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I've been dismissed from medical school due to academic reasons. What other options do I have if I want to stay in medicine. I'm a 3rd/4th year now.
I've been dismissed from medical school, what options do I have
- Thread starter Reborn07
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My condolences. As they said, appeal is your best bet. Then the next option if it doesn't work out is looking into a school that will let you get in with 3rd year standing. If not in the US, then Carribeans maybe?
How much of a history of academic trouble do you have? It seems weird to dismiss you when you're so close to your fourth year. It does seem like appeal is your best bet, but if you've repeatedly remediated courses, you may have to start all over at a Caribbean to be a physician. You may want to try for nursing or PA school.
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First--fight or appeal if you can..
2) As said , consider a foreign school.. The big 3 were at one time.. Ross, AUC and Grenada.. The one in Israel has a high USMLE pass rate!
Also DO and PA schools may be possibilities..🙂
2) As said , consider a foreign school.. The big 3 were at one time.. Ross, AUC and Grenada.. The one in Israel has a high USMLE pass rate!
Also DO and PA schools may be possibilities..🙂
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Not so much.
N
njbmd
Your options for attending another medical school (MD or DO) in this country are pretty slim (to none). U.S. medical schools require that you be in "good standing" for transfer which, if you were academically dismissed, would not be the case.
As others have mentioned, you can appeal their decision. Depending on the reasons for your dismissal, you may be able to get them to allow you to re-enter, take a LOA and then return after you have corrected the matter that caused your problems in the first place.
If you attempt to appeal, make sure you have a solid faculty adviser behind you who can voice your concerns in meetings at the administrative level. You may also want to consult with an attorney (who is familiar with academic matters) to see if there are any legal avenues that you can take at this point.
In any event, you should spend some quality time with your Dean of Students to see if there are any options available to you in terms of re-admittance, LOA, or other things. In general, by the time you get to the clinical years, you have make a sizable investment in your career and your school has made an sizable investment in your education. Perhaps there is room for common ground here.
At the very least, you can cut your losses and apply to schools that are outside the U.S.; do very well and then try to get back into the U.S. for residency. While this is not an optimal arrangement, it may be your best option for the practice of medicine in this country. In any event, good luck!
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PA is NOT for med school flunkies. He won't likely get in (many PA programs specifically state that failure from a medical school is an automatic disqualification for PA school). Please stop perpetuating this myth.
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It depends specifically *why*, and I suppose inquiring minds on here (such as myself) want to know more details. Did you fail a shelf or a rotation? That shouldn't be cause for you to flunk out of med school as a whole. I mean, you got through 1st and 2nd year fine. Did you pass USMLE step 1? Was it some sort of cheating thing? At any rate, I would investigate your LEGAL options here. I have seen people use legal avenues with success, to get back in and save their medical education upon being dismissed. Otherwise, osteopathic or Caribbean could be good options, as both options tend to have more of a sympathetic ear to people who have overturned their dark pasts and are earnestly committed to future success. Understand that if you do ever practice medicine, it will probably be FP or psych or something like that.
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Yes, I know DO school may be stretching it...Unless someone has contacts!
(but I would say one can go far with a Ph.D or M.S. in nursing-either clinical, academic or retire pointing fingers doing administrative nursing..[ I think about 13% of nurses are male])
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i hate to kick someone when they're down, but judging from some of your previous posts (eg "foreigners go home and stop stealing our jobs"!), you really don't belong anywhere near medicine. i'm guessing that your clerkship grades/comments probably reflected this, which may be the reason for your current predicament. maybe this is a blessing in disguise-- you got out of a profession not suited for you relatively early in the game. my advice would be to find a non-competitive PhD program out there (there are plenty) and put your nose to the grindstone to try to erase your unsavory academic past. assuming, of course, that you are interested in research. there is life beyond medicine. good luck to you.
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Yep, As the quote goes: "If one makes his bed hard he has to lay in it"..
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Your best best is appealing to the school. No other school will touch you -- having been dismissed from your current school, you are radioactive to admissions types.
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99% sure you can't transfer DO because of the Manipulation Training in the first two years. I say this because I read a thread a while ago where a Caribbean med student was trying to transfer to a DO program and was told nope because of OMT.
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z
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You only get to be in one year. If you got through the third year and got dismissed, you likely had a long long pattern of screw ups. Schools don't just throw you out for the first bad shelf exam score. If this is a US school, you usually get many strikes and chances to fix them before a school would give you the heave ho -- and by the time you are in third year, the school will have made a pretty significant investment in you and cannot fill your spot with a transferee. (Some of your prior posts seem to be on topics relating to Step 2 and selecting 4th year electives, so it would seem you would be pretty deep into or done with 3rd year.)
If you are already in 4th year and really don't have many tests or obligations, it's hard to imagine what you could do "academically" that could get you thrown out. I could see perhaps if you doing things unprofessionally (lying to attendings, not showing up to obligations repeatedly) on a sub-I or elective, but I'm not sure this would be an expulsion for "academic reasons".
So my take is either you are not a US student, or you are not giving us accurate info when you suggest you are a 3d/4th year student being thrown out for "academic" reasons. It doesn't happen unless this was your last straw of a long pattern of unresolved problems. In which case no other US school is going to touch you, period. It's either fix things with this school, or look to one of those less scrupulous offshore place that will take anyone's money.
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Not necessarily. If the OP was having trouble (ie passing Step 2, failing rotations), some schools will allow you take "easy" rotations such as 4th year electives while you get your act together. Yes, obviously ones that don't require previous rotations. That way there isn't an interruption of of your academic timeline, and thus you become a hybrid/bastardized 3rd/4th year student. You know, kind of like a centaur. 🙂
So it's possible that the OP took some 4th year electives along with some core/base/required 3rd year rotations. Whether you agree with this approach or even question it's efficacy is up for debate, but it does happen. To me, it implies that the OP was in some academic trouble and finally laid the straw that broke the camel's back.
I'd beg and plead for them to let you back in and take a leave of absence to get things together. Consulting an attorney may also be useful, but don't threaten anyone with a lawsuit just yet. That would be supremely counterproductive.
-X
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And, if you made it all the way to 3rd year and then got booted, I would be willing to place a bet that your school has a substantial reason to kick you out. I would guess that you're probably not telling us the whole truth. I heard something the other day along the lines of 85% of medical students who quit/get kicked out do so before 3rd year...
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That'd definitely be a tougher one to recover from. I don't really see a point in speculating, though; if the OP wants to provide more details, they will. At this point, OP, I think you've gotten the best advice you'll get without shedding some more light on the situation. Good luck!
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Replying to some of the comments on this page... I don't think OP is lying. It's true that there has to be a history of problems before they get rid of you... but getting dismissed for academic issues is not uncommon. Look at it from the schools point of view. They want a high step 1 pass rate, students who go to great residencies... why not increase those rates by "weeding out" a few of the bad eggs? Schools are just businesses after all.
In this day and age, there is increasingly less time afforded to the student. Administrators, teachers, and hospitals are worried about the bottom line. Research brings in grants. Clinic brings in money. Teaching students? Not really. It's just easier to ignore the students, and let them fend for themselves. If they're not doing well, blame them. Call them dumb. Call them ignorant. Call them childish. Objectify them.
In this day and age, there is increasingly less time afforded to the student. Administrators, teachers, and hospitals are worried about the bottom line. Research brings in grants. Clinic brings in money. Teaching students? Not really. It's just easier to ignore the students, and let them fend for themselves. If they're not doing well, blame them. Call them dumb. Call them ignorant. Call them childish. Objectify them.
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I would like to offer a round of applause for our new member having found and resurrected a 3 year old thread
Edited to point out that our poster's 5 posts since joining were ALL on old threads about getting kicked out of medical school...makes one wonder
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if the OP isn't a doctor by now, it's probably time to give up.
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No, you can always continue.
Caribbean and/or European medical schools won't care.
About that debt, though...
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Oh Caribbean
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So I am facing an academic difficulty at my school. I had some personal issues last semester which resulted in my failing two courses, which does not put me above the threshold for academic dismissal, but close. I remediated one of them, but failed the exam, and that added two more 'failing' credits to the mix. Fortunately, the remediation credits get added onto the Spring semester, so as long as I pass everything this semester, I will fall just below the threshold of academic dismissal.
But here's the problem - the academic counselor at my school thinks it is in my best interest to take a leave of absence this semester, to sort out my life, etc. Our Dean of students thinks this may be best as well. The problem is that if I do take an LOA this semester, those two remediation credits add on to last semester, which then puts me above the threshold for academic dismissal.
The counselor, however, has told me that even if I hit the threshold for academic dismissal, the committee should reinstate me right away in the summer (my school, works on a trisemester schedule) since I have taken the initiative to mend my ways. She didn't give me a guarantee - but she said "I can't guarantee it because I can't predict the future - but I would say I am fairly confident that they would do so"...something to that effect.
That's where the question arises - From my understanding, at my school, even if you are dismissed, the College basically wants you to take a year off and then come back the following academic year, and if you are dismissed once, they are pretty good about letting you back in within one academic cycle, if not sooner. So - I don't understand all of these posts about "i've been dismissed...what now?" Unless you've already been dismissed or separated once, shouldnt your school take you back?
The reason I ask is that the way my counselor made it sound was that just because your credits fall into the 'dismissal' category, doesnt necessarily mean you will be dismissed, and even if you are, they usually let you back in after a year. Is that how most/all medical schools work, DO/MD? Anyone care to advise? Thanks in advance.
But here's the problem - the academic counselor at my school thinks it is in my best interest to take a leave of absence this semester, to sort out my life, etc. Our Dean of students thinks this may be best as well. The problem is that if I do take an LOA this semester, those two remediation credits add on to last semester, which then puts me above the threshold for academic dismissal.
The counselor, however, has told me that even if I hit the threshold for academic dismissal, the committee should reinstate me right away in the summer (my school, works on a trisemester schedule) since I have taken the initiative to mend my ways. She didn't give me a guarantee - but she said "I can't guarantee it because I can't predict the future - but I would say I am fairly confident that they would do so"...something to that effect.
That's where the question arises - From my understanding, at my school, even if you are dismissed, the College basically wants you to take a year off and then come back the following academic year, and if you are dismissed once, they are pretty good about letting you back in within one academic cycle, if not sooner. So - I don't understand all of these posts about "i've been dismissed...what now?" Unless you've already been dismissed or separated once, shouldnt your school take you back?
The reason I ask is that the way my counselor made it sound was that just because your credits fall into the 'dismissal' category, doesnt necessarily mean you will be dismissed, and even if you are, they usually let you back in after a year. Is that how most/all medical schools work, DO/MD? Anyone care to advise? Thanks in advance.
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If COM is anything like CHM, then pretty much the only way to get out is if it will take you more than 7 years to finish. So you can repeat first year twice, then 2nd year twice and still be OK
Thanks, Disinence...I hope we are! I would assume so, I've heard of from one person first-hand that he was dismissed and then immediately reinstated, and now he is on the 5 year program.
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C3bBb
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Do not do anything that could formally give the administration grounds to dismiss you. Taking a year to "sort yourself out" is one of those things. Taking the word of an administrator - who won't even guarantee it - that you won't be dismissed is foolish.
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I agree, academics are creeps. Even if you had the promise in writing...
However, you don't want to piss off their liquid egos...
I would try to say soemthing like. I'm not sure if I'm ready for such a break. Let me try one more semester.
However, you don't want to piss off their liquid egos...
I would try to say soemthing like. I'm not sure if I'm ready for such a break. Let me try one more semester.
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true. Fight to stay in or get LOA. Until then, do not accept DISMISSED
Hope this message finds you well. I'm in big mess, I screwed it up badly. I'm an immigrant AMG who has learned English in adult life(22 y-o). I have failed step 1 and passed it only with minimum passing score of 190 and passed my step2 in first attempt with minimum score of 189, but the nightmare is CS I have attempted 3 times with no success. I have finished all my med school requirement and graduated in may 2013 with an empty envelop w/o my MD degree on it. I was told I need to pass the test before Sept for the school to certify my application as a graduate doctor and to grant me the MD degree. unfortunately I have failed my 3rd final attempt. Today I was told by my dean that there is high probability that I will be dismissed because the school has a policy of no maximum of 3 attempts in USMLE part of test. This means my MD degree will be denied or canceled. Since there is a possibility that the committee might order a dismissal, what are my chances to be given a seat for 4th attempt? since i have finished all my MD degree requirement, can the committee dismissed someone that has finished all requirement and only problem is passing the CS exam? currently I don't know what the school will do with me, but I have hope and faith in GOD he will make way for me. Now I have so many dilemas and with no answers. Should I go through the match 2014 as independent? because I don't think the school will even certify my application with dean's letter. should I quit my job and focus only to pass cs exam? And If I chose to do so I will be broke just after 2 months. I believe this job is the only connection I have now and I believe the program might grant me a complimentary invitation to interview with them and my hope is to give it one more shot in hope to have passing score by ranking order deadline. I know for sure soap is not an option here because it is highly competitive for me. in meantime I don't want to fail this exam again and want to do it right this time around. Another question should I even bother to send my application out with no passing CS exam after 3 attempts? I will strongly appreciate your insights into my dilemas and have high suggestions will help me a lot. In summary here are the 3 questions:
1. Should I go through the match 2014 as independent? 2. should I quit my job and focus only to pass cs exam? 3. should I even bother to send my application out with no passing CS exam after 3 attempts?
Thank you in advance.
1. Should I go through the match 2014 as independent? 2. should I quit my job and focus only to pass cs exam? 3. should I even bother to send my application out with no passing CS exam after 3 attempts?
Thank you in advance.
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There is no point talking about the match or soap until you pass the CS. You need to get permission to take it and to pass it before your school throws you out because you didn't. And that's assuming there are any states that will still license you after a third attempt, which I'm not sure is the case. There is zero probability you can go on to the match or land a residency spot through soap until you put this behind you, so don't even think about residency applications. Right now you need to find out if there is a way to pass it and still get licensed, and do so -- until you get past that hurdle there will be nothing for you in medicine.
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Agree completely.
There is NO point in thinking about residency applications right now. There is no way to "backdoor" a residency if your school won't give you a degree.
You need to figure out first, IF you can even take the CS again, then figure out WHAT you need to do to pass the test.
Thank you all for your suggestions, I will keep you all posted about the committee decision in about 3 wks from now. If by any means that I have the grace of God on me and given a chance to seat for the 4th time. How should I go to obtain test accommodation for extension of my PN time. That where I believe I' m failing because I type slow and was not able to finish all my notes in 10minutes. If only I can get at extra time i will write a decent note to pass the test. Should I seek a diagnosis of Carpal tunnel syndrome or ADHD to get NBME accommodation?
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this is pathetic. so what you're saying is that you failed CS because you type slowly and retook it twice without trying to fix the problem. now you want to try and trick some doctor into giving you a diagnosis you don't have so you can get extra time to type your notes. ever thought that the solution to your problem might be to actually improve yourself and learn how to type faster either by taking a class or using a computer program? you know that EMRs are ubiquitous in clinical practice now and if you type very slowly you're going to be in trouble.
anyway i think you're probably done with medicine. even if you do pass CS on the next attempt and by some miracle your school decides to give you your degree i would be SHOCKED if ANY residency takes you with a step 1 failure, barely passing step 1 and 2 scores and 3 CS failures.
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1. No. You have not graduated medical school yet. Your school is going to have to certify to any potential residency that you will be eligible for a degree. Currently you are not eligible. Until you resolve this issue with your school your application packet won't be able to be completed, so we won't extend interviews to you based on that.
2. If that is what you have to do to pass the exam, then yes. But you need to resolve the "3 strikes and you're out" issue with your school first. If they won't graduate you because of your failures, then studying for a 4th attempt is a non-issue.
3. No... not unless you want to waste the money. While there are no certainties in medicine, it is as close as you will get to an absolute certainty that you will get no interviews based on this aspect. Add the problem from #1 on top of this and if you choose to go through the application process you are just throwing money away.
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While I feel sorry for your situation, what were your thoughts after failing the first or second time?
Even if I failed once I would dedicate a massive amount of time to pass.
If I failed twice I would enroll in ever CS course, read every book and do tons of tutoring to ensure a passing score.
I don't understand how you got so many failures and are just now asking for advice now. It is kinda like the HTN who never took meds for 30 years and shows up in kidney failure. Not much 'fixing' we can do now.
Thanks Dr. Bob for your time and advice. I strongly appreciate it. I will let you know what the school will decide.
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