Job interview slide tests

[Amylacea]

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I'm not sure what to expect from slide tests given at private practice job interviews. Since I've been in a subspecialized fellowship for the past year, I'm feeling slightly less conifdent in my general surg path skills. Did anyone try to review anything in particular before an interview? Are there certain topics I should concentrate on? Thanks.

 

[cmz]

I'm not sure what to expect from slide tests given at private practice job interviews. Since I've been in a subspecialized fellowship for the past year, I'm feeling slightly less conifdent in my general surg path skills. Did anyone try to review anything in particular before an interview? Are there certain topics I should concentrate on? Thanks.

I'm not sure if this is a troll post... but this would be almost akin to cramming for the boards the night before. It would be difficult for anyone here to even hazard a guess as to what you may be even be shown. Depending on what kind of practice that is interviewing you... I would say that anything is possible. It might be good to know what kind of surgical specimens that come through their doors (i.e. do they have a particularly active sarcoma surgeon?).

As far as bare-bones minimums, I think it would be reasonable for you to come in prepared knowing how to work-up a case. I am assuming that you'll be given access to their EMR, etc and given a copy of any prior reports, etc. Good luck.

 

[twentyone]

One of my interviews had me attend one of their teaching conferences, then casually asked for my input, along with the trainees and other attendings who were there. I felt like that was the test.

I've heard of really formal slide tests with an answer sheet and time limit and stuff. I guess I would review high yield stuff, but not go crazy. Did you take boards yet?

 

[LADoc00]

There is ONE extremely sketchy California Pathology group that I know of that uses a slide test for applicants.

The cases are absurd, 1/2 of which they didnt even know and sent out in consultation (and I knew this because I had seen the exact cases at my training program).

I know we had a great thread on this somewhere in the past but to conclude: if a practice uses a slide set to test applicants, you do NOT want to be part of that group.



Keep calm and search on.

 

[pathololology]

There is ONE extremely sketchy California Pathology group that I know of that uses a slide test for applicants.

The cases are absurd, 1/2 of which they didnt even know and sent out in consultation (and I knew this because I had seen the exact cases at my training program).

I know we had a great thread on this somewhere in the past but to conclude: if a practice uses a slide set to test applicants, you do NOT want to be part of that group.



Keep calm and search on.

I half agree and half disagree. I don't have an issue with a group giving me a slide test. Training at programs across the US differ incredibly. I don't blame them wanting to see that you at least know how to approach a case. Now if they are giving you consult cases or stacks and stacks of cases, then YES by all means RUN. However, I looked at them as a fun challenge. I killed my subspecialty slide tests, but places where they wanted me to look at general surg path (like the original poster I assume) was a little more difficult. It should at least be open book. Often they don't expect you to get them all right, and I would say I only had a slide test on 30% of interviews. I wouldn't stress about it at all. If you do poorly and its not open book, then I agree with LA Doc . .. you don't want to be there. Often they just want to see how you would work up a case. I can't fault them for just making sure you are an adequate pathologist. . . . but I definitely wouldn't study for it, and if it is too hard, then you probably don't want to be a part of their group anyways . . .

 

[yaah]

Eh, I wouldn't consider it a huge red flag unless they are giving you a box of cases and having you write down your answers or something. If it's someone showing you a slide at a scope and asking you what you think that is fairly normal (I don't know how common it is though) - kind of a way to assess how you think and see you out of interview mode maybe. But yeah if they are selecting applicants based on how they "answer" difficult or judgment call cases that they would send out to a national expert than that is a place you probably do not want to be.

 

[LADoc00]

Eh, I wouldn't consider it a huge red flag unless they are giving you a box of cases and having you write down your answers or something. If it's someone showing you a slide at a scope and asking you what you think that is fairly normal (I don't know how common it is though) - kind of a way to assess how you think and see you out of interview mode maybe. But yeah if they are selecting applicants based on how they "answer" difficult or judgment call cases that they would send out to a national expert than that is a place you probably do not want to be.

That is different, yah if Im looking at marrow on my scope I might ask a person what they think. But the group in question actually found it funny to stack the cases with crazy stuff they couldnt even remotely begin to triage themselves (I know we had a SDN thread on this somewhere in the past) AND you got the case with a 1 line clinical history and NO Immunos which some of the cases you needed like 8+ stains!

It's childish and meant to cause a weakhand applicant to run screaming from the interview process at which point we all gathered in the corner office and snickered. Im very ashamed to have been part of this for a short stint...but I also T.P.'d my 7th grade teacher's house on weekends in Middle School and I grew out of it, some Pathologists dont.

 

[jp123ok]

But the group in question actually found it funny to stack the cases with crazy stuff they couldnt even remotely begin to triage themselves AND you got the case with a 1 line clinical history and NO Immunos which some of the cases you needed like 8+ stains!

That kind of sounds like my board exam!

 

[yaah]

That is different, yah if Im looking at marrow on my scope I might ask a person what they think. But the group in question actually found it funny to stack the cases with crazy stuff they couldnt even remotely begin to triage themselves (I know we had a SDN thread on this somewhere in the past) AND you got the case with a 1 line clinical history and NO Immunos which some of the cases you needed like 8+ stains!

It's childish and meant to cause a weakhand applicant to run screaming from the interview process at which point we all gathered in the corner office and snickered. Im very ashamed to have been part of this for a short stint...but I also T.P.'d my 7th grade teacher's house on weekends in Middle School and I grew out of it, some Pathologists dont.

Someone I went to residency with had a job interview where part of the interview was one hour (I think, might have been different time limit) with a box of slides and a scope and and answer sheet. This did not sound like a great job. Was then randomly at a conference a few months later and this same job was badmouthed by a practicing pathologist when I brought it up as an example wondering if this was common practice. I believe his words to me were, "No one decent wants to work for THAT group."

 

[Sulfinator]

I'm not sure what to expect from slide tests given at private practice job interviews. Since I've been in a subspecialized fellowship for the past year, I'm feeling slightly less conifdent in my general surg path skills. Did anyone try to review anything in particular before an interview? Are there certain topics I should concentrate on? Thanks.

Do you mind commenting on how this experience was for you, Amylacea? I have a job interview coming up and am told that, as part of the interview process, there will be slides for me to look at . Not sure if this will be a casual showing of cases or more of a flat-out test with a box of slides and an answer sheet.

 

[AZpath]

Even straightforward cases can look alien with a different staining protocols.

I have had two interviews that did this to me.
One was a private practice in Kansas 16 years ago and the other was a few years ago when I was trying to relocate.
This practice is rude and unprofessional.

If the job market was not so tight most people presented with this task would walk.
It would be exceedingly rare as it is other specialties.

 

[Thrombus]

In this tight market, we may start charging an application fee for an interview for a potential spot a decade from now. Better yet, if you cold call or cold email us you will be charged a fee for our time.

 

[Sulfinator]

In this tight market, we may start charging an application fee for an interview for a potential spot a decade from now. Better yet, if you cold call or cold email us you will be charged a fee for our time.

Hmmm. Some might actually go for that. . . . . . . I, however, would not.

 

[member0007]

I think that doing away with program directors or fellowship directors such as Adolfo Firpo-Betancourt (http://icahn.mssm.edu/departments-and-institutes/pathology/programs-and-services/pathology-residency) as had been the case with Patrick Lento (http://www.mountsinai.org/profiles/patrick-a-lento the face of a terrorizer), as for Ira Bleiweiss (don't get me started about this one), would inspire a lot of confidence in program directors and job applicants straight out of residencies. To think that 100s residents/fellows are continuing to work with these folks where they are overseeing any aspect of education, work environment, and involved in assessments of individual pathology residents and fellows = more incompetence coming your way. They will harass you and attack you and treat you like a slave and then expect you to be complacent about a lot of stuff... really wacky people who still think that somehow physicians out of medical school are their tools for whatever weird crap they are up to next. In this sort of given residency and fellowship circumstances, don't expect anyone to just hand over a job to you, unlike John Fallon (https://www.nymc.edu/People/John.T.Fallon/index.html) (http://www.westchestermedicalcenter.com/john-fallon-md-phd) (http://www.mountsinai.org/profiles/john-t-fallon) who apparently didn't even have a board certification for years and nor did he have a medical license even while allegedly practicing for sometime in NY but hey give him the job anyway (
John T Fallon
NYS License Number:195978
Date of NYS Licensure:06-08-1994
National Provider ID:
Office Locations:
New York, NY

Medical School
ALBANY MEDICAL COLLEGE, ALBANY NY,
1974
Note: This information cannot be used by healthcare organizations to meet their credentialing requirements as set forth by accrediting bodies such as the Joint Commission or National Committee for Quality Assurance (NCQA).

Graduate Medical Education
SponsorStart DateCompletion DateCompletedSpecialty
MASS GEN HOSP07-01-197706-30-1978ANATOMIC/CLINICAL PATHOLOGY
MASS GEN HOSP07-01-197506-30-1977ANATOMIC/CLINICAL PATHOLOGY
MASS GEN HOSP07-01-197406-30-1975ANATOMIC/CLINICAL PATHOLOGY
Note: This information cannot be used by healthcare organizations to meet their credentialing requirements as set forth by accrediting bodies such as the Joint Commission or National Committee for Quality Assurance (NCQA).

Board Certifications
Name of Board
Certification Date
Expiration Date
*AM BRD OF ANATOMIC PATHOLOGY08-11-2005
1. Note: The state of New York recognizes the specialty boards that are members or components of the ABMS, AOA or RCPSC. Certification by member boards or components of these umbrella organizations is the responsibility of the member organization.

2. Note:For certification dates, a default value of "01" appears in the month field if the specific month was not provided by ABMS.

*ABMS Copyright 2014 American Board of Medical Specialties. All rights reserved.

Professional Memberships (Optional)
The physician did not supply this information

Field of Medicine
Last Updated 05-23-2006
Field
Primary Field of Practice
Pathology-Anatomic and Clinical/Selective Pathology Yes). Don't get me started with Alan Schiller (chair at Hawaii http://blog.hawaii.edu/uhmednow/201...al-leader-in-medical-effects-of-zero-gravity/) or Carlos Cordon-Cardo (not a pathologist, never did any residency http://icahn.mssm.edu/departments-and-institutes/pathology/meet-the-chair) (http://icahn.mssm.edu/departments-and-institutes/pathology/our-vision), so these sort of issues are a major problem in pathology. Put Fallon and Schiller together on any thing, we all have to suffer thru their grade school activities, idiotic solicitous waste of time activities such as http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/04cteye.html?pagewanted=print&_r=0, excerpt "
"We're the only ones in the entire Western Hemisphere who do it this way," said Dr. Alan Schiller, 63, of South Norwalk, who has a Mel Brooks wit sharpened in the Rockaways of Queens. "Maybe there's a place outside Kabul where you have to wait in line to ride a donkey.""), yeah people, this is not a joke. Research the chair of the department and figure out what the deal is before working at any pathology residency or fellowship. These mention people are/ were allowed to in any way involved with/about individual physicians as program directors or chairs and the like, so the race to the bottom for everyone. I was very very traumatized for having afflicted or associated with these poppycock nincompoops, no one can return that time value to me of many years of because it was filled with harassment, hate, racism, sexism, threats, attacks on my person, defamation, hostility, which were a terrible waste and tragedy of my invaluable time and contribution.

In any case, slide tests are de rigueur for a good reason and usually, it's the only way to get a decent job as a pathologist, if you are not connected or related to somebody relevant or sleeping around etc etc.... so get used to it.

 

[Sulfinator]

Okay . . . Well, this thread has pretty much been hijacked.

 

[member0007]

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi

The message to the racist sexist hate mongers that destroyed my life, don't tread or trespass on what I have so as to justify your incompetent existence with high paying jobs subsidized thru federal medicare and NIH funds or act as though you are better than me because I will make you answer for it.


One thing that I wanted to mention about slide tests are that employers can independently access your abilities, rather than relying on program directors etc etc etc, if they have any interest in hiring you for a job. I also think that program directors should not be in the position to create "summative evaluations" when there is no transparent standard for assessment, and this includes the recent invention of ACGME with their progress assessment etc etc. The residency completion should be based on test scores and objective measures forcing residents to actual study and learn during their residency instead of doing non-physician/pathologist jobs like sorting slides or arranging paperwork or grossing work done by PA or technicians. Slide tests are a more objective way of measuring abilities and skills.

 

[path24]

Application fee: $100. 100+ applicants. Minus 825 for pathoutlines ad. Equals nice bank. Make 10K+. Do it every year...i mean..."qualified" pathologists are tough to find....with the current "shortage".

Excellent idea. Easy money from desperate pathologists. Exploit pathologists just like everyone else....academics, gis, uros, quest...etc.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mahatma Gandhi

The message to the racist sexist hate mongers that destroyed my life, don't tread or trespass on what I have so as to justify your incompetent existence with high paying jobs subsidized thru federal medicare and NIH funds or act as though you are better than me because I will make you answer for it.


One thing that I wanted to mention about slide tests are that employers can independently access your abilities, rather than relying on program directors etc etc etc, if they have any interest in hiring you for a job. I also think that program directors should not be in the position to create "summative evaluations" when there is no transparent standard for assessment, and this includes the recent invention of ACGME with their progress assessment etc etc. The residency completion should be based on test scores and objective measures forcing residents to actual study and learn during their residency instead of doing non-physician/pathologist jobs like sorting slides or arranging paperwork or grossing work done by PA or technicians. Slide tests are a more objective way of measuring abilities and skills.

member0007, are you originally from Lebanon?

 

[member0007]

member0007, are you originally from Lebanon?

are you asking because you want my input on peace in the middle east or it's somehow related to my post?

 

[uva1998]

A few years ago, I went on an interview for a private group and was given a "pop" quiz of 25-30 slides, with minimal history (example: 44 year old female). I was given an hour to take it and I had to write down answers. I had no IHCs, special stains, or access to the EMR. They put me at a scope that was in the middle of the hematology laboratory and during the exam, I was asked if I could move so that the tech could review her peripheral smears. The cases were mostly complex, and many needed IHCs. Well, I finished the test, and then I had to meet with the three partners and go over my answers. Two of the guys were very nice and just wanted to see how I would work up a case. The third guy (who obviously made up the test), sat there with an answer sheet and a smirk, and pimped me on several occasions. I was doing okay, but I realized that I did not want to work with this group AT ALL (anyone can look smart when they have the answer sheet in front of them). So politely, at the end of the "test" review, I stood up and said that I did not think that I would fit in with the group and thanked them for their time and walked to the door. The next day they offered me the job, but I turned it down. It was the best decision for me, because I know this group has been through 3 other pathologists since my interview. So I would say, showing slides around or having you sit in on a sign-out without pressure, is not a big deal. I, however, agree that giving a slide test with the intention of playing cruel mind-trick games is not the group you want to be around.

On a side note, I finished my training about 4 years ago and had no problem picking a job. It did take a lot of footwork, cold calls, etc. to find out about unique opportunities. I started contacting everyone in the beginning of my fellowship, basically making a list of all hospitals in my area, and finding out who the pathologists were covering their services. I actually ended up with 3 job offers in the area I wanted, and was able to pick what worked best for me. You must be persistent and follow up, without being annoying. Also, a few of my colleagues found jobs that were initially were part-time, and in a few months became full time.

Good luck on your search!

 

[yaah]

I would not personally use the presence of a slide test to disqualify a group (our group does not have a slide test although I think some members do show cases so they can see how people think a bit). It can be disconcerting and raise red flags, but a lot of times it is done to, as you say, see how you think. The guy with the answer sheet may or may not have been trying to pimp you or challenge you, but probably just wanted to see what kind of thinker you were. Anyone in a big group knows how important a good colleague is, and how damaging it can be to have the opposite. Be careful you don't misinterpret things, some pathologists may not have great social skills but it doesn't mean they aren't great pathologists AND great colleagues. But you do have to go with your gut sometimes.

 

[coroner]

LA also mentioned a slide quiz is a red flag during an interview and gave his take about one he had years ago...

 

[Sulfinator]

Yeah, I saw that thread when I did a search on the topic. I just wanted to see what others who experienced the process more recently would have to say. I was particularly hoping that Amylacea would chime in regarding his experience.

 

[yaah]

In general, my feeling is that the use of a slide test, especially a formal one, is a replacement for doing due diligence in the hiring process. It is meant to assess competence, sure, and probably mostly because groups have been burned by hiring the wrong person. But if you work at it and talk to all the right references and such, you shouldn't need a slide test to assess competence. It's kind of lazy and to me that's why it's a red flag. Having one of the paths show you a slide or two to see how you think is different than putting you in a room with a scope, a box, and an answer key.

 

[Over9000]

One one hand, subjecting an interviewee to a slide test is an insulting breach of professional trust. If one is boarded, it should indicate one's competence.

On the other hand, the standards for pathology resident recruitment and training program quality are essentially nonexistent, and the boards are easily passable by anyone who can study for a few months, so I can see why groups would want to actually test candidates.

It's a shame that certification in our field is truly not proof of one's competence (unlike every other medical field).

It also rubs me the wrong way that at least a quarter of people in this field got here with a history of mediocrity rather than excellence. We've let the standards slide so far down that mediocre is the new normal.

 

[coroner]

I never had a slide quiz during any of my interviews. So I would agree that it is sort of due diligence for a practice to make sure you’re competent by the time offer you an interview. A friend of mine who did dermpath got a slide quiz. He said it was pretty informal and he only got between 5-10 cases without being on the clock. Afterwards, he and the whole group sat around a multiheaded scope and he gave his differential/workup without being pimped. The other members mentioned what aspects that made the cases challenging to them and how the case was eventually signed out. And of course there was no derm as none of them were dermpaths and that would be asinine. He ended up getting hired and is still there today and gets along well with his colleagues. So, I think having a slide quiz can go both ways depending on the place. In my friend's case it worked out, but that may not always be the case. Should you experience this, it's up to you to judge if the experience is giving off a bad vibe.

Another example involved one of my former professors who went from academia to private and had a one-on-one scope session during an interview at a community hospital. When the interviewer said, “Why don’t we look at some slides together”, he responded, “Well I guess I gotta make sure you guys know what you’re looking at”. It was a bit in jest and cocky, yet confident. But he was a professor at a big-name academic institution who was coming to small-town USA and knew he was a well-qualified candidate (note: new grads do not do this for your first job). Anyway, the interviewer said, “You know...I guess you’re right. This does sort of go both ways.” So in that regard, you’re also sizing them up as much as they are you.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Another example involved one of my former professors who went from academia to private had a one-on-one scope session during an interview at a community hospital. When the interviewer said, “Why don’t we look at some slides together”, he responded, “Well I guess I gotta make sure you guys know what you’re looking at”. It was a bit in jest and somewhat cocky, yet confident. But he was a professor at a big-name academic institution who was coming to small-town USA and knew he was a well-qualified candidate (note: new grads do not do this for your first job). Anyway, the interviewer said, “Yeah I guess you’re right, this does sort of go both ways.” So in that regard, you’re also sizing them up as much as they are you.

 

[malchik]

I took a slide test at an interview. About twelve cases, ridiculously hard, none should be signed out without stains. I'm sure I was wrong on more than half of them, but I tried to give a differential and suggest a workup. Apparently that was good enough, was offered the job. I don't think it is necessarily a red flag, nor is it probably as helpful to the hiring group as they might think.