job market for outpatient peds

[helm222]

How is the peds job market in otherwise saturated areas (coastal cities/suburbs? Does the field have the same kind of issues that rads, path, ophtho, etc have? I'm also considering peds/genetics, peds neuro and child psych... I hear psych and neuro may have an easier time but I've read some articles about pediatrician oversupply. Just curious since I may end up needing to return to the new york/long island area for family/personal reasons.

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[Rutgers06]

How is the peds job market in otherwise saturated areas (coastal cities/suburbs? Does the field have the same kind of issues that rads, path, ophtho, etc have? I'm also considering peds/genetics, peds neuro and child psych... I hear psych and neuro may have an easier time but I've read some articles about pediatrician oversupply. Just curious since I may end up needing to return to the new york/long island area for family/personal reasons.

The job market seems fairly good and I don't think is as bad as the fields you listed. Starting 2nd year, I started getting recruitment e-mails for jobs in smaller cities, but this year (3rd year) I'm getting them from practices in Boston, DC, etc. If you want to do community peds (and not general academic peds), you can find a job pretty much anywhere, but the salary might be a little lower in more desirable places. If you know where you want to end up, it can be beneficial to do residency in that area so that you can network and hear about jobs that become available through your residency program. There's definitely a need for child psych and peds neuro, but peds neuro tends to be more tied to academic centers, so it can just depend on where the openings are. If you want to have a general idea of jobs available, you can check out http://jobs.pedjobs.org/

 

[helm222]

What do you think about midlevel encroachment? Do you think that will be a problem going forward? I'm amazed at all the urgent care centers/doc in a box popping up in strip malls around here, mainly staffed by midlevels it seems.

 

[Stitch]

You mention several very different fields with completely different setups in terms of job availability and competition. If you want to work in a competitive or popular place as a general pediatrician (like the NYC area), then your pay will probably be a bit less and there will be more competition for jobs. Networking can often get you in the door, but keep in mind that you want a good, sustainable practice with good partners who will generally look out for you. Not all jobs are equal.

Child psych is a fellowship after a psychiatry residency, not a pediatric residency. There is a dearth of pediatric trained psychiatrists and you would probably find good job availability just about anywhere, both in private or academic practice. Child neurologists can do both private and academic work, and I'm not certain, but suspect availability is pretty good. Peds genetics will almost certainly tie you to an academic center (or some sort of research endeavor), but everyone definitely needs more of them.

Midlevels (which apparently is now becoming an offensive term to them) are becoming more and more prominent in every field. You need to learn to work with them because honestly they can be of great assistance to you. The urgent care prevalence is due to the fact that they are cheaper and there aren't many gen peds people who want to do that sort of work. There are fewer in subspecialty practice, but they are still there and tend to function as very good residents. In general practice many offices use NPs and PAs, and the best ones know what they don't know and will come to you for aid or anything that's outside the box.

All of this to say is that there will always be a need for general pediatricians, and I really don't believe that NPs will push you out of a job if you just want to see pediatric outpatients and care long term for kids. Where and how much money you make depends more on you.

 

[oracle2]

Do you see an increase in demand for peds genetics work? The field interests me, but the whole "genetics is the specialty of the future thing" seems like it hasn't played out yet.

 

[Socrates25]

My opinion in terms of job availability:

child psych >>> gen peds = peds neuro > peds genetics

Peds genetics is going to be limited only to big academic medical centers.

If you are looking to be an employee of someone else, then general peds is going to be limited in the big cities unless you work treating underserved kids in the ghetto.

That being said, if you open up your own practice the sky is the limit. I know a guy who went into a crowded general peds market with 5 clinics within 2 miles around him. Within 1 year he was kicking their ass and became the pediatrician of choice in the area. How did he do it? He had extended hours when the other clinics were closed.

I know the mantra on this forum is that small private practice is dead, but that's a total myth. The big hospital systems and ACOs that are buying up clinics are basically turning pediatricians into shiftwork 9-5 drones. A self motivated entrepreneur will kick a drone's any day of the week because you offer a higher level of service when your own skin is in the game.

Parents can tell the difference between a "clock in/clock out" pediatrician working for a giant organization and a solo pediatrician whose life and blood is built into the practice.

 

[helm222]

I love the prospect of being self employed, and from what I've seen child psych has virtually no overhead adn the easiest time of it. The prospect of a six year residency certainly does not excite me though

Interesting... I don't know why i thought peds neuro had a better market than gen peds. There are so few of them. I'm fine with suburban practice but I'd prefer to at least be near a large city. Leaning towards gen peds at the moment.

 

[hamstergang]

I love the prospect of being self employed, and from what I've seen child psych has virtually no overhead adn the easiest time of it. The prospect of a six year residency certainly does not excite me though

Well, while psych is a 4 year residency and child/adolescent psych is a 2 year fellowship, you can fast track it into 3+2=5 years. But still, then you'd be a psychiatrist and not a pediatrician.

 

[drkristy85]

My opinion in terms of job availability:

child psych >>> gen peds = peds neuro > peds genetics

Have to disagree with the above
More like:

child psych >>peds neuro>>>> gen peds
peds genetics-yes only in academic centers (in cities) but there are few geneticists out there, so the job market's great

Gen Peds is oversaturated, Especially in big cities and suburbs of big cities. It is a huge issue. Connections are important. I know a number of peds residents who are having a tough time getting into PP in certain cities. That being said, there are jobs if you have a way in.

Regarding gen peds salary, if you go to a rural area, you will make much more money. One of the graduating residents in my program got a job in a rural area and he will be making literally 2X more money than another resident who found a job in a suburban location. Starting salaries for Pediatricians in rural areas are often > $200 k straight out of residency. Not to mention much lower cost of living, so your money goes farther.

If you go into Child Psych or Peds Neuro, you will be in demand. There is a big shortage, which is great for these folks. We are talking sign-on bonuses, being wined and dined, good salaries. And you can pretty much find a job in any location you want. Manhatten, SoCal, etc.

 

[henge]

Links to surveys on the demand for some peds subspecialties.
www2.aap.org/workforce/PedSubspecialtyWkfcPolicyAd.ppt
http://www.childrenshospitals.net/A...ntentID=11189&template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm

Re: pediatric neurologists, Tab 28 of the AAP powerpoint cites a survey of institutions saying 33% are recruiting peds neuro, 100% are finding recruitment difficult, and at 75% of the institutions a recruited position was open for at least 6 months. Tab 29 cites a different survey which states that 62.8% of vacancies for ped neuro were open for 12+ months.The other link states that, among surveyed children's hospitals, peds neuro is one of the top 3 pediatric subspecialist shortages that most affect their ability to deliver care.

 

[helm222]

Have to disagree with the above
More like:

child psych >>peds neuro>>>> gen peds
peds genetics-yes only in academic centers (in cities) but there are few geneticists out there, so the job market's great

Gen Peds is oversaturated, Especially in big cities and suburbs of big cities. It is a huge issue. Connections are important. I know a number of peds residents who are having a tough time getting into PP in certain cities. That being said, there are jobs if you have a way in.
c.

This is disheartening, to say the least, re: gen peds. Anyone else care to chime in about the job market?

 

[fiestatrio99]

My experience with the gen peds job market in the Bay Area, and that of many of my friends and colleagues over the last few years, has been that it can be tight depending on what you are looking for. There are a lot of people from the local residency programs who are looking to stay in the area and others trying to come in from outside the area. Many people are looking for a job that is in San Francisco-Peninsula-Berkeley-Oakland-South Bay, as these are more desirable locations for those who have spouses who are employed in these areas or for people who want to be in/close to the city. What tended to happen is that if you were more restricted based on location, it was harder to find things, especially permanent opportunities. Some people took temporary jobs (maternity fill ins, extra wintertime help, etc) or contract jobs without benefits in order to stay in these locations and work and wait for something permanent to open up.

If you were able to broaden your search and look farther out - more exurban-type communities in the North and East Bay or the Central Valley - there were a lot more opportunities for permanent jobs with full benefits. And like anywhere else, having connections through your residency program or other people is the best way to find a job. The people I knew who were looking in the Los Angeles area seemed to report a similar trend there too. Hope that is helpful. Good luck to those looking.