Job Listings

[otown]

Where is the best place to start looking for a job? I've been browsing gaswork, but its slim pickings... Are there any other reputable sites that anyone can recommend?

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[PMPMD]

Not sure about the interwebs... Most ppl I know found their jobs by cold calling the hospitals in their desired city.

 

[veetz]

www.practicelink.com

 

[Dhanwanthari]

Slightly off topic but important nonetheless as you prepare for the job search:

Search the forum on headhunting firms and know the pitfalls of working with them. There are some great discussions here on the pros/cons of using some of these services.

Don't get stuck making a competitive application less attractive by working with headhunters that will require employers to pay you more to cover the headhunter's finding fees.

I've found that attending conferences and putting myself out there has helped me build a network of people I can contact for those never advertised jobs in competitive markets. We'll see how successful that process is after fellowship.

 

[pencan]

indeed.com

is kind of like a global search engine for jobs.

 

[hivoltage]

the other sites will not offer you much more. practice link is a decent one but its slim pickings all around in anesthesia.. thats why everyone is doing a fellowship

 

[IlDestriero]

the other sites will not offer you much more. practice link is a decent one but its slim pickings all around in anesthesia.. thats why everyone is doing a fellowship

Are people really doing fellowships because they can't find jobs? I think they're doing them as a form of insurance against future CRNA issues. It can help get you a job as well, but I've not heard about our residents taking fellowships because they didn't get any offers. Those that wanted jobs got them. One didn't take a fellowship because she got a great offer in her desired city. Maybe she was really just playing the odds?

 

[burntcrispy]

I just finished the process of finding a job this past year so I'll give you my take FWIW.

First, the job market is NO WHERE NEAR what it was 3 years ago. When I was a CA1 the market was wide open. You could go to any city you wanted and get a big job paying big money with a great big sign on bonus. 3 years later (I'm a fellow now) the market feels bone dry, the starting pay isn't as good and if you are offered a sign on bonus it is a red flag that there is something wrong with the job (usually undesirable location). Some of it has to do with the economy and some with Obamacare. A couple of groups flat out told me they were holding off on any hiring to see what happens with Obamacare.

I found that there were indeed jobs to be found but that many of them now are "mommy track" or "employee" positions. It seems that with the contraction of the market that many of the partners out there want to hold on to what they have and have stopped hiring new partners. This isn't necessarily all that bad depending on what you are looking for. I personally did not want to be an employee knowing that while I was busting my butt all night the partners were at home relaxing and counting the money that I was generating for them. That is something you will need to consider when you start to look at your options.

I tried to find jobs on gaswork and practice link. Gaswork is OK but many of the jobs on there are not as good as you will find using other means. I found practice link to be about the same as Gaswork. In my despairation, I tried talking to headhunters but quickly realized that they were idiots and didn't have much to offer. Also, as someone posted above, many groups are unwilling to pay the fees these days because they already have enough applicants coming in without having to pay for them. The headhunter positions tended to be in undesirable areas (small towns, run down cities, etc).

In my opinion, the best way to find a good job is to start cold calling groups in your desired city. I would look up the names of the hospitals, find out the name of the anes group in that system and start calling. Also, talk to some of the former residents who were a year or 2 ahead of you. Try to contact friends from other residencies to see what they are finding. I ended up finding my job through a friend of mine. He found it because he had a friend in the group. The best jobs do not have to advertise. All of the fellows that I work with found their jobs either by word of mouth or cold calling. None of those jobs were listed on the internet.

As for the fellowships, I'm not sure exactly why people are doing them. I have heard that about 30% of anesthesia graduates are now seeking fellowships. When I was a CA1 it was probably about 2% (just guessing here). I'm sure that insuring a job in the future against the nurses is a big reason (largely why I did one) but the tight job market is a significant factor also. I know that at my fellowship the number of applicants has doubled each year for the past 2 years (4x the applicants that we used to get!). I got hired at my new job specifically because I was a fellow with something to bring to the group (CV training with TEE certification). I went on several interviews and each one was looking at me for my CV/TEE skills even though most of these jobs were general anesthesia with only a small percentage of cardiac. The fellowship is only 1 year. That is nothing considering that you have put in 12 years already and that the 1 extra year will give you an edge over the competition for the rest of your career. Just something to think about.

Good luck everyone.

 

[hivoltage]

I just finished the process of finding a job this past year so I'll give you my take FWIW.

First, the job market is NO WHERE NEAR what it was 3 years ago. When I was a CA1 the market was wide open. You could go to any city you wanted and get a big job paying big money with a great big sign on bonus. 3 years later (I'm a fellow now) the market feels bone dry, the starting pay isn't as good and if you are offered a sign on bonus it is a red flag that there is something wrong with the job (usually undesirable location). Some of it has to do with the economy and some with Obamacare. A couple of groups flat out told me they were holding off on any hiring to see what happens with Obamacare.

I found that there were indeed jobs to be found but that many of them now are "mommy track" or "employee" positions. It seems that with the contraction of the market that many of the partners out there want to hold on to what they have and have stopped hiring new partners. This isn't necessarily all that bad depending on what you are looking for. I personally did not want to be an employee knowing that while I was busting my butt all night the partners were at home relaxing and counting the money that I was generating for them. That is something you will need to consider when you start to look at your options.

I tried to find jobs on gaswork and practice link. Gaswork is OK but many of the jobs on there are not as good as you will find using other means. I found practice link to be about the same as Gaswork. In my despairation, I tried talking to headhunters but quickly realized that they were idiots and didn't have much to offer. Also, as someone posted above, many groups are unwilling to pay the fees these days because they already have enough applicants coming in without having to pay for them. The headhunter positions tended to be in undesirable areas (small towns, run down cities, etc).

In my opinion, the best way to find a good job is to start cold calling groups in your desired city. I would look up the names of the hospitals, find out the name of the anes group in that system and start calling. Also, talk to some of the former residents who were a year or 2 ahead of you. Try to contact friends from other residencies to see what they are finding. I ended up finding my job through a friend of mine. He found it because he had a friend in the group. The best jobs do not have to advertise. All of the fellows that I work with found their jobs either by word of mouth or cold calling. None of those jobs were listed on the internet.

As for the fellowships, I'm not sure exactly why people are doing them. I have heard that about 30% of anesthesia graduates are now seeking fellowships. When I was a CA1 it was probably about 2% (just guessing here). I'm sure that insuring a job in the future against the nurses is a big reason (largely why I did one) but the tight job market is a significant factor also. I know that at my fellowship the number of applicants has doubled each year for the past 2 years (4x the applicants that we used to get!). I got hired at my new job specifically because I was a fellow with something to bring to the group (CV training with TEE certification). I went on several interviews and each one was looking at me for my CV/TEE skills even though most of these jobs were general anesthesia with only a small percentage of cardiac. The fellowship is only 1 year. That is nothing considering that you have put in 12 years already and that the 1 extra year will give you an edge over the competition for the rest of your career. Just something to think about.

Good luck everyone.

there you have it!! right from the horses mouth

1) the job market sucks
2) fellowhips are rampant
3) crnas are taking over.(not really,, but thats why everyone is doing a fellowship)

if you have to do a fellowship to ward against crnas after four years of residency there is a major problem

 

[foxtrot]

there you have it!! right from the horses mouth

1) the job market sucks
2) fellowhips are rampant
3) crnas are taking over.(not really,, but thats why everyone is doing a fellowship)

if you have to do a fellowship to ward against crnas after four years of residency there is a major problem

I completely agree with the above post. This is where the academic institutions are completely ignoring reality and so is the ASA. There needs to be an all out media blitz regarding the importance of anesthesiologists in the care of the patient. And academic institutions that train CRNA's need to start opening their eyes to the fact that if you have to do a fellowship to ward against CRNA's after four years of residency, there is a major problem.

 

[CristaGalli]

I just finished the process of finding a job this past year so I'll give you my take FWIW.

First, the job market is NO WHERE NEAR what it was 3 years ago. When I was a CA1 the market was wide open. You could go to any city you wanted and get a big job paying big money with a great big sign on bonus. 3 years later (I'm a fellow now) the market feels bone dry, the starting pay isn't as good and if you are offered a sign on bonus it is a red flag that there is something wrong with the job (usually undesirable location). Some of it has to do with the economy and some with Obamacare. A couple of groups flat out told me they were holding off on any hiring to see what happens with Obamacare.

I found that there were indeed jobs to be found but that many of them now are "mommy track" or "employee" positions. It seems that with the contraction of the market that many of the partners out there want to hold on to what they have and have stopped hiring new partners. This isn't necessarily all that bad depending on what you are looking for. I personally did not want to be an employee knowing that while I was busting my butt all night the partners were at home relaxing and counting the money that I was generating for them. That is something you will need to consider when you start to look at your options.

I tried to find jobs on gaswork and practice link. Gaswork is OK but many of the jobs on there are not as good as you will find using other means. I found practice link to be about the same as Gaswork. In my despairation, I tried talking to headhunters but quickly realized that they were idiots and didn't have much to offer. Also, as someone posted above, many groups are unwilling to pay the fees these days because they already have enough applicants coming in without having to pay for them. The headhunter positions tended to be in undesirable areas (small towns, run down cities, etc).

In my opinion, the best way to find a good job is to start cold calling groups in your desired city. I would look up the names of the hospitals, find out the name of the anes group in that system and start calling. Also, talk to some of the former residents who were a year or 2 ahead of you. Try to contact friends from other residencies to see what they are finding. I ended up finding my job through a friend of mine. He found it because he had a friend in the group. The best jobs do not have to advertise. All of the fellows that I work with found their jobs either by word of mouth or cold calling. None of those jobs were listed on the internet.

As for the fellowships, I'm not sure exactly why people are doing them. I have heard that about 30% of anesthesia graduates are now seeking fellowships. When I was a CA1 it was probably about 2% (just guessing here). I'm sure that insuring a job in the future against the nurses is a big reason (largely why I did one) but the tight job market is a significant factor also. I know that at my fellowship the number of applicants has doubled each year for the past 2 years (4x the applicants that we used to get!). I got hired at my new job specifically because I was a fellow with something to bring to the group (CV training with TEE certification). I went on several interviews and each one was looking at me for my CV/TEE skills even though most of these jobs were general anesthesia with only a small percentage of cardiac. The fellowship is only 1 year. That is nothing considering that you have put in 12 years already and that the 1 extra year will give you an edge over the competition for the rest of your career. Just something to think about.

Good luck everyone.

Thanks for this post, it is very insightful. If you don't mind, could you give us some figures to work with, thanks.
1.) How much are these "mommy/employee" tracks offering and what kind of hours are we talking about?
2.) How much are the sign-on bonuses in these "less-desirable" locations? 3.) How much did you get offered as a starting fellowship trained anesthesiologist and was it in a "desirable" location for you? If so, what location is it?
4.) Are you graduating from a top tier program?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[burntcrispy]

Thanks for this post, it is very insightful. If you don't mind, could you give us some figures to work with, thanks.
1.) How much are these "mommy/employee" tracks offering and what kind of hours are we talking about?
2.) How much are the sign-on bonuses in these "less-desirable" locations? 3.) How much did you get offered as a starting fellowship trained anesthesiologist and was it in a "desirable" location for you? If so, what location is it?
4.) Are you graduating from a top tier program?

Any input is appreciated.

1. The "mommy tracks" are generally around 40 +/- hrs per week, no nights, no weekends, no hollidays. Basically you work as a glorified CRNA and get paid about what a CRNA does or just a bit more. It is a good track for people who don't like to work much or for women/men who want to spend more time at home with their families hence the name.

Employee tracks vary immensely depending on where you go and what you are doing. I know several people who are hospital employees and they are doing quite well. But, as I said, I didn't go to medical school to work for the man. I prefer to be a partner in a business. Maybe one day private practice groups will go the way of the buffalo and we will all be employees of some type. Until that day, I want a partnership so that's what I focused on.

2. As for sign on bonuses in the "less desirable locations", you should check Gaswork. I haven't looked on there in a while but if you search you'll find jobs with listings of their sign ons. I've seen as high as $50K but the money isn't free. In this market if they are paying a big sign on it means that there is some reason they have to lure guys into working there. It may be because it is in a small town in the dead middle of nowhere or it may be in a complete dump of a city. Also, they may have you taking frequent call. You really have to look close at all of the details.

3. Generally I didn't get offered any more money for having a fellowship. But it was because of my fellowship that I got interviews with groups offering full, equal partnership positions (with relatively high income potential). Like I said, I had more to offer than the average Joe graduating from an anes program. With the new CV rules you are not able to get advanced TEE certified without a fellowship. This is a skill that seems to be in somewhat of a high demand right now. Many groups were interested in this. Back when I was searching Gaswork the higher paying jobs were specifically looking for CV guys with TEE certification. Will this always be in high demand, who knows?

I didn't get a job in the exact city that I initially wanted but was able to find a group in a great area and a model that I feel I will fit in well. Finding a job is kind of like interviewing for residency, some if it is deciding if you will be happy there. You have to think about supervision vs MD only vs mix, caseloads, hours, frequency of call, what coworkers are like, reputation of the group, etc. For me I was picky in that I wanted an area that I would enjoy living in, full partnership, good general caseload with BIG cardiac cases, good pay, etc. For me it was finding this package and I believe I was able to find it. I didn't spend the last 13 years of my life training only to have a job that I do not enjoy or to live in an area that I do not like. Consider this when you are looking.

4. I'm not sure how one would judge tiers for residency and fellowships. Do some searches on this topic and you'll see what I mean. I went to very well known residency and am in very well known fellowship. I think many people would consider them to both be top tier. I'm not sure how much the names helped me get a job but I guess it didn't hurt. Most of the places I interviewed had people there that knew me and could vouch for me. (again, that's how I got the interviews as these jobs were not posted anywhere) The group that I am going to actually called around my residency and asked several attendings about me to make sure I was a good guy. They already knew about me before my interview. I was impressed.

Hope this helps.

 

[CristaGalli]

1. The "mommy tracks" are generally around 40 +/- hrs per week, no nights, no weekends, no hollidays. Basically you work as a glorified CRNA and get paid about what a CRNA does or just a bit more. It is a good track for people who don't like to work much or for women/men who want to spend more time at home with their families hence the name.

Employee tracks vary immensely depending on where you go and what you are doing. I know several people who are hospital employees and they are doing quite well. But, as I said, I didn't go to medical school to work for the man. I prefer to be a partner in a business. Maybe one day private practice groups will go the way of the buffalo and we will all be employees of some type. Until that day, I want a partnership so that's what I focused on.

2. As for sign on bonuses in the "less desirable locations", you should check Gaswork. I haven't looked on there in a while but if you search you'll find jobs with listings of their sign ons. I've seen as high as $50K but the money isn't free. In this market if they are paying a big sign on it means that there is some reason they have to lure guys into working there. It may be because it is in a small town in the dead middle of nowhere or it may be in a complete dump of a city. Also, they may have you taking frequent call. You really have to look close at all of the details.

3. Generally I didn't get offered any more money for having a fellowship. But it was because of my fellowship that I got interviews with groups offering full, equal partnership positions (with relatively high income potential). Like I said, I had more to offer than the average Joe graduating from an anes program. With the new CV rules you are not able to get advanced TEE certified without a fellowship. This is a skill that seems to be in somewhat of a high demand right now. Many groups were interested in this. Back when I was searching Gaswork the higher paying jobs were specifically looking for CV guys with TEE certification. Will this always be in high demand, who knows?

I didn't get a job in the exact city that I initially wanted but was able to find a group in a great area and a model that I feel I will fit in well. Finding a job is kind of like interviewing for residency, some if it is deciding if you will be happy there. You have to think about supervision vs MD only vs mix, caseloads, hours, frequency of call, what coworkers are like, reputation of the group, etc. For me I was picky in that I wanted an area that I would enjoy living in, full partnership, good general caseload with BIG cardiac cases, good pay, etc. For me it was finding this package and I believe I was able to find it. I didn't spend the last 13 years of my life training only to have a job that I do not enjoy or to live in an area that I do not like. Consider this when you are looking.

4. I'm not sure how one would judge tiers for residency and fellowships. Do some searches on this topic and you'll see what I mean. I went to very well known residency and am in very well known fellowship. I think many people would consider them to both be top tier. I'm not sure how much the names helped me get a job but I guess it didn't hurt. Most of the places I interviewed had people there that knew me and could vouch for me. (again, that's how I got the interviews as these jobs were not posted anywhere) The group that I am going to actually called around my residency and asked several attendings about me to make sure I was a good guy. They already knew about me before my interview. I was impressed.

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot for the reply, very much appreciated. I will definitely take heed to all your advice. Goodluck on all your future endeavors.

 

[countingdays]

1. The "mommy tracks" are generally around 40 +/- hrs per week, no nights, no weekends, no hollidays. Basically you work as a glorified CRNA and get paid about what a CRNA does or just a bit more. It is a good track for people who don't like to work much or for women/men who want to spend more time at home with their families hence the name.

Employee tracks vary immensely depending on where you go and what you are doing. I know several people who are hospital employees and they are doing quite well. But, as I said, I didn't go to medical school to work for the man. I prefer to be a partner in a business. Maybe one day private practice groups will go the way of the buffalo and we will all be employees of some type. Until that day, I want a partnership so that's what I focused on.

2. As for sign on bonuses in the "less desirable locations", you should check Gaswork. I haven't looked on there in a while but if you search you'll find jobs with listings of their sign ons. I've seen as high as $50K but the money isn't free. In this market if they are paying a big sign on it means that there is some reason they have to lure guys into working there. It may be because it is in a small town in the dead middle of nowhere or it may be in a complete dump of a city. Also, they may have you taking frequent call. You really have to look close at all of the details.

3. Generally I didn't get offered any more money for having a fellowship. But it was because of my fellowship that I got interviews with groups offering full, equal partnership positions (with relatively high income potential). Like I said, I had more to offer than the average Joe graduating from an anes program. With the new CV rules you are not able to get advanced TEE certified without a fellowship. This is a skill that seems to be in somewhat of a high demand right now. Many groups were interested in this. Back when I was searching Gaswork the higher paying jobs were specifically looking for CV guys with TEE certification. Will this always be in high demand, who knows?

I didn't get a job in the exact city that I initially wanted but was able to find a group in a great area and a model that I feel I will fit in well. Finding a job is kind of like interviewing for residency, some if it is deciding if you will be happy there. You have to think about supervision vs MD only vs mix, caseloads, hours, frequency of call, what coworkers are like, reputation of the group, etc. For me I was picky in that I wanted an area that I would enjoy living in, full partnership, good general caseload with BIG cardiac cases, good pay, etc. For me it was finding this package and I believe I was able to find it. I didn't spend the last 13 years of my life training only to have a job that I do not enjoy or to live in an area that I do not like. Consider this when you are looking.

4. I'm not sure how one would judge tiers for residency and fellowships. Do some searches on this topic and you'll see what I mean. I went to very well known residency and am in very well known fellowship. I think many people would consider them to both be top tier. I'm not sure how much the names helped me get a job but I guess it didn't hurt. Most of the places I interviewed had people there that knew me and could vouch for me. (again, that's how I got the interviews as these jobs were not posted anywhere) The group that I am going to actually called around my residency and asked several attendings about me to make sure I was a good guy. They already knew about me before my interview. I was impressed.

Hope this helps.

Working as an anesthesiologist 40 hours a week isn't 'basically a glorified crna'. I don't see a lot of crnas running four rooms while doing lines, regional, preops, postops, and OB.

I know what you mean, that being 'on the clock' is crna-like, but yours was an overstatement, the similarities end there.

Some people seek out mommy tracks. Other times, mommy tracks are all that is offered by the group so they can avoid sharing the partnership money with more people.

 

[seinfeld]

We had a busy interview season this past year, i Had to laugh as a few applicants came to us wanting to get payed partner salaries out of the gate and work less hours. Needless to say we cut off our talks with these individuals. Our group its pretty simple, work more, make more. Want to work 40 hours a week with no nights and weekends dont expect 300K. Many groups are in fights , i mean negotiations, with hospitals about services covered, stipends etc, and many hospitals see that if bundled payments take affect hospital based specialties will be easiest managed as employment models. So dont expect groups to hand out lavish contracts with huge sign on bonuses with no "buy in".

After all this is not the NFL/NBA draft.

Be humble my friends.

 

[ssmallz]

Graduating Ca-3 middle tier program, no fellowship, found a job in a pretty desirable location w/a very reasonable salary. Def agree w/the above, the market is tight in some places but not awful. There are certainly jobs to be found. The biggest thing I learned on the interview trail is that in order to get a job in your dream location, you need to be local. No job available in your dream city, look 45 minutes out and plant yourself there. Jobs in your ideal city will eventually open up and being local, having your states licence and being able to interview at the right time are all important. A group looking to hire needs people to work now or very soon. Unless you have a unique skill set that no one else possesses they might not be willing to wait. Don't give up on your dream gig just because there are no openings now. Now is temporary and time is on your side. Stay in contact, go to local meetings and keep your ear to the ground. Something will eventually open up.

Should you do a fellowship? It's individual dependent. If a group hires a fellowship trained doc, they're gonna want you to practice in that area. Hate doing cardiac? Don't do a cardiac fellowship. Sure you will be in demand but you'll also be spending a significant amount of time in the heart room and dealing with the issues surrounding cardiac anesthesia. If a group doesn't have a need for your fellowship skills then your fellowship doesn't necessarily give you a leg up on the competition. Again, just the vibe I got from interviews and talking with groups.