"s here. 🙄

 

[engineeredout]

I don't post too often but I certainly read enough threads to realize something: many future DOs seem to have a large chip on their respective shoulders.

I don't think future DOs should always feel obligated to defend the profession and get all bent out of shape every time someone comes into this forum and doesn't know EVERYTHING about osteopathic medicine. We can't forget there was a time when none of us knew anything about the profession.

I am not trying to sound like 'morel orel" (that how you spell the show?) but I am really into osteopathy. Every DO i have ever talked to about osteopathy have answered my questions politely and honestly without sounding angry or defensive...and I think we should do the same even if the questions do get frustrating.

Sorry for the rant.

I'm not reading through all the responses, so if what I said has already been said, so be it.

I have no idea what "morel orel" is.

Osteopathy =/= osteopathic medicine.

Getting tired of hearing whiney premeds who make posts that basically amount to "I don't think my gpa is high enough to get into a USMD school so my two options are suicide or DO" is not the same as being overly protective of the DO profession.

I don't know any of my fellow medical students who have an inferiority complex about being a DO student, and aside from wednesday afternoons (OPP lab) I don't think anyone actually remembers that they're not an MD student. We're medical students, period. It's the premeds who feel like they gotta pull out the ruler every time they hear somebody ask "whats DO"?

 

[Limvostov]

Couldn't agree more with Engineeredout. OPP or OMM is the only time I think I'm in a different land (and I hope it "clicks" for me at some point). Other than that it's medical school and is almost entirely the same as what my friends at MD schools are doing. Your patients are never going to care as long as you do a good job and treat them well. Two years of hospital work full and part time at a hospital with a DO residency and about 20% DO staff and I never heard once "What's the DO for?" from a patient. Though I did hear it on occasion from nurse or CNA, but it was inquisitive in nature as they see all the orders and also noticed PhD after some names and didn't know what that was for either. Just be happy with your success, study hard, and be the best physician you can be and hire PA's 🙂laugh🙂.

 

[TallScrubs]

I'm not reading through all the responses, so if what I said has already been said, so be it.

I have no idea what "morel orel" is.

Osteopathy =/= osteopathic medicine.

Getting tired of hearing whiney premeds who make posts that basically amount to "I don't think my gpa is high enough to get into a USMD school so my two options are suicide or DO" is not the same as being overly protective of the DO profession.

I don't know any of my fellow medical students who have an inferiority complex about being a DO student, and aside from wednesday afternoons (OPP lab) I don't think anyone actually remembers that they're not an MD student. We're medical students, period. It's the premeds who feel like they gotta pull out the ruler every time they hear somebody ask "whats DO"?

Morel Orel is a stupid tv show. On a different note, i guess i should rename this thread it seems like pre-dos have chip on shoulder.

 

[Instatewaiter]

And for what it's worth, I have NYCOM's match list from last year, and there was someone who match at Hopkins.

It may only be one person, but maybe we should stop speaking in absolutes and "obviously"s here. 🙄

There is a big difference between matching to the main campus and matching to a branch campus. Places like UCSF fresno, hopkins Sinai and to a lesser extent Hopkins bayview are not the same as UCSF or Hopkins.
There is a difference between a satellite campus and the real thing.

Just an FYI when you're look at match lists.

I think you are also untruthful... I am a resident at JH, and I know of 2 other residents at JH, another also recently completed residency in cardiology at JH. We are all from NYCOM

1) Cardiology is a fellowship. There are no cards fellows at hopkins who are DOs. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/experts/division_fellows/index.html

2) I've called you out on this in the past. You're also not an IM resident at Johns Hopkins Hospital. And I know for a fact. Please don't act like you're at JHH when you are not. You can try and fake it to most on this board, but not to me. Please see the location in my signature and read between the lines.

You and I both know you are not a resident at Johns Hopkins Hospital so please stop acting like you are.

 

[christina30]

There is a big difference between matching to the main campus and matching to a branch campus. Places like UCSF fresno, hopkins Sinai and to a lesser extent Hopkins bayview are not the same as UCSF or Hopkins.
There is a difference between a satellite campus and the real thing.

Just an FYI when you're look at match lists.



1) Cardiology is a fellowship. There are no cards fellows at hopkins who are DOs. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/experts/division_fellows/index.html

2) I've called you out on this in the past. You're also not an IM resident at Johns Hopkins Hospital. And I know for a fact. Please don't act like you're at JHH when you are not. You can try and fake it to most on this board, but not to me. Please see the location in my signature and read between the lines.

You and I both know you are not a resident at Johns Hopkins Hospital so please stop acting like you are.

I know how to read a match list, thanks.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/emergencymedicine/residency/people/Pgy1.html

Two DO interns - one from NYCOM. Just as I said earlier.

Didn't realize, however, we were specifying internal medicine? I can only pay so much attention to this bickering.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I know how to read a match list, thanks.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/emergencymedicine/residency/people/Pgy1.html

Two DO interns - one from NYCOM. Just as I said earlier.

I don't know what you if you guys are arguing about IM residencies, but it does seem like hopkins gets a lot of DO's for EM. I like.

 

[cbrons]

I know how to read a match list, thanks.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/emergencymedicine/residency/people/Pgy1.html

Two DO interns - one from NYCOM. Just as I said earlier.

Didn't realize, however, we were specifying internal medicine? I can only pay so much attention to this bickering.

That one chick DO is cute.

 

[sideways]

That one chick DO is pretty hot.

wouldhit.jpg

 

[cbrons]

wouldhit.jpg

Oh 4 sure. But after consulting with two of my friends who were on the coaches adjacent to me, I have amended my original evaluation to "cute."

 

[sideways]

Oh 4 sure. But after consulting with two of my friends who were on the coaches adjacent to me, I have amended my original evaluation to "cute."

It depends what kind of body's attached to that face. If she's got the right curves, she's definitely a hard target. Sucks to be her though - all those guys in her residency class look like they have chromosomal disorders. That last dude's head looks like it's about to explode.

 

[cbrons]

It depends what kind of body's attached to that face. If she's got the right curves, she's definitely a hard target. Sucks to be her though - all those guys in her residency class look like they have chromosomal disorders. That last dude's head looks like it's about to explode.

She probably hits up the male nurses. Too bad 🙁

I could get in serious trouble in med. school. I better find a serious relationship or a distracting hobby before I go. Unless all the girls are ugly. But I doubt that 🙁

 

[NYEMMED]

There is a big difference between matching to the main campus and matching to a branch campus. Places like UCSF fresno, hopkins Sinai and to a lesser extent Hopkins bayview are not the same as UCSF or Hopkins.
There is a difference between a satellite campus and the real thing.

Just an FYI when you're look at match lists.



1) Cardiology is a fellowship. There are no cards fellows at hopkins who are DOs. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/experts/division_fellows/index.html

2) I've called you out on this in the past. You're also not an IM resident at Johns Hopkins Hospital. And I know for a fact. Please don't act like you're at JHH when you are not. You can try and fake it to most on this board, but not to me. Please see the location in my signature and read between the lines.

You and I both know you are not a resident at Johns Hopkins Hospital so please stop acting like you are.

General Internal Medicine Residency Program Current Residents
Assistant Chiefs of Service

Jennifer Cheng, M.D.
University of Virginia

Theresa A. Rowe, D.O.
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

Senior Assistant Residents (PGY-3)

Sean T. Agbor-Enoh, M.D.
Universite de Yaounde

David S. Chang, M.D.*
Tufts University

Justin D. Chronister, D.O.
Oklahoma State University

Claudia P. Dumfeh, M.D.*
Albert Einstein University

Mary K. Elfrey, D.O.
New York College of Osteopathic Med.

Ariel R. Green, M.D.*
Johns Hopkins University

Ramin Herati, M.D.
Washington University

Brian M. Howard, M.D.
Johns Hopkins University

Joyce M. Koh, M.D.
Milton S. Hershey Medical Center

Kit Lu, M.D.
Florida State University

Meta Mobula, M.D.*
University of California San Francisco

Melissa D. Morgan, M.D.*
Johns Hopkins University

Michael W. Sauder, M.D.
Johns Hopkins University

Nancy Schoenborn, M.D.*
Johns Hopkins University


He wasn't lying after all...

 

[Instatewaiter]

General Internal Medicine Residency Program

Current Residents
Assistant Chiefs of Service

Jennifer Cheng, M.D.
University of Virginia

Theresa A. Rowe, D.O.
Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine

[List of people]

He wasn't lying after all...

He was lying actually because this list is from Bayview Hospital.

This is from Bayview Hospital, not Hopkins Hospital. Bayview is an "affiliate" community hospital that was bought by Hopkins a decade ago.
When someone says Hopkins they don't mean Sinai hospital (another affiliate) or Bayview hospital although these two hospitals are affiliated with hopkins.

There is a big difference between these hospitals and their training when compared to JHH. Bayview is a satellite hospital just like Sinai is. It is by no means a bad training location but it is not on the same as Hopkins Hospital.

 

[MightyMoose]

It depends what kind of body's attached to that face. If she's got the right curves, she's definitely a hard target.

So true. She could have LBD (lower body disorder). I can't tell you how many times a waitress has walked up to my table and I'm like, "oh yeah!" then she walks away and I see what was hidden by the table and I'm like, "Ohhhh hell no!" haha

She probably hits up the male nurses. Too bad 🙁

I could get in serious trouble in med. school. I better find a serious relationship or a distracting hobby before I go. Unless all the girls are ugly. But I doubt that 🙁

I'm going to say 90% are going to be unattractive, and of the 10% that might be average or better, I'll bet 70% of them are in serious relationships, 2% are going to get around so quickly that if you do go there, you'll have had 'relations' with about half your class, and the last 1% could be potential, but realistically your odds are better outside of school. That would leave you with 1 - 2 girls that are potential in a class of 150-200. Not very good odds. Just my take though.

 

[cbrons]

I'm going to say 90% are going to be unattractive

Most campuses have multiple programs, not just DO.

PA & DPT schools ftw.

 

[MightyMoose]

Most campuses have multiple programs, not just DO.

PA & DPT schools ftw.

So true. PA programs are usually good screeners for talent as well.

 

[cbrons]

So true. PA programs are usually good screeners for talent as well.

The PA girls are less likely to be bat **** crazy like the nurses. All the girls I know who went to nursing school were ****ing insane. On the other hand, all the girls I know who went to PA school were the "cute" type. In other words, they weren't looking smoking hot at 9am at the university coffee shop like the nursing girls were but they were always pleasant to look at. The PA girls are the types you can marry and have kids with. The nursing girls are the types who, much like hurricanes, come on wet & wild but take your house and car on their way out the door shortly thereafter.


Of course, I am drawing extraordinarily offensive generalizations from my own experience.

 

[MightyMoose]

The PA girls are less likely to be bat **** crazy like the nurses. All the girls I know who went to nursing school were ****ing insane. On the other hand, all the girls I know who went to PA school were the "cute" type. In other words, they weren't looking smoking hot at 9am at the university coffee shop like the nursing girls were but they were always pleasant to look at. The PA girls are the types you can marry and have kids with. The nursing girls are the types who, much like hurricanes, come on wet & wild but take your house and car on their way out the door shortly thereafter.


Of course, I am drawing extraordinarily offensive generalizations from my own experience.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

She probably hits up the male nurses. Too bad 🙁

I could get in serious trouble in med. school. I better find a serious relationship or a distracting hobby before I go. Unless all the girls are ugly. But I doubt that 🙁

Haha, I feel bad if these unfortunate few browse the forums here.

 

[Dissected]

The PA girls are less likely to be bat **** crazy like the nurses. All the girls I know who went to nursing school were ****ing insane. On the other hand, all the girls I know who went to PA school were the "cute" type. In other words, they weren't looking smoking hot at 9am at the university coffee shop like the nursing girls were but they were always pleasant to look at. The PA girls are the types you can marry and have kids with. The nursing girls are the types who, much like hurricanes, come on wet & wild but take your house and car on their way out the door shortly thereafter.


Of course, I am drawing extraordinarily offensive generalizations from my own experience.

👍

Couldn't agree more. hahaha

 

[dikoerastenie]

It depends what kind of body's attached to that face. If she's got the right curves, she's definitely a hard target. Sucks to be her though - all those guys in her residency class look like they have chromosomal disorders. That last dude's head looks like it's about to explode.

wtf. she's married.