Jefferson's Weaknesses?

[majahops]

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I feel incredibly fortunate to have been accepted to Jefferson. I was simply amazed by every aspect I saw of the school. I plan to attend.

However, I'm interested to know why Jefferson is ranked where it is (REASONS OTHER THAN RESEARCH FUNDING, PLEASE). I visited schools, including Georgetown University, which seemed to be inferior to Jefferson in quality across so many dimensions including lab and clinical training facilities, technology, location and social atmosphere, yet were ranked substantially higher than Jefferson.

Am I missing something? Why did I come away from Jefferson thinking it rocked so hard?

 

[violet7]

Congrats on your acceptance! I also interviewed at Jeff and was recently accepted. This was my first interview, so I didn't know what to think of the school first, but as I traveled to other schools I realized that Jefferson is a true gem among all of them 🙂 I seriously consider attending now... As to why Jefferson is ranked lower than some other schools, the only answer that comes to mind is research. They are not really research oriented but are very strong in terms of clinical skills and clinical experience. I really liked students at Jefferson. So professional, knowledgeable, friendly and fun at the same time! The best student body I've met so far 🙂 I was also impressed how enthusiastic the faculty was about their school. You can tell that they truly believe that their school is great, and it is. I recently interviewed at one other school (ranked very highly on your MDApps list) and my interviewer had really hard time convincing me that their school is worth attending. You could tell he didn't believe himself! I was shocked... so anyway, yes, I believe Jefferson is a great place and good school despite what the rankings might say. I'm kind of from the area, so I know that among all Philadelphia schools Jefferson ranks #2 after Upenn, and definitely above Drexel, Temple and PCOM.

 

[Giddyup5]

Nothing do to with rankings, but a major weakness is cost.

 

[Bacchus]

Congrats on your acceptance! I also interviewed at Jeff and was recently accepted. This was my first interview, so I didn't know what to think of the school first, but as I traveled to other schools I realized that Jefferson is a true gem among all of them 🙂 I seriously consider attending now... As to why Jefferson is ranked lower than some other schools, the only answer that comes to mind is research. They are not really research oriented but are very strong in terms of clinical skills and clinical experience. I really liked students at Jefferson. So professional, knowledgeable, friendly and fun at the same time! The best student body I've met so far 🙂 I was also impressed how enthusiastic the faculty was about their school. You can tell that they truly believe that their school is great, and it is. I recently interviewed at one other school (ranked very highly on your MDApps list) and my interviewer had really hard time convincing me that their school is worth attending. You could tell he didn't believe himself! I was shocked... so anyway, yes, I believe Jefferson is a great place and good school despite what the rankings might say. I'm kind of from the area, so I know that among all Philadelphia schools Jefferson ranks #2 after Upenn, and definitely above Drexel, Temple and PCOM.

There are no rankings of the Philadelphia schools... careful whose toes you tread on.

 

[Lukkie]

like Giddyup5 said its probably cost. I've been reading up on Jefferson a lot lately and I really like the school's description and goals. congrats on your acceptance.

 

[bluesmd]

However, I'm interested to know why Jefferson is ranked where it is (REASONS OTHER THAN RESEARCH FUNDING, PLEASE).

As to why Jefferson is ranked lower than some other schools,

IMO: because rankings are based on things that you should not be concerned with when choosing a med school. i would say if you enjoyed your time there and they accepted you that you are probably a good fit. if you like philly and you can afford the tuition then you should rank it highly on YOUR list. don't base you rankings on someone's belief on how 'good' a med school is.

 

[aertzin]

There are no rankings of the Philadelphia schools... careful whose toes you tread on.

You're right. There are no rankings of the Philadelphia schools. While personally I agree that Jeff is second behind Penn, the folks at Drexel and Temple would proabably take issue with that assertion. (No offense to PCOM, which I think is one of the best, if not THE best, DO school in the country.)

 

[searun]

Well, the sports fans in Philly are an insane and ungrateful lot. Probably the worst fans of any major city. But if you are not a sports fan, and confine yourself to the med school, you should be ok.

 

[majahops]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was looking for some hidden "red flag," but alas, it appears there are none. I would never base my decision on any of the ranking systems available... No matter what my own fate, Jefferson clearly RULES!

Thanks again.

 

[ANF1986]

Well, the sports fans in Philly are an insane and ungrateful lot. Probably the worst fans of any major city. But if you are not a sports fan, and confine yourself to the med school, you should be ok.

Thats quite the stereotype...Everyone on my campus behaved quite well during the series with minimal property damage...

Congrats on your acceptance dude, come to Philly you wont be disappointed...

 

[majahops]

Oh, I certainly wasn't disappointed and I wouldn't expect to be, if I end up going to Jeff.

Re: the sports feel... It's like a dysfunctional family... between the teams and the citizens of Philly... but at least its a FAMILY, unlike LA... I admired it while in Philly (I was there during the World Series).

Thats quite the stereotype...Everyone on my campus behaved quite well during the series with minimal property damage...

Congrats on your acceptance dude, come to Philly you wont be disappointed...

 

[Bacchus]

Center City living can be expensive.

 

[majahops]

You know, I was really surprised by how reasonable it is though, considering the environment it offers. A comparable setting in any one of the nation's other major cities (LA, NYC, Boston) is going to cost far more. At least that's the impression I got. Am I off?

Center City living can be expensive.

 

[Bacchus]

The housing around Jefferson was moderately priced from what I was told. I heard a 2BR forr $750ish.

 

[Bacchus]

You're right. There are no rankings of the Philadelphia schools. While personally I agree that Jeff is second behind Penn, the folks at Drexel and Temple would proabably take issue with that assertion. (No offense to PCOM, which I think is one of the best, if not THE best, DO school in the country.)

We hold our own.

 

[violet7]

Nothing do to with rankings, but a major weakness is cost.

Jefferson's tuition is comparable to other private schools' tuitions...yes, it's not a state supported school, but it's not more expensive than the majority of private schools on East Coast.

 

[violet7]

There are no rankings of the Philadelphia schools... careful whose toes you tread on.

While there are no published rankings, there are always unpublished opinions. I talked to quite a few physicians, premed advisors, and students from Philladelphia area, and almost all of them rank Jefferson as the second best school in the area after Upenn. PCOM is a DO school as you know, so the only reason why I compared it to Jefferson, Temple and Drexel is because it's a REALLY good DO school...take it as a compliment 😉

 

[richse]

You know, I was really surprised by how reasonable it is though, considering the environment it offers. A comparable setting in any one of the nation's other major cities (LA, NYC, Boston) is going to cost far more. At least that's the impression I got. Am I off?

The cost of living is lower than other cities but $750 for a 2br is not very realistic. We pay 1260 for a 2br with heat and water included. I know of 1br for 900ish. If you go with a roommate or multiple roommates in a bigger place you could pay 5-600 each and have a very nice place.

 

[violet7]

The housing around Jefferson was moderately priced from what I was told. I heard a 2BR forr $750ish.

I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than $750 for 2BR unless you are willing to live to the south of South St, which can be quite dangerous idea if you don't know the area well. Philly is a dangerous city, it's not as bad around Jefferson as it is around Temple, but still you have to be careful with going after low price. You can end up in a scary neighborhood.

 

[violet7]

The cost of living is lower than other cities but $750 for a 2br is not very realistic. We pay 1260 for a 2br with heat and water included. I know of 1br for 900ish. If you go with a roommate or multiple roommates in a bigger place you could pay 5-600 each and have a very nice place.

I agree, $1200 for 2BR sounds a lot more realistic than $750...unless you are willing to move to a dangerous neighborhood 15-20 min away from Jefferson.
I was quite shocked at the cost of living in Boston though. I don't understand why is it so expensive...like $2000 for 2BR, which is nothing special in average area (15 min away from BU)... almost twice as expensive as Philly, and I didn't see much difference in the quality of living, in fact I thought Philadelphia Center City streets look more attractive than Boston's.

 

[ANF1986]

I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than $750 for 2BR unless you are willing to live to the south of South St, which can be quite dangerous idea if you don't know the area well. Philly is a dangerous city, it's not as bad around Jefferson as it is around Temple, but still you have to be careful with going after low price. You can end up in a scary neighborhood.

I live here....Im alive =)

 

[Bacchus]

I was at the AED conference last year/2 years ago and a student giving a tour quoted that priced. She may have been talking per person, with utilities, not sure. Its for the housing that is extremely close to Jeff.

 

[confettiflyer]

Hello all, popping in from the pharmacy side.

I work with a few Jefferson MS-1's and the main complaints I get are:

1) Drilling of interprofessional experience is a tad excessive. They really are emphasizing collaborative practice vs. learning in "silos." There is a program in place where MS-1's are paired up with P-1, nursing, OT, PT, etc... students in small groups and assigned a patient you follow for 2 years.

This can be a pain if you're used to strict didactic methods + clinical experience now and again. The program is full of a lot of fluff (ie reflection papers, somewhat useless on campus meetings spread throughout the year). Also, some MS-1's have complained of crappy groupmates, and vice versa. There have also been isolated complaints of annoying pt's. YMMV with this program.

2) City of Philadelphia can be a bit "in your face" if you're coming from a more suburban environment. The subway smells like piss, homeless people abound. It's like any other big city (NY, DC, Chicago, etc...) The area around Jefferson is pretty safe. The center city area has gentrified quite a bit, so if you stay in that bubble, you're good to go. I consider the safe boundaries to run from South Street to Market Street, then 2nd Street to 24th (encompassing Rittenhouse Square, Washington Square, and Old City...give or take a few).

Temple is where the danger is. Don't even think about venturing outside after dark. There were a few home invasion robberies involving some students a week ago.


More comments on #1 above...some students actually like it. Plus, the benefits the school has envisioned with this program won't come to fruition until you're an actual practicing physician. So who knows. But the main complaint is its taking away from study time and trying to coordinate times with possibly unwilling participants.


This is off topic, but we have MS-1's at the free clinic I'm assigned to (as a P-1) doing exams/SOAP notes/etc... and present to the residents from the hospital. So, I don't know if this is typical of other schools, but JMC will throw you guys right in with a stethoscope and some latex gloves if you so choose.

 

[confettiflyer]

The cost of living is lower than other cities but $750 for a 2br is not very realistic. We pay 1260 for a 2br with heat and water included. I know of 1br for 900ish. If you go with a roommate or multiple roommates in a bigger place you could pay 5-600 each and have a very nice place.

I thought the cost of living would be lower coming from Orange County, CA....this is not the case. If you want to stay within walking distance of campus (and not stay on campus) and be in a safe area, expect to pay ~$1000 for a studio, $1200-$1500 for a one bedroom. Utilities are typically included.

If you want something cheaper, check out the surrounding suburbs (ie. Chestnut Hill, Mt. Airy, Manayunk, Germantown, etc...) where that same $1500 can net you a 4 bedroom HOUSE. Factor in commute time/cost, however.

I DO recommend living in center city at least for your first year if you're not from the area. You can branch out later based on your personal preferences.

Extra -- Parking in center city will run you between $150/mo-$250/mo for a garage. Public transit is sufficient to get where you need to go (most of the time).

 

[tfa2007]

I thought the cost of living would be lower coming from Orange County, CA....this is not the case. If you want to stay within walking distance of campus (and not stay on campus) and be in a safe area, expect to pay ~$1000 for a studio, $1200-$1500 for a one bedroom. Utilities are typically included.

If you want something cheaper, check out the surrounding suburbs (ie. Chestnut Hill, Mt. Airy, Manayunk, Germantown, etc...) where that same $1500 can net you a 4 bedroom HOUSE. Factor in commute time/cost, however.

I DO recommend living in center city at least for your first year if you're not from the area. You can branch out later based on your personal preferences.

Extra -- Parking in center city will run you between $150/mo-$250/mo for a garage. Public transit is sufficient to get where you need to go (most of the time).

I don't think this isn't totally accurate...you can definitely get a one bedroom for less than $1000 around Jefferson, but it depends on what your expectations are for size. If you're a low maintanence person and don't have tons and tons of furniture, you won't need to go crazy with your rent. A $1500 apartment would be gorgeous, a $1200 apartment would be a nice apartment, and a $1000 apartment will be nice but small. If you want to get a better idea of rent in Philly, check out craigslist...that's really the best way to judge.

 

[richse]

I don't think this isn't totally accurate...you can definitely get a one bedroom for less than $1000 around Jefferson, but it depends on what your expectations are for size. If you're a low maintanence person and don't have tons and tons of furniture, you won't need to go crazy with your rent. A $1500 apartment would be gorgeous, a $1200 apartment would be a nice apartment, and a $1000 apartment will be nice but small. If you want to get a better idea of rent in Philly, check out craigslist...that's really the best way to judge.

I have friends with small 1 bdrm/studio apartments very near Jeff for around $900-1000 but they got pretty lucky. Best way to go would be with a roommate. If you don't mind living a few blocks north of Jeff, you can find better deals above Market St. near chinatown. Downsides are the walk is a little further and the area is not quite as nice.

 

[richse]

2) City of Philadelphia can be a bit "in your face" if you're coming from a more suburban environment. The subway smells like piss, homeless people abound. It's like any other big city (NY, DC, Chicago, etc...) The area around Jefferson is pretty safe. The center city area has gentrified quite a bit, so if you stay in that bubble, you're good to go. I consider the safe boundaries to run from South Street to Market Street, then 2nd Street to 24th (encompassing Rittenhouse Square, Washington Square, and Old City...give or take a few).

You should extend the western boundary to at least 42nd street. Unless you really consider University City and UPenn to be a dangerous place.

 

[biophysicianai]

does jefferson tend to do well with residency matches?

 

[richse]

does jefferson tend to do well with residency matches?

The match list they gave us at interview day was impressive (IMO). I'm sure they have it online somewhere.

 

[student1799]

Temple is where the danger is. Don't even think about venturing outside after dark. There were a few home invasion robberies involving some students a week ago.

Wow, you're not kidding. I found this news article on the robberies on the Philadelphia Inquirer's website (Philly.com):


"Robbers targeting Temple students in North Phila.


Philadelphia police yesterday warned Temple University students to be on the lookout for two armed robbers who have been preying on students who live in off-campus housing. The robbers have struck five times between Oct. 15 and Nov. 6, targeting the area bounded by 18th and 20th Streets, and Montgomery Avenue and Norris Street. Capt. Sharon Seaborough of Central Detective Division said the men typically knock on the door between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m., and when the door is opened they rush in. One of the robbers then forces the students into a room at gunpoint, while the other rifles the dwelling for cash, laptops, cell phones, and credit and ATM cards. They then drive off.
There have been no injuries so far because victims have cooperated, Seaborough said, but police worry that this could change. She cautioned students not to open the door if they don't know visitors.
The robbers wear hoodies or a mask, but reveal their faces when talking. Both are stocky. One has a dark mole on the left side of his face. Anyone with information is asked by police to call 215-686-3047 or 215-686-TIPS. - Bonnie L. Cook"


Notice that the robberies took place in broad daylight (I highlighted the time of day). Scary.

 

[confettiflyer]

You should extend the western boundary to at least 42nd street. Unless you really consider University City and UPenn to be a dangerous place.

Oh, yes....UC is safe to ~42nd street or so, I was thinking that it's a bit more convenient for a student to live east of 24th. Otherwise, you start competing with Penn students for housing + aren't really walking distance to Jeff campus.

Then again, living in Rittenhouse means you've got quite a walk, but at least more doable than a walk from UC (which takes about 40-45 minutes from 10th/Chestnut to 38th/Chestnut from my experience).

As for $1k getting a studio/nice apartment...it really depends, the quality of the apartments range from slum to really nice. Craigslist is going to be the best source for finding something. What's available and your own personal luck will determine what you get, things move pretty quick.

 

[philly3584]

2) City of Philadelphia can be a bit "in your face" if you're coming from a more suburban environment. The subway smells like piss, homeless people abound. It's like any other big city (NY, DC, Chicago, etc...) The area around Jefferson is pretty safe. The center city area has gentrified quite a bit, so if you stay in that bubble, you're good to go. I consider the safe boundaries to run from South Street to Market Street, then 2nd Street to 24th (encompassing Rittenhouse Square, Washington Square, and Old City...give or take a few).

What!?? This is ridiculous. There is an entire neighborhood north of Market that is really young, fun, and safe - ever hear of Northern Liberties? Also ever hear of Queen Village? It's south of South St and is also a great - and FUN - place to live. What about Art Museum? Also north of Market St. I personally live in South Philly - south of Washington, near the Italian Market - and it's a fantastic place to live.

Yes, Philly can be a crazy place and there are certainly dangerous areas that require vigilance, but you need to hop in a car and take a tour if you really think everything outside of Center City is the ghetto...

 

[biophysicianai]

I'm going to have to second that.

I lived in a small town in Illinois before heading off to college in NYC. I don't find New York to be anything like what you've described it to be. I honestly don't like NYC that much (o dear God, don't flame me for not liking "The City"), but that's just because I've grown accustom to an everyone-knows-everyone, howdy-neighbor! kind of environment. I've also spent considerable time in Chicago, as I'm not too far away and occasionally ran out of things to do where I lived during middle school/high school. It's not all bad, either.

While I can't vouch for Philly - I have no knowledge of it - your depiction of the other two seems a bit inaccurate.

How well do you know Philly?

 

[tfa2007]

I have lived in Philly my entire life and just want to reassure anyone who has been accepted to a Philly school that it is a fantastic city that should not be feared or snubbed for any reason. Like ANY city, it has its inherent issues and dangers, but to be perfectly honest if you're an intelligent person and don't go walking around alone on quiet unlit streets at night, you don't need to fear for your safety. I've lived here for 22 years and have never had anything happen to me other than having my bike stolen (my fault entirely...didn't lock it up). It's a wonderful city and I can't wait to live here for the next four years in med school as well.

 

[ANNIE8]

bump

 

[lt topperharley]

Well, the sports fans in Philly are an insane and ungrateful lot. Probably the worst fans of any major city. But if you are not a sports fan, and confine yourself to the med school, you should be ok.

wow, someone's bitter their hometown sports fans have no heart.

 

[riceman04]

wow, someone's bitter their hometown sports fans have no heart.

Most Philly sports fans are just annoying and actually dont even understand the sport they are watching. Normally, they just mouth off and act as if they have the remedy to every situation. And if you disagree you get a beer can thrown at you.

I decided not to apply to any Philly schools...and I'm as happy as can be

 

[RoadRunner17]

Most Philly sports fans are just annoying and actually dont even understand the sport they are watching. Normally, they just mouth off and act as if they have the remedy to every situation. And if you disagree you get a beer can thrown at you.

I decided not to apply to any Philly schools...and I'm as happy as can be

Dang, I didn't realize you had no love for Philly. Although given that you always refer to the city as "KILLADELPHIA" I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Give the city some credit, it ain't all that bad! I think I'll miss living here when all is said and done.

That being said I think we were kind of insulated from the action where we were. If we lived right on Broad Street, then life probably could have been a lot more exciting when the Phillies went all the way..

 

[shindotp]

Everytime I see this thread I read it as "Jehovah's Witnesses."

 

[Bacchus]

Broad Street was a mess that night. We just wanted to celebrate. However, after we saw the SWAT Teams and other stuff going down we caught the next trolley and made our way back to W. Philly which is hardly any safer than a riot in Center City.

 

[RoadRunner17]

Broad Street was a mess that night. We just wanted to celebrate. However, after we saw the SWAT Teams and other stuff going down we caught the next trolley and made our way back to W. Philly which is hardly any safer than a riot in Center City.

This is true. A couple Penn students getting sexually assaulted here and there, a couple taxicab muggings, a couple random ppl getting shot and killed 200ft away from my window... and you've got West Philly. But just the same I'm alright with it - living in Detroit and Baltimore taught me to keep my head down..

Naturally this has nothing to do with Jefferson as Jefferson is in a much nicer part of the city, so don't think I'm bagging on Jefferson or even Philly for that matter. I like it here and I'll miss it when I jet off back to school.

 

[Bacchus]

Well I lost all hope in the city when I heard gunshots on my corner. Now, I'm glad to be getting out of the "ghetto" and moving on up to the City Ave area.

 

[RoadRunner17]

Well I lost all hope in the city when I heard gunshots on my corner. Now, I'm glad to be getting out of the "ghetto" and moving on up to the City Ave area.

City Ave? As in, by St. Joe's? Or you mean Manayunk (PCOM)? Yeah sure, it's a pretty good mix of city and suburbia up there. It's good that Philly has fairly good public transportation (SEPTIC: SouthEastern Pennsylvania Transportation Is Crap) even if the trains smell like piss.

But hey, when these two guys got shot 200ft away from my house back in December, the sole consolation I got was that the cops responded in less than 30 seconds.. until I realized that I live a block away from the police station on 40th and Chestnut..

 

[Bacchus]

Yeah, SEPTA isn't the best but it works. I'll be near St. Joe's. Half a mile from PCOM and almost across the street from IHOP.

 

[riceman04]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm a DODGERS FAN!!!!

MANNY IS IN THE BUILDING!!!!!!

 

[Jolie South]

This is off topic, but we have MS-1's at the free clinic I'm assigned to (as a P-1) doing exams/SOAP notes/etc... and present to the residents from the hospital. So, I don't know if this is typical of other schools, but JMC will throw you guys right in with a stethoscope and some latex gloves if you so choose.

I don't think this is all that unusual to Jeff. These are activities that are probably available at most med schools should you seek them out. I participate in a similar program at my school.

 

[Lokhtar]

I heard a 2BR forr $750ish.

Good luck with that.

2) City of Philadelphia can be a bit "in your face" if you're coming from a more suburban environment. The subway smells like piss, homeless people abound. It's like any other big city (NY, DC, Chicago, etc...) The area around Jefferson is pretty safe. The center city area has gentrified quite a bit, so if you stay in that bubble, you're good to go. I consider the safe boundaries to run from South Street to Market Street, then 2nd Street to 24th (encompassing Rittenhouse Square, Washington Square, and Old City...give or take a few).

From 30th to 40th street are the Drexel and Penn campuses, which are very safe. After 40th street, going westward, it gets a little unsafe.

Temple is where the danger is. Don't even think about venturing outside after dark. There were a few home invasion robberies involving some students a week ago.

It's still not that bad. I go out all the time, so do many people. It looks much worse from the outside looking in.

 

[Bacchus]

I would extend that up to 45th. USP's campus is right next door to Penn so there is that security presence. However, past that and it gets sketchy.

 

[virusgirl]

I would extend that up to 45th. USP's campus is right next door to Penn so there is that security presence. However, past that and it gets sketchy.

While I agree that the area up to/including 45th is okay (not great), I don't think there's an appreciable security presence there -- and that raises an important point. While I was living on 46th and Pine, I was first beaten up and then stalked for three days by a drug addict (no joke). There was zero campus security in my area, Philly PD said they don't deal with students, and Penn said I lived too far outside of their catchment area -- so this scary cracked out lady ended up following me to/from school shouting that she was going to "get" me and no one did anything about it. Moral of the story: make sure you live in an area where you fall under the jurisdiction of some form of police/security.

I've never been to the area around Temple, but my friend described it as "the ghetto-est ghetto that ever ghettoed."

PS -- Bacchus I know I was a little beyond the area you were specifying, but I figured it was close enough.

 

[xanthomondo]

You also have to watch out for the daily harassment that you will undergo from the PPA. They live to terrorize Philadelphia residents.