Job Hunt

[michiganpsych08]

So I am an off cycle resident so I just started 4th year and will be graduating in January 2023. When should I start looking for jobs? I have had one place that is interested, but I don't want to take the first offer. I would like to see what else is out there. Is now too early to start looking? Any help would be appreciated!

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[Merovinge]

1 year out is a totally reasonable time frame, you should interview at as many places as feasible (I personally would recommend 5 if possible). You learn a lot on the interview trail and multiple offers only provides you more leverage. Most training programs are pretty chill letting you take a day off for an interview, it's in their interest for you to get a good job.

By 6 months out, I would want to be into the getting offers and seriously deciding phase. You can leave things till later but keep in mind that onboarding can take months. If you need a different state medical license, this can greatly impact this. There is peace of mind (and tax implications) to getting a potential sign-on bonus this year as well.

Your marginal tax for 2022 sign on will be much much better than income earned in 2023, you are unfortunately going to lose out on at least a few thousand in taxes since you will have a full year as resident/full year attending vs 1/2 year resident, 1/2 year attending. The best way to maximize uncle sam is seeing about them front loading a signing bonus accordingly. That said, please don't let taxes decide your job, much better to get no sign-on at a job that you love and pays a good salary at then some place offering a huge sign-on because they can't retain decent docs.

 

[clozareal]

I agree with Merovinge. I would say 9-12 months before starting is probably reasonable. If you're looking into academics, then maybe on the longer side because you have to get letters of recommendations, submit a teaching/diversity statement, etc. Between the verbal offer and a written offer, I've had it take anywhere from 1-4 months, more on the average of 2 months for the offers I've been getting. Then when you get the written offer, having it looked at by a contract lawyer/specialist, taking the time to negotiate, and then finally signing might take another month or two. Also, if you sign at 6 months ahead of time, you MIGHT get credentialed and insurance contracts when you start depending on the speed of the administrative staff, their relationship with insurances, etc.

 

[Stagg737]

If you're looking into academics, then maybe on the longer side because you have to get letters of recommendations, submit a teaching/diversity statement, etc.

I will say that from personal experience this is not uniformly true. Though I have a fairly limited experience of N=3, so very possible these are exceptions.

 

[clozareal]

Makes sense that it wouldn't be uniformly true and probably just with the academic places I've been looking into. Also probably depends on which faculty line you are applying to, which rank you want to enter in at, the setting that you are working in, who they need approval from (the department or the hospital in terms of financial structure), and if you're applying to a position that was available/defined or trying to create your own.

 

[michiganpsych08]

1 year out is a totally reasonable time frame, you should interview at as many places as feasible (I personally would recommend 5 if possible). You learn a lot on the interview trail and multiple offers only provides you more leverage. Most training programs are pretty chill letting you take a day off for an interview, it's in their interest for you to get a good job.

By 6 months out, I would want to be into the getting offers and seriously deciding phase. You can leave things till later but keep in mind that onboarding can take months. If you need a different state medical license, this can greatly impact this. There is peace of mind (and tax implications) to getting a potential sign-on bonus this year as well.

Your marginal tax for 2022 sign on will be much much better than income earned in 2023, you are unfortunately going to lose out on at least a few thousand in taxes since you will have a full year as resident/full year attending vs 1/2 year resident, 1/2 year attending. The best way to maximize uncle sam is seeing about them front loading a signing bonus accordingly. That said, please don't let taxes decide your job, much better to get no sign-on at a job that you love and pays a good salary at then some place offering a huge sign-on because they can't retain decent docs.

Thank you so much for your feedback. There are a few area hospitals that I have reached out with and have set up preliminary calls with their in house recruiters. I am interested in inpatient work, which appears not to be advertised as much. So far I have had a lot of positive feedback and setting up further discussions. Hopefully some of these talks leads to something. I do have about 5-6 places I am looking at so hopefully I can interview and pull offers from all of them.

Thankfully, I won't need a different state medical license and because I have been moonlighting, I already have some stuff taken care of such as DEA license, which I know can slow down getting credentialed. With the tax situation, are you saying if I do sign a contract try to get the sign on bonus in 2022 vs 2023? I will be sure to inquire about that.

 

[michiganpsych08]

I agree with Merovinge. I would say 9-12 months before starting is probably reasonable. If you're looking into academics, then maybe on the longer side because you have to get letters of recommendations, submit a teaching/diversity statement, etc. Between the verbal offer and a written offer, I've had it take anywhere from 1-4 months, more on the average of 2 months for the offers I've been getting. Then when you get the written offer, having it looked at by a contract lawyer/specialist, taking the time to negotiate, and then finally signing might take another month or two. Also, if you sign at 6 months ahead of time, you MIGHT get credentialed and insurance contracts when you start depending on the speed of the administrative staff, their relationship with insurances, etc.

I am interested in staying on at my current academic program. We will see how that shakes out. How do I go about finding potential contract lawyers/specialist? Just your good ol google search?

 

[splik]

I am interested in staying on at my current academic program. We will see how that shakes out. How do I go about finding potential contract lawyers/specialist? Just your good ol google search?

I don't think you need a contract lawyer if you are looking at working at an academic center. In fact, it would almost certainly be seen as a negative. In addition, many academic institutions don't even have a contract lol. I don't have one! They don't even tell me what I'm getting paid until months after the year has begun. There is likely little to nothing that can be negotiated on paper.

In the real world however, it is a good idea to have someone review your contract. But likely a waste of time or a faux pas for academics or the VA etc.

 

[Merovinge]

With the tax situation, are you saying if I do sign a contract try to get the sign on bonus in 2022 vs 2023? I will be sure to inquire about that.

Yes your marginal tax rate this year is dramatically lower than it will be next year. I would expect most IP gigs to be around 300k/year vs around 60k you make right now. A bonus of $25k for example would be worth a few thousand more this year than next. It's not a huge deal but just something to consider given your off cycle timeframe.

 

[clozareal]

I don't think you need a contract lawyer if you are looking at working at an academic center. In fact, it would almost certainly be seen as a negative. In addition, many academic institutions don't even have a contract lol. I don't have one! They don't even tell me what I'm getting paid until months after the year has begun. There is likely little to nothing that can be negotiated on paper.

In the real world however, it is a good idea to have someone review your contract. But likely a waste of time or a faux pas for academics or the VA etc.

I would say that a contract lawyer could help you understand in plain language what you are signing up for so that you're not surprised by the terms, such as those who get surprised that they have to pay for their own tail insurance if they decide to leave, if there's a non-compete/restrictive covenant and what that means in terms of doing other work (i.e., moonlighting), if you can have a private practice on the side and if so how much of a cut they'll be taking if any, how much administrative time will be protected for you, terms for any productivity bonus, on-call commitments, etc. Only get one if you read the contract and have no idea what it's saying or want clarification on what certain points mean, but they're pretty inexpensive relative to the potential cost that not understanding a certain term might incur.

I agree that you don't want to use a third party to try to negotiate for you at an academic center/VA, but I don't think it's necessarily a faux pas for academics/VA since they wouldn't know whether you got this service on the side to understand your contract. unless you're bringing them into the conversation.

 

[clozareal]

I am interested in staying on at my current academic program. We will see how that shakes out. How do I go about finding potential contract lawyers/specialist? Just your good ol google search?

There's a difference between a contract lawyer who will help to see if all the terms are within legal rights and a contract specialist who can help maximize your compensation package. You can start with the White Coat Investor list and then go from there.

 

[michiganpsych08]

Thanks everyone! This has been helpful! I appreciate all the advice. I don’t think my academic place will need a contract lawyer like y’all said as it is pretty cut and dry. Hoping I do find something in the 300k range. When do people typically sign a contract?

 

[nexus73]

Thanks everyone! This has been helpful! I appreciate all the advice. I don’t think my academic place will need a contract lawyer like y’all said as it is pretty cut and dry. Hoping I do find something in the 300k range. When do people typically sign a contract?

If you know it's the job for you, I would sign as soon as you're comfortable with the contract language. 6-9 months before the job starts for someone finishing residency wouldn't be unheard of. Even though psych is in short supply, if it's a good position there's always the risk someone else takes the position out from under you.