JHU Undergrad Low GPA

[Endo2393]

Alright. I'm gonna try and include everything necessary here. I apologize in advance if I leave anything out. Just let me know what and I'll add it. This is my first post here 🙂 been stalking for a while though.

I'll be graduating Johns Hopkins University this year (as a third year) with a 3.1 cGPA and a BS in Molecular and Cellular Biology. I will have done 240 hours of research by the time I graduate Hopkins.

I'm certified in CPR AED and an ACE certified personal trainer. I've been working as a personal trainer for a year and a half now at the Hopkins rec center. I'm involved in the Hopkins rugby team and many volunteer groups in the community.

I've already taken gre and got 160v 162q 4.5w. And am applying to grad schools (MS in biomedical science mostly but top choice is MA in endocrinology from Berkeley) with hopes of going to med school after that.

I'm planning on starting med school fall of 2016 and hopefully getting an HPSP through the army. Have not taken mcat yet (Planning on it in late 2014).

By the way, I'm a Florida resident. Is this a viable path to med school? What kinds of things should I be doing next year to help my chances? What GPA should I realistically be aiming for in grad school to get me into a med school (doesn't have to be top tier)?

Thanks for your help!

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[Ace-Co-A]

Sounds like you have a good plan... one of my siblings went to Hopkins, so I've heard how tough that school can be. You know that your GPA is on the low side. The MSAR (what's that?) reports that, for matriculants to US MD programs, the 10th percentile overall GPA is 3.4 and the 10th percentile sGPA is 3.3. Hopkins may or may not be one of the schools that AdComs will give you a slight break because of the grade deflation for which it is notorious.

You have your work cut out for you. Kill the MCAT: aim for > 34 (i.e., over 92nd percentile). Your state schools (FIU, FAU, FSU, UF, USF) all have median MCAT scores in the low 30s. The grad school GPA will have to be very strong (probably >3.7) considering how "low" (i.e., in the eyes of AdComs) your undergraduate GPA was. You sound like you have strong research experience -- any publications/presentations? Do you have clinical volunteering/shadowing (your CPR cert. & personal trainer work are a good start)? Medical schools will expect this.

I've given you some food for thought. Make sure to listen to the advice of faculty members who post on these forums (e.g., LizzyM, Goro, Catalysk). The opinions/thoughts/advice of those faculty members (& others I've forgotten to mention) are more important than the opinions/thoughts/advice of pre-med. and medical students on SDN (including me!).

HPSP is a risk (I'm also interested in serving, but you should know that the overwhelming opinion on HPSP is very negative on these forums).

Best of luck to you. #coolcat

 

[Endo2393]

Sounds like you have a good plan... one of my siblings went to Hopkins, so I've heard how tough that school can be. You know that your GPA is on the low side. The MSAR (what's that?) reports that, for matriculants to US MD programs, the 10th percentile overall GPA is 3.4 and the 10th percentile sGPA is 3.3. Hopkins may or may not be one of the schools that AdComs will give you a slight break because of the grade deflation for which it is notorious.

You have your work cut out for you. Kill the MCAT: aim for > 34 (i.e., over 92nd percentile). Your state schools (FIU, FAU, FSU, UF, USF) all have median MCAT scores in the low 30s. The grad school GPA will have to be very strong (probably >3.7) considering how "low" (i.e., in the eyes of AdComs) your undergraduate GPA was. You sound like you have strong research experience -- any publications/presentations? Do you have clinical volunteering/shadowing (your CPR cert. & personal trainer work are a good start)? Medical schools will expect this.

I've given you some food for thought. Make sure to listen to the advice of faculty members who post on these forums (e.g., LizzyM, Goro, Catalysk). The opinions/thoughts/advice of those faculty members (& others I've forgotten to mention) are more important than the opinions/thoughts/advice of pre-med. and medical students on SDN (including me!).

HPSP is a risk (I'm also interested in serving, but you should know that the overwhelming opinion on HPSP is very negative on these forums).

Best of luck to you. #coolcat

Hopefully getting a publication out this semester. I have a little clinical shadowing experience but I want a lot more.

Any other tips besides kill grad school and mcat haha?

Thank you for the quantification though. The majority of my friends are in the 32-36 range so I think I'll be confident in a good score after taking a class this summer.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Realistically speaking, I think you'll struggle to get an interview. I know JHU is a top school and hard to get great grades. I know also that your major isn't a piece of cake. It's just that the computer will screen you out with a 3.1 gpa, no matter how terrific your MCAT score, unless you're an URM. I also think going to grad school makes the actual MD-process not going to happen. First, how are you going to pay for all this schooling? And why delay your goal, if what you really want is to become a doctor.

I suggest you take one step at a time. 1) do well in your classes now 2) start studying for the MCAT and plan to take it sometime this year. 3) re-evaluate your goals and timing to achieve those goals. Can you pull up your gpa to a 3.5 before graduating? What if you don't? Would you consider a post-bacc program?

 

[Endo2393]

Realistically speaking, I think you'll struggle to get an interview. I know JHU is a top school and hard to get great grades. I know also that your major isn't a piece of cake. It's just that the computer will screen you out with a 3.1 gpa, no matter how terrific your MCAT score, unless you're an URM. I also think going to grad school makes the actual MD-process not going to happen. First, how are you going to pay for all this schooling? And why delay your goal, if what you really want is to become a doctor.

I suggest you take one step at a time. 1) do well in your classes now 2) start studying for the MCAT and plan to take it sometime this year. 3) re-evaluate your goals and timing to achieve those goals. Can you pull up your gpa to a 3.5 before graduating? What if you don't? Would you consider a post-bacc program?

My school strongly recommends masters or post bacc work for anyone with under a 3.5. And that's what I'm doing, grad school. I was told that med schools will look at my grad school GPA over my undergrad at least to get me past computerized screening, etc.

Even if I get a 4.0 this semester with my 17 credit schedule I'll be up to at the most a 3.17 by graduation. Again I'm graduating Hopkins in 3 years by the way.

What is there to re evaluate with timing? Isn't it best to apply for the fall 2016 cycle? So send in my primary apps summer 2015?

Also, I'm Spanish. Grandparents moved to America. Only mom has her bachelors (just did it) and dad only has high school.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

A master's in biomedical science may be fine, or may not be. Sorry I don't know and reluctant to guide you. It's just that with a 3.1, you may have had lots of lower grades in your pre-med requisites and I'm not so sure a masters in biomedicine would make up for that. That's why I think a post-bacc might be better. It covers the basics, which seems where you need to strengthen.

The reason why I suggested you re-evaluate your timing is because you have so many goals, but also seem very rushed to get it all done. Graduate this year? In three years? Take your MCAT? Get into the army? Get your Masters? Apply by 2015? I just commend you for doing it all, but also want to be sure you're doing it to the best of your ability. You don't want to take the MCAT more than once. Nor do you want to apply to med schools more than once.

 

[Endo2393]

I wasn't planning on graduating early. Got my required credits done and here I am. Was originally planning a gap year after a 4 year undergrad anyway so this way keeps me on that timeline. Starting med school in 2016. Also Hopkins really sucks haha.

Can you tell me more about post-bacc vs. masters? How do I find/what are some good post-bacc program suggestions? Don't know much about it. And is that looked at in replacement of basics like biochem that I took in undergrad as far as sGPA?

 

[osprey099]

Alright. I'm gonna try and include everything necessary here. I apologize in advance if I leave anything out. Just let me know what and I'll add it. This is my first post here 🙂 been stalking for a while though.

I'll be graduating Johns Hopkins University this year (as a third year) with a 3.1 cGPA and a BS in Molecular and Cellular Biology. I will have done 240 hours of research by the time I graduate Hopkins.

I'm certified in CPR AED and an ACE certified personal trainer. I've been working as a personal trainer for a year and a half now at the Hopkins rec center. I'm involved in the Hopkins rugby team and many volunteer groups in the community.

I've already taken gre and got 160v 162q 4.5w. And am applying to grad schools (MS in biomedical science mostly but top choice is MA in endocrinology from Berkeley) with hopes of going to med school after that.

I'm planning on starting med school fall of 2016 and hopefully getting an HPSP through the army. Have not taken mcat yet (Planning on it in late 2014).

By the way, I'm a Florida resident. Is this a viable path to med school? What kinds of things should I be doing next year to help my chances? What GPA should I realistically be aiming for in grad school to get me into a med school (doesn't have to be top tier)?

Thanks for your help!

Op, I'm a current JHU senior applying to med schools. In my opinion, a 3.1 from Hopkins is worth (in terms of difficulty of getting) at least a 3.5 at any state/random private schools. However, adcoms will not think like that and would much rather take an applicant with, say a 3.5 from a school like Penn State, over your Hopkins 3.1 if it were a head-to-head between the two of you. Therefore, it would be in your best interests to NOT graduate in 3 years so that you can have your senior year classes count towards your GPA. However, if you are adamant in graduating in 3 years, then the masters degree would be the right way to go. However, even if you perform very well (say a 4.0), you'd still have quite a hard time getting interviews, even at low tier allopathic schools. However, the fact that you are URM and (SES-disadvantaged/first gen-college student?.. I don't know your personal background) may help.

Good luck

 

[Endo2393]

Thanks for the responses. So I guess my question now is... Is post-bacc different/more worth it than a masters in terms of how allopathic schools will look at my GPA?

 

[gyngyn]

Also, I'm Spanish. Grandparents moved to America. Only mom has her bachelors (just did it) and dad only has high school.

Spaniards are not considered an under-represented group. If you have language skills, however, that will be appeciated.

 

[alpinism]

Spanish as in from Spain?

If your ultimate goal is med school, there are only 2 realistic options to maximize your chances:

1. Delay graduation or do a post bacc to bring up your undergrad GPA (doesn't matter which).
2. Enroll in a Special Masters Program (not a traditional masters).

The vast majority of med schools place only a small amount of weight on graduate GPA unless its part of an SMP. Even with a solid MCAT (32-34) and a 3.8+ graduate GPA your chances would be poor with a uGPA under 3.3.

A Hopkins 3.1 is at best worth a 3.4 based on GPA correction algorithms used by some adcoms. Most adcoms won't be that generous. Either way, that's still well below average for most MD schools (3.65).

 

[Endo2393]

Yeah as in from Spain. Technically ladino as my grandparents say.

Will my gre be good for a post bacc or smp? I know people applying to smps but using an mcat score (wasn't good enough to go right to med)

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Spanish as in from Spain?

If your ultimate goal is med school, there are only 2 realistic options to maximize your chances:

1. Delay graduation or do a post bacc to bring up your undergrad GPA (doesn't matter which).
2. Enroll in a Special Masters Program (not a traditional masters).

The vast majority of med schools place only a small amount of weight on graduate GPA unless its part of an SMP. Even with a solid MCAT (32-34) and a 3.8+ graduate GPA your chances would be poor with a uGPA under 3.3.

A Hopkins 3.1 is at best worth a 3.4 based on GPA correction algorithms used by some adcoms. Most adcoms won't be that generous. Either way, that's still well below average for most MD schools (3.65).

@alpinism are you a Hopkins guy? (Not trying to 'out' you ... just curious... feel free to ignore).

Yeah as in from Spain. Technically ladino as my grandparents say.

Will my gre be good for a post bacc or smp? I know people applying to smps but using an mcat score (wasn't good enough to go right to med)

Looks to be a wealth of information about post-bacc. programs here.

I've heard that Temple's post-bac program is pretty good. Here's their website as an example.

 

[alpinism]

@alpinism are you a Hopkins guy? (Not trying to 'out' you ... just curious... feel free to ignore).




Looks to be a wealth of information about post-bacc. programs here.

I've heard that Temple's post-bac program is pretty good. Here's their website as an example.

No worries. I'm a Bloomberg Alumnus.
Let's just say i'm at a highly ranked research med school out east (since I still help with our school's adcom).

 

[Ace-Co-A]

No worries. I'm a Bloomberg Alumnus.
Let's just say i'm at a highly ranked research med school out east (since I still help with our school's adcom).

 

[gyngyn]

This might be the time to tell you that Master's grades will not remediate uGPA as they are presumed to be inflated (this does not pertain to linked SMP's).

 

[Endo2393]

So is this a realistic plan?

Graduate Hopkins with my BS spring 2014 with a 3.1 GPA. Go to cal state (LA or east bay) for post bacc with >3.8 GPA and with 32-35 mcat. Am I a competitive applicant for med schools at this point?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I suggest you go DO. You wont need a SMP for DO as long as your c/sGPA >3.0... You should be fine with 27+ MCAT.

 

[alpinism]

OP that sounds like a solid plan.

 

[Endo2393]

Great. Thanks for your help guys. I'm gonna go send in my cal state post bacc apps this week

 

[DokterMom]

This might be the time to tell you that Master's grades will not remediate uGPA as they are presumed to be inflated (this does not pertain to linked SMP's).

Repeated for emphasis -- GynGyn knows what he's talking about.
Please don't ignore the other posters' advice to postpone graduating until you can get your GPA higher. That low GPA will cost you more 'admission points' than graduating in three years will gain you.
And a few Cal State classes aren't going to 'enhance' your JHU credentials...

 

[Endo2393]

Repeated for emphasis -- GynGyn knows what he's talking about.
Please don't ignore the other posters' advice to postpone graduating until you can get your GPA higher. That low GPA will cost you more 'admission points' than graduating in three years will gain you.
And a few Cal State classes aren't going to 'enhance' your JHU credentials...

I thought the whole point of a post bacc is that it DOES enhance your undergrad GPA...

Staying an extra year at Hopkins doesn't/wouldn't help anything and I don't really see how it could possibly help unless I literally retook all of my major requirements (which my school doesn't let me do). All I could take if I stayed at Hopkins an extra year is elective (non-science) classes. My sGPA would probably be 3.0.

With a post bacc at cal state east bay, my sGPA and cGPA would be extremely enhanced. It's a 33 credit program, I'm pretty sure, and it would show that I know what I'm doing in advanced science classes (unlike my current grades from Hopkins premed classes) and would definitely help for mcat.

So can you explain how staying an extra year would do anything except burn a $60k hole in my pocket?

 

[DokterMom]

Any chance you could do your Cal State bit before graduating?

 

[Endo2393]

Any chance you could do your Cal State bit before graduating?

Post bacc programs require you have a bachelors. I'm confused.. Can you please explain.

 

[Endo2393]

Here's the program I'm applying to for post bacc:
http://www.ce.csueastbay.edu/certificate/PreHealth/index.shtml

 

[Danbo1957]

Read: you must raise your uGPA. Period. Do your senior year at JHU, get it up to a 3.5, then you won't need to do a post bacc.

 

[Endo2393]

Read: you must raise your uGPA. Period. Do your senior year at JHU, get it up to a 3.5, then you won't need to do a post bacc.

I'm trusting less and less people on here... Was this a troll post? I can't even tell.

Assuming I need the standard 120 credits to graduate which I have already... and I've taken all science classes available to me. This brings on 1 statement... I can't take enough credits in one year to bring my GPA up that much. Additionally, even if i could get my GPA up that much, would I be taking all freshmen level elective classes? I still can't see how that helps me as a med applicant with an sGPA of 3.0

Can someone of some competence please respond.... The move seems to be to do a post-bacc over a masters to end up in med school... is this true? Can an admin please answer or someone with real experience

 

[Danbo1957]

I am on an admin committee at a top 50 med-school. We won't consider anyone with a 3.1 uGPA; not with a MS, post-bacc or a 40 MCAT.

 

[Endo2393]

I am on an admin committee at a top 50 med-school. We won't consider anyone with a 3.1 uGPA; not with a MS, post-bacc or a 40 MCAT.

Hence why I'm going to do a post-bacc... I'm graduating undergrad with a 3.1 uGPA. With the post-bacc my GPA will be something like a 3.5 with something like a 3.8 sGPA.. And I'm sure you'd consider that.

But like I said, staying at Hopkins for a fourth year will hurt me as an applicant FAR more than it would help.

 

[candbgirl]

OP you have taken every science class given at JHU? How is that even possible?

 

[osprey099]

Endo, as a fellow Hopkins student, I suggest you talk to the pre-medical office.

First of all, a post-bac is for people who already graduated college but did not take any of the pre-med classes. The "post-bac" program enrolls the student in a (usually) 2 year schedule where the student takes all of the pre-med courses and then applies to med school. What you are applying to is probably more like a masters program, even if they call it a "post-bac."

Next, a 3.1 uGPA is not even going to get you a secondary at a lot of allopathic schools, even if you get a high "post-bac" GPA + MCAT. Gyngyn is an adcom at a top medical school who frequently contributes on SDN. He/she knows what he/she is talking about.

Lastly, graduating in 3 years doesn't earn you any bonus points. Like somebody above mentioned, applying with a 3.1 uGPA will lose you WAY MORE "applicant points" than graduating in 3 years will gain you "applicant points."

And also, if you are REALLY DETERMINED to graduate in 3 years, then just spend that 60k towards some sort of SMP program with linked admission to their medical school, given that you do well in the program.

 

[candbgirl]

Oh wait I get it now. You want to do the Cal State thing because you think you'll get much higher grades than you would if you stayed at JHU.

 

[Endo2393]

OP you have taken every science class given at JHU? How is that even possible?

The way science classes work here are by department. I can't just go and take an upper level chemistry class if I wanted or an upper level neuro class.

I've done 99% of all of the non-plant based upper level bio classes. This year, my third year at Hopkins, I ONLY took upper level Bio classes. No humanities or social sciences really. But like I said, even if I did stay an extra year and there were classes to take, with 20 credits per semester, and happened to get straight A's my uGPA would still be <3.5 and my sGPA probably wouldn't budge.

Whereas, with my understanding of a post-bacc, my sGPA and cGPA would be greatly enhanced, as well as practice for the MCAT.

 

[osprey099]

Endo, as a fellow Hopkins student, I suggest you talk to the pre-medical office.

First of all, a post-bac is for people who already graduated college but did not take any of the pre-med classes. You are already pre-med (since your a Bio major so you have already taken all these requirements). The "post-bac" program enrolls the student in a (usually) 2 year schedule where the student takes all of the pre-med courses and then applies to med school. What you are applying to is probably more like a masters program, even if they call it a "post-bac."

Next, a 3.1 uGPA is not even going to get you a secondary at a lot of allopathic schools, even if you get a high "post-bac" GPA + MCAT. Gyngyn is an adcom at a top medical school who frequently contributes on SDN. He/she knows what he/she is talking about.

Lastly, graduating in 3 years doesn't earn you any bonus points. Like somebody above mentioned, applying with a 3.1 uGPA will lose you WAY MORE "applicant points" than graduating in 3 years will gain you "applicant points."

And also, if you are REALLY DETERMINED to graduate in 3 years, then just spend that 60k towards some sort of SMP program with linked admission to their medical school, given that you do well in the program.

EDIT: oh and also, there are a ton of Hopkins "science" classes that I bet you haven't taken. They can contribute towards your sGPA if you decide to do a 4th year at Hopkins.

 

[Endo2393]

Endo, as a fellow Hopkins student, I suggest you talk to the pre-medical office.

First of all, a post-bac is for people who already graduated college but did not take any of the pre-med classes. The "post-bac" program enrolls the student in a (usually) 2 year schedule where the student takes all of the pre-med courses and then applies to med school. What you are applying to is probably more like a masters program, even if they call it a "post-bac."

Next, a 3.1 uGPA is not even going to get you a secondary at a lot of allopathic schools, even if you get a high "post-bac" GPA + MCAT. Gyngyn is an adcom at a top medical school who frequently contributes on SDN. He/she knows what he/she is talking about.

Lastly, graduating in 3 years doesn't earn you any bonus points. Like somebody above mentioned, applying with a 3.1 uGPA will lose you WAY MORE "applicant points" than graduating in 3 years will gain you "applicant points."

And also, if you are REALLY DETERMINED to graduate in 3 years, then just spend that 60k towards some sort of SMP program with linked admission to their medical school, given that you do well in the program.

I am also applying to SMP's! But the cal state east bay post-bacc has 2 tracks. The career changer track which is 2 years and like you said. But there's also a academic enhancer track that is 1 year and is for people exactly in my situation and what I was advised to do as per the pre-health office here at Hopkins or an SMP (which I'm also applying to)

 

[Endo2393]

I apologize if I got upset at all and I'm taking full responsibility, especially to Danbo1957. I'm hearing different directions of advice from many different people and it's hard to determine which to take as "true".

In summary:
I understand a 3.1 uGPA is low as is the title of this thread.
A 4th year at Hopkins is a waste of money and time. (I've looked into this extensively)

Next step:
I've applied to a few MS programs and now a few post-bacc and SMP's

If I had a choice between an MS, a post-bacc, and an SMP, I would choose an SMP most likely because of the med school connection (and may not even need to take mcat if I do well). But out of MS and post-bacc, my understanding is that a post-bacc would help me more in my goal of going to an allopathic medicine school. Is this true?

 

[sobored]

Hi OP. I did a DIY postbacc back in the day and it was my saving grace. I think you have 2 keys to success:

1) Do a one year postbacc (an extra year at Hopkins is ideal, but your idea of taking classes at CSU is fine, provided you take heavy upper division science course loads and excel).
2) Do well on the MCAT (>30).

In my opinion, if you just do those two things, you will probably be an attractive candidate for some schools, given you apply wisely. Good luck!

 

[Endo2393]

Thank you! I'll also be applying to some DO programs.

Does anyone have advice on how I should pick which programs I apply to? (As far as strategy) aside from in-state (Florida) public schools. My dream school would be U Miami

 

[Stagg737]

I suggest you go DO. You wont need a SMP for DO as long as your c/sGPA >3.0... You should be fine with 27+ MCAT.

I'd still recommend an SMP if those are his stats. While they are acceptable for many DO schools, they certainly are NOT considered competitive at most of them and definitely not at the better ones. That being said I'd still tell OP to look into the DO route.

Endo, as a fellow Hopkins student, I suggest you talk to the pre-medical office.

Lastly, graduating in 3 years doesn't earn you any bonus points. Like somebody above mentioned, applying with a 3.1 uGPA will lose you WAY MORE "applicant points" than graduating in 3 years will gain you "applicant points."

Fact. To be honest, from what I understand graduating in 3 years can actually hurt your application more than help it especially if you aren't a star student. Honestly, with the stats you have I think most med schools will not put you in that category.

Next, a 3.1 uGPA is not even going to get you a secondary at a lot of allopathic schools, even if you get a high "post-bac" GPA + MCAT.

Disagree. I had a 3.13 uGPA (3.21 if you include 2 community college classes) a 29 MCAT and I got secondaries at 23 of the 25 schools I applied to this cycle. I got 3 interview invites so far, 1 MD and 2 DO. I am also still waiting to hear back from about 10 schools (secondaries submitted by September). So either those schools are still considering my application or they're about 3 months behind on their rejection letters...

That being said, I also had a 3.77 from my master's program and a ton of extra curriculars and volunteer work. The reason I got my master's was to show that I was capable of thriving in med-school level classes and that my uGPA did not accurately reflect my potential. The problem was that even with my 3.77 master's gpa, med schools still saw my undergrad gpa. I'm positive that if I had a better GPA as an undergrad I would have had more interviews. I'm also positive that if I hadn't done well in my master's program I wouldn't be going to med school this fall. Unfortunately, you've dug yourself a pretty deep hole, but that doesn't mean you're completely screwed either. If you're not doing a 4th year, then go straight into a grad program, get a strong GPA (~3.8 minimum), and hit at least a 30 on the MCAT to make sure you're competitive at DO schools or at least a 32 if you even want a shot at the MD schools. It probably sounds harsh, but as someone who has been in your situation I can tell you it's going to be a difficult road for you, even if you do have stellar ECs.

So I'd say that doing an SMP/Post-bac can definitely help you, but the bottom line is that it won't erase what is already on your record. Do a master's to show you are capable of completing graduate level classes, rock the MCAT, and be realistic with your applications when you apply. Buy the MSAR. It's $20 for an online copy and it provides a ton of information on every MD school in the U.S., Canada, and the Caribbean. At the bottom is the link to the current DO version of the MSAR. Follow the link then click the 'download...information book' link and you should have the profiles for all the DO schools. For now though I would just focus on the MCAT and your grades. There's no point worrying about the HPSP or even where you're going to go if you don't have a chance of getting in. Good luck!

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